S-FM 185 Some Random Scenario

[Mikecall]

Oh, so you were only trying to make sure that RLVG didn't mistype the entirety of the Jester's wincon.
My bad. I don't know how I could be so wrong.

Do I hear sarcasm, or do I hear you conviently trying to discredit me for my type of play, oh what will go wrong.

Please say more, its what I love hearing.

[Sen]

Yes, because clearly the Mafia is incapable of scum hunting. You realize they have nothing to worry about since they have no partners?

There's scumhunting, and then there are fluffs. Mafia can fluff their way to the endgame and like Secondpassing's vote count displays, most people won't really care about it.

I went at her because she made scummy moves, not personal reasons, and I already made a case, so you should probably reread it a few times since it apparently went over your head.

I'll do that and try to read between all of the insults and misreps to see if there's anything of actual value there.

"Oh, but the Mafia won't want to anger anyone"

Oh yeah, I guess the best strategy as Mafia is to -not- do what a townsperson would do and stick out like a sore thumb.

Why not? With people such as Secondpassing saying that Mikecall is town because he always looks like scum, that wuld be a perfect strategy on this site.

And don't you think the Mafia would want to Jester hunt? I mean, they only need to make sure that they don't get lynched, just like us.

*shrugs* The only alignment indicator I give such heavy weight as a generality is scumhunting. Other than that, I tend to focus on particulars and not in what one alignment or the other is supposed to do.

[Sen]

Mikecall is not scum this game, and I have already stated my reason as to why. He isn't acting as scummy as usual this game, and aside from that one odd comment, hes been doing good analysis. Even you don't think he is scum this game.

So a player who you say is always scummy suddenly tries not to be so scummy and you think that's ok, even when your whoel argument is based on nothing but meta?

Whatever. I've said my part, and it's there for everybody to see.
Gonna focus on TDL/Calix now.

[secondpassing]

I don't mean you RVS vote. In your textwall, you concluded that "I'm sure TDL is scum", when you hadn't even read his posts (you confirmed as much when replying to Calix). Then after a while, you finally got to find some quotes and say he's scum because of that.


OMG, Sen is pushing the who he's pegged as the single Mafia in this setup! The outrage!
And of course you don't remember, since you pull reads out of your ass. I've been saying that Calix is town ad nauseam, and by stating that you are the Mafia and Mikecall the Jester, then everybody else is town by POE.

Is PoE the only way you're going to find town?

No, your idea of me not reading his posts is wrong. I simply said I needed to look more in depth of his posts, which means I've already read his posts at least once. Why did I do that? I analyzed my own wall and noticed there was nothing of TheDarkestLight's on it. TDL is still scum, doesn't matter how you try to make of it.

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."

The fact that no one is even considering a lynch on Calix is pathetic, you just brush it aside like nothing.

Show me one reason how she's town or a jester, without bringing up meta, because I know there are none, whereas there are plenty of reasons as to why she is scum.

Calix is continuing to maintain a open outlook toward all players instead of tunneling a few to find faults with them.
She literally talked to every player in this game and came out all the better for it. Just realized I said exactly what Sen said.

[secondpassing]

@Funce Since I'm taking a break from typing, you still have to answer about reading and leaving. I need your opinions on every single player in the game as updated.
Also please answer the question on how you feel about the state of the game if nothing else.

[Mikecall]

Also second, for the question I saw earlier, I thought my posts would of shown my inexperienced nature, which of course is quite inexperienced, aint even going to deny that, but I will state it in post game.

[TheDarkestLight]

There's scumhunting, and then there are fluffs. Mafia can fluff their way to the endgame and like Secondpassing's vote count displays, most people won't really care about it.


I'll do that and try to read between all of the insults and misreps to see if there's anything of actual value there.


Why not? With people such as Secondpassing saying that Mikecall is town because he always looks like scum, that wuld be a perfect strategy on this site.



*shrugs* The only alignment indicator I give such heavy weight as a generality is scumhunting. Other than that, I tend to focus on particulars and not in what one alignment or the other is supposed to do.

I have SP in my Jester list.

Alright, read.

You are voting SP, which suggests you think SP is Mafia... and you're taking the read on Mikecall to heart?

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.

Scumhunting is weak, especially day one. That is why I don't see scumhunting as a tell for alignment, and why I don't think you should either. I mean, you said it yourself that scumhunting is very weak day one, so why bank alignments on it when, since it's so weak, it's easily faked?

[Sen]

#89: Calix calls your #88 a fluff. Starts her misrep.

#90: You vote her because she's misreping you, and you state that such things aren't pro-town. Note that you didn't call her scum, just "not pro-town".

And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...

That along with your "Everybody townreads me" of your previous post shoul a lot of self-awareness and an intention to project a townie image to others.

#91: The pissing contest starts.

#92 - #95: "I'll reply to your misrep with a misrep!" Nothing of worth there.

#96: You say she's Mafia, or maybe not.

#97: Calix calls you scum.

All the way to #111: More pissing contest.

Conclusion: The whole argument was a "hurr, you're discrediting me!" followed by half a page of utter stupidity. I don't think any of you have presented a solid case on the other, and are just dragging you e-penis/tits measuring contest and hurting the Town in the process.

[secondpassing]

Also second, for the question I saw earlier, I thought my posts would of shown my inexperienced nature, which of course is quite inexperienced, aint even going to deny that, but I will state it in post game.

Thanks Mikecall.

@Everyone else I guess we'll discuss later. Maybe in four hours if you're on.

