M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Words with Friends]

should we assume then all scum have +2 production then?

[Clash of Clans]

Clash talking about which path to pursue is not the best for production.

So tell me why. What's wrong with what I proposed? Discrediting a player or proposal without justification is wasting discussion time AND possibly pushing players away from optimal tactics

We went over this Day 1, it only allows for scum to counter it.

There's 4 of them (+1 possibly +1) and 14 of us. If there's a counter that makes a plan useless, we should be able to think of it.

Or are you telling me you think the ETC was a bad idea? Please answer with an explanation

[Words with Friends]

vests only help players who need to survive. town don't need to survive. scum do. scum with additional production build more wonders. the game is half about info as much as it is optimization. the last two international wonders do as much to help scum as town if not more.

Vote: Clash of Clans

[2048]

There's 4 of them (+1 possibly +1) and 14 of us. If there's a counter that makes a plan useless, we should be able to think of it.

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?

Or are you telling me you think the ETC was a bad idea? Please answer with an explanation

I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

[2048]

Investigatives who helped build the Great Extra-Terrestrial Civilization, I now draw your attention to the New Great Pyramids.
You will beat anyone who spent all their N1 production on the Pyramids, and you may be able to set up a night chat with Candy Crush or another player you trust.

Incorrect, if they put 2 in pyramids and 4 in ETC last night, then if they pool the rest of their production into pyramids for the next two nights compared to a single nations pooling all of their production into pyramids since D1:

Both nations would have put forth a max of 18 production towards Pyramids

[Piano Tiles]

So are we still talking about this production stuff? So far that's what I see. Personally it make just about no sense to me right now. Does someone want to actually explain how it exactly works or should I be here acting like I know what this discussion is about?

[2048]

So are we still talking about this production stuff? So far that's what I see. Personally it make just about no sense to me right now. Does someone want to actually explain how it exactly works or should I be here acting like I know what this discussion is about?

*twitch*

The production is what's making this M-FM unique.... It's kinda bad as saying that you don't know what any of the roles are...

[Clash of Clans]

vests only help players who need to survive. town don't need to survive. scum do. scum with additional production build more wonders. the game is half about info as much as it is optimization. the last two international wonders do as much to help scum as town if not more.

Vote: Clash of Clans

...sigh

Use vote tags to vote someone on here. [vote]Clash of Clans[ /vote] but with a correct closing bracket.

Vests can prevent scumkills. Town are much more likely to be hit at night than scum. Vests do not affect lynches at all -> a lynched player with a vest is lynched.

[Words with Friends]

-vote Clash of Clans

it's trading a gunshot for the opportunity for all scum to vest. the doomsday killer just becomes an enemy solely to town. your plan sucks. first you propose a plan that likely gives all scum bonus production and now you want to give them vests. i don't care for you. can you start to scumhunt rather than purely setup speculate?

[Clash of Clans]

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?


I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

14 players commenting on counters to plans. Not 14 players building the ETC last night. Are you selectively reading my posts?

[Clash of Clans]

Counter-argument. You stated only the investigative roles should for it. Now you are saying all 14 should?


I was stating how public displaying what production intentions should be to scum as a bad idea. I never even mentioned ETC, however ETC was great that to confirmed a town instead of scum getting their hands on it.

Forgot to add: you can specifically state how a plan to coordinate during the day is bad. If it's bad we coordinate something during the day, then we just won't do it.

That's the entire point of discussing plans

[Cut the Rope]

WARNING LONG ASS POST AHEAD -- THIS IS THE SUMMARY

Based on my calculations during the night phase, it is my opinion that the priority needs to be to focus on Instagram, Fruit Ninja, or Clash of Clans for the lynch today. The analysis of some postings also reveal a likely Culturalist for the mafia scum or a role that they will have production hunt instead of power usage. Mafia scum is also very unlikely to have a detainer.
We also have a bit of a dilemma. We did EXACTLY a play that helps scum. The serial killer and mafia optimal play is to hunt power roles for town. If a mislynch occurs on a peaceful it is disastrous to town, so that is why any evil group with a kill does not want to hit a peaceful. This is providing scum with a fucking road map to victory people. IT IS MY OPINION THAT: NO MASS PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SHOULD BE DISCUSSED APPROVED OR ACCEPTED AT LEAST ENOUGH MAFIA ARE DEAD OR DESPERATION TIME.

