Suppose, for a moment, that...

[oops_ur_dead]

... you were in Nazi Germany in 1933. You have a chance to steal Adolf Hitler's wallet. There is nothing in the wallet, except a small sum of money (less than $100) that Hitler was planning to spend that evening. If you steal his wallet, then you will not hinder his rise to power, or change any of his actions. The only result will be that his evening will be ruined. You also have a minimal chance of being caught. Are you morally in the right to steal Hitler's wallet?

[Goremancer]

I don't care whether i'm morally right or night. I"ll steal it. Then i'll see i could steal some more from his followers. And maybe some from random ppl on the street

[Ubernox]

If this is a serious question, then no; It's not morally right to steal Hitler's wallet.

[Kromos]

I would say it's not morally right to steal Hitler's wallet.

[Ash]

who cares if its morally right or immoral, i wouldnt do it. ITS HITLER, that nigger will gas jew

[philie]

You guys are such moralfags.

Assuming his future plans, I'd say that applying moral to an immoral being is doing it wrong. Thus, it's not immoral, even though stealing is. When it comes to immoral beings, I won't follow my code and have full right to make up a new one of my liking. Thus, it is morally right to steal Hitlers wallet if i want it to be. And I do.

[Goremancer]

So you are saying the means justifies the end. Thus making you right to steal his wallet.
I would also steal his wallet but not because i think it's right. I would steal it just because there is free cash.

[TheJackofSpades]

I would do nothing because any disruption of the space-time continuum is exceedingly dangerous. The mere tipping of a perfectly balanced scale could tear a hole in the balance of power, causing god knows how many countless catastrophes to occur that otherwise would not have done so.

Messing with time is not cool, guys.

[vornksr]

lol when did oops become plato?

(ps: why must morality be defined on every action?)

[oops_ur_dead]

I would do nothing because any disruption of the space-time continuum is exceedingly dangerous. The mere tipping of a perfectly balanced scale could tear a hole in the balance of power, causing god knows how many countless catastrophes to occur that otherwise would not have done so.

Messing with time is not cool, guys.

Assume that nothing happens other than Hitler's night being ruined.

[Dust]

I would do it. Make Hitler have a bad night. Perhaps it might make him resent the Mexican-Swedes. . . That means that People would stop saying "you Jew" and start say "you Mexican-Swede".

[TheJackofSpades]

Assume that nothing happens other than Hitler's night being ruined.

You say that, but a night being ruined can ripple out to cause things beyond our foresight or control. Imagine how many other lives are changed by Hitler's night being ruined, how many people are affected simply in the moment and then as a result of the events that occur due to this event occurring differently.

You can't simply write this off as "Oh well nothing will change" because one simple action changed WILL affect EVERYTHING

[CmG]

100 Reichsmark ftw! I would steal it! He would do the same to me!

PROOF

[Ganondorf]

Well, maybe stealing Hitler's wallet was what made him hate Jews in the first place. Maybe, a person dressed up as a Jew and stole Hitler's wallet, making him want to eradicate all Jews... Therefore, it wouldn't be right to steal his wallet (6 million Jews > Hitler's wallet)...

[FalseTruth]

Are you morally in the right to steal Hitler's wallet?

Is this a joke?

You of all people should know morality is a man-made creation that is essentially as full of bullshit as any form of organized religion.
Is there a God? -No
THEREFORE, THERE CANNOT BE ANY FUCKING FORM OF MORALITY. GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

Let me provide you with an example. Let's say you are a skinny person stranded on an island with a fat person. For whatever reason, you know that a boat will arrive in two days. Unfortunately, if you wait that long without eating anything, both of you will die.

Wouldn't it make sense to maximize the amount of people that survive to let the skinny person eat the fat person? Yeah, sure, you think killing is immoral, but this is common sense.

Another example: WAR
Hitler is killing a fuckton of jews in Europe but according to you killing is immoral. I guess we shouldn't kill Hitler, derp.

tl;dr Stupid question cause there's no such thing as morality. To answer your question: If I could actually get close enough to steal his wallet, I'd stab him in the fucking chest and THEN steal his wallet.

[Apocist]

Yes, yes. I believe in that as well Falsie, but I still believe in morals, god or not. Stealing his wallet is immoral 'to me' but I'd still do it for the hell of it

[vornksr]

False, just because you don't believe in a moral code instituted by a god doesn't mean you can't recognize morality as a socially-instituted set of guidelines that are necessary for people to live together.

[CmG]

Well without morality we would have definetly no overpopulation on the world for sure.

[FalseTruth]

False, just because you don't believe in a moral code instituted by a god doesn't mean you can't recognize morality as a socially-instituted set of guidelines that are necessary for people to live together.

