M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Kik]

Kik, you're forgetting the common sense definition of the word "force". Forcing someone to do something naturally includes preventing them from doing what you don't want to do. It's not much "force" on a Sheriff if a witch doesn't stop the Sheriff from checking his original target. To say that a party with multiple targets still visits some of them is arbitrary and makes no sense with a role that forces others to do what it wants.

I get what you're saying, but tbh this is a pretty standard iteration of the witch. In most (if not all) FMs I've played in which a witch was possible, the witch could only alter the first target of its victim.

The hosts probably should have specified this to be safe, but I think most people assumed it would work as the hosts intended it to work. Next time if something isn't specified, instead of assuming you know how it works, just ask. I ask seemingly obvious/stupid questions to hosts about my role all the time because if something is not stated explicitly I'd rather ask a seemingly dumb question and be 100% sure of how my role operates than make an assumption and get burned for it.

[Kik]

Fun Fact: on the day where town rush lynched Fall Down at the last minute, QuizUp had you jailed and ready to execute.

Heh. I wasn't even on that train...

[Words with Friends]

Kik, he absolutely did not, especially if his interpretation of the witch role mirrored mine. Yeah, he had a rough start but he had an excellent end game. Sometimes lurking was the best strategy. I didn't "take over" the town like I normally do because the town was doing such an excellent job for scum anyway there was no need. If FN lurked too hard and town had doubts, he was dead. There was a fine line and FN walked it relatively well.

Your game was easier Kik in one way because you were effectively immune to the mafia kill. FN lacked that immunity. Even when outed, there was always a chance FN could side with the town or DD.

I still don't think FN played better than you (the start was bad) but he still did a decent job.

[Words with Friends]

I get what you're saying, but tbh this is a pretty standard iteration of the witch. In most (if not all) FMs I've played in which a witch was possible, the witch could only alter the first target of its victim.

The hosts probably should have specified this to be safe, but I think most people assumed it would work as the hosts intended it to work. Next time if something isn't specified, instead of assuming you know how it works, just ask. I ask seemingly obvious/stupid questions to hosts about my role all the time because if something is not stated explicitly I'd rather ask a seemingly dumb question and be 100% sure of how my role operates than make an assumption and get burned for it.

To do what you're saying, I'd have to give the hosts hypothetical every night and say XYZ constantly. Hosts can't answer half of those questions anyway. It's not a bad assumption to assume roles work as stated in the text. A player shouldn't have to know the mod meta to pick up and play the game. The hosts can change mod meta. Plain text always trumps unless it leads to absurdities.

[2048]

Apo didn't trust Piano, but there wasn't many options.

[Kik]

Kik, he absolutely did not, especially if his interpretation of the witch role mirrored mine. Yeah, he had a rough start but he had an excellent end game. Sometimes lurking was the best strategy. I didn't "take over" the town like I normally do because the town was doing such an excellent job for scum anyway there was no need. If FN lurked too hard and town had doubts, he was dead. There was a fine line and FN walked it relatively well.

Your game was easier Kik in one way because you were effectively immune to the mafia kill. FN lacked that immunity. Even when outed, there was always a chance FN could side with the town or DD.

I still don't think FN played better than you (the start was bad) but he still did a decent job.

He didn't know he was witched thanks to the feedback block, so his interpretation of the way the witch worked is irrelevant. What he did know is that he chose to visit 3 people and someone blocked his feedback, meaning a 4th person must have visited him, thereby changing his win condition. I actually disagree with the hosts' decision to consider his win condition as feedback and not tell him that it changed, but this shouldn't have affected the game because he should have figured it out.

[Kik]

Apo didn't trust Piano, but there wasn't many options.

Your best option was to no-lynch and hope that me and the mafia killed each other at night.

You even said it yourself at the beginning of the day, then you voted for a lynch anyway. It makes no fucking sense.

[2048]

Your best option was to no-lynch and hope that me and the mafia killed each other at night.

You even said it yourself at the beginning of the day, then you voted for a lynch anyway. It makes no fucking sense.

That was my best option. However, Mafia and SK knew who each other were by that point. So that chance of survived ended right there.

[2048]

That was my best option. However, Mafia and SK knew who each other were by that point. So that chance of survived ended right there.

