S-FM 186: Firebringer's Improvised Game

[Hell Frog]

It wasn't even an hour ago that I started talking about you. Silver, do me a favor and just focus on the conversation I'm trying to have, not anything you've said with anyone else. Please. I've been very clear with you that I like millers calling it D1, and I think that's the appropriate town thing to do and a rather foolish scum gambit if you're scum. However, this is D1 and without roleflips we really don't have much to work with. You volunteered specific information about your role. There's no reason to not vet that information to get a solid read.

Silver, I am wondering: are you so against anything remotely "role fishing" because of meta you might follow from another site? Your hydra volunteered, without being prompted, that you are a miller and a TPR. You'll notice I haven't asked you to clarify how you're a TPR, and I'm not going to. But what bothers me is that when I ask you to clarify the part you revealed on your own, about being a miller, you get instantly suspicious. I haven't asked for any real new information about your role; scum doesn't benefit from knowing that you appear as "mafia" vs appearing, as, say "scum." I have been asking for you to be more specific about information you already revealed of your own volition. Why, exactly, do you not like me asking for this clarification?

-Matt

This is how you get ants!

You cant tell people to focus on you pushing on them while you ignore someone pushing on you. I will shut up about it now. Consider it a successful dodge but only after I was obnoxious enough about it to keep you from being able to pretend you couldn't read or some shit.

[Hell Frog]

I don't know what my other heads were doing; you'll note that, in MY first post, I indicated we had a negative utility.

Since we're the top train right now and daylight is burning, I'll discuss why I believe they said that; another part of our role says that we will specifically, when night starts, be revealed as not immune at night. (I think you can guess what this is a perversion of.) I imagine they were trying to WIFOM us as possible veteran so that we don't eat the first nightkill.


Frog/Helz, frankly this is my first time getting to the thread and I haven't even read through it all yet. I've been here an hour, and I've only had enough time to do the most productive thing I saw on my plate.

If you could highlight specific points that you would like me to address, I'm more than happy to.

-Matt

Sure, Will do. But I have literally seen your name pop for quite a while before this. You were on your real account. Not your hydra.

[Empathy17]

It wasn't even an hour ago that I started talking about you. Silver, do me a favor and just focus on the conversation I'm trying to have, not anything you've said with anyone else. Please. I've been very clear with you that I like millers calling it D1, and I think that's the appropriate town thing to do and a rather foolish scum gambit if you're scum. However, this is D1 and without roleflips we really don't have much to work with. You volunteered specific information about your role. There's no reason to not vet that information to get a solid read.

Silver, I am wondering: are you so against anything remotely "role fishing" because of meta you might follow from another site? Your hydra volunteered, without being prompted, that you are a miller and a TPR. You'll notice I haven't asked you to clarify how you're a TPR, and I'm not going to. But what bothers me is that when I ask you to clarify the part you revealed on your own, about being a miller, you get instantly suspicious. I haven't asked for any real new information about your role; scum doesn't benefit from knowing that you appear as "mafia" vs appearing, as, say "scum." I have been asking for you to be more specific about information you already revealed of your own volition. Why, exactly, do you not like me asking for this clarification?

-Matt

Do you have a new question for me in here somewhere because I don't see it? I already explained why we claimed the miller part of our role and described exactly what the wording was for what our result is if we are investigated and who gets it and that we have a 3 part role. I'm not sure what else you want? No, I don't want to give out any other info. for what should be obvious reasons.

~SilverWolf

[Hell Frog]

Post #555 is where I did my initial read on you. Post #571 is where I posted about seeing your account online. You were on for no less than 25 mins that I saw btw.

[OrpZedWorlds]

Sure, Will do. But I have literally seen your name pop for quite a while before this. You were on your real account. Not your hydra.

I tried to read through the thread throughout the day but didn't get far, perhaps the first 2-3 pages on the 50-posts-per-page setting.

I have about 30-60 minutes to directly deal with anything. The rest will have to be left to my other heads, who I believe were attempting a "village idiot" routine to avoid the likely N1 kill I mentioned a few posts ago.

-Matt

[OrpZedWorlds]

Do you have a new question for me in here somewhere because I don't see it? I already explained why we claimed the miller part of our role and described exactly what the wording was for what our result is if we are investigated and who gets it and that we have a 3 part role. I'm not sure what else you want? No, I don't want to give out any other info. for what should be obvious reasons.

