Woof. You are extreamly slow at refreshing. Woof.
Woof. You are extreamly slow at refreshing. Woof.
Well then. I was not going to chase it here but I read you as experienced as in you have played at least a few games, too much to be this dodgy unintentionally. I read your push on me as hollow and an effort to appear to be scum hunting while fishing for town points. I see you as leaning slightly scummy and am interested to see how you react to a bit of pressure.
-vote M-FM Mal'ganis
And there's the OMGUS. I was wondering how long it would take.
Captain, explain to me how Darlan is town please. Maybe he's deliberately being fake but there's nothing real about his posting so far.
Why explain your scummy actions or even explain how 'faking com leads' relates to alignment when you can just dodge questions. You do realize I am just going to keep poking you until you hit the rest of the towns radar or you take a moment and make some sense.
Mal'Ganis does not feel like town
Woof. M-FM Lordaeron touches people. Woof.
Faking com makes you harder to read. Townies want to be easy to read. I kinda figured this was common sense. There's zero reason to make yourself harder to read.
You can keep poking me but anyone who actually knows me (rather than attempt to impersonate me) knows that I'm aggressive but trying to be more cooperative. So yes, I do want people to explain how you actually are town and how breaking out of RVS is scummy which you certainly are implying is scummy.
To be direct- I never tried to pretend to be you. I have no idea who you are and I have no idea where this idea came from. I consider com hunting a total waste of time because if you are wrong all those 'meta tells' you were playing off have screwed up your read. Also a lot of people seemingly depend on others reading their coms for their defense (Which I find slightly BM.) "If you knew me this is how I play every time I am town." Thats a shitty cop out and half breaks the purpose of having accounts to begin with. If the host wanted com meta he would not have us playing on anons to begin with.
I think you are scummy because you misrepresent what I am saying. You dodge questions and your FoS doesn't look like you put very much thought into it. You seemingly did not even bother to read my answers to your questions and you contradict yourself in your statements.
I try to be open minded. I am not saying "I am certain you are scum". I am just saying some of your behavior sets off alarms for me and the lack of explanation from you as to your thought process behind your comments makes me extremely uncomfortable.
Dalaran, I've asked you what you dodged. You haven't answered me. I don't know what it is I'm not explaining.
You haven't given an explanation for your pointless questions (the journalist is another).
It's incredibly frustrating that I'm trying to have a dialogue and all I'm getting is unexplained conclusions. If you are town, this is not helping and we are having an epic failure of communication.
Depending on the answer you may be able to give a sort of private message to the journalist when he interviews. This would be very useful for things like the journalist confirming himself to that player via code or communicating information you do not want to be public. Such as if you were healed/role blocked some specific night and want that info known to confirm a doc/escort claim down the road.
These are all very useful things you can do with a journalist depending on how the host plays the role.
I agree that we have some communication issues. The rest of the information is in the previous posts.
All theoretically accurate, but it should have been asked pregame. The fact you're just asking now looks like grandstanding. The thread has been open for weeks if not months to elaborate. The journalist question comes to light now, really? It looks like diversionary tactics but maybe I'm on tunnel vision. That's my problem. It's useless baseless setup spec. Plus, we have no way of knowing a journalist even exists.
The biggest thing that gives me pause is scum engaging in that after multiple references to punishing a player for such seem a little foolish and suboptimal for scum.
Honestly, I can totally see where Mal'ganis is coming from and I at the same time I can understand Dalaran's explanations (even if I do not agree with some of his ideas). What I'm seeing here though is a lack of proportionality between the inconsistencies found and the conclusions drawn from them. What I mean is that what you guys are arguing as scummy isn't scummy enough to seriously FoS someone.
This conflict can be solved more easily if you stop posting a lot at once and rather ask a concise question you want answered from the other. It makes it a lot more likely that you will find what you are looking for in the other.
-unvote
I should reflect on this some and today is international table top gaming day. Going out to friends for fun. I will check in periodically but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a day 1 lynch off.
Plaguelands, I'd like you to elaborate on how Dalaran can be town. Even if I was wrong (still don't think I was but I'm more open), let's at least get a town out of this.
Well, I didn't say that whatever he said makes him town, but it doesn't make him scum in my eyes either. He's rather neutral leaning slightly scummy to me. I'll explain.
