S-FM 186: Firebringer's Improvised Game

[Hell Frog]

Straight up. I don't want to be a dick head but this is basic shit. Think before you act. If you are going to do something like kill a slot think about how it will help your win con regardless of its flip. Random lynches are only a good idea when the flip provides information on the train the following day. This lynch killed a powerful town role and gave us fucking nothing

[Empathy17]

Yeah, well look at the fact that funcall played scummy, didn't hardly post, and didn't come in here and even defend themselves or claim. If you have a problem with it, fight the lynch sooner and give your lecture sooner.

Also, explain why you called us the neutral with a communication role? You don't sign your hydras so I have no idea who is who.

~SW

[Hell Frog]

Yeah, well look at the fact that funcall played scummy, didn't hardly post, and didn't come in here and even defend themselves or claim. If you have a problem with it, fight the lynch sooner and give your lecture sooner.

Also, explain why you called us the neutral with a communication role? You don't sign your hydras so I have no idea who is who.

~SW

I did give that lecture sooner. But apparently was not mean enough for it to stick out. I even quoted the posts of me doing so in this very night chat.

I don't think my slot ever said you were a neutral with a communication role and I know for a fact I never said as much. I originally suggested it half way through D1 hinting at the fact that the host told me Neutrals knew their alignment prior to picking a role. The communication part of it came from my belief that a neutral would pick a communication role. It would allow them to confirm their role which is very useful for scum as well as allow them to create a block with the mafia insulating them from a night kill and locking in their win condition. Its the optimal neutral role. This is something I revealed right after the day was extended D1

[Empathy17]

So you are neutral and picked a communication role?

Here's where you said it to us?

~SW

[Hell Frog]

Kinda game unrelated but I legit believe that our community is top 10 of the mafia communities out there. We are able to work with complex setups and mechanics that are found nowhere else and have a ton of very skilled players. I just get mad when I see such blatant bad play and I know for a fucking fact there is so many skilled players in this game. Sure that lynch had scum in it but still. It was an awful play in every single sense of the word. We are better than that and there is no excuse for us pulling that kind of trash.

[Hell Frog]

Here's where you said it to us?

~SW

I said that to OrpZedWorlds

[Empathy17]

I said that to OrpZedWorlds

Originally Posted by Empathy17
OK but I never lied about my role. We are a miller.

~SW



So you are neutral and picked a communication role?

[Hell Frog]

Ok. I see it. Post #991

Quoted the wrong post. That was me on this hydra (Helz) but 100% meant to quote OrpzZedWorlds in that comment. As we have been saying you are semi-confirmed via mechanical analysis town. My bad.

[Empathy17]

Originally Posted by Empathy17
OK but I never lied about my role. We are a miller.

~SW



So you are neutral and picked a communication role?

I keep screwing up the quotes. The blue arrow will take you to the post. *facepalm*

~SW

[Hell Frog]

Well Frog said Confirmed with the exception of something. I say Semi-Confirmed. Same shit

[Empathy17]

Ok. I see it. Post #991

Quoted the wrong post. That was me on this hydra (Helz) but 100% meant to quote OrpzZedWorlds in that comment. As we have been saying you are semi-confirmed via mechanical analysis town. My bad.

No big deal. I get it now.

~SW

[OrpZedWorlds]

Straight up. I don't want to be a dick head but this is basic shit. Think before you act. If you are going to do something like kill a slot think about how it will help your win con regardless of its flip. Random lynches are only a good idea when the flip provides information on the train the following day. This lynch killed a powerful town role and gave us fucking nothing

It gave us a flip that, if nothing else, made Empathy's claim seem a LOT more credible.

Back to part of a previous post of yours:

And btw. Fuck you guys and I told you so on both the Orpz deal as well as the 'Its a total shit idea to push through a random lynch.' We got a whole 6 hour extension to put a train together and that time was not effectively used.

We have a full day of this chat and it would be nice if we used that time to get our shit together. Weak analysis and shitty votes with no reasoning is going to cripple us if we keep it up. It should be much easier for every slot to be able to provide reasoning given that theres so many damn heads behind most of them.

