By VCA I think Mikecall looks the worst out of everyone.
Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.
I was the second one to vote deathworlds, though I fear I was tunneling. I looked for reasons to lynch him, not save him. Its clear that players here are not playing to the second level of WIFOM.
deathworlds was actually right on Valid and maybe his radar is good especially this game. I don't think anyone expected that Spruance flip. But I think we should still go ahead and pressure yzb, SuperJack, and now DarknessB. I need to relook at deathworlds' reads.
Calix* not Valid
The voice of deathworlds would have encouraged us to kill Firebringer, MattZed, me, and SuperJack. I might have missed someone.
And yzb
This site has a problem with running multiple people up day one and getting tons of claims day 1
You're right that the DW train was awful - I took that stance all day and switched to DW before day end as a compromise. Wether or not yzb is TPR or not, we had plenty of time during the day to pressure him and anyone else - you guys pick the last 2-3 hours or so to set up a counter train to a L-1 citizen claim? Very very poor form.
:toad:
Spoiler : O.o :
I thought this train was legitimately good and I explained my reasons for it yesterday, whether or not anyone found them comprehensible is another matter. I found Calix's posts just that little bit odd yesterday, but I'm against Calix day 1 lynches, this will have to be changed if I ever play another match with her (highly likely).
Calix votes deathworlds for calling her out on being that neutral.
Firebringer sheeped.
I did mine for those reasons ye.
MattZed and Toadette were pro-lynch.
Mikecall thought deathworlds was scummy?
yzb25 votes deathworlds to help train? thought he was scum? self-preservation?
Vote Count 8
deathworlds (6 [L-1]):
Calix, Firebringer, secondpassing, Mikecall, yzb25, Toadette
yzb25 (4 [L-3]):
MattZed, RLVG, GameFreak, DarknessB
Mikecall (2 [L-5]):
Spruance, Shifty
Calix (1 [L-6]):
deathworlds
Vote Count 9
deathworlds (7 [L-0]): Calix, MattZed, Firebringer, secondpassing, Mikecall,yzb25, Toadette
Mikecall (2 [L-5]): Spruance, Shifty
yzb25 (4 [L-3]): deathworlds, RLVG, GameFreak, DarknessB
I was quite disappointed in yzb25's defense.
My current priorities in what I want to get done today are to vote yzb25, Mikecall, SuperJack, DarknessB, and maybe Toadette.
yzb25 will probably say something in his own defense soon.
-vote SuperJack
Context of this post: no one is on. this vote is to help you help me pressure this guy.
Oh and I'm sorry to everyone who felt some of my frustration yesterday.
@Toadette: sorry for sarcastically calling you the #1 player. I actually think you are pretty good at mafia.
I suppose I can do Toadette's analysis for her:
"Shit reason" voters:
Secondpassing - voted death early for tunneling and never took the vote back. Admits reasons were weak, and being quite overly apologetic about being on a mislynch train.
Mikecall - OMGUS vote; accuses deathworlds of joining the mike train to save himself, all while doing the exact same thing and not even trying to come up with good reasons.
yzb25 - caved to pressure after Calix told everyone to vote deathworlds. His vote post is literally him telling Calix "Man, you've been trying so hard. Here, take it." and sheeping.
Lynch avoiders:
secondpassing and yzb were both interested in starting clearly pointless trains and not putting their votes where it mattered. RLVG took a while to join any train but his one-man crusade against me. Shifty lurked the thread at end of day a lot but didn't see the need to get involved.
Thanks Matt. I'll ignore the snarky comment as it added nothing of value, but the rest of your post was great.
I got to like page 23 or so before I had other things to do earlier. Probably not going to get to it again until tomorrow.
:toad:
Spoiler : O.o :
deathworlds tunneled Calix for softclaiming neut, and Calix tunneled back out of defensiveness. We mislynched deathworlds in a pretty shitty lynch, and then Calix died last night and turned up neut; Spruance died as a TPR.
We tried shifting the train to yzb at last minute yesterday and he basically laughed off pressure and failed to respond to it in any meaningful way.
Mike has been basically useless by restating the opinions of others and merely summarizing facts we already know.
RLVG tunneled me a lot yesterday with the claim that aggressively picking at everyone is scummy.
secondpassing has been all over the board; main coherent thing as of late is that he likes Firebringer
Fire hasn't done all too much with his voting; he voted deathworlds early, has been adamantly reading me as town, and posted some readwalls, but not aggressively pursuing anyone.
Gamefreak was basically lurking.
