S-FM Illuminati (9P)

[MattZed]

ILLUMINΔTI
For 9 players

Setup is ready for review!

Spoiler : Changelog :

8/24/15 - Added all possible feedbacks
8/24/15 - Amnesiac targets dead players, not roles

8/23/15 - Added tie-breaking mechanic
8/23/15 - Added that at least one member of a faction must survive to win.
8/23/15 - Clarified that cleaning removes Last Wills; Revealed Mayor and Conspiracy Theorist cannot be cleaned
8/23/15 - Conspiracy Theorist appears as original role upon death

8/22/15 - Reduced Mayor votes to 2; Hidden Illuminati can now be cits
8/22/15 - Removed a town; added a clean to Godfather kill

7/22/15 - Slight tidying up

6/28/15 - Edited Setup C to have a Hidden Illuminati; added rolecards
6/28/15 - Added Setups C,D,E, and F. Also added rolecards for Mayors
6/28/15 - Clarified OoO
6/28/15 - Added pyramid.
6/28/15 - Added RP.
6/28/15 - Added 'recant' mechanic and rolecards for Survivor/Amnesiac/Jester.

6/27/15 - Clarified that Hidden town cannot be masons.

RP:This was once a quiet little town. One day, the local mafia decided that it was time to seize control. Or did they? One of you suspects something far more sinister is afoot. It is up to you and your fellow townsfolk to find and eliminate the true threat.

Possible Setups:

Setup A	Setup B	Setup C	Setup D	Setup E	Setup F
Godfather	Godfather (Illuminati)	Godfather	Godfather	Godfather (Illuminati)	Godfather
Consigliere	Consigliere	Consigliere (Illuminati)	Consigliere	Consigliere	Consigliere (Illuminati)
Conspiracy Theorist	Conspiracy Theorist	Conspiracy Theorist	Conspiracy Theorist	Conspiracy Theorist	Conspiracy Theorist
Mason	Mason (Illuminati)	Hidden Illuminati	Mayor	Mayor (Illuminati)	Mayor (Illuminati)
Mason	Mason (Illuminati)	Mason (Illuminati)	Hidden Town	Hidden Illuminati	Hidden Illuminati
Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Mason	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town
Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town
Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town
Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town	Hidden Town

The Hidden Town cannot be Masons or Mayor.
The Hidden Illuminati can be one of Citizen, Sheriff, Doctor, or Escort.

Spoiler : Role PM Format :

ROLE
Some things about that role

Night Chat 1: (N/A if no night chat)
Night Chat 2: (N/A if no second night chat)

Spoiler : Illuminati Roles :

Godfather (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati, and a separate one with the Consigliere.
At night, you may choose someone to kill. You may not kill the Consigliere.
The role and last will of the person you kill will not be revealed publicly. You will learn their role and last will as part of your feedback.
This effect does not apply to a revealed Mayor or a Conspiracy Theorist/Survivor/Amnesiac/Jester.
Upon death, you appear as a Godfather.

Consigliere (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati, and a separate one with the Godfather.
At night, you may check someone for their exact role.
Upon death, you appear as a Consigliere.
If the Godfather/Godfather dies, you become Godfather.

Sheriff (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
At night, you may check someone for their exact role.
Upon death, you appear as a Sheriff.

Doctor (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
At night, you may heal one person, preventing them from dying.
Upon death, you appear as a Doctor

Escort (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
At night you may roleblock someone, preventing them from performing any actions that night.
Upon death, you appear as an Escort

Mason (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
You also share a night chat with the Mason, if they exist.
Upon death, you appear as a Mason.

Mayor (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
During day, you can PM me to reveal yourself as mayor, giving you an additional vote as long as you are alive.
Upon death, you appear as a Mayor.

Citizen (Illuminati)
You share a night chat with the rest of the Illuminati.
Upon death, you appear as a Citizen.

