Day 1: The Awakening

[FM Spy]

I would also expect to see quite a few citizen secondary roles on the PR's and probably an executioner or two.

Read the FAQ. Citizen can only be a primary role, not a secondary role. And all secondary roles share the wincon of the initial role.

[FM Raiden]

Hi I am free today. I will use that chance to read the set up I should've read like weeks ago

[FM Gerik]

Anyone want to jump on a Ganondorf toh post train?

[FM Rumpel]

Fair enough, just trying to get discussion. Not much happens around this time of day. I do agree Gerik imo is townier and I don't like how hard Ozy tunneled on Gerik. On day 1.

-unvote

you laid off way too fast, doesn't make sense.
His response was not even good to begin with.

I mean, "Gerik is townier because he want to create conflict while ozy is jusy tunnel visioning"? Gerik claimed that himself too and I believe nobody will go around and be like "HEY I HAVE AN OPINION THAT MAYBE JUST MAYBE THE GUY WHO IS TUNNEL VISIONING AND POSTING A LOT TO SEEM PRO TOWN ISNT VERY TOWN"

[FM Rumpel]

And my thoughts are those who are for a lynch with zero physical evidence and only best guesses are scum.

and my thoughts are that we have very decent chance to hit scum, take zack and monster for example.

You guys need to realize that random lynching isn't picking one people randomly ala "3/27 chance".

[FM Ozymandias]

Anyone want to jump on a Ganondorf toh post train?

You had me at [QUOTE=FM GERIK;467856].

But srsly, I would like to see Ganondorf (and NorthStar, and Raiden, and AscendedOne) post the correct Toph post. Then, the only non-Toph'd people would be the ones with 0 posts.

@Rumpel: You're focusing on lurkers. Guess who lurks (other than scum)? Town power roles not wanting to draw attention to themselves. Or Citizens who are just too busy to post.

Day 1 lynch is unnecessarily risky when we have no real leads. The people hellbent on pushing one through are pretty suspicious (though maybe not as suspicious as some others).

[FM Gerik]

Nice to see you everyone! I'm your host FM Ganondorf and its time to start our game of LYNCH OR NO LYNCH!

A lynch gives us a role flip as well as the train that was on them. It takes away a player who - if lurker gives us next to nothing, and if active hurts the town.

A nonlynch leaves the role flip to the nights kills and has no train information.

My perfect situation for d1 would be a bunch of almost lynches. Best of both worlds. Also its rubbish to say we will have tpr info tomorow.

And

-vote fm ganondorf

[FM Rumpel]

See: massive wall of text if you want to know what I was thinking. Mostly the bits where he said he wasn't being illogical / contradicting himself, when he very definitely was.



Eh; I was a bit annoyed. Part of it was being in an airport/plane for about 12 hours yesterday coupled with his stubborn refusal.



Sweet relief!

Well, I'm satisfied (for now):

-unvote

Eh; I'm not really destroying much in the way on context for those bits. You were constantly flip flopping on the high activity / low activity / "medium activity" and your statistics for a random lynch.



It worked! xD

I'll buy that as a reason for the trolly vibe you gave off yesterday, but only because it's day 1. Please, please, pretty please don't do that once we start getting, you know, real information and results.



Adorable! But a bit late to the party, no? Why spend all the effort on the Truthseer stuff (a method that turns Truthseer into a Sheriff) if it would only bite me in the ass as scum? Further reinforces my thoughts on day 1 - finding scum based on grammar or who keeps a list doesn't work.

you typed like what, 2000 words for this?

I don't think I can see YOUR logic behind trying so hard to read someone as scum and then backing off one post later.

Quoting your own words, your posts aren't logical

[FM Ozymandias]

you typed like what, 2000 words for this?

I don't think I can see YOUR logic behind trying so hard to read someone as scum and then backing off one post later.

Quoting your own words, your posts aren't logical

1600 words, actually.