And that was my original plan.

[Kik]

That was my best option. However, Mafia and SK knew who each other were by that point. So that chance of survived ended right there.

Everyone knew who everyone was. There were only 4 players left, it was pretty obvious. What you should have hoped for, is that I wouldn't realize that killing mafia allowed researcher to betray me and win with you.

Not that I wouldn't know who it was. Especially since you claimed town at the beginning of the day.

[2048]

Everyone knew who everyone was. There were only 4 players left, it was pretty obvious. What you should have hoped for, is that I wouldn't realize that killing mafia allowed researcher to betray me and win with you.

Not that I wouldn't know who it was. Especially since you claimed town at the beginning of the day.

That would have only happened if Piano targeted you and failed.... Only if he was really stupid he would have targeted you. His best bet was to kill the Researcher in the end in case I was the SK

[Kik]

And for the record, Piano was obviously lying about negative happiness. I was about to explain this, but you had already voted. Though it should've been obvious anyway.

And to be honest you should have known that town was a lost cause anyway. because what would have happened that night is I would've killed Fruit ninja, then you would've had to decide the winner between me and mafia.

Instead you made the decision a day early and gave the win to the lurkiest fucking mafia ever.

[Kik]

That would have only happened if Piano targeted you and failed.... Only if he was really stupid he would have targeted you. His best bet was to kill the Researcher in the end in case I was the SK

No, you were obviously town. Attacking you would have been foolish. His best and only chance of victory was not killing and hoping you sided with him. In every other scenario, I would win.

[2048]

And for the record, Piano was obviously lying about negative happiness. I was about to explain this, but you had already voted. Though it should've been obvious anyway.

And to be honest you should have known that town was a lost cause anyway. because what would have happened that night is I would've killed Fruit ninja, then you would've had to decide the winner between me and mafia.

Instead you made the decision a day early and gave the win to the lurkiest fucking mafia ever.

Considering you had to better odds, it was best to go against you then. You were 1 v 1 v 2(but maybe didn't know it), but 1 still won.

[Kik]

Considering you had to better odds, it was best to go against you then. You were 1 v 1 v 2(but maybe didn't know it), but 1 still won.

No. Get this through your thick, empty skull: You had 0% chance of winning unless me and the mafia both did something really really fucking stupid. Since I am not a dumbfuck, that was not going to happen. So you had a 0% chance of victory. Your only job was to choose who won. The serial killer who basically is the only reason mafia didn't fucking annihilate town even though they lurked all fucking game, or the mafia who lurked all fucking game. You chose the mafia.

Now please stop talking. Your incompetence is starting to piss me off.

[2048]

No. Get this through your thick, empty skull: You had 0% chance of winning unless me and the mafia both did something really really fucking stupid. Since I am not a dumbfuck, that was not going to happen. So you had a 0% chance of victory. Your only job was to choose who won. The serial killer who basically is the only reason mafia didn't fucking annihilate town even though they lurked all fucking game, or the mafia who lurked all fucking game. You chose the mafia.

Now please stop talking. Your incompetence is starting to piss me off.

Lol, wtf?

Why are you getting so upset? Talk about butt sore

[Kik]

Lol, wtf?

Why are you getting so upset? Talk about butt sore

If you don't understand why a person would be upset that after investing a lot of time into a game, doing everything right, meticulously planning everything, and setting themselves up to win only to have victory taken from them at the last second due to the stupidity of two other people, and instead given to the faction that put in the least effort, who are also strong contenders for the worst faction ever in the history of this site, then I can't help you.

[Piano Tiles]

If you don't understand why a person would be upset that after investing a lot of time into a game, doing everything right, meticulously planning everything, and setting themselves up to win only to have victory taken from them at the last second due to the stupidity of two other people, and instead given to the faction that put in the least effort, who are also strong contenders for the worst faction ever in the history of this site, then I can't help you.

A lot of your complaining is very highly biassed. What about the old yayap fm where you were mafia and lost that? is that your falt also or everyone elses?

Just b/c someone else did something wrong, doesnt mean you are right.

Town cant win, so they can make someone else lose
neutral didnt know better due to drug hidden (and dont say he should of known)

You could of taken us out and then go killing all by yourself but instead you decided to leave it to us to try and do your dirty work (kills).