[Sen]

You are voting SP, which suggests you think SP is Mafia... and you're taking the read on Mikecall to heart?

Yes. I haven't seen any reason to not think that any of those reads are wrong.

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.

While true, that's boring as fuck. I stated early during the day that we could break this setup in a minute if so was our intention, but that I didn't want to turn a game of Mafia into nothing but setup and strategy analysis. That bores me.

Scumhunting is weak, especially day one. That is why I don't see scumhunting as a tell for alignment, and why I don't think you should either. I mean, you said it yourself that scumhunting is very weak day one, so why bank alignments on it when, since it's so weak, it's easily faked?

I agree that day 1 reads tend to be the topkek, yet this is a micro setup with a single Mafia. It's not such an impossible task.
And even if I trust my d2+ reads way more than any previous ones, I'm god enough to nail the scum this early. Hell, on FM XIX I nailed my first scum on page one in a 40~ players setup. I'm pretty sure I can find 2 scum in a 6 players one.

[Sen]

Yes. I haven't seen any reason to think that any of those reads are wrong.

Fixed.

[Sen]

That should've said "I'm good enough".
lol@ "I'm god enough". Nah, I'm not THAT good.

[Sen]

The link to the day end time is broken /says it ended over a day ago)
I think the game ends in some 16 hours from now. I don't know if I'll be home and/or awake by then.

[TheDarkestLight]

Shame you don't see what I see.

Yes. I haven't seen any reason to not think that any of those reads are wrong.


While true, that's boring as fuck. I stated early during the day that we could break this setup in a minute if so was our intention, but that I didn't want to turn a game of Mafia into nothing but setup and strategy analysis. That bores me.


I agree that day 1 reads tend to be the topkek, yet this is a micro setup with a single Mafia. It's not such an impossible task.
And even if I trust my d2+ reads way more than any previous ones, I'm god enough to nail the scum this early. Hell, on FM XIX I nailed my first scum on page one in a 40~ players setup. I'm pretty sure I can find 2 scum in a 6 players one.

And by taking the Mikecall read to heart, I meant SP's read on Mikecall.

Boring... I always thought that if we broke setups that could be won instantly with math eventually people would start making setups that can't be instantly broken and thus we'd get better setups and thus potentially better scumhunters.

When I went at attacking scumhunting here, I wasn't attacking scumhunting in general, but gathering reads based off if someone is scumhunting or not.

[Sen]

Shame you don't see what I see.






And by taking the Mikecall read to heart, I meant SP's read on Mikecall.

Boring... I always thought that if we broke setups that could be won instantly with math eventually people would start making setups that can't be instantly broken and thus we'd get better setups and thus potentially better scumhunters.

When I went at attacking scumhunting here, I wasn't attacking scumhunting in general, but gathering reads based off if someone is scumhunting or not.

SP confuses me; if you ISO his posts, they swing all over the place, reads change from one post to the other, and what was previously a reason for doing one thing, suddenly transforms into a mistake, a gut feeling, or similar.

As for scumhunting, whil I would argue that it is possible to scumhunt without posting a single thing during a day, this is a setup that should be done after a lynch and a set of night actions. Not making the most of d1 in this setup doesn't make any sense from a Town's perspective.

And on that note, it's a good moment to point out that Funce has been lurking, sheeped my reads but never casted a vote. What do you think of this?

[TheDarkestLight]

SP confuses me; if you ISO his posts, they swing all over the place, reads change from one post to the other, and what was previously a reason for doing one thing, suddenly transforms into a mistake, a gut feeling, or similar.

As for scumhunting, whil I would argue that it is possible to scumhunt without posting a single thing during a day, this is a setup that should be done after a lynch and a set of night actions. Not making the most of d1 in this setup doesn't make any sense from a Town's perspective.

And on that note, it's a good moment to point out that Funce has been lurking, sheeped my reads but never casted a vote. What do you think of this?

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.

[Sen]

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.

Because it's benefitial for the Town. Simple as that.

Whether you agree with Calix or not, think she's scum of not, you must acknoledge that she's one of the few who have helped to incite discussions which then help to get reads. There's no need for scum to do any of that; you can pretend to be busy, lurk around, or simply vomit a few fluffs and call it a day. The site meta is so broken that all of those behaviours are not only considered NAI, but even promoted by others.

In short; there's no need for scum to go out of their way to be pro-town. Not on this site, at the very least.

[Sen]

What do you make of Secondpassing, btw? You mentioned you think she's the Jester, which would mean that she's pushing for a mislynch (if she thought you were Mafia, she wouldn't vote you because that would make her lose). A mislynch only benefits the Mafia (because of 2 v 1 v 1 on d2); a Jester would be pushing a no-lynch in this game.

[RLVG]

The link to the day end time is broken /says it ended over a day ago)
I think the game ends in some 16 hours from now. I don't know if I'll be home and/or awake by then.

Diagnosing.

Date is wrong.

Fixed.

[TheDarkestLight]

Because it's benefitial for the Town. Simple as that.

Whether you agree with Calix or not, think she's scum of not, you must acknoledge that she's one of the few who have helped to incite discussions which then help to get reads. There's no need for scum to do any of that; you can pretend to be busy, lurk around, or simply vomit a few fluffs and call it a day. The site meta is so broken that all of those behaviours are not only considered NAI, but even promoted by others.

In short; there's no need for scum to go out of their way to be pro-town. Not on this site, at the very least.

There is need for scum to do contribute and that's because it helps them blend in or appear as strong town. Whether it is the sites meta or not, I hear you say that you hate meta, so why use site meta as an excuse?