He is using off-site lingo. We can only draw the conclusion from this that he either slipped and is from another site or he is faking being from another site to be harder to read. It's not a big deal either way.
I agree the question he asked is contradicting the impression you'd get from someone using the word "wolf", namely as you said: This person is new because he cannot draw an obvious answer by himself. Then he does a 180 and starts talking from experience/knowledge, giving off the impression that he has a few games under his belt and therefore formed a solid opinion on how a D1 should look like (an opinion I don't agree with completely but there has always been opposing opinions like this on D1).
This is enough to explain what problem you have with Dalaran because at this point you have put a FoS on him. So why do I not see Dalaran as scummy as you do? It's because the conclusion you can draw from Dalaran's play so far cannot lead to him being scum.
Why would a player fake being new? The obvious answer to me is: He wants to avoid attention by seeming less skilled than he is. Who would want to seem like that? Scum.. and TPRs. Also citizens faking TPRs, if we want to add another WIFOM layer. I wouldn't FoS someone based on that, I'd probably only call him out to that.
Now for another matter: he didn't even succeed at faking being new. As I explained, the opinion he gave looked to be from someone who is experienced. So can we really say that Dalaran tried to fake being new if he didn't even seriously try and failed at this in the very same post he attempted it?
I hope this accurately reflects my view on why Dalaran's behaviour doesn't seem scummy to me up to that point.
Now because you also touched upon it: It is indeed questionable why Dalaran would ask questions now instead of pre-game, especially because the answers to them are not very hard to figure out. They are very simple questions and thinking of them should have happened pre-game. This seems pretty scummy because as you said, it's an attempt to gain easy townpoints (even if not many, I don't award town points like candy, don't know about you guys). Dalaran's defense though is that he wanted to create the norm that asking questions should be normal (if I understood that correctly). While unnecessary because people have always asked questions during games the whole time I've been on this site, I can see where he is coming from and while his defence does not clear him completely in my eyes, I decided to give him the benefit of doubt because it's D1 and the game has just started out.
Conclusion overall: Slightly scummy, nowhere near enough to cast a vote on him. Talking and asking him questions would have sufficed in my eyes. It makes me assume though that Dalaran does not react well to pressure.
Woof. All honestly, I did not read the setup untill the game started. Woof.
I am here now. For some reason I can't help but feel like I got the shit name.
Glad I got in here in time, I doubt there would be modkills on day 1, but you never know.
I try. I am of the belief that D1 is actually useful. On that topic: a debate on debate.org has been brought to my attention where behavioral analysis on D1 was debated and I felt myself agreeing with the pro-advocate. I wonder if I'm allowed to post it.
Am I allowed to post a link leading to debate.org?
If not, try to google it if you are interested in such a thing. Beware though that it's rather lengthy. If my little wall of text made any of you irritated because it was already too long for you, do not bother looking it up.
For the sake of creating activity I'd like to ask people to post what they think of the current situation of Dalaran vs Mal'ganis. And no, it does not have to be as long as my read. I'd just like to see people post as a change of pace. I think fondly of the early FMs where D1 was actually full of activity.
Woof. My think? Woof. You are all being just a bunch of showoffs. Woof.
As I received permission, here is the debate for anyone who cares to take a look: https://www.debate.org/debates/Mafia-...lysis-On-D1/1/
What stops us from claiming our true names and lynching within contested claims?
Also fuck I wish I got someone from Hearthstone
Spoiler : Plaguelands read Quote :
So with everything I have posted your read comes down to: Everything I have done is neutral but because I asked host questions I am slightly scummy? I do like the post though. Its nice to see another player came to actually play instead of trying to float by into the late game.
You could summarize my post like that if you only look at what people do and completely dismiss how they're doing something. Which is kinda stupid. Take scum for example: They will attempt to scumhunt to seem like they're town aligned. It's important for us to figure out how they're doing it to catch them. To use your style of defense they'd say "So everything your read on me boils down to is that I'm scum because I'm trying to scum hunt?"
YES, YESSSS.
- ''FROSTMOURNE HUNGERS''
I agree that how a player goes about something can show motive. But you did not say as much in your read earlier.