Did we lurk? yes but thats not really an exuse to say "we are the worst or its all our falt" or anyone elses for that matter. I was able to convince him to lynch you. Even if i didnt he didnt care. Look at the stuff we invested into our night chats. Yes some of it is filler stuff but we worked in calaborations.

Unless if you have a unanoums agreemnt on anything you have been comlainging about or suggesting, its all opinionated.

[Piano Tiles]

What about fm 18(?) where you got culted and "technacly" lost? what about cops and robbers M-FM where you got lynched? What about any fm (any size) you have been in? what makes tose any diffrent from this?

What about any other fm where scums lurked to victory? Porios game scums basicly did just that while town imploded. Whats their excuse?

[Piano Tiles]

is it unfair that we also had to get a replacement? What about FM20 where scums had an ENTIRE AFK scum but not modkilled due to them using him? you were bg there and you gave complaints. How come you didnt shit on them like you are doing here?

[Kik]

A lot of your complaining is very highly biassed. What about the old yayap fm where you were mafia and lost that? is that your falt also or everyone elses?

We deserved to lose on some level because my faction was mostly terrible. The only players who did anything useful were me and Clementine. However the town was also filled with lurkers who got themselves modkilled, so it was about even. I wasn't really upset by that loss.

Just b/c someone else did something wrong, doesnt mean you are right.

Town cant win, so they can make someone else lose
neutral didnt know better due to drug hidden (and dont say he should of known)
^"I am saying something that is easily refuted, so don't refute it" No. He should've known. He had all the information. He's an idiot.

You could of taken us out and then go killing all by yourself but instead you decided to leave it to us to try and do your dirty work (kills).
Not if I wanted to win. Killing you too fast would leave me extra vulnerable to things like roleblocks, since they would block 2 kills instead of one. Plus, I wouldn't have been able to maintain enough happiness to carry on for very long.

Did we lurk? yes but thats not really an exuse to say "we are the worst or its all our falt" or anyone elses for that matter.
Actually, yes it is. But even if it wasn't, you also did a lot of stupid things, like witching/drugging the researcher, changing his win condition from being on your side to on my side. You literally gave one of your allies to one of your enemies.
I was able to convince him to lynch you. Even if i didnt he didnt care. Look at the stuff we invested into our night chats. Yes some of it is filler stuff but we worked in calaborations.
Haven't had a chance to read through it yet, but I am very skeptical.

Unless if you have a unanoums agreemnt on anything you have been comlainging about or suggesting, its all opinionated.
I read through the dead chat briefly. It was pretty much unanimous that I was the only player in this game deserving of a win. And they had access to your night chat and still didn't think you deserved it. Even your mafia said I should win over you. So it basically was/is "unanoums".

What about fm 18(?) where you got culted and "technacly" lost?
I've never been culted in an FM.

what about cops and robbers M-FM where you got lynched?
Well there we no anon accounts, Damus got to choose his target (and chose me), and then for some reason the town decided to give an executioner a free win. But I accept partial responsibility for that as I for some reason couldn't convince anyone not to lynch me.
What about any fm (any size) you have been in? what makes tose any diffrent from this?
Well in the most recent FM, I was in a weird place mentally that made it probably the worst game I've ever played as far as my performance was concerned (the game itself was great), so I probably deserved to lose based on my merit alone, but the rest of the town did decently enough to pull out the win anyway.

What about any other fm where scums lurked to victory? Porios game scums basicly did just that while town imploded. Whats their excuse?
It wasn't the most active game for any of us, but saying we lurked to victory is still incorrect. Especially since one of our members had a death in their family and decided to keep playing anyway. Plus, the town in that game did pretty poorly.

Not that any of that is relevant to this game at all...

[Kik]

is it unfair that we also had to get a replacement? What about FM20 where scums had an ENTIRE AFK scum but not modkilled due to them using him? you were bg there and you gave complaints. How come you didnt shit on them like you are doing here?

I did shit on them. I also criticized the host for not modkilling the player who hadn't posted in like 5 days. They were horrible as well. It still doesn't mean this mafia was any less awful.

[Piano Tiles]

Not that any of that is relevant to this game at all...