That is exactly what I believe, thus why I think the question is stupid and irrelevant. Every society has different morals, no? In Saudi Arabia, it is considered immoral for women to show their faces in public. In Eastern Asia, it is considered immoral to pat a child on the head.

My point is that it is a man-made group of ideas that serve the sole purpose of strengthening tradition in the respective society. I do not believe it is Godsent or even stable over time.

And philie's notion that we evolved over time to gain morals to prevent each us from killing each other is downright stupid and ignorant. We still kill each other i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. This notion would also imply that we evolved as a species from the Dark Ages and the crusades when wars were occurring constantly around the globe.

If we can say morals are opinions on how the people should behave in a given society, I would agree that we have them. I just want to make the point that they are never constant and we most certainly did not 'Evolve' them.

[Ubernox]

You guys are such moralfags.

Assuming his future plans, I'd say that applying moral to an immoral being is doing it wrong. Thus, it's not immoral, even though stealing is. When it comes to immoral beings, I won't follow my code and have full right to make up a new one of my liking. Thus, it is morally right to steal Hitlers wallet if i want it to be. And I do.

That's a stupid thing to say, because you're saying that it's not immoral to do immoral things to immoral people, which really defeats the purpose of having moral guidelines in the first place. No one's doing it because it's easy.

An action such as murder or robbery is always, in itself, wrong, no matter what goal it is working towards. The ends never justifies the means.

[Ubernox]

@False I just can't agree with you bro. Being a Humanist, I can safely say that I can easily believe in morality without believing in any sort of higher power. Morality and a firm sense of right and wrong are, at the very least, concepts that keep society as a relatively peaceful and stable place, no happier how meaningless they may or may not be.

[wolfcheese]

Why are these kind of questions always about Hitler? It's as if everyone's moral exceptions get unleashed on him...but that's a waste of time. Whatever you do to Hitler, someone else will take his place. Maybe things would turn out somewhat differently with a different guy, but Germany would still be in the same shithole and its people would still be in a position to be persuaded. Not that I'm justifying what Hitler did, but it wasn't solely caused by his fucked up head.

Anyway, whether or not I stole the wallet would depend on how badly I needed the money I guess.

Also why does Hitler have US Dollars?

[Ubernox]

I'm calling Godwins's Law on this.

[oops_ur_dead]

Why are these kind of questions always about Hitler? It's as if everyone's moral exceptions get unleashed on him...but that's a waste of time. Whatever you do to Hitler, someone else will take his place. Maybe things would turn out somewhat differently with a different guy, but Germany would still be in the same shithole and its people would still be in a position to be persuaded. Not that I'm justifying what Hitler did, but it wasn't solely caused by his fucked up head.

Anyway, whether or not I stole the wallet would depend on how badly I needed the money I guess.

Also why does Hitler have US Dollars?

Never said he had US dollars. Just that the amount of money he had was worth less than $100 USD.

You don't badly need the money for anything. You certainly wouldn't put it to greater use than what Hitler would have done with it.

[wolfcheese]

I figured you were speaking in equivalent currencies, I was just being annoying.

I would probably just ignore it then. Let someone else take it if they want to, or let Hitler find it first.

[Goremancer]

Then Hitler would have had a HUGE wad of cash in his wallet. Considering this was after this giant inflation, you need a lot of Marks to get close to a hundred dollars

[Admiral]

Is this a joke?

You of all people should know morality is a man-made creation that is essentially as full of bullshit as any form of organized religion.
Is there a God? -No
THEREFORE, THERE CANNOT BE ANY FUCKING FORM OF MORALITY. GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

I'm just going to go beat some children now.

[Ash]

I'm just going to go beat some children now.

Eat some fetus too while your at it, it's nutritious.

[Nick]

Eat some fetus too while your at it, it's nutritious.

Make sure it's fresh from the womb. Lest it loses its nutrients!

P.S. Delete this if it is too offensive.

[Ash]

Make sure it's fresh from the womb. Lest it loses its nutrients!

P.S. Delete this if it is too offensive.

To be offensive you have to be immoral, therefore your not being offensive since morals don't exist.

[Nick]

False, just because you don't believe in a moral code instituted by a god doesn't mean you can't recognize morality as a socially-instituted set of guidelines that are necessary for people to live together.

Fully agree.

No to stealing for no particular reasons. Note that I did not say that stealing is bad.

My point is that it is a man-made group of ideas that serve the sole purpose of strengthening tradition in the respective society. I do not believe it is Godsent or even stable over time.