For more details/reasons, please see the next post of mine which I will have encapsulated in spoiler tags due to its length, assuming spoiler tags work on this forum. It may take me about 15-20 minutes to format because this forum does tags weird. Since invisible ink is allowed, I'm pretty sure spoiler tags would be, and this is done for ease of the game. It’s my opinion that the lynch should be between Fruit Ninja, Clash of Clans, or Instagram. My gut and mathematics is screaming Instagram right now and that is why the vote is below on them.

-vote Instagram

[Piano Tiles]

*twitch*

The production is what's making this M-FM unique.... It's kinda bad as saying that you don't know what any of the roles are...

We need an FM named twitch now.

But yes I didn't really even look at setup, much less try to understand it atm.

But is it also sad I find your pissing contest with CoC rather amusing?

[Clash of Clans]

-vote Clash of Clans

it's trading a gunshot for the opportunity for all scum to vest. the doomsday killer just becomes an enemy solely to town. your plan sucks. first you propose a plan that likely gives all scum bonus production and now you want to give them vests. i don't care for you. can you start to scumhunt rather than purely setup speculate?

I'll play exactly as I feel like, thanks.

Did you miss the part where I asked for thoughts? Or are you going to just decide I'm scum because you specifically don't like a plan I proposed? At least you're explaining why now.

Why do you think scum would build the International Project in that case? And then spend 10 production towards a vest? Wouldn't that be un-optimal if they have night actions, happiness to worry about, etc.?

The point of the first plan was 2 additional production for citizens. This one can vest citizens. The slower scum kill, the more investigation results, the more lynches, etc.

[2048]

But is it also sad I find your pissing contest with CoC rather amusing?

But I oh so love pissing contests. Wanna challenge me to whom is farthest?

[2048]

WARNING LONG ASS POST AHEAD -- THIS IS THE SUMMARY

Based on my calculations during the night phase, it is my opinion that the priority needs to be to focus on Instagram, Fruit Ninja, or Clash of Clans for the lynch today. The analysis of some postings also reveal a likely Culturalist for the mafia scum or a role that they will have production hunt instead of power usage. Mafia scum is also very unlikely to have a detainer.
We also have a bit of a dilemma. We did EXACTLY a play that helps scum. The serial killer and mafia optimal play is to hunt power roles for town. If a mislynch occurs on a peaceful it is disastrous to town, so that is why any evil group with a kill does not want to hit a peaceful. This is providing scum with a fucking road map to victory people. IT IS MY OPINION THAT: NO MASS PLANS FOR PRODUCTION SHOULD BE DISCUSSED APPROVED OR ACCEPTED AT LEAST ENOUGH MAFIA ARE DEAD OR DESPERATION TIME.

For more details/reasons, please see the next post of mine which I will have encapsulated in spoiler tags due to its length, assuming spoiler tags work on this forum. It may take me about 15-20 minutes to format because this forum does tags weird. Since invisible ink is allowed, I'm pretty sure spoiler tags would be, and this is done for ease of the game. It’s my opinion that the lynch should be between Fruit Ninja, Clash of Clans, or Instagram. My gut and mathematics is screaming Instagram right now and that is why the vote is below on them.

-vote Instagram

And is everyone ignoring the possibility that Vine killed Tapa?