~SilverWolf

The question I was asking in the post you're quoting is why you jumped so hard at me for "rolefishing" when I asked for clarification of information you already revealed. I was asking if you're simply from some place with such a strict meta against anything remotely "rolefishing," or if there's some other reason for your immediate suspicion.

-Matt

btw Helz/Frog: I flagged deathworlds via skype to show up; I'll answer what I can, but I'm hoping he can explain anything you've noted.

[Hell Frog]

Ehh. Im drunk and its bed time. Just take your time and keep pretending you had no idea there was a train on you or something. Or respond. I'm past giving a shit tonight : )

[Empathy17]

The question I was asking in the post you're quoting is why you jumped so hard at me for "rolefishing" when I asked for clarification of information you already revealed. I was asking if you're simply from some place with such a strict meta against anything remotely "rolefishing," or if there's some other reason for your immediate suspicion.

-Matt

btw Helz/Frog: I flagged deathworlds via skype to show up; I'll answer what I can, but I'm hoping he can explain anything you've noted.

I come from mafiascum. No I don't like rolefishing or unecessary role claiming. ika seems to like that though. I already explained why we had to claim part of our role. Anything else because I'm going to bed soon.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

helz can you help us lynch funcall? neutral hunting is like scumtell 101

I am a literal god at neutral hunting, I will fucking wipe you off the face of the planet.

#117 Fluff
#119 Don't go to my house tonight (Potentially softclaiming vet in an effort to avoid investigative roles)
#122 Troll
#124 Votes Empathy with no reasoning (Stacking votes on the biggest train)
#145 Troll
#149 Fluff
#152 Believes Empathys Claim?
#155 Troll
#156 Troll
#159 Tells empathy he is willing to lynch them in spite of believing their claim
#167 Says he did not say his vote was a vote to lynch (His last post was literally him saying he would lynch Empathy)
#169 Backtracks saying it was a pressure vote before and insinuating its now a lynch vote
#177 and #178 Defensive justification
#181 Total 'Weak Analogy' Fallacy here.
#188 Slight backtracking
#193 Avoiding the conversation
#245 New player on the hydra checking in
#246 Supports lynching Empathy after reading the first post of the game.
#247 Says post 246 is dead serous (At this point I assume there was some coordination in the hydra chat?)
#257 Calls out Calette for buddying
#258 Corrects himself that he was calling out TDL and Empathy buddying
#260 Suggests he will join my train on TDL if it doesnt look like Empathy will be lynched
#262 Calls Empathy useless
#263 Agrees with my reasoning that Empathy is deflecting responses to non game personal shit implying he saw it as a scum tell
#264 Fluff
#511 Fluff
#530 Says Me vs TDL is Scum vs Neutral
#532 Says I am his top Neutral read and TDL and Empathy are his top scum reads
#535 Says again that he is dead serous
#549 Pokes Nicolas Cage

Just.. Holy shit..

Softclaims to avoid being checked at night and goes lynch happy right off the bat jumping on the most likely lynch target then backtracks when pressured about his vote. States he is willing to lynch TDL if he cant get Empathy lynched and generally avoids confrontation trying to stay out of the spotlight. The second I started pushing real reasoning all of a sudden he wanted to be my buddy and after people expressed they could see my slot being neutral he flipped his opinion?

-vote OrpZedWorlds

Fuck this obvious scum. He has not expressed a single original thought or done anything to suggest he cares at all about who is scum. Read through this guys posts.. He is mirroring any town opinion while trying to get anyone he can lynched with no reasoning.

Everything before #245 has been an intentional "village idiot" play done by Orpz to keep us away from the N1 kill, for good reason too.

I may like Frog as a player, but why would I want to be your buddy? I have two more heads to keep my company during this rollercoaster of a game, seriously this game is going to take a lot of brain power to decipher, please show where I wanted to buddy with you. By the way, agreeing with one opinion from one person, does not make them buddies. It makes them have a similar thought process.

To be completely fair the Orpz head kept the vote on Empathy out of spite, I found this out AFTER I said I agreed with the empathy lynch that my head was going for.
I didn't read, that was my bad. WHOOPSIEDAISY.

I'm fucking tired of the constant tunnels. I'm done answering questions about our role. I don't care if you think we are scummy.

~SilverWolf

Are you actually fucking with me right now? This post is the literal definition of scum giving up, I don't know why scum would give up at L-4 however, must be a mafiascum thing.