And philie's notion that we evolved over time to gain morals to prevent each us from killing each other is downright stupid and ignorant. We still kill each other i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. This notion would also imply that we evolved as a species from the Dark Ages and the crusades when wars were occurring constantly around the globe.

I agree with the first paragraph. Morality is a set of "law" that dictate how we should "act" as to maintain "order". Somewhat like a tradition I guess. Morality facilitates cooperation among those with similar morality.

As for the second paragraph, I feel that "order" do reduces unnecessary killings. At least in so called "civilized" society. The problem with Iraq, Afghanistan is basically a twisted form of morality. To declare war on both countries, morality is also being called upon. "Liberation" in Iraq. "Justice" in Afghanistan.

In the real world, morality is not being applied properly. We do not view everyone as an equal. Some are forced to received the short end of the morality stick. Eg. I refuse to let my female relatives drive because it will endanger them to other predatory males - Good (but that says a lot about the society you are living in). Females cannot think for themselves and they will end up doing !@#$ stuff if they drive - Bad (female viewed as being inferior).

In other cases, morality is just another way of doing things. Neither "good" nor "bad".

[Nick]

Similarly, would you steal from Jesus, Muhammad or Buddha? I doubt if they will have anything of worth. Lets say their clothes. Will you do it?

[Nick]

Let me provide you with an example. Let's say you are a skinny person stranded on an island with a fat person. For whatever reason, you know that a boat will arrive in two days. Unfortunately, if you wait that long without eating anything, both of you will die.

Wouldn't it make sense to maximize the amount of people that survive to let the skinny person eat the fat person? Yeah, sure, you think killing is immoral, but this is common sense.

Another example: WAR
Hitler is killing a fuckton of jews in Europe but according to you killing is immoral. I guess we shouldn't kill Hitler, derp.

Fat-skinny people. I say it's personal preference.
Offering yourself to be eaten because you won't survive anyway - Cooperative act.
Or refuse to eat any - Neutral.
Killing to stay alive - Selfish act.

Selfish act is not moral? Or is it moral is cooperation in disguise?

Hitler is a HERO. He used Jews as scapegoats to save the entire nation! Jews are hated anyway (maybe during their time?).

Victimizing others to save your (or your people) own skin. Cooperative if you consider the "Aryan" race. Selfish if you add in the Jews.

[Zane]

I would be Robin Z. Hood.

[Kromos]

Nazis lynched the anti hitler Attachment 349

[Nick]

John Rabe

[Dark.Revenant]

Do I think it's immoral to steal? Yes.

Do I think it's worth it to take Hitler's wallet? Yes.

I'd steal it because it's one of those opportunities you would regret for the rest of your life if you passed it up.

[Sumikoko]

I agree with False that moral is an institution conceived by humankind that's not inherently in our genes. Society has its "average" set of morals, but I differ in opinion in that it is the individual who makes the ultimate decision which set of morals to follow; this is not strictly dictated by society. Despite what anyone says, yes you have morals of some kind. I don't think anyone can have "less" morals. You just have "different" morals.

It's like being vegetarian, supporting abortion, and affirmative action and those other crap that the government has to deal with. Someone could perhaps make a thread about these problems as well? It'll be interesting to see how the forumers are split on these.

That being said, do I think stealing is moral? The initial reaction is, no, it is not. But in reality, I plan to become one of the upper tier classes who evade taxes and maximize my own salary at the expense of others. So it would be hypocritical of me to say no to that question. But I digress. The real question is, why stop at stealing his wallet when you're trying to ruin his evening? I would print porn or something on paper that feels and looks like money and replace that with the actual money so when he pulls it out, he'll be utterly humiliated, not just mad that he lost his wallet. Kufufufufu~

You say that, but a night being ruined can ripple out to cause things beyond our foresight or control. Imagine how many other lives are changed by Hitler's night being ruined, how many people are affected simply in the moment and then as a result of the events that occur due to this event occurring differently.

You can't simply write this off as "Oh well nothing will change" because one simple action changed WILL affect EVERYTHING

That reminds me of what my history teacher told me last year (how true it is, I don't know, I'll admit). Hitler, as a youth, wanted to be a PAINTER. He applied to some Austrian school for art or something like that and the board of admissions denied him. There were two Jews on that committee. Really makes you wonder about some things.

[CmG]

His work sucked thats why they didn't take him in and many people at that time hated the Jews because they had the majority of the money in the eyes of the common people. They were just an easy target for him to get supporters.

[philie]

His work sucked thats why they didn't take him in and many people at that time hated the Jews because they had the majority of the money in the eyes of the common people. They were just an easy target for him to get supporters.

or people those days were uneducated and didn't think for themselves.