Darkness stood back for most the day and got called on it. Mostly in the usually Darkness meta outside of that.
Toadette's been Toadette and has made a huge stink about how deathworlds wasn't auto-lynched when he claimed cit.
MattZed's been MattZed, but more aggressive and snarky than usual.
Shifty basically wasn't playing aside from prodding secondpassing, so it'd be nice if you could establish a personality of your slot for us to read.
Aight i've done my exam so i'll be popping in more again today. For my thoughts. I'm stating now i didn't reread yet so this is from memory.
Not alot of discussion is going on about what role the dead were... Only Mike brought it up.
Either 1 was tailored, or none was.
Calix i'm not sure, yesterday she kept saying she was indeed neutral and now claims widower. It might also be a smart LD, but if she truly is
WD then that means our widower shot N1 ... Then we should look to who did not trust Calix. But nobody voted her for the entire day except DW ?
I would surely call for a tailor here (and we'll be sure tomorrow unless TP saves) but...
Spruance popped as detective, i have no clue what to think of this. If somebody told me this yesterday i would've laughed because i was looking for him and yzb to get some questions.
But he left no will (really dude ?). So i would call this more tailored than anything if it was a competent player. But if he was tailored it would mean that Calix was indeed LD.
Both of these scenarios 1) Widow shot LD
2) Spruance was Detective
are so unlikely i don't know what to think.
For now i'm going to assume LD is still alive though.
VCA next
Pretty sure you stated policy lycnhes alot. yesterday when the cit claimed you did the same, you also spread alot of misinformation yesterday and now you are
buddying extremely hard with Fire.
VCA:
Vote Count 9
deathworlds (7 [L-0]): Calix, MattZed, Firebringer, secondpassing, Mikecall,yzb25, Toadette
Mikecall (2 [L-5]): Spruance, Shifty
yzb25 (4 [L-3]): deathworlds, RLVG, GameFreak, DarknessB
I do agree that somebody in that lineup has to be scum.
deathworlds
Firebringer voted for pressure.
Mike voted to get attention away from his lynch
Yzb same
Matt hammered but was on it earlier aswell
Toadette is pro lynch day1
Secondpassing i believe this was also a pressure vote. But it came later.
To be honest we can't really say we voted well if we look at how Calix flipped. And alot of people just didn't want to get lynched day1.
I still expect 1-2 scum in that list. But everybody here voted shit so i can't clear anybody, That being said
Matt is looking more town in my eyes, Toadette looks scummier. The rest is the same.
Other lynches
Mike:
Spruance, well he never gave reasons
Shifty, gave the vote when he was under pressure and left.
We should really pressure SJ abit especially after this post and then disappearing, Shifty 2.0.
yzb
Me, i still find him scum
The rest pretty much agreed here
but between RLVG and DB chances are likely there is a scum. Or SJ is one.
I don't find it likely 3 scum jumped on DW train, but i can believe it considering nobody had good reasons.
My god, pressuring 3 people is idealistic. Talk about unfocused.
And I won't be saying any more in my defense, unless I get asked new questions. I said all I could say yesterday.
1) I went through phases of believing and disbelieving DW. Tbh, towards the end, I wasn't really sure if he was tunneling as a scum or a town any more, as his play was completely retarded from the perspective of any alignment. I honestly gravitated towards thinking he was town towards the end, but I voted anyway.
2) Why did I vote anyway? I can't really remember. I think it might really have been a fuck-it moment. But my reasons were almost definitely shit if I was gravitating towards thinking he was town. XD
I'm not forgiving this just because it's you Toadette. While you have some good contributions, you have no right to comment on strategies like roleclaiming or lynch-train switching if you haven't even looked into the setup, because certain strategies that are usually unjustifiable are justified in certain setups. READ THE SETUP!!! THIS SETUP IS RELATIVELY SIMPLE ANYWAY!!!
Don't lie, you got to post #1100 and thought "fuck this", like a normal human being would lol. Anyway, if one read being wrong has a domino effect and destroys all your other reads, that makes your reads far less reliable. You should avoid linking everyone together in a "grand-read" for the first couple days. Obviously, you're far better at reading people than me, I'm merely criticizing what elements of your reads you focus on and when.
tbf, Mattzed's right. My personal reaction may have gave you that impression, but on reflection he was only pressure-testing me n stuff.