These are comparsions im doing all you are kinda doing is sidestpping them as if they have no comparsion when many of them do. FMs history of games can be compared, in any game where scums kurked and won, or any game where scum(s) lost at endgame due to a vote of a faction that cant win, they cant be blamed. They are in a kingmaers game where no matter what they do its not going to help them unless the other faction wants to gamethrow.

Also on hunger games, thats besides the point. Wouldnt you say town did poorly here as well? You had one member who wanted to continue playing. Its a group as well. Think back to FM 20 as well where i was neutral. I made it late game only to be lynched. Was I mad? no. Again all you can do is really blame yourself. You were unable to convince 2048 to keep his vote off. I lied to get him to vote you.

And really, its only a game. Theres no need to grill everyone for your loss and grill the ones who won.

Lurking is a techincal legit stratagy, the fact you could of done the entire same thing is not our fault.

@next post: you contridict yourself then, you said we were "most awful" are you saying the team of FM20 was not as awful?

[Kik]

Town did do poorly in this game. I never said they didn't. But they at least had some good players that participated and tried to figure things out (Tapatalk, Clash of Clans, Snapchat, Flappy Bird). Those players were just killed quickly and the rest of the town was about as terrible as your mafia.

My point wasn't that town deserved to win this game; they didn't. But neither did you.

Your mafia and the orange mafia from fm 20 are about equally bad. Both had one player that did ok (Damus and titus, respectively) and 3 other players who did fuck all.

I'm not "grilling" anyone. I'm just calling out the two idiots/gamethrowers that caused it.

[Kik]

and by "it" I mean this travesty of an ending to an FM.

[Temple Run]

IMO 2048 should've let Kik won instead

half of the mafia has as much post as I do :P

[Piano Tiles]

Town did do poorly in this game. I never said they didn't. But they at least had some good players that participated and tried to figure things out (Tapatalk, Clash of Clans, Snapchat, Flappy Bird). Those players were just killed quickly and the rest of the town was about as terrible as your mafia.
Usally strong players get kill quick do then not?

also calling us as a whole was bad is really wrong tbh. Titus and louis (to a lesser extent) did quite well and were active

Also consider titus had more posts then you (excluding post game) is quite telling

WWF: 91
Kik: 89

Really if anyone did "bad" it would be nociz/me for day chat. But night chat is entirely diffren story


My point wasn't that town deserved to win this game; they didn't. But neither did you.
Well considering they imploded so hard, i woulnt say they did. We can argue on the latter of who "deserves it" till the end of time. so im not going to persue it

Your mafia and the orange mafia from fm 20 are about equally bad. Both had one player that did ok (Damus and titus, respectively) and 3 other players who did fuck all.
again, i would dissagre we ALL did bad, titus did good for what short time she had. Louis did meh as a replacemnt. If anything, i would say its me/nocitz (as already said)

I'm not "grilling" anyone. I'm just calling out the two idiots/gamethrowers that caused it.
Guess its POV then.
as for gamethrow
Neutral: i can see being gamethorw but again its debatable due to the lack of feedback
Town: you clearly stated they could not win, so its moot point to even consider them gamethrowing really

/tenchar

@new post: i think its more of you setting high standard and you expect all players to play at your skill level. At least thats what im taking from it, you expect mafia/town/ect to always play to a super high expectation that you set and when they dont you say "bad job"

TL;DR Not every player is invested as you are nor do they always have time. I think your just expecting something that not everyone can do.

@temple run

WWF: most posts for only 2 days
4pic: inacive but was there
Bloon: had some good when subbed in
Me: i picked up near end-game

[Temple Run]

/tenchar

@new post: i think its more of you setting high standard and you expect all players to play at your skill level. At least thats what im taking from it, you expect mafia/town/ect to always play to a super high expectation that you set and when they dont you say "bad job"

TL;DR Not every player is invested as you are nor do they always have time. I think your just expecting something that not everyone can do.

@temple run

WWF: most posts for only 2 days
4pic: inacive but was there
Bloon: had some good when subbed in
Me: i picked up near end-game

I'm not saying mafia doesn't deserve a win, I'm saying that DDK probably deserves it more
There really should be a 1v1v1 tiebreaking system, though it doesn't apply to this game since there was fruit ninja

[Kik]

It's not about post count, it's about content (as evidenced by Quizup, who had the most posts, but still wasn't very useful to town). Titus had more posts than I did, but she also basically gave herself away as being mafia in the first 2 days.