[Cut the Rope]

Spoiler : LONG REASONS POST :

Based on some of the prior posts suggesting what we should and should not do with production yesterday. I’m still of the opinion it’s not time yet, and I am wanting to take the time to explain in further detail today now that there’s hard evidence.
Overall 9 players concretely agreed that having some form of planned production was a good idea to benefit town. I did not count anything that could be construed as a maybe, so the number could actually be higher than this. (I know we have two confirmed power roles dead but the math was done during the night.)
For specific posts see the table below: The names are in post quantity from day 1 order
Player Name Agree Post Number
2048 Yes 120
Vine Yes Many

Fruit Ninja Yes 212
TapATalk Yes 16
Instagram Yes 106
Clash of Clans Yes 15,Many
Temple Run Yes 280
iFunny Yes 324
Candy Crush Saga Yes 327

With 4 mafia scum in play what are the odds that scum did not try to get town to go along with a planned production
There is an 89.7 percent chance (rounding to 90 for easy numbers) that there is at least 1 scum in those 9 players. (Will discuss the night flip reducing this by two in a bit) Because of this scum likely wants or desires a map so they can leverage it to their best advantage. If they have a map they would likely have wonder/IP based goals to do. This would mean a Culturalist is likely for the mafia scum. If a Culturalist is not present then they likely have a role that would focus on wonder production in the early going. With the mechanics this makes sense too because if all of the mafia scum go kill/power crazy they’d fall victim to unhappiness rather quickly and shoot themselves in the foot. It’s also unlikely that the scum have a detainer else the optimal play would be to have an additional kill. Therefore I lagged behind in posting today to see who would discuss more production further and low and behold it is a top scumspect of mine.
Now, we start to take into account that TapATalk and Candy Crush Saga are both town. This means that we should almost absolutely have a lynch today between these 7 players that agreed that the production is a good idea.
My top three priorities for this are Fruit Ninja/Instagram/Clash of Clans, but Vine is also acceptable unless they get their butt in gear and start playing right. My gut read says town is possible and it is a gambit but my logic side says they are pretty scummy. If my gut did not ping for Vine being town right now they’d still be at the top.
My readwall for these 9 players from top (town) to bottom (scum) of these nine players is:
Candy Crush Saga
TapATalk
2048
Temple Run
iFunny
Vine
FruitNinja/Instagram/Clash of Clans

For Fruit Ninja – The arguments posted before are starting to gain more credence on me that they are the SK now that I’ve had time to sleep on it.

For Clash of Clans – The introductory vote at the beginning on Vine and then joining the Fruit Ninja lynch at the start because two of their buddies were on it and unable to give solid reasons as to why until much later. When prompted, they literally said “Idk.” , with a fluffy reason after it. Also looking at who the two buddies are: Instagram and Quizup this doesn’t surprise me. Quizup was willing to have an honest discussion and provoke thought into who is and is not scum so they are likely town. Instagram I would have said was likely town until their last post of the day. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then it likely follows that Fruit Ninja is not mafia scum, but possibly the serial killer. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then I’d look doubly hard at Instagram.

For Instagram – They started off agreeing with the ridiculously horrible plan and claiming peaceful. Then they come back on the last post and say they are investigating me because I’m all over the place. It’s day 1. I’m supposed to prod and pressure and question as many people as reasonably possible. That’s scumhunting 101. Being all over the place is a good thing it shows an open mind. Unless a player is me or mod confirmed town (like Candy Crush Saga/TapATalk) they have a chance of being scum.
They also called me a male. My introduction was, in part, establishing that I’m female. It’s pretty hard to miss. So they read my posts enough to judge that I’m “all over the place”, but not notice I’m a female? This seems fishy. Combining that with the investigating me which is a contradiction of prior claim of peaceful as well as it should be suicide and almost anti-win-con to power role claim this early as mafia scum should be targeting and/or killing Instagram today if Instagram is alive today, I would advocate their lynch.
It’s especially telling that in my feedback, nothing happened. Zilch nada all I got was happiness and a statement saying nada happened. So either there is a scientist role in scum that manipulated my feedback OR Instagram is a liar. I’m leaning strongly towards the second.