Yeah, no, you don't get to shit on the only train going if you don't have an alternative course of action in mind. In the final hours of day, all you did was prod people to do the real work.

You can say you didn't like the lynch, but that's worth shit unless you actually try to stop it. If you were actually town and had a better idea on what to do, you'd have been leading it. Call that lynch on Funcall what you want, you let the train build, and when the lynch almost didn't happen, you ensured it did.

-Matt

[SilverWolf]

It gave us a flip that, if nothing else, made Empathy's claim seem a LOT more credible.

Back to part of a previous post of yours:

Yeah, no, you don't get to shit on the only train going if you don't have an alternative course of action in mind. In the final hours of day, all you did was prod people to do the real work.

You can say you didn't like the lynch, but that's worth shit unless you actually try to stop it. If you were actually town and had a better idea on what to do, you'd have been leading it. Call that lynch on Funcall what you want, you let the train build, and when the lynch almost didn't happen, you ensured it did.

-Matt

I agree with this 100%. We can scumhunt off the train and helped our claim so we don't get mislynched. Plus, we still have a N1 flip to analyze. NL is almost always worse in any game I've ever played.

It's easy to say in hindsight, it sucked. But in reality, if you are the uninformed majority, you can easily be wrong. So shitting on it now, does nobody any good whatsoever.

~SW

[Empathy17]

I agree with this 100%. We can scumhunt off the train and helped our claim so we don't get mislynched. Plus, we still have a N1 flip to analyze. NL is almost always worse in any game I've ever played.

It's easy to say in hindsight, it sucked. But in reality, if you are the uninformed majority, you can easily be wrong. So shitting on it now, does nobody any good whatsoever.

~SW

LOL hydra slip.

[Hell Frog]

If Calette flips town, you ARE NOT cleared unless somehow their role says that you are.

Reasoning being? Because of course the scum will know who to call Town. A scum will know exactly who to call town and then "claim" that they knew from before.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Calette showed up dead and you used it as some pathetic excuse to clear yourself.

You are forgetting perspective. From my slots perspective Empathy, Calette, and Myself are all town. This is what Frog was saying. Believe me or don't but it does not matter. Your scum buddy will die soon enough. We have not quite figured out if you two are on the same team or if you were able to confirm yourself to etch other but I am sure we will. I am not going to dig into you hardcore until tomorrow. If you want to keep that from happening kill me but our last will will present the same case for us unless you really want me to open up in this night chat.

[Hell Frog]

It gave us a flip that, if nothing else, made Empathy's claim seem a LOT more credible.

Back to part of a previous post of yours:

Yeah, no, you don't get to shit on the only train going if you don't have an alternative course of action in mind. In the final hours of day, all you did was prod people to do the real work.

You can say you didn't like the lynch, but that's worth shit unless you actually try to stop it. If you were actually town and had a better idea on what to do, you'd have been leading it. Call that lynch on Funcall what you want, you let the train build, and when the lynch almost didn't happen, you ensured it did.

-Matt

Ok. This is straight up bullshit. I did not put in the work? Of the 3 real trains in that day I quarterbacked 2 of them. I dug through posts and I presented reasoning that players agreed with. It put both you and TDL to L1 (With TDL getting fake lynched which arguably saved him.) Even though I scum read TDL I still expressed anger at the fact he was lynched when he was. My reasoning at the time was nowhere near strong enough to justify a full lynch ESPECIALLY with 24 hours left in the day. Don't tell me I am taking a piss and making others do the leg work in this game. That is objectively fucked in 9 ways.

[Hell Frog]

We're here in the bedroom while the scum pretend they aren't scum in the living room.

By the by, I'm having some real booze (and hopefully some real ladies) tonight, and then I'll be out for most of the day tomorrow, so I'll just leave this here:
Tomorrow's lynch should be Calette.
Calette and Hell Frog will try to paint OrpZedWorlds as the best lynch target, due to the lies. OrpZedWorlds are the neutral. Don't allow them to manipulate you with that.

Optionally, if we have a Vig, Calette could use a bullet between their eyes.
If we have a roleblocker, go for Hell Frog.

We should be able to win either way, but having a useful flip tonight would certainly help.

Those are my suggestions. Do whatever the fuck you want as long as you're dancing and drinking.