As for SP, an ML could help the Jester as due to the two, likely three heals most likely means no deaths tonight.

[Funce]

I feel like I've been snagged on Sen's reasoning and now I can't get out.
My reads have not changed.
I still think SP and Mikecall are the scum, and if they're not then its Sen.
All I know, is that its not TDL.

I've been flitting through, haven't been able to post. I just read up a lot because if I get too far behind, I'll skip things, and miss interesting developments.
It only takes a single sentence for me to flip on someone.
It might be(still stuck in Sen) confirmation bias. But Mikecall's arguments are very damning for me.

I also do not know if my read on you, secondpassing, is confirmation bias either. I can not get out of my head that you are kind of floating and not really doing much.
I see some logic. But I'm still stuck in Sen's reasoning.

Again, My reads have not changed.

Town
Calix
TDL

Scum
Mikecall
Secondpassing

Probable Town, but too smart to discount.
Sen.

Firebringer played me for a fool. I am afraid of it happening again.
I will vote.

-vote SeCoNdPaSsInG

[Funce]

I also find it incredibly interesting, how I am your highest scum-read. But I don't see any super-hard pushing.
I hear your "Lets hear your thoughts on the situation" But my mind is already made up.
I could argue how TDL is town, which I think is the only other train today.

[Sen]

There is need for scum to do contribute and that's because it helps them blend in or appear as strong town.

Like I said; there's a difference from fluffs and actual contribution/scumhunting. Contributions lead to further discussion and new information. Scum doesn't need to contribute in order to blend in, they just need to look like they contribute.

Can Calix be scum? Sure; any of you could be. Do her actions point towards that? Nope.
Sure, she was misreping you, but hell, if we were to lynch anyone who misreps, insults, or throws ad hominems during a pissing contest, we would need more nooses than there are in this world.

As for SP, an ML could help the Jester as due to the two, likely three heals most likely means no deaths tonight.

I guess that could work with the right night actions, but still think the no-lynch would be their obvious play because it doesn't leave anything up to chance during the night.

---

I'm going out. Might be able to take a look at the thread before the day ends, but then I've got stuff to do tomorrow and won't be on for most of the day.

I think I've said my part at this point, and without any new developments, there's not much to add. I'd like to ask TDL and Calix to go back and read their pissing contest and see if you would really consider that scummy if it wasn't directed at you. Use your head instead of simply voting someone because you got mad.
It's not that we're gonna lose if we end the day with a no-lynch, but it would certainly complicate things in an unnecessary way.

Have a good one.

[Calix]

So much to comment on. I had to cut most of this out. I'll just say that I quite liked the secondpassing/ Sen interactions. I think Sen fared better in that respect compared to secondpassing's...odd comments.

Can you sense the fear in this one? This post makes no sense from a jester perspective since I doubt the jester fears the investigative roles.

Uh, why WOULDN'T the Jester fear Investigatives? Once they show up as 'your target is a girl' they are done for in terms of getting lynched.

Doing a review of his posts lets me believe that my vote is justified and continues to be. Many of these posts indicates how he is not the jester and is a safe lynch.
1. attacks without defense
2. relies upon others for defense
3. director of night actions in that special way

Let's lynch.

While this is true, didn't I do points 1 and 3? I don't follow how they make TDL scummy and not me.

I only think that TDL is unlikely to be Jester because of Mikecall/ SP. Which posts signal that he's NOT Jester? Not being scared of Investigatives doesn't count.

Spoiler : Sen :

Most of your reply was focused on me, and now you say that it's pointless to push me because I'm the Jester, so it's fair to say that your largest contribution by far was a big fluff.

Then you suddenly say that TDL is scum (conveniently enough, given that Calix will have a lot of weight when deciding if you hang today, and TDL seems to be the other likely candidate), yet never addressed a single one of his posts before saying that you are sure that he is scum.
And let's not forget the fact that you have Funce listed as scummier than TDL. lol

1.- Secondpassing says s/he's sure that TDL is scum.
2.- Finds the reasons for said accusation AFTER. (post hoc)
3.- Calix had made it pretty clear that she thinks TDL to be scum.
4.- Calix had also suggested that investigatives check Secondpassing tonight.
5.- Secondpassing has been mentioned as a likely scum candidate by at least half of the players.

I'm gonna call it right here: Secondpassing is Mafia, trying to buddy Calix.

Quoting for posterity. I'll have to reread with these points in mind.

Yes, I believe I missed that in the first time reading through. But none of his other posts seem to indicate he is jester.

That's not how it works. Scum are perfectly capable of looking like town. It's the slips they make that reveal their true intentions. They're called scum SLIPS for a reason.

Call me inflexible, but I have a hard time switching my read on Mikecall. The point of the question was wondering if the jester would end the game not make him win. And why should he care about the game if he already wins and dies?

Uh what? That last question makes no sense to me.

I've got Funce listed as scummier than TDL, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to see more out of him and lynch TheDarkestLight today. I think Funce will present himself in one way or the other very soon.

The way this is worded rubs me the wrong way. Just seems very casual, like he's able to change his reads at the drop of a hat.

[Calix]

Quote-wall 2.0

First things first, TDL and Mikecall's defensiveness levels are more toxic than Chernobyl.

Spoiler : These are Mikecall's only contributions between the time I logged off. No scum-hunting, just a defense of his post (which is poor) and a landfill of butt-hurt :

I'm back, and by reading through it, loads of people are contradicting that specific post on the jester win com, yes, I only said that specific question because I wanted to make sure, with the post with the 4v0v1 post, that jester would indeed lose us the game. (I wanted to just make sure before ending that part of the discussion).