And philie's notion that we evolved over time to gain morals to prevent each us from killing each other is downright stupid and ignorant.

what a cocksucker, no u!

I agree with False that moral is an institution conceived by humankind that's not inherently in our genes. Society has its "average" set of morals, but I differ in opinion in that it is the individual who makes the ultimate decision which set of morals to follow; this is not strictly dictated by society. Despite what anyone says, yes you have morals of some kind. I don't think anyone can have "less" morals. You just have "different" morals.

I's hard to argue with that because your avatar and writing style are so disarmingly cute.
But morality is genetic to an extent, at least the ability to develop morals is. I wouldn't know what would happen to a person who lived in isolation, but those who grow up around people tend to develop it with the exception of sociopaths. Sociopathy is heritable, the gene responding for it is isolated, check mate.
Other social animals, too, tend to get sociopaths among them, or even normal animals who do somebody wrong. I'm thinking wolves now but I'm sure there are plenty others. So, immoral animals get banished from the group, their chances of surviving diminish, they might not get to reproduce, evolution bro.

[CmG]

Its not a matter of education lol. Humans are just dumb and they always will be. Germany was crippled from ww1. They had nothing, thx to the Allies faggots. Europe got what they deserved.

[philie]

Its not a matter of education lol. Humans are just dumb and they always will be. Germany was crippled from ww1. They had nothing, thx to the Allies faggots. Europe got what they deserved.

So wrong on so many levels, are you a nazi CmG?

[CmG]

So wrong on so many levels, are you a nazi CmG?

meh nothing to gain here.

[Dust]

Its not a matter of education lol. Humans are just dumb and they always will be. Germany was crippled from ww1. They had nothing, thx to the Allies faggots. Europe got what they deserved.

Fine words of wisdom.

To everyone else, read up on the Treaty of Versailles. Read how the Germans were wrongly treated. Come back and tell us how that helped matters.

[Ash]

wat does all this "moral faggotry" like philie calls it have to do with hitler? WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS FAGGOTNESS HAVE TO DO WITH THE GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT EPIC MOTHERFUCKER HITLER?

[Luna]

Jack has a point guys. I played Command and Conquer Red Alert, if you shake Hitler's hand you bring him back to the future causing the Soviet Union to go to war with everyone. Einstein then gets captured, and Tanya has to go rescue him, it's a mess. Also the Soviets gas a town and a hot blonde Russian lieutenant shamelessly flirts with Stalin. Not cool.

[CmG]

Jack has a point guys. I played Command and Conquer Red Alert, if you shake Hitler's hand you bring him back to the future causing the Soviet Union to go to war with everyone. Einstein then gets captured, and Tanya has to go rescue him, it's a mess. Also the Soviets gas a town and a hot blonde Russian lieutenant shamelessly flirts with Stalin. Not cool.

I miss those games with the trashy b movie scenes so much! I say fuck off with all that high render intros! Gimme the B moviez!

[Luna]

I'm sorry but with that accent I would totally lez up for that woman

[CmG]

50 € per hour! or 10€ for cleaning up your flat xD

[Sumikoko]

I's hard to argue with that because your avatar and writing style are so disarmingly cute.
But morality is genetic to an extent, at least the ability to develop morals is. I wouldn't know what would happen to a person who lived in isolation, but those who grow up around people tend to develop it with the exception of sociopaths. Sociopathy is heritable, the gene responding for it is isolated, check mate.
Other social animals, too, tend to get sociopaths among them, or even normal animals who do somebody wrong. I'm thinking wolves now but I'm sure there are plenty others. So, immoral animals get banished from the group, their chances of surviving diminish, they might not get to reproduce, evolution bro.

I was not aware my writing style was cute, heh. :3 I actually try to project a mature kind of aura, but I guess I failed miserably there.
I remember watching a short show on morality, and how they've actually "discovered" the chemical component that stimulates humans to be "more" moral. Oxytoxin or something. As for genetics, well, I won't disagree with you there. Your unruly heretics' children usually inherit that tendency as well. But then, you brought up animals as an example. Male lions, I do believe, fight ferociously to control a pack, to where murder of its own kind is acceptable. There's also some type of animal (forgot which) that eats its own young. They are not "scolded" for lack of a better word, for behavior we would view as "immoral." So morality does vary somewhat.

After writing all that, I'm actually not sure what I'm arguing for anymore, since that seemed like I was supporting the society acceptable view when I refuted that earlier. I dunno. It sounded good in my head for a while there. Guess when it actually goes on paper (or screen, rather), it doesn't quite produce the same effect... Crap.

I call hax.