I would like your feedback on these ideas. I’m really thinking that we should start by pressuring Instagram or Clash of Clans, and not Fruit Ninja, even though Fruit Ninja was almost the lynch. The reason being is because a day 1 lynch is almost always a townie of some kind, from a mathematical standpoint. While Fruit Ninja still has a lot of logic that they are the serial killer, and if we decide to lynch Fruit Ninja that’s still a good play but if we have more discussion the better it turns out for town.

[Cut the Rope]

And is everyone ignoring the possibility that Vine killed Tapa?

I'm not ignoring the possibility 2048. It's just the mathematics and the introduction lead me in a different way. If you look at the reasons post I just did, Vine is still pretty scummy on my list. I just think there are better plays. Make sense?

[Piano Tiles]

But I oh so love pissing contests. Wanna challenge me to whom is farthest?

YES! Then we can compare dicks with him and then maybe circle jerk. I bet I would go off last (unless if someone starts making noise).

[iFunny]

iFunny I can definitely see based on his post. He shows how he hasn't read much of the day at all based on the last sentence where he talks about the plan and then he votes Fruit Ninja. Tapatalk mostly right now because he likes iFunny's post by his attitude toward iFunny wasn't harsh like all the others that he gave post reads on. Showing buddying.

I saw there were plans, but what I meant is that we had to actually AGREE on a plan, which hadn't happened. I skimmed what happened, not ignored it.

I've reread what I've written and I can definitely see my post on iFunny being interpreted as thinly veiled praise.

iFunny submitted his first post as I was about to submit mine. I read if and was glad to see something of substance rather than "I'm here more posts to come later". He needs to post a lot more substantive posts to make it off of the first part of my shit list. While being on the second part of my shit list for being invisible.

Sent from my vegetative assistant Jeff using Tapatalk

I didn't switch to invisible because I was scared of people seeing when I was inactive. I switched because that's what I always do. I'm sorry if you don't like that.

Ok, but iFunny still did just vote on Fruit Ninja without a read and his last part of the post basically said he hasn't read much at all since there have been plans for production. Not saying he is 100% scum, but it is still scummy.

I didn't have a whole lot of time to post, so I couldn't type a giant post. I said I found him scummy, and I do. I just wasn't able to write that in great detail. For the second part, what I said above.

[2048]

You may have mis-read my post #120. That was not in reference for planned production, but liking the idea of denying scum the chance of powers

[Piano Tiles]

Dat wall post. I think my brain died a little trying to understand that.

[Words with Friends]

I'll play exactly as I feel like, thanks.

Did you miss the part where I asked for thoughts? Or are you going to just decide I'm scum because you specifically don't like a plan I proposed? At least you're explaining why now.

Why do you think scum would build the International Project in that case? And then spend 10 production towards a vest? Wouldn't that be un-optimal if they have night actions, happiness to worry about, etc.?

The point of the first plan was 2 additional production for citizens. This one can vest citizens. The slower scum kill, the more investigation results, the more lynches, etc.

i am giving you thoughts.

scum likely saw the success of the wonder, and gained +2 production throughout. Spend 4, gain plus 2 forever. duh. production only tanks if scum act too much. duh.

then hunger games, really? town gets collective gun. if it misses, we trade giving scum ability to vest for a one shot vig. puhleeze.

[Words with Friends]

cut the rope, why is Fruit Ninja having a possible sk? I didn't see the usual wagon+counterwagon and rvs... why?

[Cut the Rope]

You may have mis-read my post #120. That was not in reference for planned production, but liking the idea of denying scum the chance of powers

It's quite possible that I may have misread/misunderstood it. You were a top town read for me when I posted that. But I also ask why defensive? No one has thought you were scum at this point. Still I think you're town and that's an honest response, but no longer quite at the top.

Piano Tiles -- Yeah my brain works different than some people's. I'm not the best reader of people, so I counter that by using my mathematics strengths. It's understandable that that may hurt to understand but that's also why I put it in spoiler tags so the thread can continue.

Words With Friends -- For ease of everyone's reading I will refer you to: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449564

[2048]

It's quite possible that I may have misread/misunderstood it. You were a top town read for me when I posted that. But I also ask why defensive? No one has thought you were scum at this point. Still I think you're town and that's an honest response, but no longer quite at the top.