But by the end of it, its your choice whether or not that strong case you built up would really strongly think that I am jester, but all I am saying is, I aint even jester at all, or neither mafia.

He just wanted to make sure that the explicit win conditions were what they claimed to be. kek

Really now, so you think I am mafia, good job , now I will be said to be a jester also as well.

But enough of the shitposting from myself,
If you are so hesitiate to thinking I am mafia, then why would you not vote me then? do you still fear that I am still jester?
Or is it do you still fear that the misslynch, like people have said before, would put us into lylo, from what I said from the scenarios that I have put up.

"Hey guys I'm so Mafia, why won't you vote me?"

Do I hear sarcasm, or do I hear you conviently trying to discredit me for my type of play, oh what will go wrong.

Please say more, its what I love hearing.

Also second, for the question I saw earlier, I thought my posts would of shown my inexperienced nature, which of course is quite inexperienced, aint even going to deny that, but I will state it in post game.

Join date: May twenty fucking fourteen

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester

[evidence needed]

and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."

"Everyone who accuses me is scummy."

Fucking hell, these reads.

Yes, because clearly the Mafia is incapable of scum hunting. You realize they have nothing to worry about since they have no partners?

I went at her because she made scummy moves, not personal reasons, and I already made a case, so you should probably reread it a few times since it apparently went over your head.

I laughed at the statement that there is nothing personal about the bitchfest we had. IT'S TOTALLY OBJECTIVE GUISE

Where is the case on me? All I got was "Calix makes misreps" and "she called me useless one time"

Normally the logic of "They're not scumhunting" is a weak phrase typically held up by noobish towns, very rarely scum. It gives no indicator of alignment. Now then, who they are scumhunting is different as that could mean connections depending on who they scumhunt, and how they scumhunting certain people, but since there is only one Mafia in this game those connections won't exist.

And don't you think the Mafia would want to Jester hunt? I mean, they only need to make sure that they don't get lynched, just like us.

I'm...still not seeing a case here. All TDL is doing is focusing on the POSSIBILITY of me being scum and not the probability. He refuses to read my posts from a town's perspective and blithely dismisses the chance of me being a Jester with NO evidence to back up his claims.

The tunneling is real.

Calix is continuing to maintain a open outlook toward all players instead of tunneling a few to find faults with them.
She literally talked to every player in this game and came out all the better for it. Just realized I said exactly what Sen said.

Self-awareness of regurgitated points, yet decides to post it anyway.

I have SP in my Jester list.

Why?

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.

What is the point of this? Why add this in your argument? "You won't see mafia use the setup in normal games but nobody will use the setup this game because everything is known."

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.

Still no case, save for a 'she's not town because scum can hunt for scum as well'. TDL has not made a case, he's just brushed aside the scum-hunting I've done because 'mafia can do it too'.

Spoiler : Funce's Contributions :

I feel like I've been snagged on Sen's reasoning and now I can't get out.
My reads have not changed.
I still think SP and Mikecall are the scum, and if they're not then its Sen.
All I know, is that its not TDL.

Oh my fucking GOD, you had piles of posts to sift through. HOW are your reads unaffected?

I've been flitting through, haven't been able to post. I just read up a lot because if I get too far behind, I'll skip things, and miss interesting developments.
It only takes a single sentence for me to flip on someone.
It might be(still stuck in Sen) confirmation bias. But Mikecall's arguments are very damning for me.

I also do not know if my read on you, secondpassing, is confirmation bias either. I can not get out of my head that you are kind of floating and not really doing much.
I see some logic. But I'm still stuck in Sen's reasoning.

Again, My reads have not changed.

I also find it incredibly interesting, how I am your highest scum-read. But I don't see any super-hard pushing.
I hear your "Lets hear your thoughts on the situation" But my mind is already made up.
I could argue how TDL is town, which I think is the only other train today.

Claims that a single sentence is enough for their read to flip, yet claims their reads have not changed. MFW

Claims TDL is so town guise, but does not present a case on TDL's behalf.

Claims their mind is 'already made up' which is disgusting when they claim that their reads have NOT changed since the last time they logged on

Funce also borrows from everyone else's arguments, doesn't push anyone, doesn't add anything new to the discussion, and yes I am aware that this is mostly NULL because it's fucking Funce the fuckass but it's so annoying to deal with, Jesus Christ. At least pretend that you have a single original thought in your head.

[Calix]

I just want to note that Funce was here reading and didn't feel it fit to comment. Bloody Hell.

Anyway I decided to reread. I still think he is even in retrospect, given how he has done nothing except for tunnel me. Even before he got into the death match with me, most of his posts just talked about peoples' reluctance to discuss strategies. (meanwhile discussing no strategy himself...)

Following this, he loses the initiative he had; he has to be prodded to post anything that isn't related to tearing me down.

Spoiler : This is the post that started the TDL/ Calix feud :

Do you have anything else to add outside of the following:

A) Yay, town cred!

B) Calix has a good read on Sen and I agree with it.

C) We should focus on the Jester even though lynching the Mafia is an infinitely better move.

D) Also I won't actually give any strategies despite whining about their utility and just expect people to feed me ideas.

Woo, keep discrediting. What I see here is a scum seeing someone being townread and wanting to tunnel them.

-vote Calix

Your attempts to discredit are not pro-town.


And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...