Spoiler : Mafia Roles :

Godfather
You share a night chat with the Consigliere.
At night, you may choose someone to kill.
The role and last will of the person you kill will not be revealed publicly. You will learn their role and last will as part of your feedback.
This effect does not apply to a revealed Mayor or a Conspiracy Theorist/Survivor/Amnesiac/Jester.
If you attempt to kill the Consigliere/Consigliere, this kill cannot be roleblocked or healed.

Consigliere
At night, you may check someone for their exact role. (you will not learn if they are part of the Illuminati)
You may forgo this check to instead kill the Godfather/Godfather. This kill cannot be roleblocked and ignores healing.
If the Godfather/Godfather dies, you become Godfather.

Spoiler : Town Roles :

Sheriff
At night, check one person for being a member of the mafia.
A Godfather/Consigliere appears as mafia to you.

Doctor
At night, you may heal one person, preventing them from dying.

Escort
At night you may roleblock someone, preventing them from performing any actions that night.

Vigilante
You have a two-shot revolver, which may be used to kill at night. May not be used N1.

Mason
You share a night chat with the other Mason/Mason.

Mayor
During day, you can PM me to reveal yourself as mayor, giving you an additional vote as long as you are alive.

Citizen
You have no special abilities.

Spoiler : Conspiracy Theorist :

Conspiracy Theorist
At night, you may check if someone is a member of the Illuminati.
If we are in setup B, C, E, or F, you will learn the truth. If we are in setup A or D, I will flip a coin.
You have a one-shot revolver, which you may use instead of performing your usual night action.
You have a one-use autovest.

At night, you may recant your conspiracy theories instead of performing any other night actions.
Recanting cannot be roleblocked.
If there is an Illuminati, you will die and lose.
If there is not, you randomly become a Survivor/Amnesiac/Jester.

Survivor
You keep any items you may have had as a Conspiracy Theorist.
You must survive until the end to win.
Upon death or investigation, you appear as a Conspiracy Theorist.

Amnesiac
You lose any items you may have had as a Conspiracy Theorist.
At night, you may choose to remember, becoming the role of a dead player of your choice.
The fact that you chose to remember will not be revealed to town.
If you choose to remember that you were a Godfather, any current one is demoted to Consigliere.
If you choose to become any role, you acquire that role's win condition. Otherwise, you must survive until the end.
Upon death or investigation, you appear as a Conspiracy Theorist.

Jester
You lose any items you may have had as a Conspiracy Theorist.
You must be lynched before the end of the game to win.
Upon death or investigation, you appear as a Conspiracy Theorist.

Order of Operations: (OoO)
0.a. Night chats open
0.b. Night chats close
1. Escort blocks
2. Doctor heals
3. Conspiracy Theorist attacks/investigates
4. Non-Illuminati Mafia actions:
4.a. Consigliere
4.b. Godfather
5. Illuminati Mafia actions:
5.a. Consigliere
5.b. Godfather
6. Vigilante attacks
7. Sheriff investigates
8. Conspiracy Theorist recants
9. Night ends

Spoiler : Possible Feedback :

Spoiler : Godfather :

Last night, you killed XXX. Their role was xxx.

Last night, you tried to kill XXX, but were not successful.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Consigliere :

XXX's role is xxx.

Last night, you killed the Godfather and have taken their role.

Last night, the Godfather died. You have now taken their role.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Sheriff(Town) :

[quote]

XXX is NOT a member of the Mafia.

XXX is a member of the Mafia.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Sheriff(Illuminati) :

XXX's role is xxx.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Doctor :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Escort :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Vigilante :

Last night, you shot XXX. You have x shots remaining.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Mason :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Mayor :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Citizen :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Conspiracy Theorist :

You suspect that XXX is a member of the Illuminati.

You suspect that XXX is NOT a member of the Illuminati.

You have shot XXX. Your gun is now out of bullets.

You have recanted your theories and become a Survivor.

You have recanted your theories and become an Amnesiac. You have lost all items you had.