Hmmmm, didn't think I was being defensive.

I didn't like the way it sounded like you were undermining me as if I've been agreeing towards a production plan for town when this whole time I've been trying to prevent one.
I don't care for others altering my words. That's what I do, not what others to me....

[Kik]

-vote FM Vine

Still think he's scum and as I mentioned yesterday, I think his flip will give us information about Fall Down's alignment as well. Plus, a number of other people suspect Vine so I don't think it will be too difficult for us to get the votes.

Oh, and nothing happened to me last night.

[Vine]

I'm Peaceful.
Was lured.
Current happiness +2.

*disappointed*

[Kik]

Oh wait, I forgot we don't have "FM" in our names.

-vote Vine

there we go.

[Vine]

I don't know how I can defend myself, so...

Last will:

Reads

Not enough info
Strong town
Leaning town
Leaning scum
Strong scum

Players	Posts	Impression	Voted	Role
Flappy Bird	1	Made it known that he will only troll
iFunny	1	Busy and requested for town organization	Fruit Ninja
Kik	14	Lacked sample size, buddied Fall Down
Bloons TD	2	Made it known that he doesn't care
Instagram	16	Prevented misinformation	Fruit Ninja
SnapChat	7	Lacked sample size	Fruit Ninja
Angry Birds	1	Anti-day 1 discussion		Warmonger
QuizUp	40	Promoting discussion but ignored mechanics altogether	Fruit Ninja	Doomsday killer
Clash of Clans	13	A busy person who tried to organize town	Fruit Ninja
2048	52	Almost all posts are neutral-leaning fluff without content		Warmonger
4pics1word	3	Supported town organization	Fruit Ninja
Candy Crush Saga	1	Voiced support for town organization
Cut The Rope	27	Against organizing town action and full of discredits	Fruit Ninja	Warmonger
Fruit Ninja	39	Promoting apathy in day chat		Warmonger
Temple Run	9	Giving opinions, pro-town organization
Words with Friends	0	Didn't post
Tapatalk	24	Organized town and prevented misinformation	Fruit Ninja
Vine	44	Me!	Fruit Ninja
Piano Tiles	3	Made it known that he does not want to contribute
Fall Down	24	Participated in discussion

2048
A total of 52 posts, almost all which are fluff without content.
Did not vote Fruit Ninja.
Tried to discourage concerted town production by providing vague alternatives (#269-277)

Fruit Ninja
Promoting apathy in day chat.
39 posts of low value.

Angry Birds
Tried to discourage discussion with his single post.

Cut The Rope
Extremely negative against anyone organizing town actions
Trying to discredit good ideas
Tried to expose players who acted dumb, on day 1
Unnecessarily unvoted Fruit Ninja with strange reasoning, only to revote a few post later, after iFunny sheeped (#322-325).

QuizUp
Spent 40 posts promoting discussion with minimal input from himself.
Not afraid at dying at night, from his hyper pro-town act.
The Doomsday Killer!


Actions

N1: 6 production to ET


Explanation

1. Scums don't like newbies who claimed their town role, because everyone will believe the newbie, as if the newbie had a day-reveal role.
2. Proposing good but subpar ideas stimulate discussion and separates the real town from the fakes. Real town will correct your mistakes.


Farewell note

I do hope my Vengeful Thorn hits!

[Cut the Rope]

Hmmmm, didn't think I was being defensive.

I didn't like the way it sounded like you were undermining me as if I've been agreeing towards a production plan for town when this whole time I've been trying to prevent one.
I don't care for others altering my words. That's what I do, not what others to me....

I'm sorry you don't like that 2048 but I'm not apologizing for what I thought was accurate at the time. Like I said the above is based on probability. There are going to be some town players in that group. My reads can and do change as the game goes along. I'm not trying to alter your words, you are stating that you are trying to stop town derp congrats.