He just saw my reaction to pressure and was like "hmm Idm lynching him if it means I don't die" >.>
There was an unsubstantiated claim about Darkness as well. Something about him switching his opinion of someone when he never actually switched his opinion of said person. I can barely remember it now, it's all a blur. I'm sure DB himself will happily point it out.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Anyway, I don't know why y'all haven't looked into the night actions with more detail. There is a lot that can be analyzed / learned. We should be giving the night actions a far closer look before (presumably) me and perhaps Mikecall are pressured. I'll make a medium-sized speculation post about it, but I don't want to be alone.
Was tied up with work last night, but catching up now.
Calix died, flipping lady death, and had a last will claiming widower. This is a massive contradiction to like everything. But first a few quick points.
- She can't actually be lady death, or she wouldn't have been able to be nightkilled. Meaning she must have been tailored.
- This would imply one of two things:
1) She was tailed but not cult-attacked (touched by LD)
2) She was tailed and night-attacked.
Now, both of these possibilities are wildly unlikely anyway. Let's begin by considering 2: (sorry lol)
Why the fuck would you take such a massive gamble that the healer won't be on Calix? She was probably the most town-read person in the game, and with a lack of other deductions the healer can make on d1, the healer was likely to have gone with the most town-read person to be safe, ANYWAY. Furthermore, why the fuck would you tailor her to be LD, if you're gonna nightkill her in such a manner? That's a retarded move because it's going to be immediately obvious she was tailored when she says in her lw: "lol guys I was x role!" If you want to take out the strongest town, you'd just NK her and not bother wasting such an obvious tailoring on her.
Let's consider 1:
she was tailored and not NKed? Why the fuck would tailor just tailor a random person like that, who they're not gonna nightkill? And isn't it a wild coincidence that the person who was tailored was the person who died?
None of this makes any sense. I might be a retard, but I can't think of a genuine hypothesis to explain this.
Do tailorings last forever?
If tailorings do wear off, will they use up a charge anyway if they fail?
Honestly. You want me to read through day one?
I'm not doing that. The reason why I've been reserving for games recently is because of the amount of shit posted them days.
And if I am forced to read the, It will take me a considerable amount of time, and unlike the way you have been reading. a gradual build up of the day, I have basically a large text book to read. To which it will give me much less information to reading the ongoing posts and thinking about them instead.
So, you basically have a choice, I sit back and read and not get involved, or I can get involved but only know the brief summery of day 1.
But one think I will not have, is any player giving me shit for doing one, but not the other.
You fucking moronic idiot toadette!!!!! Use your fucking head. That first push on me was fine, then people let off... THAT WAS A GOOD PLAY, but pushing on me again... WTF are you thinking?!?!?!! I'm a more important role than you are and I can give use a role.... now I'll have to find a hidden way to give you that role in case I freakin die. god fucking damnit
Deathworlds
- MattZed: Ultimately hammered deathworlds as he promised after Firebringer completed his review of Day 1, but had been pushing hard yzb and others. Doesn't come off particularly scummy to me for this decision given when it took place. Not particularly suspicious to me.
- Firebringer: Voted for deathworlds somewhat earlier in the day, perhaps based on Calix's pressure on him. I don't recall a lot of Fire / DW interaction toward the end of the day. Fire had posted his read walls and not much else during the second half of the day. Somewhat suspicious IMO.
- secondpassing: I don't recall secondpassing having a particularly good reason for voting deathworlds and I think that he might have even had others ahead on his various read lists. Somewhat suspicious, especially in combination with his reads which seemed a little off.
- Mikecall: Mike's vote seemed mostly out of preservation given he was also being voted up. I don't recall him really having a cogent case against DW either. Suspicious, trending down.
- yzb25: Seemed to be a flagrant sheeping of Calix without much independent thought on why he thought DW was suspicious. Suspicious.
- Toadette: Vote seemed driven by a desire for information and to avoid a no-lynch. Not particularly suspicious.
Not Deathworlds:
- Shifty (SuperJack): Shifty was the definition of an empty slot on Day 1. The fact that he would not get on the DW train might mean he was AFK scum though. Suspicious.
- RLVG. He was putting a good deal of thought into trying to tease out whether there was any connection between MattZed and Firebringer. Seemed principled in his votes. Not particularly suspicious.
- GameFreak. Not particularly active outside of spurts, but was contributing to the questioning of yzb. Somewhere in the middle.
If there was a mass claim, then pretty much everyone's roles would be out in the open for what they are claiming. Only problem is, we would be going into lylo or mylo if the lynch for today failed since would be 3v3v1 the next day if lady death doesnt kill one of the mafia.
I screwed up my coloring on Firebringer btw, he should be straight yellow, not half green, half yellow.