Our role has a miller mechanic that is not consistent with the miller mechanic that Empathy has. I doubt Firebringer is hardcore enough to mix up his own editing styles to intentionally screw with the players, so I've come to the conclusion that Empathy is lying about her miller mechanic. It makes sense for Mafia to fakeclaim miller, it insures that Town won't investigate them. And yes, I agree with the neutral on the fact the empathy is also being pretty dodgy about answering questions, big whoop, wanna fight about it?

~Deathworlds, the skullfucky one

[Empathy17]

~Deathworlds, the skullfucky one

lol, your clearly dont knwo firebringer then, ad its lagughable that you are pushign shuch shit angel. like ask yourself as a mod, wouldnt you intentoionly change wordings to preven mod guessing?

[Empathy17]

OMG-If I was scum giving up, I'd not say a damn thing. You clearly don't know me or how I play.

I'm fine with a 1v1 between us and Orpz hydra. If we get lynched, and flip exactly what we said, perhaps people will stop trying to outguess the mod cuz that never, ever works.

~SilverWolf

[Empathy17]

your own hydra partner even said its suboptimal for scum to do it so why do you think i would do such a thing? it would be easier to not say anything

i mean you guys didnt clim your shit till about now

[OrpZedWorlds]

lol, your clearly dont knwo firebringer then, ad its lagughable that you are pushign shuch shit angel. like ask yourself as a mod, wouldnt you intentoionly change wordings to preven mod guessing?

OMG-If I was scum giving up, I'd not say a damn thing. You clearly don't know me or how I play.

I'm fine with a 1v1 between us and Orpz hydra. If we get lynched, and flip exactly what we said, perhaps people will stop trying to outguess the mod cuz that never, ever works.

~SilverWolf

Why is your whole argument around the fact that I'm mod, when I'm not even a mod?

~Deathworlds

[Empathy17]

Also, you should get in better sync with your hydra partners who AGREE with us that claiming our role was a Pro-town thing to do.

FFS-The hydra dissonance is laughable at this point. And scummy. It's actually a classic scumtell.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

your own hydra partner even said its suboptimal for scum to do it so why do you think i would do such a thing? it would be easier to not say anything

i mean you guys didnt clim your shit till about now

I disagreed with that hydra partner.

Just because we are partners doesn't mean that we agree on anything.

~Deathworlds

[OrpZedWorlds]

Also, you should get in better sync with your hydra partners who AGREE with us that claiming our role was a Pro-town thing to do.

FFS-The hydra dissonance is laughable at this point. And scummy. It's actually a classic scumtell.

~SilverWolf

Please explain to me how a slightly disjointed hydra is a "classic scumtell".

~deathworlds

[Empathy17]

Why is your whole argument around the fact that I'm mod, when I'm not even a mod?

~Deathworlds

What? Where did we say that? Read it again. You are playing outguess the mod. Trying to figure out what the mod would and would not do. It doesn't work in any game-like ever.

~SilverWolf

[Empathy17]

Why is your whole argument around the fact that I'm mod, when I'm not even a mod?

~Deathworlds

you have hosted plenty of games, if youw ere to design a hidden stup game that had similar stuff wouldn you try to make it difrrent to prevent modgamming

[OrpZedWorlds]

What? Where did we say that? Read it again. You are playing outguess the mod. Trying to figure out what the mod would and would not do. It doesn't work in any game-like ever.

~SilverWolf

Ah, I thought you were talking about the moderators on my hydra team. Here on sc2mafia, we say Host.

[Empathy17]

Please explain to me how a slightly disjointed hydra is a "classic scumtell".

~deathworlds

I've seen it just recently in a game. One head was all nice to us and got us to townread them while the other head got into a deathtunnel with us and vote parked us. Guess what? They were scum. It's listed as a scumtell on MS. Not that it doesn't happen to town. But that it is more likely to be scum.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

you have hosted plenty of games, if youw ere to design a hidden stup game that had similar stuff wouldn you try to make it difrrent to prevent modgamming

I like consistency, quite a bit.