And 8/16 posts for you have actively and explicitly encouraged a random lynch, constantly flip flopping on the target. You're desperate for blood today, regardless of who it is. That makes me uncomfortable.

Also, please write up a 2000 word post where you explain how my posts have been illogical. So far, I've:

1) Encouraged people to make a post that will allow a Town Power Role to catch scum

2) Kept records of who didn't make those posts and what everyone's overall activity is

3) Pretty clearly explained why I felt suspicious about certain people (unless the 1600+ words wasn't clear enough for you)

4) Explained MULTIPLE times why I'm against a random lynch based on no evidence.

So please point out the bits where I wasn't logical.

[FM Gerik]

-unvote

Found his post. There really is no wiggle room in there.. He just said "I too am part of the gaang"

[FM MrSmarter]

you laid off way too fast, doesn't make sense.
His response was not even good to begin with.

I mean, "Gerik is townier because he want to create conflict while ozy is jusy tunnel visioning"? Gerik claimed that himself too and I believe nobody will go around and be like "HEY I HAVE AN OPINION THAT MAYBE JUST MAYBE THE GUY WHO IS TUNNEL VISIONING AND POSTING A LOT TO SEEM PRO TOWN ISNT VERY TOWN"

I laid off because at first I posted that in the morning and didn't realize it was new years until later and secondly he has started talking more. It still is day one and i'm still against a lynch. I'll see how he talks on day 2.

[FM Rumpel]

1600 words, actually.

And 8/16 posts for you have actively and explicitly encouraged a random lynch, constantly flip flopping on the target. You're desperate for blood today, regardless of who it is. That makes me uncomfortable.

Also, please write up a 2000 word post where you explain how my posts have been illogical. So far, I've:

1) Encouraged people to make a post that will allow a Town Power Role to catch scum

2) Kept records of who didn't make those posts and what everyone's overall activity is

3) Pretty clearly explained why I felt suspicious about certain people (unless the 1600+ words wasn't clear enough for you)

4) Explained MULTIPLE times why I'm against a random lynch based on no evidence.

So please point out the bits where I wasn't logical.

the 'bits' where you typed a wall of text about why gerik is scummy and then pretended like it never happened

[FM Rumpel]

I laid off because at first I posted that in the morning and didn't realize it was new years until later and secondly he has started talking more. It still is day one and i'm still against a lynch. I'll see how he talks on day 2.

fair enough

jk I laid off too fast

no srsly fair enough

[FM MrSmarter]

S
Sweet relief!

Well, I'm satisfied (for now):

-unvote

I'm just wondering why you did an entire wall just to get Gerik to pretty much say he is part of the Gaang. All of your pressure was for that pretty much and you unvote right after he does that one phrase.

[FM Yayap]

-unvote

Found his post. There really is no wiggle room in there.. He just said "I too am part of the gaang"

I have a problem with the "too" because he can say "The person above me must be scum so that explains why the truthseer said I was lying."

[FM Ozymandias]

the 'bits' where you typed a wall of text about why gerik is scummy and then pretended like it never happened

I never said that he isn't scummy. Christ, read the post again. xD

I'm just wondering why you did an entire wall just to get Gerik to pretty much say he is part of the Gaang. All of your pressure was for that pretty much and you unvote right after he does that one phrase.

I never said he is part of the Gaang.

The wall of text bit I posted because I said I would - Yayap asked me to explain why I felt Gerik was being scummy. I said I'd go through and carefully look at all of his posts, type up my notes, and post them. I said it right here:

I'll do a full write up of all his posts with quotes when I'm on my laptop again. Sticking to shorter posts and no bb code cause phone.

But it really doesn't matter on day 1. I could analyze any post as anti or pro town and make my own narrative. Without leads, it means nothing. Day 1 scumhunting is dumb for that reason. Gerik could be doing some idiot Claw gambit because he thinks he's hot shit, and only wind up derailimg the game. That's most likely theory now that I think about it.