>Exaggerates my 'discredits'. I had only made one mildly critical post (calling his contributions useless, as my post shows) but he claims that I 'keep' discrediting him
>Massive overreaction to someone prodding him to make a better post
>Claims the townreads he has are threatening enough that anyone who questions him is scum
>Claims I'm 'not pro-town' after voting me

You did neither, you simply attempted to discredit me as useless since I was town read by a few people and you obviously felt threatened by that since you're Mafia

>Disproportionate level of confidence in his read compared to the knowledge that he should have as town
>Claims his town reads (aka, external factors) and not his posts make him a threat

Of course scum like you just want to make sure to mislynch today and ensure there are no strong town reads going into tomorrow, save yourself.

And if you're not Mafia, your play is just bad and you need to improve, unless you're jester, in which case... good job, you made yourself seem Mafia as fuck.

>Overly confident in his read of me as scum. As said, this is because I asked him to post something that wasn't useless, which is standard procedure for me
>This is his ONLY post where he considers that I am the Jester. He later claims that my behaviour 'makes no sense' as the Jester. Why? No idea, he never explains

Reads, it's easy, The Jester is between Sen, Funce and SP while you are the Mafia.

>He has to be prodded to make a single sentence unrelated to me that says "4/6 players could be scum". No shit.
>This implies that he town-reads Mikecall, for reasons that he never explains.

quite frankly, the fact people aren't calling me out is all that needs to be said.

"My play is town because other people say it is town, not because I can back it up with anything I have done."

yeah, now I'm discrediting you, but there is a big difference.

I actually scum read you. You're discrediting me just to discredit me, I'm discrediting you because you are scum.

This is why your play is bad, you can talk the talk easily, but you can't read for shit.

>Admits that he's rolling in the scum with those self-conscious discredits, yet justifies it as 'you're scum so you can be discredited'

And ohhh, does the Queen of discrediting not like being discredited? Well, at least I gave a valid reason for why I am discrediting you.

I'll happily be investigated, but you're even scummier for directing night actions. I sincerely hope that when people actually show up they see how scummy you are.

Hypocrisy.

"I'm scum-reading you for things that I am doing (and nothing else), but I has reasons so it's okay for me to do it!"

To move away from MattZed-esque imitations, he's acknowledging that his behaviour is unproductive AT THE TIME OF THE ARGUMENT yet justifies it and then uses the same behaviours to scum-read me

And leaving now, well, I like how you said earlier that you were going to stop talking because you were lazy, but I guess you were just to intent on defending yourself from one person.

Claims my misreps are scummy yet drastically misinterprets a comment about 'being too lazy to prod you into insulting me' into 'I'm going to stop talking'

Secondly, he's trying to turn real-life obligations into an argument about my 'scum attitude'. I'm including this because it's one of several examples of him tunneling and making everything I say into some secret mafia conspiracy. Another example includes claiming I was out of arguments for posting a gif in response to a post

[Calix]

Mikecall, I see you as well. Stop lurking, start posting.

[Mikecall]

Because of that other post I did before?

Or is it because you love my posts being very toxic.

[Calix]

Because of that other post I did before?

Or is it because you love my posts being very toxic.

Well yes, making posts where you acknowledge that lynching the Jester ends the game...before asking an extremely obvious question about wherever lynching the Jester ends the game...looks terrible.

Of all the things you could have commented on and you pick my comparison of your posts to Chernobyl

Your opinions on the happenings of Sen/ TDL/ secondpassing would be appreciated, given that you haven't gotten into the thick of things. Preferably a nice long paragraph stating your reads on everyone. No weather-forecasting reads, please.

[Mikecall]

Reads on people at the moment:
Sen: Taking my slip to heart? from what TDL says, Sen, your approach has been from that single slip that I made, and you think that it would be the end of the world and everything, if you are so fearful that I am, why didnt you try and pressure vote? like, if you are so feared by me, then this just makes it more interesting to see.

TDL: I would say Leaning Town, because he doesnt back down from trying to get a case going on Calix. Unless this is his scum tactic from trying to gain town credibility, I am saying that at the moment, he is the strongest town read.

SP: Does a bit of indepth analysis, but I feel like SP is trying to blend into town by doing a bit of scumhunting but not pushing the leads, something that I find suspicious overall.

But anyways, from this, my vote on funce has changed because funce is showing signs of him being funce, but might be very wrong on this fact, so yeah

But I aint going to vote yet on SP since SP is already on (L-2) at the moment.

[Calix]

Reads on people at the moment:
Sen: Taking my slip to heart? from what TDL says, Sen, your approach has been from that single slip that I made, and you think that it would be the end of the world and everything, if you are so fearful that I am, why didnt you try and pressure vote? like, if you are so feared by me, then this just makes it more interesting to see.

"I know you think I'm Jester, so you should vote me. You know, for science pressure."

10/10 elite-tier logic

TDL: I would say Leaning Town, because he doesnt back down from trying to get a case going on Calix. Unless this is his scum tactic from trying to gain town credibility, I am saying that at the moment, he is the strongest town read.

SP: Does a bit of indepth analysis, but I feel like SP is trying to blend into town by doing a bit of scumhunting but not pushing the leads, something that I find suspicious overall.

Firstly, what case? I've shown that his 'case' and vote only started because he overreacted to my post.

Secondly, while I disagree and I don't think that being stubborn = town, at least there is a reason for your town-read of TDL.

What makes your behaviour different from SP? Have you not also failed to push leads?

But anyways, from this, my vote on funce has changed because funce is showing signs of him being funce, but might be very wrong on this fact, so yeah

But I aint going to vote yet on SP since SP is already on (L-2) at the moment.