You have recanted your theories and become a Jester. You have lost all items you had.

You have recanted your theories, but it turns out the Illuminati are real. You have committed suicide.

Dead Chat

You were attacked last night, but your bulletproof vest saved you. It is now expended.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Survivor :

You have shot XXX. Your gun is now out of bullets.

You were attacked last night, but your bulletproof vest saved you. It is now expended.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Amnesiac :

You remember that you were like XXX. Your role is now xxx.

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Spoiler : Jester :

You had some great sex last night.

No Feedback.

You are dead.

Dead Chat.

Mechanics:
Days last 48 hours
Nights last 24 hours
Last wills allowed (and encouraged)
No death notes
Lynch requires 51% votes and will use the [vote] tags.
Day immediately ends after a lynch
Night actions must be PM'd to me or posted in night chat
Graveyard will reveal role but not method of death
Game starts with day 1, lynch possible.

Special Mechanics:
Before the game begins, I will decide if we will be playing Setup A,B,C,D,E, or F. Which setup we are playing will not be publicly announced, and it is up to players to figure out and pursue the appropriate win condition.

Win Conditions:
Setups A,D:
Mafia: Eliminate the Town and have at least one member of the Mafia survive, or make it so nothing can stop you from doing so.
Town:Eliminate the Mafia and have least one member of the Town survive.
Conspiracy Theorist: Recant your theories, and achieve your new role's win condition.
Survivor: Survive until the end.
Amnesiac: If you remember you were another role, achieve that role's win condition. Otherwise, survive until the end.
Jester: Be lynched before the end of the game.

Mafia wins all ties.

Setups B,C,E,F:
Illuminati: Eliminate the Non-Illuminati and have at least one Illuminati survive, or make it so nothing can stop you from doing so.
Non-Illuminati: Eliminate the Illuminati and have at least one Non-Illuminati survive.

Illuminati wins all ties.

Rules:
1. Inactives will be replaced. Missing a night action without telling me "perform no action" counts as inactivity, as does not posting in the first 36 hours of a day.
2.No out-of-game communication.
3. No editing or deleting posts.
4. No videos or links. (Pictures OK, but keep them reasonable)
5. No invisible text.
6. No quoting PM's.
7. English only.
8. No excessive trolling/personal attacks

[Slaol]

I love this setup.

If th Consiglire kills the Godfather in setup B does he become the Illuminati?

Also, please reconsider the Conspiracy Theorists win condition. Currently he should just claim and lurk the whole game.

Perhaps make him always see things as if the illuminati is real, and his wincondition is to declare his assumption of the real setup at the time of his death/game end.

[MattZed]

I love this setup.

If th Consiglire kills the Godfather in setup B does he become the Illuminati?

Glad to hear it! My current thoughts for revision are to add more possible setups, (One of which probably includes SK; I'd like to make Conspiracy Theorist show as SK to sheriff to make his win harder) and buff the Illuminati somehow; it seems right now that if the Illuminati lose the Godfather, they simply lose.

No, a Consig killing an Illuminati GF remains anti-Illuminati. (it wouldn't make sense if killing someone to pursue his wincon would change his wincon, anyways)

[MattZed]

Also, please reconsider the Conspiracy Theorists win condition. Currently he should just claim and lurk the whole game.

Perhaps make him always see things as if the illuminati is real, and his wincondition is to declare his assumption of the real setup at the time of his death/game end.

My intention is that he should not be safe claiming right away. I was hoping I had given enough tools for town to consider lynching him if they felt like they were in Setup A and didn't have any leads, and I wanted him to have a vest so he felt like he could lurk and then scumside. In setup B, he's basically just a town role, and he's in a good place there. It's just setup A I'd worry about, so I'll look into it some more.

I had considered making him a "setup guesser" win condition before, but I couldn't find a way to do that that actually encouraged him to play/post.