The reason I had you as a yes is because the post read like you were agreeing to help build a wonder. If I misunderstood, then I did, but pronouns be a bitch to me and I hate them. (One of the many reasons my posts are wordy.) That was my thought process. There is an interpretation element. The main idea is that we should be voting for likely scum that helped push the build quite possibly the stupidest thing for town to build at the beginning of the game.

[Clash of Clans]

Spoiler : LONG REASONS POST :

Based on some of the prior posts suggesting what we should and should not do with production yesterday. I’m still of the opinion it’s not time yet, and I am wanting to take the time to explain in further detail today now that there’s hard evidence.
Overall 9 players concretely agreed that having some form of planned production was a good idea to benefit town. I did not count anything that could be construed as a maybe, so the number could actually be higher than this. (I know we have two confirmed power roles dead but the math was done during the night.)
For specific posts see the table below: The names are in post quantity from day 1 order
Player Name Agree Post Number
2048 Yes 120
Vine Yes Many

Fruit Ninja Yes 212
TapATalk Yes 16
Instagram Yes 106
Clash of Clans Yes 15,Many
Temple Run Yes 280
iFunny Yes 324
Candy Crush Saga Yes 327

With 4 mafia scum in play what are the odds that scum did not try to get town to go along with a planned production
There is an 89.7 percent chance (rounding to 90 for easy numbers) that there is at least 1 scum in those 9 players. (Will discuss the night flip reducing this by two in a bit) Because of this scum likely wants or desires a map so they can leverage it to their best advantage. If they have a map they would likely have wonder/IP based goals to do. This would mean a Culturalist is likely for the mafia scum. If a Culturalist is not present then they likely have a role that would focus on wonder production in the early going. With the mechanics this makes sense too because if all of the mafia scum go kill/power crazy they’d fall victim to unhappiness rather quickly and shoot themselves in the foot. It’s also unlikely that the scum have a detainer else the optimal play would be to have an additional kill. Therefore I lagged behind in posting today to see who would discuss more production further and low and behold it is a top scumspect of mine.
Now, we start to take into account that TapATalk and Candy Crush Saga are both town. This means that we should almost absolutely have a lynch today between these 7 players that agreed that the production is a good idea.
My top three priorities for this are Fruit Ninja/Instagram/Clash of Clans, but Vine is also acceptable unless they get their butt in gear and start playing right. My gut read says town is possible and it is a gambit but my logic side says they are pretty scummy. If my gut did not ping for Vine being town right now they’d still be at the top.
My readwall for these 9 players from top (town) to bottom (scum) of these nine players is:
Candy Crush Saga
TapATalk
2048
Temple Run
iFunny
Vine
FruitNinja/Instagram/Clash of Clans

For Fruit Ninja – The arguments posted before are starting to gain more credence on me that they are the SK now that I’ve had time to sleep on it.

For Clash of Clans – The introductory vote at the beginning on Vine and then joining the Fruit Ninja lynch at the start because two of their buddies were on it and unable to give solid reasons as to why until much later. When prompted, they literally said “Idk.” , with a fluffy reason after it. Also looking at who the two buddies are: Instagram and Quizup this doesn’t surprise me. Quizup was willing to have an honest discussion and provoke thought into who is and is not scum so they are likely town. Instagram I would have said was likely town until their last post of the day. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then it likely follows that Fruit Ninja is not mafia scum, but possibly the serial killer. If Clash of Clans is mafia scum then I’d look doubly hard at Instagram.