Would you say that Mal'ganis intentionally misrepresent my comments, that is it just a communication issue, or that it is his issue with tunnel vision?
Sigh. At this point I don't even know if you're intentionally misrepresenting what someone said or if you just don't notice it yourself. How could you not see that the entire paragraph about you asking the questions was about how you asked them. If it was simply that you were asking questions at all I could dismiss that, but there is more to Mafia than just actions, there's intent and motive.
Now to explain what I mean that you're misrepresenting what people say: For one, Mal'ganis felt that you were twisting his words. Now I hadn't looked at that too closely (because you don't notice straight away when it doesn't happen to you), but you were able to do just that twice in a row with my posts. It's like your whole play so far consists of discrediting people and that's not what a town player should do.
Now for your question, earlier I said that I think this could be resolved by asking concise questions to the other, but I'm fairly confident that when I go through the conversation again I will find the same phenomenom that I've experienced already.
Let's take a look at this early interaction. For context, Mal'ganis has already voted you (a vote that I think came too early based on too little) and given the reason that you are fake. After you asked him for clarification, he explained himself.
I believe that the conclusion you can come to so far, depending on what perspective you have, can very well be the same that Mal'ganis came to in the highlighted part. As I explained in my read, this wouldn't be enough for myself however to push a vote onto you.
In the part I highlighted, you misrepresent what he said. It's not that you're pretending to be from another site. It's that you've made it clear you're from another site and yet asked such a silly question for reasons we can only assume but the ones I can think of do not help your case. Now, you said you wanted to create the norm where asking questions is normal and even somewhat expected. Do you honestly believe that this is how you could make this happen? The question at best helped to clear a confusion. The result is that you wouldn't come close to what you expect, it'd make people ask questions if they're confused.
Your later journalist question was way better suited for this purpose.
In this highlighted part, you misrepresent what he said again. He said that you want to seem knowledgable, not experienced. Yet you said he does. Is being knowledgable the same as being experienced? Not necessarily, depending where you're coming from. You can be knowledgable while being new, not because you play a lot of Mafia but because you have gained this knowledge through one way or another. If he really meant knowledgable as in experienced is something only he can now. If he meant experienced then I can only point to my read and say that yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense for someone pretending to be new to then contradict this image by wanting to show that he's an experienced player.
The rest of the defense in the post I quoted last is okay but still amouns to you trying to discredit him as a player rather than discrediting his arguments. One might think they're the same thing but I believe there's a difference.
Now for you saying he is misrepresenting what you said, please give me some quotes. I can only see that you're very obviously misrepresenting what others are saying but I'm having a harder time finding where Mal'ganis does the same to you.
I saw the paragraph. It contains you talking about what my motives could be. It does not talk about 'how' I went about this. It skips the how and cuts to the read in most respects. I do not feel that in any way I misrepresented what you said there. My response was to suggest that the read makes more sense with that additional information.
This is moderately obnoxious and would not be an issue at all if people were not com hunting. I am not from another site. Let that be the end of that. I guess there is a bold line between trolling and pointing things out that can not be blurred.
I wanted conversation and I have it. I am rather happy with all the discussion that has come from an odd host question. We could after all still be laughing about the origin of our names right now.
Because I substituted the word experienced for knowledgeable I am twisting his words? Honestly. Read his post. Its the same message either way. If you are going to be that technical its going to be a very long game and you will find such issues in every interaction. I do not feel that I twisted his message in the slightest and I am surprised you do not see this as him twisting my words. He said I am trying to appear that I am new and he also said I am trying to appear I am knowledgeable. You would have to amend the way you view the intention of my post to something really strange in order to make any sense of that. I would sooner call it a contradiction because that makes sense to me. Its a logical conclusion that fits. And if you read through the posts and came to this conclusion I will just take your answer as you do not see him manipulating my words at all.
I agree that there is a very big difference and I do not believe I cut to character assassination at any point. The closest thing I have said is "It is poor form to make demands after dodging questions though." I pointed out that his original FoS was weak which is something you agree with. And I pointed out that he is manipulating my words which you disagree with. Neither of these things discredits him as a player any more than you are discrediting me as a player here. Its an attack on the argument presented and not on the player making it.