[Slaol]

Glad to hear it! My current thoughts for revision are to add more possible setups, (One of which probably includes SK; I'd like to make Conspiracy Theorist show as SK to sheriff to make his win harder) and buff the Illuminati somehow; it seems right now that if the Illuminati lose the Godfather, they simply lose.

No, a Consig killing an Illuminati GF remains anti-Illuminati. (it wouldn't make sense if killing someone to pursue his wincon would change his wincon, anyways)

No it doesnt. I was just making sure, im glad you have the right view there.

Any thought to Conspiracy Theorist? I like the idea of a sort of self aware role, but right now hes just a lurking role, which seriously doesnt seem like your goal.

[Slaol]

My intention is that he should not be safe claiming right away. I was hoping I had given enough tools for town to consider lynching him if they felt like they were in Setup A and didn't have any leads, and I wanted him to have a vest so he felt like he could lurk and then scumside. In setup B, he's basically just a town role, and he's in a good place there. It's just setup A I'd worry about, so I'll look into it some more.

I had considered making him a "setup guesser" win condition before, but I couldn't find a way to do that that actually encouraged him to play/post.

I mean, town shouldnt lynch him cause he shouldnt do anything in the game.

I really think finding a setup guessing process would be good, thematic and forces him to be involved, which currnetly he just isnt

[BananaCucho]

/pre-sign

[deathworlds]

I like my illuminati themed setup better >:(

[deathworlds]

Can Mason be one of the hidden roles?

[BananaCucho]

I like my illuminati themed setup better >

Why not both >)o.o)^

[Slaol]

I will /pre-sign, but i really think Conspiracy Theorist needs work

[deathworlds]

I request that both this setup and my "Election Day" setup be ran at the same time!

[MattZed]

I mean, town shouldnt lynch him cause he shouldnt do anything in the game.

I really think finding a setup guessing process would be good, thematic and forces him to be involved, which currnetly he just isnt

I actually imagined him more as an Illuminati-overthrower, who may or may not be sane. I don't want him to just find out if he's right; I want him to help kill the Illuminati as well. Balance wise, the missing role in Setup A that makes the most sense is a survivor, which is what he is. Would you say that you're against survivors in setups in general, or against this one in particular?

My idea for "why should town kill him?" was that he has a gun, which could really change, say, a 4v2v1 situation. I've also considered having him flip scummy to sheriffs, which is part of why I also want an SK-normal and SK-Illuminati setup.

One mechanic I had considered was giving him the ability to "recant." If we're in setup A, he instantly wins. If in setup B, he loses, even if Illuminati dies at the end.

Can Mason be one of the hidden roles?

My intention is that they cannot. I'm still mulling over letting there be extra masons who share a mason chat with illuminati masons if they exist, but I'll update the OP to reflect that masons can't random at this point.

I request that both this setup and my "Election Day" setup be ran at the same time!

I am not opposed to this.

[MattZed]

I've thought it over some more, and now I'm favoring adding the 'recant' mechanic to the Conspiracy Theorist. If he recants in Setup B, he loses for giving up on his true theories. (probably resulting in a kill that night; I'm not yet sure how to make sure his death isn't a clue there is an illuminati, or if I should just be fine with this) If he recants in Setup A, however, he becomes schizophrenic (becoming an amnesiac), suicidal (becoming a jester), or withdrawn (becoming a survivor).

Thoughts? I like that it makes it harder to win (no inactive lurking to victory for this neut) and involves him actually deciding if there is an Illuminati.

[Slaol]

That works, its a bit more convuluted, but so are conspiracy theories. It stays thematic though which is the main goal.

I wouldnt say im against Survivors in any way. But i am infinitely against Survivors that think they arent just survivors. I had a Survivor in all 3 of my Avatar series games. They had the option to sit and lurk, or to solo win by playing the game mechanics properly. Even in the case of having the chance to solo win the only one that won just claimed early and waited for victory.