Then, on a seven hour flight, I went through and reread everything he posted and typed up my notes. I posted them pretty much without editing (I've explained this before).

And in that post, I pretty clearly say that I'm not going to pass judgement on his alignment based on zero real information, but that his actions are contradictory and illogical.

And considering he said that he was acting that way to rile me up earlier today, and considering that I said I'd unvote him if he did the proper Toph check, I unvoted him.

I seriously don't get where the ambiguity here is. Did you read the wall of text, or just the red part?

I say it right here (relevant words highlighted in red, since that's what people apparently read):

I stand by what I said several times, by the way. I don’t necessarily think Gerik is Mafia/evil neutral. I think it’s likely that he’s a Citizen, has a huge ego, and is trying to pull some weird gambit that he thinks will single handedly win the game on day 1.

And again here:

The biggest takeaway, though, is that Gerik is someone to keep an eye on. He’s not playing logically, which is going to wind up hurting town. It’d be really nice if he just made the damn Truthseer post, since I’ve spent a good chunk of my flight reading his posts now.

I never said let's lynch Gerik. In fact, I've been ardently against random lynching on day 1 since the first page. I never said Gerik is scum. I've only ever given my impressions on how he is acting - I don't speculate about alignment with zero information, on the first day of the game, prior to ANY night actions.

Acting scummy =/= being scum. Gerik acted scummy yesterday (apparently to try to piss me off and bait me, at least according to him in this post. Quote below to make it easier for you guys).

To be fair I went out of my way to stir you up. I feel like your frustration heavily shaded these "contradictions" you are drawing out.

Please don't put words in my mouth, and please actually read the posts I make (especially the super long one that took forever to write up).

[FM Ozymandias]

I have a problem with the "too" because he can say "The person above me must be scum so that explains why the truthseer said I was lying."

I have a problem with the fact that it's not the same as what everyone else posted. Srsly not that hard to just all post the same thing so that there is ZERO ambiguity or wiggle room. Isn't that kinda the point of this whole Truthseer strat?

[FM Zack]

I have a problem with the fact that it's not the same as what everyone else posted. Srsly not that hard to just all post the same thing so that there is ZERO ambiguity or wiggle room. Isn't that kinda the point of this whole Truthseer strat?

Yes but getting overly frustrated over a minor detail that as I said previously most likely won't be that significant to the game other than potentiallycatching one or two scum is not logical. Especially when it consumes so much time.

You wasted all that time trying to attack Gerik and then he says one simple line and you back off.

[FM Ganondorf]

Why do I have this horrible feeling of Deja Vu?

[FM Slaol]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Slaol]

Feeling like I just wasted 45 minutes of my life reading all of the previous posts.

[FM Zack]

Feeling like I just wasted 45 minutes of my life reading all of the previous posts.

You get FM Slaol and you don't give yourself an Avi that says "GREATEST MVC EVER" ???

[FM Ozymandias]

Yes but getting overly frustrated over a minor detail that as I said previously most likely won't be that significant to the game other than potentiallycatching one or two scum is not logical. Especially when it consumes so much time.

You wasted all that time trying to attack Gerik and then he says one simple line and you back off.

I wasn't attacking him. I was trying to get him to post that one simple line. I wasn't the only one, if I recall. o.0

Why do I have this horrible feeling of Deja Vu?

You and me, both. xD

I'm just going to start linking the previous posts where I explained all this shite already.

[FM Zack]

I wasn't attacking him. I was trying to get him to post that one simple line. I wasn't the only one, if I recall. o.0



You and me, both. xD

I'm just going to start linking the previous posts where I explained all this shite already.

I'm still on the subject of Gerik since I wasn't here when it was taking place. I'm merely commenting on it.

[FM Zack]

I'm still on the subject of Gerik since I wasn't here when it was taking place. I'm merely commenting on it.