You've also said I have dodged questions multiple times, and implied that was scum motivated. I asked you what questions I missed, and you have yet to respond. Also, such behavior is very unlikely to be scum motivated. Scum have no incentive to miss questions at all because it removes their opportunity to persuade others that they are town.
Substituting my words for a word that is easier to discredit is scummy. Appearing knowledgable and experienced are two totally separate things. Appearing knowledgable engenders a feeling of trust to get people to follow you because this guy knows what he's doing. It's a pretty common scum tactic.
Appearing experienced on the other hand obviously is not alignment indicative. That also makes someone a threat to every opposing faction in the game. It is something that rarely helps out anyon in an anonymous com game with no PR information out.
I am also interested in hearing your response to #92 for the section where I have supposedly misrepresented you.
Finally, when I also want D1 to be useful, the slightest thing scummy can be used for a serious vote. A wagon should develop on that player. It is frustrating that players still want to troll around when Day 1 has the closest thing to a natural state and scum cannot fashion a narrative to the game
I will respond in a little while. I found that they leaked 4 episodes of the new Game of Thrones : ). 2 left
I did not respond yesterday because I felt like you were really getting frustrated. When I was pushing I did not really notice there could be somewhat of a language barrier and I felt somewhat guilty for it.
You two have completely taken the spotlight
With "how" I mean the way someone is doing something. For me, that would be how you are asking the question (as opposed to only the what: you are asking the question). This includes for me: What your question is, what your motive could be for asking this specific question. I am of the belief that I already talked about these things in my read. As such I disagree that I did not mention the "how" in my read.
You can even find tells in trolling believe it or not and I am of the belief that anything said in a FM is said intentionally. This obviously then leads to the question of the use of the word "wolf" so it's natural that this would strike people as odd, however annoying you find that. It's not about COM hunting, it's about finding out the motive for using an uncommon word.This is moderately obnoxious and would not be an issue at all if people were not com hunting. I am not from another site. Let that be the end of that. I guess there is a bold line between trolling and pointing things out that can not be blurred.
In the end however the fact remains that Mal'ganis feels like you misrepresented what he was saying. You could've asked him how you had done so, I'm sure the dialogue between you two could've been more constructive that way. What I saw was that you tried getting answers from him to some vague question and it was not clear to me if it was hidden inbetween one of the posts or if you just wanted answers to some specific accusations and I for one had no clue what question you were referring to when you asked him repeatedly and even told him you wouldn't let the matter drop. But maybe I'm the odd one here in that regard, this specific aspect is not a big deal to me either way though, keep in mind that if you want clear answers you need to ask clear questions.Because I substituted the word experienced for knowledgeable I am twisting his words? Honestly. Read his post. Its the same message either way. If you are going to be that technical its going to be a very long game and you will find such issues in every interaction. I do not feel that I twisted his message in the slightest and I am surprised you do not see this as him twisting my words. He said I am trying to appear that I am new and he also said I am trying to appear I am knowledgeable. You would have to amend the way you view the intention of my post to something really strange in order to make any sense of that. I would sooner call it a contradiction because that makes sense to me. Its a logical conclusion that fits. And if you read through the posts and came to this conclusion I will just take your answer as you do not see him manipulating my words at all.
It is the tone however that makes me think that it is more of discrediting the player with some arguments though, especially one of your early arguments that his accusation boils down to you pretending to be a new player is why you're scum (and I already argued that I think this is not really accurate from my POV). It aims to make the player in question seem "dumb" for his actions if you didn't realize. There were some who agreed with you, people who haven't done jack shit this game I might add and these will see Mal'ganis automatically as the weak side throughout the dialogue without even giving a thought of their own. If I had name what you did with one word, I'd say "manipulation".
Yes Lord but it was not my intention. I expected my vote to break us out of RVS and have everyone start engaging in the thread rather than spamming. Instead, when I tried to pull others into to have a more dynamic discussion I got nothing.
I am pretty sure Plague is town from his responses. Given his dialogue contributions, I don't expect to be voting him unless there is a cult or cop guilty. His actions are trying to stop what he sees as a TvT fight or at least has a decent possibility. Because I am unlikely to get a lynch there because LOL day 1, I am giving Plaguelands wideroom to see what he uncovers. I think he's wrong but it is important not to get so caught up in our own opinions being right.