I dont mind the role at all, but the surviving until end of game isnt a very dynamic one, and shouldnt be applied to dynamic roles and mechanics.

[Hypersniper]

NO NO NO U CAN NOT HAVE A ILLUMINATI SETUP WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THE ILLUMINATI, IN ALL CASES THE FREEMASONS HAD NO DIRECT CORRELATION TO THE ILLUMINATI AND SINCE THE ILLUMINATI IS CONTROLLED VIA WORLD LEADERS I FIND IT UNETHICAL TO POST SUCH SETUP AND NOT BE A THEORIST YOURSELF >

[MattZed]

Added Survivor, Amnesiac, and Jester. Looking for more feedback on the Conspiracy Theorist and on whether I should add more possible setups.

Also added a little bit of RP.

NO NO NO U CAN NOT HAVE A ILLUMINATI SETUP WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THE ILLUMINATI, IN ALL CASES THE FREEMASONS HAD NO DIRECT CORRELATION TO THE ILLUMINATI AND SINCE THE ILLUMINATI IS CONTROLLED VIA WORLD LEADERS I FIND IT UNETHICAL TO POST SUCH SETUP AND NOT BE A THEORIST YOURSELF >

Hail Satan? ^)o.o)^

[Firebringer]

Setup C!!!!

Yes!

Have Setup C be completely random in who is illuminati lol, except can't be the masons or the godfather.

[Slaol]

I think a Setup C with different potential Illuminati is a good idea. Just additional setups in general for sure.

[Hypersniper]

HEREBY ON ORDER OF THE 13 GRAND LEADERS THY SHALL NOT SUBMIT THY GAME OR THY SHALL FACE A FATE WORSE THEN DEATH

[MattZed]

How would anyone feel like a Setup C with 1 SK, 2 Jesters, and 7 town, with a Setup D where the SK and Jesters are actually Illuminati?

I had also been thinking of a setup where the Godfather, rather than the Consig, is Illuminati. This way, a mafia GF doesn't know they're in Setup A. I'm not sure how/if I want to do something similar for the Masons.

[Cryptonic]

And Setup D, where everyone is illuminati and the game is already over but no one knows it

[Firebringer]

And Setup D, where everyone is illuminati and the game is already over but no one knows it

You are pure evil.

[Slaol]

I mean id just throw up many different setups. Why not 7 possible ones? You only use 1 but it makes people think

[Cryptonic]

ILLUMINΔTI

Have a pyramid

[MattZed]

As another "balance" thing, I'm thinking of changing the Conspiracy Theorist's Setup A night-check mechanic. I worry that currently he can check a confirmed non-mason/mafia and then disprove his theory if he gets an Illuminati result. I might make it so positive results are the would-be Illuminati, if one existed.

I mean id just throw up many different setups. Why not 7 possible ones? You only use 1 but it makes people think

My main reason why not is that it's harder to balance a higher number of setups, and I don't want this to be total chaos. I wanted more of a "you can't trust your leaders" feel than a "you don't know who to trust" one. I'm still open to having a few more permutations, but I don't want them too different in flavor from what I have here. While they don't make a lot of sense in 2-scum games, I was thinking of a permutation that includes a mayor who may or may not be part of the Illuminati.

ILLUMINΔTI

Have a pyramid

*has pyramid* I hope Greek speakers aren't peeved.

Also, I accept your pre-sign

[Orpz]

My first impression is that Setup A is so town favored that it is not reasonable for you to run that one, making it obvious which setup is being run. 2 man Mafia vs essentially Town and friend, except the Town has Masons.

[DarknessB]

I want to play this setup -- can someone host?

And Setup D, where everyone is illuminati and the game is already over but no one knows it

[MattZed]

My first impression is that Setup A is so town favored that it is not reasonable for you to run that one, making it obvious which setup is being run. 2 man Mafia vs essentially Town and friend, except the Town has Masons.