You know, the part with 1600 words where you were throwing stuff everywhere?

[FM Slaol]

You get FM Slaol and you don't give yourself an Avi that says "GREATEST MVC EVER" ???

wtf is a slaol

[FM Ozymandias]

You know, the part with 1600 words where you were throwing stuff everywhere?

Sigh.

@Gerik: I voted you because so far, your posts aren't really that logical. You seem to be pushing for a lynch (or at least stirring up trouble) on a day when doing so doesn't really add anything to the game (other than confusion). And to top it off, you still refuse to post six words that would allow a town power role to clear you. All that adds up to a pressure vote which I'll gladly rescind if you simply take five seconds to, to quote Varrick, "do the thing" that everyone else is doing - make the proper Toph post.

Crim, appreciate the vote of confidence, but it's wiser to reserve judgement or declerations of innocence or guilt until after day 1. For all you know, I'm a clever scum. And Gerik's scummimess may be a function of many things - even simple inexperience. We'll know more tomorrow no doubt.

In my book, (Gerik) being anti town doesn't necessarily equal scummy. Can you please go into more detail why you view Gerik as scummy?

I'll do a full write up of all his posts with quotes when I'm on my laptop again. Sticking to shorter posts and no bb code cause phone.

But it really doesn't matter on day 1. I could analyze any post as anti or pro town and make my own narrative. Without leads, it means nothing. Day 1 scumhunting is dumb for that reason. Gerik could be doing some idiot Claw gambit because he thinks he's hot shit, and only wind up derailimg the game. That's most likely theory now that I think about it.

Here is promised full write up:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467764

Nay. Troll day isn't for random lynches OR dumb, risky gambits.

Yayap, I'll have to check, but the only person who jumps out at me other than Gerik was whoever was being all buddy-buddy with me earlier. On my phone again taxing home. And my point with gerik was never that he IS scum. Just that his behavior is odd and distracting regardless of alignment. Distracting town = hurting them. I still think day 1 is always a wash in FM.

You had me at [QUOTE=FM GERIK;467856].

But srsly, I would like to see Ganondorf (and NorthStar, and Raiden, and AscendedOne) post the correct Toph post. Then, the only non-Toph'd people would be the ones with 0 posts.

@Rumpel: You're focusing on lurkers. Guess who lurks (other than scum)? Town power roles not wanting to draw attention to themselves. Or Citizens who are just too busy to post.

Day 1 lynch is unnecessarily risky when we have no real leads. The people hellbent on pushing one through are pretty suspicious (though maybe not as suspicious as some others).

And finally:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467869

I hope this clarifies why I:

1) Voted for Gerik
2) Posted the big wall of text
3) Unvoted

Further posts asking these questions yet again will be answered with a link here.

[FM Zack]

Sigh.









Here is promised full write up:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467764







And finally:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467869

I hope this clarifies why I:

1) Voted for Gerik
2) Posted the big wall of text
3) Unvoted

Further posts asking these questions yet again will be answered with a link here.

It still seems like an awful lot of effort for one little, mostly insignificant line. But, meh.

[FM Ozymandias]

It still seems like an awful lot of effort for one little, mostly insignificant line. But, meh.

I was on a seven hour flight, my iPod is broken, and I had every tab of this FM open. What else was I supposed to do?

[FM Zack]

I was on a seven hour flight, my iPod is broken, and I had every tab of this FM open. What else was I supposed to do?

Well, if you're like me and think scumhunting D1 is useless, why bother trying to scum hunt or call someone out on day one? All it can do is potentially reveal a TPR. If we were to magically get a scum I would be seriously impressed. I'm simply waiting for day two. I mean, I'm taking notes, but nothing public.

[FM Zack]

Well, if you're like me and think scumhunting D1 is useless, why bother trying to scum hunt or call someone out on day one? All it can do is potentially reveal a TPR. If we were to magically get a scum I would be seriously impressed. I'm simply waiting for day two. I mean, I'm taking notes, but nothing public.