Meta!

What happened to your No-Lynch stance?

[Mikecall]

Because majority of you consistenly want a lynch, and you will fall back to the same fact over and over again, with my no lynch stance.

Also manipulating the reasoning for my first point, well done there Calix .

[Calix]

Because majority of you consistenly want a lynch, and you will fall back to the same fact over and over again, with my no lynch stance.

Also manipulating the reasoning for my first point, well done there Calix .

Your petulant tone is amusing.

Yes, I am impersonating the Great MattZed with my quoted misreps. However, that was some pretty blatant vote-begging there. Why would he need to pressure vote you? Why would he vote for the person he thinks is Jester? Answer me that.

[Mikecall]

Your petulant tone is amusing.

Yes, I am impersonating the Great MattZed with my quoted misreps. However, that was some pretty blatant vote-begging there. Why would he need to pressure vote you? Why would he vote for the person he thinks is Jester? Answer me that.

So you think I am trying to beg for votes, in such way, I am pointing out the facts about why would you would want to fear about it, I mean, there is nothing that could happen with pressure voting, but you keep thinking that I want to be lynched.

No, I aint even considering wanting you to vote me, if you believe I am the biggest threat for being the "Jester" so you claim, keep thinking that. But I am just stating, pressure voting is something that has to be kept in mind, why do you think I am not sheeping a vote on someone who potentially have the chance of someone hammering for the very wrong reasons.

And why would I need to be pressured, I aint even going to go into detail for that, you guys claim I am Jester, when I am not, you think I am trying to want to die, but I aint, its your choices at the end of the day, even if it does happen that I die tonight, you would know I wasnt jester, then you will probably think about my bad play.

But enough of this shennagins from my second post, all I am saying for both of your questions is, its what they think is right, if they want to pressure vote me, then I aint bothered, but I am only stating keeping that in mind.

[Calix]

So you think I am trying to beg for votes, in such way, I am pointing out the facts about why would you would want to fear about it, I mean, there is nothing that could happen with pressure voting, but you keep thinking that I want to be lynched.

No, I aint even considering wanting you to vote me, if you believe I am the biggest threat for being the "Jester" so you claim, keep thinking that. But I am just stating, pressure voting is something that has to be kept in mind, why do you think I am not sheeping a vote on someone who potentially have the chance of someone hammering for the very wrong reasons.

And why would I need to be pressured, I aint even going to go into detail for that, you guys claim I am Jester, when I am not, you think I am trying to want to die, but I aint, its your choices at the end of the day, even if it does happen that I die tonight, you would know I wasnt jester, then you will probably think about my bad play.

But enough of this shennagins from my second post, all I am saying for both of your questions is, its what they think is right, if they want to pressure vote me, then I aint bothered, but I am only stating keeping that in mind.

Again, why would you, the person being voted, need the pressure votes? Why would you bait like that and split votes when we are approaching night time?

Yes, I do believe that your contradictions in knowledge about the Jester's win conditions are damning. All it means is that I am not going to vote you. If you are actually town who decided to ask about something so obvious that even the Host sassed you, then congrats, you are NEVER getting mislynched. Now go use that power to help town.

Everyone needs to be pressured. It's a small game, we need as much information on everyone as we can get.

'Sheeping' - Implies that you don't truly think SP is a worthy train, otherwise you wouldn't have used such a weak word. Who are your stronger suspects and why are you not casing them?

[RLVG]

A tiny bit less than three hours remaining.

[TheDarkestLight]

I just want to note that Funce was here reading and didn't feel it fit to comment. Bloody Hell.

Anyway I decided to reread. I still think he is even in retrospect, given how he has done nothing except for tunnel me. Even before he got into the death match with me, most of his posts just talked about peoples' reluctance to discuss strategies. (meanwhile discussing no strategy himself...)

Following this, he loses the initiative he had; he has to be prodded to post anything that isn't related to tearing me down.





>Exaggerates my 'discredits'. I had only made one mildly critical post (calling his contributions useless, as my post shows) but he claims that I 'keep' discrediting him
>Massive overreaction to someone prodding him to make a better post
>Claims the townreads he has are threatening enough that anyone who questions him is scum
>Claims I'm 'not pro-town' after voting me



>Disproportionate level of confidence in his read compared to the knowledge that he should have as town
>Claims his town reads (aka, external factors) and not his posts make him a threat



>Overly confident in his read of me as scum. As said, this is because I asked him to post something that wasn't useless, which is standard procedure for me
>This is his ONLY post where he considers that I am the Jester. He later claims that my behaviour 'makes no sense' as the Jester. Why? No idea, he never explains



>He has to be prodded to make a single sentence unrelated to me that says "4/6 players could be scum". No shit.
>This implies that he town-reads Mikecall, for reasons that he never explains.



"My play is town because other people say it is town, not because I can back it up with anything I have done."



>Admits that he's rolling in the scum with those self-conscious discredits, yet justifies it as 'you're scum so you can be discredited'




Hypocrisy.

"I'm scum-reading you for things that I am doing (and nothing else), but I has reasons so it's okay for me to do it!"

To move away from MattZed-esque imitations, he's acknowledging that his behaviour is unproductive AT THE TIME OF THE ARGUMENT yet justifies it and then uses the same behaviours to scum-read me



Claims my misreps are scummy yet drastically misinterprets a comment about 'being too lazy to prod you into insulting me' into 'I'm going to stop talking'

Secondly, he's trying to turn real-life obligations into an argument about my 'scum attitude'. I'm including this because it's one of several examples of him tunneling and making everything I say into some secret mafia conspiracy. Another example includes claiming I was out of arguments for posting a gif in response to a post

Of course I'm still going at you. There is a single Mafia in this game and I'm reading you as it, what more is there to discuss? There's no point in Jester hunting when you have the Mafia pinned, but I guess this town just won't see it huh?


