S-FM 196: QT 3.14

[Kovath]

MZ did indeed do well in setting up the town credit needed to cruise to victory. I think he was only voted 2-3 times the entire game, which is quite impressive.

As I said before, I personally think 'MVP' as an idea is bullshit and the equivalent of a participation medal. MVP used to be a bigger thing on this site that gave you points on the 'ladder' (look at the post-games for any game before September/ October of 2015; landfills of salt everywhere) and all it did was make post-game discussions unproductive and petty. I only used it as a poke

I've had shit thrown at me for not participating much when I joined 3-4 games at once too.



You'll fit right in, lol. Do you have Skype, by any chance?



Glad to hear you like experimental setups, heheh

Experimental setups are the spice of Forum Mafia :P That and CRAZY GAMBIT PLAYS

Yarr, I do have a Skype.

[Calix]

Experimental setups are the spice of Forum Mafia :P That and CRAZY GAMBIT PLAYS

Yarr, I do have a Skype.

Excellent.

There's a shit-posting Mafia Skype chat if you're interested

[Kovath]

Excellent.

There's a shit-posting Mafia Skype chat if you're interested

I'm less interested now that I know it's not a shit-post fest...

jk that sounds pretty cool

[BananaCucho]

QTs had a lot to do with that.

"It's not my fault I was lackluster and nonexistent! It's the QTs fault!!"

Hmm......

I knew it was him. Good job accusing everyone that you wernt scum MZ to the point no one wanted to vote you at all! =)

"I knew it was Kovath MattZed! Yet the only thing I said about him and Kovath were:

Kovath has slight pressure on him, MattZed has received 0 pressure on him. I don't like seeing people with no pressure, if everyone confirms them town without having TPR's it can really screw up town if he ends up being scum simply because he didn't get anyone suspecting him.

And

Because at this point, if MattZed is not town, town will lose because people are not willing to look at it in different perspectives.

And not to mention my useless responses to this exchange:

Why are you voting Kovath?

Yes

Why. Are you voting Kovath?

Why. Are you voting Helz?

But I totally knew it was Kovath MattZed guys!"

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I initially read mattzed as mafia day1, but he made several comments that seemed too towny to ever really go against him.

I think the biggest error I made, and maybe others? was approaching the game as a 5v2 and not essentially two neutrals working together.

The reason unknown was the best lynch on the day I got modkilled was because him flipping town would force a 1v1 between kovath and mattzed and we could reevaluate between those two rather than letting them do nothing for the rest of the game. As it played out I assume mattzed was able to just coast.

[BananaCucho]

I initially read mattzed as mafia day1, but he made several comments that seemed too towny to ever really go against him.

I think the biggest error I made, and maybe others? was approaching the game as a 5v2 and not essentially two neutrals working together.

The reason unknown was the best lynch on the day I got modkilled was because him flipping town would force a 1v1 between kovath and mattzed and we could reevaluate between those two rather than letting them do nothing for the rest of the game. As it played out I assume mattzed was able to just coast.

Yup. All MZ had to do was be more active than Kovath.

I suppose the ending factor here is your lack of activity in these chats.

[Unknown1234]

"It's not my fault I was lackluster and nonexistent! It's the QTs fault!!"



"I knew it was Kovath MattZed! Yet the only thing I said about him and Kovath were:



And



And not to mention my useless responses to this exchange:









But I totally knew it was Kovath MattZed guys!"

Stop mocking me. I never trusted MattZed, but as I said no one was willing to vote him so I gave up. The only one I read wrong was Kovath.

[Unknown1234]

I think people need to stop confirming people based off reads, the fact is no one considered voting MattZed except me, and when I voted him I immediately lost town credit.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I think people need to stop confirming people based off reads, the fact is no one considered voting MattZed except me, and when I voted him I immediately lost town credit.

You lose credit because within a two hour span you put me from top town, to "I should have known you were scum", with you saying you had me as town because you felt pressured into doing so, into having me as your town again. If you just stick with your reads and explain them people will give you credit regardless if they agree with them. The problem was you would not give reads when asked or explain any of your thoughts. I started to shift away from my mafia read on you, but you made it very difficult with your lack of communication and inconsistent reads.

[BananaCucho]

I don't know why anyone scum read unknown ever. He was very obviously the village idiot, but not scummy

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I don't know why anyone scum read unknown ever. He was very obviously the village idiot, but not scummy

Yeah I started to realize that mid day 2, but for some reason I thought I remembered someone telling me he was not a bad player, so I thought all of his posts in the previous game were his hydra. If I knew that he was actually just his current skill level I would not have mafia read him, that tunnel was bad preparation by me.

[Unknown1234]

You lose credit because within a two hour span you put me from top town, to "I should have known you were scum", with you saying you had me as town because you felt pressured into doing so, into having me as your town again. If you just stick with your reads and explain them people will give you credit regardless if they agree with them. The problem was you would not give reads when asked or explain any of your thoughts. I started to shift away from my mafia read on you, but you made it very difficult with your lack of communication and inconsistent reads.