For Instagram – They started off agreeing with the ridiculously horrible plan and claiming peaceful. Then they come back on the last post and say they are investigating me because I’m all over the place. It’s day 1. I’m supposed to prod and pressure and question as many people as reasonably possible. That’s scumhunting 101. Being all over the place is a good thing it shows an open mind. Unless a player is me or mod confirmed town (like Candy Crush Saga/TapATalk) they have a chance of being scum.
They also called me a male. My introduction was, in part, establishing that I’m female. It’s pretty hard to miss. So they read my posts enough to judge that I’m “all over the place”, but not notice I’m a female? This seems fishy. Combining that with the investigating me which is a contradiction of prior claim of peaceful as well as it should be suicide and almost anti-win-con to power role claim this early as mafia scum should be targeting and/or killing Instagram today if Instagram is alive today, I would advocate their lynch.
It’s especially telling that in my feedback, nothing happened. Zilch nada all I got was happiness and a statement saying nada happened. So either there is a scientist role in scum that manipulated my feedback OR Instagram is a liar. I’m leaning strongly towards the second.

I would like your feedback on these ideas. I’m really thinking that we should start by pressuring Instagram or Clash of Clans, and not Fruit Ninja, even though Fruit Ninja was almost the lynch. The reason being is because a day 1 lynch is almost always a townie of some kind, from a mathematical standpoint. While Fruit Ninja still has a lot of logic that they are the serial killer, and if we decide to lynch Fruit Ninja that’s still a good play but if we have more discussion the better it turns out for town.

@Cut the Rope

You can't use math in all the ways you did during this post. For example, 9 players said yes to the production plan. 2 are confirmed town. Why are you assuming all 4 scum will say yes as well? What if, for example, the 9 players are all town? And then the 4 scum are outside it because it messes with their plans? Ex: They have to build ETC for the extra production rather than what they wanted to do N1 or miss out on the extra production. Plus, it means players may have to be accountable later for the amount of production they have, reducing wiggle room for scum. So from an objective sense, you haven't even considered the opposite view. Look both ways before crossing the street, or you're going to get hit by a car you didn't look for.

Also keep in mind scum could not start discussing anything at all til N1. Also, mathematically the chances are scum will take both sides of the proposal so they aren't all tied together via something like that. So at least crunch the numbers correctly.

That said, Cut the Rope is a relatively strong town read for me.

[Words with Friends]

vine, how did you do that for your will? isn't it odd all your scumreads but for one refused to vote fruit ninja? is it likely scum didn't bus?

clash, you gripe about me telling you how to play and your first response is to tell cut the rope how not to play. hypocritical much?

[Vine]

Will we be told by PM that we have +2 production/happiness or other bonuses?

[Cut the Rope]

Whoa...Everyone Vine train bad idea with the feedback they just posted. We need to stop and think about this one a little bit harder.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449769

I mentioned it was likely that the scum had a culturalist and/or scientist. So four possibilities are happening

1) Vine was actually lured by scum and this caused the +1 happiness and that Vine is telling the truth.
2) Vine was believing themselves to tell the truth but was hit with a scientist bad feedback and that caused the plus one happiness and Vine is "telling the truth" in spirit.
3) Vine is a liar and preplanned the defense. Of all the defenses to preplan, there's a lot better plays to do.
4) Vine is newbie scum and is having introductory panic reaction to multiple serious votes.

I think 1 and 2 are a lot more likely given the hypothesized mechanics of the game. If we are going down a Vine train I'd like to see more arguments as to why.

Vine -- P.S. I'm trying to help town but I give you kudos for sticking to your guns that you believe I'm scum. It lends more credence to your beginning play which I still think is derping.

Clash Of Clans -- I am very confident that I can use math the way I did. I specialize in this kind of mathematics. I did not assume all 4 did, I assumed at least 1 did. HUGE difference. I would like you to reread the post and see if you can pick up the difference. If anyone else is interested I will break down how and why the formulas work the way they do but I don't want to spend a few hours doing probability 101 if all I get is TLDR and Too Fucking Boring/complex Didn't read.

Also I have NO IDEA when scum started their conversations. This to me is a HUGE scumslip. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if scum knows what town is doing then scum can react.

-vote Clash of Clans

[Cut the Rope]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

[Clash of Clans]

Clash Of Clans -- I am very confident that I can use math the way I did. I specialize in this kind of mathematics. I did not assume all 4 did, I assumed at least 1 did. HUGE difference. I would like you to reread the post and see if you can pick up the difference. If anyone else is interested I will break down how and why the formulas work the way they do but I don't want to spend a few hours doing probability 101 if all I get is TLDR and Too Fucking Boring/complex Didn't read.