So, let's sum up every argument you've had.

Overconfident: Great way to get around my accusations without actually addressing them. You've been weaving your way around my accusations, why? Because you don't know how to address them? That's scummy reasoning. Please give an actual counterargument.

Hypocrisy: It takes one extra variable to completely change the meaning of things, and each and every time I pointed out those differences when I did them. But of course you don't seem to care and attribute it to what you do instantly. That's a grand misrepresentation of my actions.

Jester: It's highly unlikely that a Jester would go around discrediting everyone. Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would. People understand that that is what they could do and would spot it. That is why I don't think you're Jester.

Night Direction: I've stated it before, an investigation on you isn't necessary, but you seem to think one on me is. I like how you trying to direct both investigative roles isn't scummy, yet me simply giving a suggestion for one is. You were flat out going around ordering them, not a particularly town move on your part.

So, did I miss anything?

[Calix]

Allow me to paraphrase what TDL deemed valuable enough to spew onto the thread.

Of course I'm still going at you. There is a single Mafia in this game and I'm reading you as it, what more is there to discuss? There's no point in Jester hunting when you have the Mafia pinned, but I guess this town just won't see it huh?

Tunneling. A complete refusal to consider alternatives.

So, let's sum up every argument you've had.

Overconfident: Great way to get around my accusations without actually addressing them. You've been weaving your way around my accusations, why? Because you don't know how to address them? That's scummy reasoning. Please give an actual counterargument.

Ironically, this is projection. He claims that I am the person skirting around his accusations, meanwhile skirting around the accusations I made against him. Instead of responding point-by-point to the post I made on him, he makes an entirely new post so that he doesn't have to answer for his actual posts.

What accusations do you even have? If they're the points below, then that does not constitute a strong enough case to be as sure as you are that I am Mafia.

Accusations of 'not addressing' the 'accusations' - of which he doesn't actually say what they are. What exactly is your argument? "I'm butthurt at you for calling me out on a useless post, let's turn that into a scum-read."

Present a case and I'll consider it. Otherwise GTFO

Hypocrisy: It takes one extra variable to completely change the meaning of things, and each and every time I pointed out those differences when I did them. But of course you don't seem to care and attribute it to what you do instantly. That's a grand misrepresentation of my actions.

I am not entirely sure what his point even is here, aside from being defensive. There are no differences. Directing TPRs, for example, is directing TPRs. Simple as that.

Somehow I doubt he will explain so I will write it off as 'sore loser' unless he deems it worthy enough to explain.

Jester: It's highly unlikely that a Jester would go around discrediting everyone. Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would. People understand that that is what they could do and would spot it. That is why I don't think you're Jester.

You claim that I may offer a rebuttal of "Jester wants to piss people off" - implying that I hadn't (which is true) - before claiming that I...already made that argument? What?

You put words into my mouth, act like those are my thoughts and then counter them. Why would Mafia want to 'discredit everyone' but not Jester?

I'm sure there's some name for that.

Night Direction: I've stated it before, an investigation on you isn't necessary, but you seem to think one on me is. I like how you trying to direct both investigative roles isn't scummy, yet me simply giving a suggestion for one is. You were flat out going around ordering them, not a particularly town move on your part.

It's not necessary because your reads are so pro that they override night results? lol, what happened to the cautious TDL?

No, I'm calling you scummy because you are scum-reading me for shit that you yourself are doing, then using pedantic details to paint your actions as town.

[RLVG]

30 minutes

[TheDarkestLight]

Allow me to paraphrase what TDL deemed valuable enough to spew onto the thread.



Tunneling. A complete refusal to consider alternatives.



Ironically, this is projection. He claims that I am the person skirting around his accusations, meanwhile skirting around the accusations I made against him. Instead of responding point-by-point to the post I made on him, he makes an entirely new post so that he doesn't have to answer for his actual posts.

What accusations do you even have? If they're the points below, then that does not constitute a strong enough case to be as sure as you are that I am Mafia.

Accusations of 'not addressing' the 'accusations' - of which he doesn't actually say what they are. What exactly is your argument? "I'm butthurt at you for calling me out on a useless post, let's turn that into a scum-read."

Present a case and I'll consider it. Otherwise GTFO



I am not entirely sure what his point even is here, aside from being defensive. There are no differences. Directing TPRs, for example, is directing TPRs. Simple as that.

Somehow I doubt he will explain so I will write it off as 'sore loser' unless he deems it worthy enough to explain.



You claim that I may offer a rebuttal of "Jester wants to piss people off" - implying that I hadn't (which is true) - before claiming that I...already made that argument? What?

You put words into my mouth, act like those are my thoughts and then counter them. Why would Mafia want to 'discredit everyone' but not Jester?

I'm sure there's some name for that.



It's not necessary because your reads are so pro that they override night results? lol, what happened to the cautious TDL?

No, I'm calling you scummy because you are scum-reading me for shit that you yourself are doing, then using pedantic details to paint your actions as town.

I've been considering other possibilities, but signs point to you.

Oh no, I have a different posting style than you, I must be scum.

If you don't know my argument then clearly you haven't been reading.

Your whole argument against me is that I was butthurt, I wasn't. You simply painted yourself out to be scum and I went at it.