~deathworlds

[Hell Frog]

Cute. Just a few points

1- I am kinda shit faced right now so you could get away with 9 kinds of hell and I would be blunt and honest

2- If you are a god at neutral hunting and consider Empathy or myself to be neutral where is the reasoning? I would expect to see some kind of 'This is a neutral scum tell right here' kind of post. Like... Something... Anything... Searously

3- You guys keep blaming etch other for pushing on Empathy. Im pretty damn sure it was Orpz earlier who said that himself and another head town read Empathy while a 3rd did not. This was conflicting to the earlier statement that 2 heads scum read the slot and a 3rd did not which was also conflicting with 2 separate heads logging in and scum reading empathy. Just why is it so hard to get your story straight about something so simple? Its not even really a scum tell to scum read a slot but you guys keep fucking up your story about it. It kinda reminds me of a 3 stooges cartoon or some shit

4- Once again you guys keep ranting about people being neutral. I notice a very significant detail- that you never take it into consideration that they could be mafia. Its almost like you know they are not mafia so you are just hunting for neutrals. Nice slip

5- Big Booty Mafia Bitches 2016 FTW~

[Empathy17]

Ah, I thought you were talking about the moderators on my hydra team. Here on sc2mafia, we say Host.

Ah, OK. I'll use that here from now on to avoid future confusion.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

I've seen it just recently in a game. One head was all nice to us and got us to townread them while the other head got into a deathtunnel with us and vote parked us. Guess what? They were scum. It's listed as a scumtell on MS. Not that it doesn't happen to town. But that it is more likely to be scum.

~SilverWolf

Based off of ONE game you automatically assume that we are scum?

Your sample size is way too small, a common logical faculty when trying to present data.

~deathworlds

[Empathy17]

im not going to be surpirsed if they flip jester

[Empathy17]

Based off of ONE game you automatically assume that we are scum?

Your sample size is way too small, a common logical faculty when trying to present data.

~deathworlds

did she say ONE game? no she said a recent game, there have been a good chunk of games where this has happened, hell me and silver have done it as scum in a hydra outrselfs no less. nice discreit eat rope

[Empathy17]

Based off of ONE game you automatically assume that we are scum?

Your sample size is way too small, a common logical faculty when trying to present data.

~deathworlds

No, that game was an example. Scum have trouble keeping their stories straight in hydras or they purposely conflict in order to cause confusion. It happens more often than it does to town.

~SilverWolf

pedit: If you REALLY think we are Jester, trying to lynch us would be giving us the win then. You do know that right?

[Hell Frog]

im not going to be surpirsed if they flip jester

I am actually starting to lean that way. Shit is just hitting that point where I can not believe any scum could slip this much..

[Empathy17]

No, that game was an example. Scum have trouble keeping their stories straight in hydras or they purposely conflict in order to cause confusion. It happens more often than it does to town.

~SilverWolf

pedit: If you REALLY think we are Jester, trying to lynch us would be giving us the win then. You do know that right?

silver, are you talkignt o me again?

[Empathy17]

-vote [CENTER][COLOR=#F23E00][COLOR=#922B21][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/28039-OrpZedWorlds"]OrpZedWorlds[/URL][/COLOR][/COLOR][/CENTER]

[Empathy17]

omg that got butchered

-vote orpzedworlds

[OrpZedWorlds]

Cute. Just a few points

1- I am kinda shit faced right now so you could get away with 9 kinds of hell and I would be blunt and honest

2- If you are a god at neutral hunting and consider Empathy or myself to be neutral where is the reasoning? I would expect to see some kind of 'This is a neutral scum tell right here' kind of post. Like... Something... Anything... Searously

3- You guys keep blaming etch other for pushing on Empathy. Im pretty damn sure it was Orpz earlier who said that himself and another head town read Empathy while a 3rd did not. This was conflicting to the earlier statement that 2 heads scum read the slot and a 3rd did not which was also conflicting with 2 separate heads logging in and scum reading empathy. Just why is it so hard to get your story straight about something so simple? Its not even really a scum tell to scum read a slot but you guys keep fucking up your story about it. It kinda reminds me of a 3 stooges cartoon or some shit

4- Once again you guys keep ranting about people being neutral. I notice a very significant detail- that you never take it into consideration that they could be mafia. Its almost like you know they are not mafia so you are just hunting for neutrals. Nice slip

5- Big Booty Mafia Bitches 2016 FTW~

Literally the first post of the game makes me assume that Empathy is mafia.