I didn't post as often as I might have liked due to the limitations of having a full time job, but I made my posts count.

I don't expect players to play "at my skill level". I expect them to play the game they sign up for. Which means actually paying attention to it and investing some time/energy into it. If they can't do that, they should either not sign up, or in the case of an emergency/unforeseen circumstance, ask to be replaced. I said it in the FM 20 epilogue, and I'll say it again here: posting in day chat is the point of the game. At the most fundamental level, mafia is a game about talking with other people. You must either lie to them without getting caught, or figure out which people are lying. Everything else (roles, actions, night chats, mechanics, etc.) is just a means to that end. So if you're not posting in day chat, you're not playing the game, regardless of whether or not you're posting in a night chat.

[Cut the Rope]

Kik congratulations. You schooled me and did a great job. *bows to him*

This was my first time to play a game on this forum (and my first anonymous game) and it was a pleasure to try to figure out how people were acting without having a clue who was who. That being said I do agree with Kik on the whole posting thing. I think it's the main reason some of my numbers were off. I account for derpage but I don't really account for inactivity. And furthermore I agree with Kik's point of having a lot of posts. If anything I was detrimental to town because of well tunneling wrong.

I don't know about the whole should have known thing on the jester so I'm staying impartial to that, but IMO it was clear to me that Fruit Ninja was SK aligned as I pointed it out earlier and got most of the scum roles right. I just sucked at identifying who was which role.

It was a pleasure Kik and you got my player's choice as you did a great job deceiving most players. I enjoyed losing (even though I wanted to win so very badly) to the mafia and you.

[Bloons TD]

Lol.

I was only coming here to vote MVP on kik, but looks like I'm not going to.

For this arguement kik brought on, I'm full of respect.

However, posting is a policy can not be enforced without host.

So this is the policy, none of you should pursuit.

And therefore, doesn't worth kik's emotion and devotion on this matter.

I don't like the way kik be after the game, because it isn't suppose to be an arguement he should bring,

For he isn't among the top 5 day chat contributor, nor the faction heavily need to manipulate day chat to win.

so I'm not going to vote him MVP.

Great argument, but a waste of time and emotion.




For cuttherope,

If anyone wants to be talktive in day time, the person must be like you, otherwise they will die.

Scums literally are aiming at those most talktive people.

You were put at the last because you are wrong all the time.

So you are actually the person who did the right thing, and keep the game interesting.



For the victory.

I prefer to say kik being the victor with sympathy of a harder role.

However, the game is fair squared.

Despite that Melon boy's choice and 2048's, they are chosen to live to participate the ending scene.

Their choice is, literally, the outcome of the game.



As a backup, I hope I have brought you all a great show,

though my planned risky entertaining concussion lynch against Quizup and Cuttherope were not carried out.

[Bloons TD]

I'm voting
Tapatalk/Gyver


Dead, A Master of Game, The MVP.


He made the whole construction plan and literally and ultimately locked the game flowing.

He died fist, because he must die for his contribution and potential intellectual performance.


btw, I was hoping a non-lynch day and quizup execute kik.

[Bloons TD]

I hope more people vote Tapatalk, everyone is, using his architect after all.

[Bloons TD]

For anyone surprised at kik being able to take out 3 mafias, should calculate the total kills he had and literally,

he should be able to take out at least 2 people if he paid attention.

Still, congratulation for taking out all 3 of us, and almost the last one.

Btw, why didn't kik point out for Fruit Ninja that his alignment is......

It should be such an easy arguement to make.


And I hoped piano will crash fruit ninja for not be able to win....
(Ohhh... the joke is Dark.)

DIDN't Happen.

[Bloons TD]

For mafia's part, I literally tell you that Titus contributed the most.

The others and I are just pretty good at carry out her will.

For anyone thought Piano tile wasn't paying attention,

I tell you this,

That is the biggest lie he gave you this game.

And it worked well.