Helz specifically told me not to tell Duck if I tink he is town because I was supposed to keep him pressured

[BananaCucho]

Helz specifically told me not to tell Duck if I tink he is town because I was supposed to keep him pressured

So pretty much you were Helz's puppet lmao

Helz always wanted you gone but kept you around as long as he could use you

[Unknown1234]

So pretty much you were Helz's puppet lmao

Helz always wanted you gone but kept you around as long as he could use you

After Duck died, he was the only one I actually town-read.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Helz specifically told me not to tell Duck if I tink he is town because I was supposed to keep him pressured

So you thought purposely giving misinformation that you would switch on would pressure me and benefit town?

That is almost as bad as helz claiming mafia allies to me and then me faking a mafia role card to him.

[BananaCucho]

After Duck died, he was the only one I actually town-read.

"Guys I knew MattZed was scum! Because I scum read 3/4 players left and he was one of them!"

[BananaCucho]

So you thought purposely giving misinformation that you would switch on would pressure me and benefit town?

That is almost as bad as helz claiming mafia allies to me and then me faking a mafia role card to him.

He was the village idiot he didn't know what he was doing

#SupportUnknown

[Unknown1234]

"Guys I knew MattZed was scum! Because I scum read 3/4 players left and he was one of them!"

That's pretty accurate. I would of said more if people listened to me.

[Unknown1234]

He was the village idiot he didn't know what he was doing

#SupportUnknown

Find something better to do then to shit talk me

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

That's pretty accurate. I would of said more if people listened to me.

This is why she is shit talking you. You keep information because you think nobody is listening? I told you multiple times that I listened to everything you said, but you needed to stop focusing on dumb things like "well its 99.9% this game and not 100% that im mafia". Give us your information, and if we don't listen to you it is OUR faults, not yours.

[Unknown1234]

This is why she is shit talking you. You keep information because you think nobody is listening? I told you multiple times that I listened to everything you said, but you needed to stop focusing on dumb things like "well its 99.9% this game and not 100% that im mafia". Give us your information, and if we don't listen to you it is OUR faults, not yours.

When I do talk, it's people like Kovath and Banana that tell me that my posts are shit, and I don't care at that point.

[Helz]

Why did you think me and Banana were partners? I didnt think that would have happened

I did not think you were partners. I saw you flailing votes all over the place with very inconsistent reasoning and could very easily see see your actions coming from a scum perspective on the lynch or loose day.

Helz specifically told me not to tell Duck if I tink he is town because I was supposed to keep him pressured

I did say this for the post gambit reaction read. That was not a 'permanently do this' kind of thing. You can not really use that as an excuse when like 12 hours later I posted that Duck was now my top town read. Just saying.

So pretty much you were Helz's puppet lmao

Helz always wanted you gone but kept you around as long as he could use you

See above response to Unknown

So you thought purposely giving misinformation that you would switch on would pressure me and benefit town?
That is almost as bad as helz claiming mafia allies to me and then me faking a mafia role card to him.

Honestly my gambit semi cleared you resulting in players much more strongly town reading you. I still consider what you did game throwing. If you had not done that it would have been a very different game. I strongly believe that your move there was directly playing against your win condition and hurt the town at a time when people were finally active and there was pressure floating around. Not saying town would have won if you had not done that but it would have been a different game. I could have seen the final 3 turning out to be Me, You and MZ at that point most likely with you making the final lynch call between me and MZ. You really need to think before you act bro. You started flipping out the same way at the end of D1. When you get upset just walk away and relax for a bit instead of doing something insane.

[Helz]

When I do talk, it's people like Kovath and Banana that tell me that my posts are shit, and I don't care at that point.

Its just something you need to work on as a player. Provide more reasoning with your reads and present them in a way that explains your thinking and people will listen to you more. I would argue that being able to persuade players to lynch your scum read is every bit as important if not more so than being able to identify scum. The objective of the game is not to identify scum but rather to eliminate them.
I consistently argue that when a player rants in the post game that they 100% knew some player was scum they played worse than someone who did not realize simply because if this were true they had the game solved and still failed to win. At least other players can plea ignorance. (This is not what unknown is doing, I am just pointing it out to argue the importance of being able to communicate your reads and push lynches)

I break down town play into:
Getting read in the way you want (As town or not scummy enough to be lynched/night killed)
Scumhunting to identify players alignments
Being able to push your reads to get the town coordinated enough to follow them when you think you have pegged a scum player

If a player fails at any one of these 3 things the other 2 become useless. I look poorly on players that argue they had a good game just because they identified scum when they failed in 1 or 2 equally if not more important parts.

[Unknown1234]

Okay, thanks. And I wasn't using that forever, Duck said that "I was back in forth from top town to scum then back to town"

I'm pretty sure I even explained to him what you had said.