I get a very prominent neutral vibe from you, this neutraldar_tm has pointed me in the right direction of neutrals in previous games. I will follow it until it proves me wrong, please prove me wrong when you get night killed by hopefully the town vig (if it exists)

I have a strong feeling that empathy and TDL are the mafia team, please explain to me why I should assume other people are scum when there are only 2 mafia and 1 neutral.

[Empathy17]

silver, are you talkignt o me again?

Oops, I'm really tired. LOL

[OrpZedWorlds]

No, that game was an example. Scum have trouble keeping their stories straight in hydras or they purposely conflict in order to cause confusion. It happens more often than it does to town.

~SilverWolf

pedit: If you REALLY think we are Jester, trying to lynch us would be giving us the win then. You do know that right?

I don't think your jester, I think you're team scum. WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT YOU WERE NEUTRAL?

~deathworlds

[Empathy17]

I don't think your jester, I think you're team scum. WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT YOU WERE NEUTRAL?

~deathworlds

shes talkign to me.

[Empathy17]

I don't think your jester, I think you're team scum. WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT YOU WERE NEUTRAL?

~deathworlds

CAPS LOCK PARTY

I'm tired. ika said that, not you. Ignore it.

[OrpZedWorlds]

did she say ONE game? no she said a recent game, there have been a good chunk of games where this has happened, hell me and silver have done it as scum in a hydra outrselfs no less. nice discreit eat rope

Have you ever considered the fact that my hydra is quite possibly the strangest one?

All 3 of our heads have completely different playstyles, and I believe that they are conflicting with one another.

Either way I can assure you that my hydra is town, while Empathy is most definitely scum.

[Empathy17]

CAPS LOCK PARTY

I'm tired. ika said that, not you. Ignore it.

Have you ever considered the fact that my hydra is quite possibly the strangest one?

All 3 of our heads have completely different playstyles, and I believe that they are conflicting with one another.

Either way I can assure you that my hydra is town, while Empathy is most definitely scum.

wanna bet on that?

[OrpZedWorlds]

CAPS LOCK PARTY

I'm tired. ika said that, not you. Ignore it.

Why does Ika assume that you two are jester?

[Empathy17]

Have you ever considered the fact that my hydra is quite possibly the strangest one?

All 3 of our heads have completely different playstyles, and I believe that they are conflicting with one another.

Either way I can assure you that my hydra is town, while Empathy is most definitely scum.

Yeah, telling us we are scum when I know damn well we are town isn't gonna get you anywhere. I'm fine with an 1v1 against you though.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

wanna bet on that?

I don't take bets with scum.

~deathworlds

[Hell Frog]

I never said that you should. I did say that if you believe they are scum you should point out reasoning. And I also said that I have only seen you neutral hunting all over the place. Its almost like it doesn't matter what point I make you will just try to run a Red Herring bit and distract from the point. This is like 100 posts later or some shit and you STILL have not addressed my original push on you. That is just fucking insane with all the heads on your account popping in and out.

Flail all you want but I have no problem riding this train to hell. I will take that risk that you could be a jester. There is just no fucking way you could be town at this point

[Empathy17]

diffrent playstyles or not, it does not jsutify your dirensonace, if you have that much problem you need to sort it out and then come back

[Hell Frog]

Btw- Still Helz : )

[Empathy17]

Why does Ika assume that you two are jester?

He didn't say that. Dear Lord.

~SilverWolf

[Empathy17]

I don't take bets with scum.

~deathworlds

so you admit to notbeing 100% sure we are scum. if your so confident you would be happy to take the bet. so your obviouly not convinced

[Empathy17]

you heard it here first, deathworld is not convinced we are scum. he has doubt and is building a way to backtrack, lynch now plox

[OrpZedWorlds]

I never said that you should. I did say that if you believe they are scum you should point out reasoning. And I also said that I have only seen you neutral hunting all over the place. Its almost like it doesn't matter what point I make you will just try to run a Red Herring bit and distract from the point. This is like 100 posts later or some shit and you STILL have not addressed my original push on you. That is just fucking insane with all the heads on your account popping in and out.

Flail all you want but I have no problem riding this train to hell. I will take that risk that you could be a jester. There is just no fucking way you could be town at this point

I'm assuming the head I'm talking to is Helz correct?

~deathworlds

[Empathy17]

any town who is so convinced would be more then happy to take a bet on our flip

[OrpZedWorlds]

so you admit to notbeing 100% sure we are scum. if your so confident you would be happy to take the bet. so your obviouly not convinced

Are you actually drunk?