[Words with Friends]

If Piano couldn't get Kik lynched, the next best move was no lynch no kill and hope Kik shot wrong. Then just convince FN to lynch Kik the next day. Piano went with the more risky option FMPOV, but it worked.

All the outed production plans sucked. Scum got an extra two production and happiness for doing jackshit.

[Bloons TD]

That move doesn't exist, because piano already bluntly admit himself being mafia.

Or even if he didn't, kik knew he is the only option.


So Piano tile asked votes from 2048 and Meloninja directly.

Whatever motivations the two had, I can't comprehended.

Piano's honest move worked.


Let's say,

Piano is out of options.

He did the only thing he can --- to lynch kik.

He made it.


Outrageous but he made it.

Fruitninja gave piano tile 2 product, 2 happiness at the last night.

The result is retarded, but it is fair.

[Bloons TD]

more risky option FMPOV


It is even more riskier than my plan to lynch Quizup and Cuttherope.

But it fucking worked.

[Bloons TD]

But think about it, 2048 is also the only person kik would allow to live.

Quizup wants him dead, and kik is constantly voting Angery bird.

He picked the wrong person to begin with.

But it can not be helped.

[Bloons TD]

All the outed production plans sucked. Scum got an extra two production and happiness for doing jackshit.

I argue that, there is no better plan than that.

Assume town's intelligence can not work well if works separately without agreement.

[Bloons TD]

Hey, titus, since you are here.

How did you like me taking over your part and handling day chat after you were dead?

[King Terenas Menethil]

I would like to remind everyone that it is just a game, and you should always respect others people. Keep it clean. Thank you.

[Clash of Clans]

Good game all.

@Cut the Rope
I said somewhere I would lol with you after the game ends. It was when you said "you must have never played with me before." Heheh

In any case, it was fun. I have some thoughts on everyone but I'll post them in a few days.

I have to say I was rooting for Kik in the end.

And I honestly want to place a lot of blame on some of the absolutely lurking terrible town. I mean really, feel free to defend your playstyle but I'm judging you here.

[Clash of Clans]

Thank you very much to all the replacements that stepped in! We had what, 5 or 6 of them?

*grumble just remembered we lost key PRs to no-night-action-replacements like escort and detective, but what can you do? grumble*

[Words with Friends]

Hey, titus, since you are here.

How did you like me taking over your part and handling day chat after you were dead?

I think you did a pretty decent job of it. I think the scumteam as a whole played rather well. I really hope to play another scum game with you guys. This one was too short IMO.

[Fall Down]

Well, I couldnt do as much as I hoped for, but at least i knew 4pics1word was scum, that vote on me was so fucking obvious scum like god, I dont know how he survived lol. Anyway was fun at least i was able to troll a bit mid-game, since i had nothing to defend myself.^^ Oh yeah and I still hate Instagram, his sheriff fake claim caused all this.

[Cut the Rope]

I think Bloons did a great job. It was only when Kik shot him and I reviewed Bloons posts did I see their scumminess.

@Titus: I am still shocked you were Words with Friends. You got me good sis. I seriously thought you were Instagram :P I feel really bad for how blunt I was to shadows. *blush*

@Citrus: Yeah. That was pretty funny. When I looked back and saw who played what COM I was very surprised.

Overall thanks for the first game of mafia on this forum everyone.

[Cut the Rope]

@Fall Down: Thanks for doing what you thought you could do replacing in! I wish I could have seen the scumminess of 4pics and that they were buddying me lol. I should wear a big sign saying anyone who is my buddy is scum XD.

Although I also find it quite hilarious I was right and should have died the first day and the SK and scum both didn't target TapATalk according to mafia chat. I knew Titus tunnels me :P It is even that way before/during her replacing in XD (Teasing love ya sis)

[Words with Friends]

Except I didn't tunnel you. ;)

Yeah, you were a decent hit (not knowing how bad you screwed up). The original Blooms wasn't posting and the guy who died N1 had massive jailor crumbs. If Blooms was in jail, the only way to save him was to shoot the jailor. The prior blooms showed up like a minute before the deadline. You were the only player encouraging scumhunting. The rest was about mechanics. It turned out to be a fortunate accident that you lived.

[Fruit Ninja]

HOW THE FUCK DID I JESTER?