---

I'll leave you in the hands of GameFreak and Paladin.
Have a good weekend.

I am starting to consider Tank as a 3rd scum..

[Firebringer]

Reminder Night Actions Need To Be In A Hour Before Deadline.

[Firebringer]

Day 2:

Spearheading Female Tank died last night. He died because Firebringer said so

He was....

Drunken Dragon

• During the night you can invite someone to drink with you. This will give you private night chat for one night.
• Your target will be seen as visiting you, instead of any action they might otherwise perform.
• You have the one time ability to throw a party. This allows for night chat for the game for that night. You can disallow up to 2 players from joining the party.
• You cannot throw a party and invite someone to drink with you on the same night.

He Left No Last Will

Player List:	Roles	GraveYard
1. Calette 2. TheDarkestLight 3. OrpZedWorlds 4. Spearheading Female Tank 5. Funcall 6. RLVG 7. Nicolas Cage 8. Hell Frog 9. Empathy17	Improvised Town Improvised Town Improvised Town Improvised Town Improvised Town Improvised Town Improvised Neutral Improvised Mafia Improvised Mafia	Funcall-DA Prosecutor Spearheading Female Tank-Drunk Dragon

With 7 Alive, 4 votes to hammer.

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DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

[Empathy17]

game is lock cleared. i understand everythign now

[Empathy17]

so with that idea in mind

-vote thedarkestlgiht

[Empathy17]

-vote thedarkestlight

ill get it right soon

[OrpZedWorlds]

so with that idea in mind

-vote thedarkestlgiht

Do you actually have a reason for your vote at LYLO, or are you just throwing it out there?

I've already explained how Hell Frog isn't playing to the capacity either of them are capable of as town. If they actually didn't want Funcall lynched, they'd have said more about it instead of letting the train build and then hammering it. They let one low hanging fruit go by, but they couldn't let themselves be so blatantly tied to it because they need to lead a mislynch today to win.

-vote Hell Frog

-Matt

[TheDarkestLight]

I was in an "Auditor" chat last night, and the person kept asking me who my teammate was.

So, either that's a town who is fishing super poorly, or a neutral.

And apparently it roleblocked me too but idk if it really did because I got no "roleblocked" feedback.

And Mister Frog, you say I miss perspective, but YOU have missed perspective. You keep going on about how the "game is over". It isn't from anyone elses, and the fact you keep stating that is making you scummier and scummier.

-vote Hell Frog

I made my case last night, and none of his arguments disproved any of mine.

[TheDarkestLight]

so with that idea in mind

-vote thedarkestlgiht

Cleared, tell me... how is it cleared?

Even if you follow Frog's form of thinking, that is only three of the four remaining town.

[Empathy17]

Do you actually have a reason for your vote at LYLO, or are you just throwing it out there?

I've already explained how Hell Frog isn't playing to the capacity either of them are capable of as town. If they actually didn't want Funcall lynched, they'd have said more about it instead of letting the train build and then hammering it. They let one low hanging fruit go by, but they couldn't let themselves be so blatantly tied to it because they need to lead a mislynch today to win.

-vote Hell Frog

-Matt

Yes we do, we have results that explains the results on why they keep calling callet town

[Empathy17]

Cleared, tell me... how is it cleared?

Even if you follow Frog's form of thinking, that is only three of the four remaining town.

yes, they are a wagon sensor. we checked them last night. they obviousl used it to clear callete

[OrpZedWorlds]

Yes we do, we have results that explains the results on why they keep calling callet town

So you're saying you have, somehow, special info that clears Calette and/or Hell Frog?

This is LYLO. If you have special info that clears town, there's no reason to half-reveal it.

[Empathy17]

OK, So our role has 3 parts: Miller is one, Role Cop is another-Hell Frog is a Wagon Sensor. They can pick a wagon with 3 or less people on it and find out if there are any scum on it. This explains exactly why they called Calette town.

TDL, Orpz, RVLG are most likely scum in this game.

Hell Frog and Calette are town, we are town, Nic Cage is most likely town.