It was understanding that 7v2v1 was considered the usual "balance" around here for 10-player games, but I can run 6v3v1 if that seems better. 3 Mafia could give me more opportunities for permutations of who's in the Illuminati, but I was predicting 6v3v1 to be far too pro-mafia to be fair.

[Slaol]

7/2/1 is best. I support the mayor thing, and while more setups is chaotic it can be a benefit if you make then the correct setups

[MattZed]

Additional Setups have been added. Thoughts on these new ones and what new ones could be added would be appreciated.

[Firebringer]

Additional Setups have been added. Thoughts on these new ones and what new ones could be added would be appreciated.

Looks good, I think having a mayor in this setup with only 2 mafia is very over powered though . . . .but given the WIFOM could definitely work.

I like how once you figure out if there is or isn't a mayor in the setup the amount of variability in the setups drops down to just 3 from 6. This might give the mayor a little too much advantage in the beginning. . . .

[MattZed]

Looks good, I think having a mayor in this setup with only 2 mafia is very over powered though . . . .but given the WIFOM could definitely work.

I like how once you figure out if there is or isn't a mayor in the setup the amount of variability in the setups drops down to just 3 from 6. This might give the mayor a little too much advantage in the beginning. . . .

I agree that the mayor has it too easy; they know which setup they're in! I am open to suggestions for how to screw over the mayor. Right now, I am hoping the possible lack of trust in them would be good enough, but I doubt it is. (How much of a reason does a Conspiracy Theorist have to NOT shoot a revealed Mayor?)

[Firebringer]

Disregarding mayor for a second, for setup C I would change it so only 1 of the masons is Illuminati. One of the hidden towns is Illuminati instead.

[MattZed]

Disregarding mayor for a second, for setup C I would change it so only 1 of the masons is Illuminati. One of the hidden towns is Illuminati instead.

I can see an argument for this, since the Illuminati can't control the Mafia kill anymore. This means I'll have to make more Illuminati rolecards, though. I worry that if any role can be potentially Illuminati, I'll have crossed the line into "paranoid chaos."

Discuss if this would be a good thing or bad thing.

[MattZed]

I've now made Setup C have a Hidden Illuminati and a Town mason sharing a night chat with the Illuminati Mason. I didn't think it would be fair to have an Illuminati Vig, though, so Vig remains the only non-Illuminati-able role.

[ika]

i would just have illuminati be an addon then an entire rolecard

[Stealthbomber16]

Mayor is illuminati in 2/3 of the setups he's in, making him super underpowered due to the sheer scare factor that an illuminati would be running the town.

[MattZed]

i would just have illuminati be an addon then an entire rolecard

I can't quite do that because there are some rolecards I want to be different; I need the mafia consig to be able to kill a godfather, but an Illuminati one can't. A sheriff doesn't make sense as Illuminati, since they already know the mafia, so I made him detect exact role.

Mayor is illuminati in 2/3 of the setups he's in, making him super underpowered due to the sheer scare factor that an illuminati would be running the town.

This is by design. I like this mechanic.

[Orpz]

Now that your other game is finished, I can begin another round of review on this setup and approve it in a reasonable amount of time.

There's a lot of setups though so it'll probably take me until after work to start.

Setup A is a town steamroll. Masons prevent Mafia from taking control of day chat and the Mafia night chat will be filled with paranoia, which gimps their coordination. Setup D is slightly more winnable but the numbers have it stacked against the Mafia

To the illermernerty, the lone Mafia represents one of the greatest threats to them, as he can cull one of their main members. But it's very easy to dispose of him since they already know his identity. Is this intended?

[Orpz]

Bump. I think a good place to start would be with Setups A and D.

[MattZed]

Now that your other game is finished, I can begin another round of review on this setup and approve it in a reasonable amount of time.

There's a lot of setups though so it'll probably take me until after work to start.