Scratch that. Not completely useless, just that it normally ends up being wrong.

[FM Ozymandias]

Well, if you're like me and think scumhunting D1 is useless, why bother trying to scum hunt or call someone out on day one? All it can do is potentially reveal a TPR. If we were to magically get a scum I would be seriously impressed. I'm simply waiting for day two. I mean, I'm taking notes, but nothing public.

The nice thing about this FM is that there is something useful town can do on day 1. Something that helps power roles find scum. And are you really asking me why I made the 1600+ word post again? xD

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467883

[FM Zack]

The nice thing about this FM is that there is something useful town can do on day 1. Something that helps power roles find scum. And are you really asking me why I made the 1600+ word post again? xD

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post467883

More of a rhetorical question.

[FM Rumpel]

Well, if you're like me and think scumhunting D1 is useless, why bother trying to scum hunt or call someone out on day one? All it can do is potentially reveal a TPR. If we were to magically get a scum I would be seriously impressed. I'm simply waiting for day two. I mean, I'm taking notes, but nothing public.

blendblendblendblendblendblendblendblend
blendblendblendblendblendblendblendblend
blendblendblendblendblendblendingnotbending

[FM Zack]

blendblendblendblendblendblendblendblend
blendblendblendblendblendblendblendblend
blendblendblendblendblendblendingnotbending

Strong argument.

[FM Rumpel]

I never said that he isn't scummy. Christ, read the post again. xD



I never said he is part of the Gaang.

The wall of text bit I posted because I said I would - Yayap asked me to explain why I felt Gerik was being scummy. I said I'd go through and carefully look at all of his posts, type up my notes, and post them. I said it right here:



Then, on a seven hour flight, I went through and reread everything he posted and typed up my notes. I posted them pretty much without editing (I've explained this before).

And in that post, I pretty clearly say that I'm not going to pass judgement on his alignment based on zero real information, but that his actions are contradictory and illogical.

And considering he said that he was acting that way to rile me up earlier today, and considering that I said I'd unvote him if he did the proper Toph check, I unvoted him.

I seriously don't get where the ambiguity here is. Did you read the wall of text, or just the red part?

I say it right here (relevant words highlighted in red, since that's what people apparently read):



And again here:



I never said let's lynch Gerik. In fact, I've been ardently against random lynching on day 1 since the first page. I never said Gerik is scum. I've only ever given my impressions on how he is acting - I don't speculate about alignment with zero information, on the first day of the game, prior to ANY night actions.

Acting scummy =/= being scum. Gerik acted scummy yesterday (apparently to try to piss me off and bait me, at least according to him in this post. Quote below to make it easier for you guys).



Please don't put words in my mouth, and please actually read the posts I make (especially the super long one that took forever to write up).

I'm a simple guy who simply believes that there is simply no point in analysing someone's post day 1 to conclude that he is most likely citizen

[FM Slaol]

What is a Slaol?

[FM FalseTruth]

What is a Slaol?

One of the mods.

[FM Zack]

A being beyond comprehension

Fix'd.

[FM Ozymandias]

I'm a simple guy who simply believes that there is simply no point in analysing someone's post day 1 to conclude that he is most likely citizen

Eh; your problem, not mine. xD

[FM philie]

So. Many words have been typed. Understandable, some people are really wheezy stubborn.

Talking about Wiggle Room. Isn't the statement "I am part of the Gaang" a bit wiggly. Depending on how people use the word "Part". If you see the opposition as part of the gaang, because it needs an opposition to exist to cause The Gaang to gather. Dosn't that mean that The Fire Nation and its actions are a part of The Gaang?

Just a thought?

Anywho. Still need people to post the damn thing don't we?

[FM Ozymandias]

So. Many words have been typed. Understandable, some people are really wheezy stubborn.