Also I have NO IDEA when scum started their conversations. This to me is a HUGE scumslip. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if scum knows what town is doing then scum can react.

-vote Clash of Clans

Then I'll have to discuss the math stuff with you post-game. My apologies, I thought you said all 4 did. I'd argue scum would worry about proposed plans D1 etc. because they can't coordinate or figure out if it's helpful or hurtful to them, and if they sheep each other on one side or the other you can tie them together.

Please don't insult me. I don't scumslip. But anyways, this bolded quote from the setup is for you:

RULES AND MECHANICS
You will not know your RP name until you die
Days and Nights are 48 hours, unless I say otherwise
Mafia can talk to each other at night.

[Clash of Clans]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

That is a last will and thus from the night. It's from before the day started and the conf!town was given.

[2048]

Also Vine -- as a counter to that, why is Candy Crush Saga not Conf Town? I think you may need to reanalyze who you have as town and who you have as scum, assuming you are town. A lot of what you are saying is not making sense.

I think the answer to that is that Vine posted her last will. That may not reflect what they are thinking currently.

[Words with Friends]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

[Words with Friends]

no I'm drunk she said lured

Mistake in actions? were tapatalk's choices swapped?

[Words with Friends]

cut the rope, you've the a problem... tapatalk said he repelled vine. so if vine was lured by scum, her net happiness would still be plus 1 no?

i'm thinking something fucked up personally.

[Vine]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

I'm told that I was lured and that I have 2 happiness (gained 1 happiness).

[2048]

Night 1: Repelled Angry Birds | Attracted Vine

Ummm....

[2048]

vine, are you sure your feedback said you gained happiness or just that your were repelled?

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

[Words with Friends]

did you get any other feedback?

i'm confused because scientist can't stop you from getting your normal feedback and put new one in so you shouldn't have received lured? you should have received repelled, which makes sense given your peaceful claim earlier in the day

[Words with Friends]

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

which is why i'm thinking a mistake was made somewhere...the last will has precisely the opposite of what vine is claiming

[Cut the Rope]

Then I'll have to discuss the math stuff with you post-game. My apologies, I thought you said all 4 did. I'd argue scum would worry about proposed plans D1 etc. because they can't coordinate or figure out if it's helpful or hurtful to them, and if they sheep each other on one side or the other you can tie them together.

Please don't insult me. I don't scumslip. But anyways, this bolded quote from the setup is for you:

Nah, I don't mind explaining how I got my numbers in game and showing how it played out. No reason to have to wait until end game. It's actually just a couple of factorials thrown together quite nicely actually. Beautifully simple in its design. If you continute to insist that my mathematics is flawed I will do another spoiler post with all of it explained out in more detail when conversations die down. I'm confident that my logic will stand up to scrutiny.

It's my opinion that every scum scum slips, it's a matter of whether it is found during the game or afterward. And yes I see that mafia can talk to each other at night. This doesn't exclude a possibility of a prechat. In some games I have been in mafia did have those. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But to outright say when mafia started talking to me is a scumslip. But in the game thread it was asked if mafia knew who the partners were and the host said yes. So even if no prechat or knowing of roles or planning, this still lends credence to the Culturalist is in scum idea.

Source of what host said: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post449377

So it's not meant as an insult, it's merely what I believe to be true.

2048/Words With Friends -- Good point -- Rereading. This may either mean something fishy or a scientist hit on Vine. Let me do some more analysis here.

[Vine]

I don't think anyone even talked about the repelling of Angry Birds yet.

He's, like... not the Doomsday Killer. Can still be Warmongers, I think...

[2048]

which is why i'm thinking a mistake was made somewhere...the last will has precisely the opposite of what vine is claiming

Words... Your confusing me.... Tapatalk's last will states that he REPELLED Angry Birds and LURED Vine