I don't need you to consider my case, no matter what I bring up you'll say no because you're the target. Are you stupid?

I did explain, if it went over your head then your not worth the effort. Really you say I don't explain yet... I did.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal, I said that that is a likely "excuse for what you're doing", and I went against it before it could be claimed.

Mafia would to appear as a jester and not be lynched.

Everything is in the details. As I've explained a single detail is enough to change the meaning of something. So, you're calling me scummy for doing what you're doing. So doesn't that mean you're scummy?

[Calix]

I've been considering other possibilities, but signs point to you.

Oh no, I have a different posting style than you, I must be scum.

If you don't know my argument then clearly you haven't been reading.

Your whole argument against me is that I was butthurt, I wasn't. You simply painted yourself out to be scum and I went at it.

I don't need you to consider my case, no matter what I bring up you'll say no because you're the target. Are you stupid?

I did explain, if it went over your head then your not worth the effort. Really you say I don't explain yet... I did.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal, I said that that is a likely "excuse for what you're doing", and I went against it before it could be claimed.

Mafia would to appear as a jester and not be lynched.

Everything is in the details. As I've explained a single detail is enough to change the meaning of something. So, you're calling me scummy for doing what you're doing. So doesn't that mean you're scummy?

You say this, but offer no evidence to show that you've taken anyone else into consideration. At this point, you're just using your 'GG, Calix is scum' angle to avoid talking in-depth about anyone or anything else. What have you actually done outside of repeating 'Calix is scum, nothing else has to be said', really? If I hadn't prodded you, you would have barely posted. Have you even tried to push anyone else? I think not.

Painfully obvious misrep from the guy claiming that my misreps are scummy even though we are doing it for the same reason.

If I, the person being accused, barely even knows what I am being accused of, then how am I supposed to defend myself adequately? I've set out my issues with you clearly. You just drag your feet and do the "read the chat" schtick instead of being clear and resolving the matter logically.

"I'm not worth the effort." - The guy who has tunneled me at the expense of everything else.

Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal

Er no, you clearly said that I made that argument. I did not and everyone can attest to it, scrub.

More projection. I've been arguing that you are scum for accusing me of doing things which you yourself are doing. Now you are throwing this argument back at me. Jesus Christ it is pathetic that people are actually town-reading someone this hypocritical.

[RLVG]

Night 1

Spoiler : WILL SOMEONE DIE TONIGHT :

Players :

1. Calix
2. Funce
3. Mikecall
4. Sen
5. Secondpassing
6. TheDarkestLight

{ Night ends in 48 hours, or if 24 hours are skipped. }



4 votes to hammer.

Lynch the Host to skip 24 hours of the day. Several hours may be missed out on if the host isn't around.
Alternatively you may do a fake vote (Although host won't see it immediately) : -Vote Skip

[RLVG]

It's safe to chat because all-nighter or something.

[Sen]

Tonight is forever. Tell me now you don't disagree. ♫

[Sen]

I am gender fluid.
That means sometimes I'm a boy, and I'll protect Calix with my life.
But sometimes I'm a girl, and I'll check Secondpassing to make sure she has a penis.
Or maybe I'm both and I'll spend the night porking myself!

[Mikecall]

Very nice music there.

[Sen]

Very nice music there.

Let's dance, Mike. <3

[Calix]

I am gender fluid.
That means sometimes I'm a boy, and I'll protect Calix with my life.
But sometimes I'm a girl, and I'll check Secondpassing to make sure she has a penis.
Or maybe I'm both and I'll spend the night porking myself!

This is actually a good way to signal who we would target as Town Boy/ Girl. Calix approves.

[TheDarkestLight]

You say this, but offer no evidence to show that you've taken anyone else into consideration. At this point, you're just using your 'GG, Calix is scum' angle to avoid talking in-depth about anyone or anything else. What have you actually done outside of repeating 'Calix is scum, nothing else has to be said', really? If I hadn't prodded you, you would have barely posted. Have you even tried to push anyone else? I think not.

Painfully obvious misrep from the guy claiming that my misreps are scummy even though we are doing it for the same reason.

If I, the person being accused, barely even knows what I am being accused of, then how am I supposed to defend myself adequately? I've set out my issues with you clearly. You just drag your feet and do the "read the chat" schtick instead of being clear and resolving the matter logically.

"I'm not worth the effort." - The guy who has tunneled me at the expense of everything else.




Er no, you clearly said that I made that argument. I did not and everyone can attest to it, scrub.

More projection. I've been arguing that you are scum for accusing me of doing things which you yourself are doing. Now you are throwing this argument back at me. Jesus Christ it is pathetic that people are actually town-reading someone this hypocritical.

You know, your first point would be a legitimate argument for why I'm scum... if there was more than one this game. That suggests I'm pushing attention or intentionally avoiding talking about someone, but... there's one scum. So in a game like this, a scum would be open to talking about literally anyone, so tunneling isn't really a good argument for scum. Next OMGUS argument please?

The same reason now, but you initially did it thinking I was town, now you're doing it after you make a very convenient OMGUS scum read out of nowhere.

If you, the person being accused barely knows what you're being accused of, then you should read again maybe?

Not worth the effort of going back through posts when you should have already read it.

You misinterpret what I said. It was a hypothetical scenario in case someone brought up that argument, trying to describe why the Jester wouldn't do something like that, and that is because it's someone players with half a brain would come up with. Look at the first words of the sentence, "oh sure, you might".

Good God it's pathetic people are town reading you.

[Mikecall]

Let's dance, Mike. <3

But what rhythm though :/, xD.