Game is over.

gg town win

~SilverWolf

[MattZed]

OK, So our role has 3 parts: Miller is one, Role Cop is another-Hell Frog is a Wagon Sensor. They can pick a wagon with 3 or less people on it and find out if there are any scum on it.

How do you know that?

[OrpZedWorlds]

How do you know that?

Orpz, I didn't want you to be the only one.

-Matt

[Empathy17]

Orpz, I didn't want you to be the only one.

-Matt

how ele do you explain their gambit to say thay had a n0 peek on callete.

[Empathy17]

How do you know that?

We role copped them and they are a wagon sensor.

~SW

[Empathy17]

Hell Frog is more than welcome to come in here and confirm but that's the result we got on them. We picked them because we could potentially clear two slots this way. Hell Frog and Callette.

~SW

[OrpZedWorlds]

We role copped them and they are a wagon sensor.

~SW

So you got to see their rolecard?

-Matt

[Empathy17]

So you got to see their rolecard?

-Matt

Yes

[TheDarkestLight]

yes, they are a wagon sensor. we checked them last night. they obviousl used it to clear callete

Wagon Sensor. Yeah, great explanation that anyone can make, and also you gotta consider how the scum can easily have an invest.

[OrpZedWorlds]

Yes

Did you also see alignment, or are you inferring that from the role?

-Matt

[Empathy17]

Wagon Sensor. Yeah, great explanation that anyone can make, and also you gotta consider how the scum can easily have an invest.

That's o.k. We know the only choice you have is to cast doubt on us now.

~Sw

[Empathy17]

So you got to see their rolecard?

-Matt

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop



we are investigator in sc2 terms but with exact role and info

[Empathy17]

Did you also see alignment, or are you inferring that from the role?

-Matt

No, but it makes the most sense as a town role and the only other times I've seen it they've all been town roles.

~SW

[TheDarkestLight]

That's o.k. We know the only choice you have is to cast doubt on us now.

~Sw

Like I said earlier, even if that was the case and I was wrong about all three of you, there is still a fourth town that none of you have cleared.

[Calette]

This argument about pinning roles to alignments is irrelevant when the alignments were randomised to players.

[Empathy17]

Like I said earlier, even if that was the case and I was wrong about all three of you, there is still a fourth town that none of you have cleared.

You just scum claimed but claiming we have another town to clear but not saying it is you.

Game over

Let's lynch this scum people!!

~SW

[Calette]

Like I said earlier, even if that was the case and I was wrong about all three of you, there is still a fourth town that none of you have cleared.

Yes and how hard can that be? All we need is to pressure half the players that we would have otherwise needed to...in 48 hours.

Hardly a Herculean task.

[Empathy17]

This argument about pinning roles to alignments is irrelevant when the alignments were randomised to players.

and whats the scum motivaiton for claring you and stopping your lynch?

[Calette]

and whats the scum motivaiton for claring you and stopping your lynch?

I'm not saying there is any. I was referring to comments of "scum is likely to have investigative" and "town would likely have this". While I can see the temptation to talk about that, I think it will just make us biased as opposed to anything else.

[TheDarkestLight]

Yes and how hard can that be? All we need is to pressure half the players that we would have otherwise needed to...in 48 hours.

Hardly a Herculean task.

Simple, because from most other PoVs, you're scum.

I like how one of the people sharing opinions with me was killed. Trying to shift the numbers scum?

[Calette]

Simple, because from most other PoVs, you're scum.

I like how one of the people sharing opinions with me was killed. Trying to shift the numbers scum?

Calling everyone else scum doesn't absolve you.

[OrpZedWorlds]

This argument about pinning roles to alignments is irrelevant when the alignments were randomised to players.

Who else would have an alignment-checker though? Assuming for the moment that Empathy is telling the truth, I don't see any reason to suspect a wagon cop is scum, since scum already know all the info one would get. That would be a purely useless action to have. I doubt Fire gave anyone a day action that does NOTHING.

In other news, Calette is pretty much cleared to everyone: Either Empathy's telling the truth, in which case we know Frog probably has a clear, (assuming scum can't appear as town to invests) or Emapthy's lying in which case it's basically impossible to have Calette as a scum partner because it would falsify Hell Frog's results.

This recent development warrants an unvote for now.

-unvote

-Matt