Setup A is a town steamroll. Masons prevent Mafia from taking control of day chat and the Mafia night chat will be filled with paranoia, which gimps their coordination. Setup D is slightly more winnable but the numbers have it stacked against the Mafia

To the illermernerty, the lone Mafia represents one of the greatest threats to them, as he can cull one of their main members. But it's very easy to dispose of him since they already know his identity. Is this intended?

My plan was to balance setups with the hidden roles, and I already planned, but not publicly shared, how many power roles I would put in each setup. Or are you saying that A and D are too hard to Mafia, even if every hidden is a cit?

[DarknessB]

Despite the one-time vest and one-shot gun, Conspiracy Theorist has a very difficult wincon. Basically needs the Illuminati to be eliminated (or not exist in the first place), recant, and then win as another role with that role's separate wincon. Also, information in the non-Illuminati setups is unreliable so it would be difficult to know when to recant. I might suggest giving him an alternate win condition of survive until the end of the game OR if you recant, win as your new role's wincon. Survival isn't necessarily going to be that easy either given the different factions.

[MattZed]

Despite the one-time vest and one-shot gun, Conspiracy Theorist has a very difficult wincon. Basically needs the Illuminati to be eliminated (or not exist in the first place), recant, and then win as another role with that role's separate wincon. Also, information in the non-Illuminati setups is unreliable so it would be difficult to know when to recant. I might suggest giving him an alternate win condition of survive until the end of the game OR if you recant, win as your new role's wincon. Survival isn't necessarily going to be that easy either given the different factions.

I've designed the non-Illuminati setup to give him some clues, such as if he checks role that would be in the Illuminati (mayor, mason) and it comes up as not being in it.

I actually think survival is a relatively easy goal if he has to claim his role; after all, if there is a conspiracy, he's one of the strongest anti-Illuminati forces, and that chance alone may keep him alive.

[Orpz]

My plan was to balance setups with the hidden roles, and I already planned, but not publicly shared, how many power roles I would put in each setup. Or are you saying that A and D are too hard to Mafia, even if every hidden is a cit?

For setup A, even if every hidden role was a citizen I'd think it's too hard still. Masons are insanely powerful in this small setup.

[MattZed]

My plan was to balance setups with the hidden roles, and I already planned, but not publicly shared, how many power roles I would put in each setup. Or are you saying that A and D are too hard to Mafia, even if every hidden is a cit?

Orpz, I can drop a hidden town and make this a 9P game. I think I might also make the Godfather's kill a sanitize+kill, with the Godfather being told the role of who they cleaned.

Beyond that, I kinda have to ask you to trust me that I will balance this in the hidden roles.

[MattZed]

For setup A, even if every hidden role was a citizen I'd think it's too hard still. Masons are insanely powerful in this small setup.

All due respect, but I think most around here would consider 2 Masons+5 Cits vs 2 Mafia vs 1 Neut to be a little more scumsided than your usual S-FM.

[MattZed]

Orpz, I can drop a hidden town and make this a 9P game. I think I might also make the Godfather's kill a sanitize+kill, with the Godfather being told the role of who they cleaned.

I am a man of my word and have done these things. Now that I think about it, I may just make this a no-role reveal game. Looking for feedback from Orpz before making further modifications.

[Orpz]

For setup E, I'm a little concerned about the power of the Illuminati faction. It's 3v6, but they start off with majority since Mayor gets a total of 3 votes. Of course, that is a high risk play so it's not necessarily game breaking.

All in all, I can trust you for these setups.

Approved for signups

[MattZed]

For setup E, I'm a little concerned about the power of the Illuminati faction. It's 3v6, but they start off with majority since Mayor gets a total of 3 votes. Of course, that is a high risk play so it's not necessarily game breaking.

All in all, I can trust you for these setups.

Approved for signups

Hmm... good point. Mayor votes reduced to 2.

I also changed setups D and E to have Hidden Illuminati instead of hidden citizens as part of my behind-the-scenes balancing. Hidden Illuminati can now also be cits.