Talking about Wiggle Room. Isn't the statement "I am part of the Gaang" a bit wiggly. Depending on how people use the word "Part". If you see the opposition as part of the gaang, because it needs an opposition to exist to cause The Gaang to gather. Dosn't that mean that The Fire Nation and its actions are a part of The Gaang?

Just a thought?

Anywho. Still need people to post the damn thing don't we?

Eh; I originally suggested, "My primary role's alignment is town" but the Gaang bit was what caught on. I think I am part of the Gaang is fairly unambiguous though; I can't see the mods looking at a Mafia post of that and saying that it's true. Especially since the role list makes it very clear that "The Gaang" = town and "Fire Nation" = Mafia.

[FM philie]

I'm more focused on the word "Part" than "The Gaang". The Gaang is fine, it's just the word "Part" that could possibly be a little dodgy.

[FM MrSmarter]

I'm more focused on the word "Part" than "The Gaang". The Gaang is fine, it's just the word "Part" that could possibly be a little dodgy.

If people are even worried about the I am part of the Gaang then people could just say, " I am a town role". I don't see any way around that. Since mafia and neutral roles aren't town I don't see any dodge around that phrase.

[FM Yayap]

Well, if you're like me and think scumhunting D1 is useless, why bother trying to scum hunt or call someone out on day one? All it can do is potentially reveal a TPR. If we were to magically get a scum I would be seriously impressed. I'm simply waiting for day two. I mean, I'm taking notes, but nothing public.

Why do you think scum hunting on Day 1 can ONLY potentially reveal a TPR?

In my opinion, scum hunting on Day 1 can SAVE a TPR. Remember there is a confirmed vigilante in the game. People who are being useless in the daychat may be at risk of getting shot. And additionally active participation even if it is just getting people to post a phrase, or interacting with others is more useful than twiddling your thumbs and talking about Christmas sweaters. I would strongly urge you to step your game up.

[FM Zack]

Why do you think scum hunting on Day 1 can ONLY potentially reveal a TPR?

In my opinion, scum hunting on Day 1 can SAVE a TPR. Remember there is a confirmed vigilante in the game. People who are being useless in the daychat may be at risk of getting shot. And additionally active participation even if it is just getting people to post a phrase, or interacting with others is more useful than twiddling your thumbs and talking about Christmas sweaters. I would strongly urge you to step your game up.

If he were to shoot tonight then well... That would be his mistake. I've seen people in this point of the game. With no claimed roles, or its on day one people mess up far too much, and however good someone might think their scum hunting skills are I still rarely see them pull it off this early. It can be valuable when combined with information gathered from other days however.

Of course it is just my opinion based on my experiences. I'm not trying to control what other people do if that's what you think.

[FM FalseTruth]

Fix'd.

lol

[Slaol]

What is a Slaol?

Slaol is an ancient Celtic sun God.

[FM Crimson]

Cus im lazy and not going to hunt out the posts for later.

@gerick: the entire reason i shut you donw was exaclty b/c of your respons and how you play. The moement i say the word "ego" i stopped.

Point blank: fuck off about ego, i will rip you a new one if you are going to use ego to play. That is the one thing i fucking loathe about players when they think their play is some sort of amazing shit. How about you do something useful and tell us what you have found by telling us what you have found out/accpomished by wasting 6 pages.

@yap your chainsaw is noted

@ozzy: your starting to grate me. How about you make a read list with colors

@whoever the vig is, feel free to vig zac or ganondorf or me

[FM Crimson]

im also going to be point blank to players in general: if you think some gambit is some amazing shit and that your entire reason is b/c ego and that you think its some awesome shit, its not.

Gambits are meant to be reactions and should not stall out a day causing a huge banter/fight about things. If you have a reason for a gambit go ahead and do it. But dont do it b/c you have some ego idea thinking that its going to get you townpoints or some stupid shit. Its a waste of not only my time but everyone time that you decide to lie about something.