M-FM XXI Avatar the Last Airbender Gamethread

[Yangchen]

It's not that it will fail. Aang initiates the plan by revealing today. If Aang refused to go ahead the plan would simply never be enacted. Nothing lost because nothing was ever started.

Yeah. I said my point earlier.

Im moving my vote now. Lets go with lion for his disappearance after being singled out.

-vote Lion Turtle

[Guru Pathik]

Will the graveyard reveal cause of death?

Yes

what happens if aang and maf visit tui in same night?

if nothing, it's better for citizen to claim their alignment but to avoid more idiot claims: ONLY IF YOU'RE FORCED TO CLAIM ANYWAY

OoO

The setup says that Tui can be a predetermined Water Tribe Player.

Does this just refer to Water tribe Citizens? Can Tui be Katara or Sokka of the water tribe? Can Tui be an Earth Kingdom Citizen who was given a Water tribe RP name like Master Pakku?

Water Tribe Citizen

was answered. also can water tribe cits even become earth RP roles and vice versa

No.

Does Katara's Freezing give feedback?
Do we get last wills?

Perhaps
Citizens may leave last wills

I can see some situations where Fire Nation is eliminated, and it ends up being Team Avatar vs. Freedom Fighters and the former Earth Kingdom Citizens being willing to ditch Jet/Freedom Fighters to ensure a town win due to the nature of their reversible win condition.

If Smellerbee was recruited but is in the graveyard, before jet dies, will the Freedom Fighters break up?
If Jet dies, and then Smellerbee dies the next night, will the Freedom Fighters break up? Or can the Freedom Fighters only break up the night that Jet dies?

Yes.
No.

What do you mean by 'defeat' in the win conditions? Do you mean personally kill, out-live, what?

Personally defeat by their own means.

Please clarify the win conditions; they are currently very ambiguous.

Clarify the question

What does "returning him to the Fire Nation as a prize" mean for Aang? Is this simply RP flavour? Will he lose all his powers? Will he die?

RP flavor mostly, but Aang will be removed from the game. effectively killed

Uhhh what... Where is this stated? I can't see it in the setup anywhere. I know full well that vbulletin is capable of producing invisible night chats on-site and this was what we used for FMs 4-12 that I played in. Why would night-chats be off-site? Can Roku confirm this?

Night chats are off-site

Returned now, will put together the promised preliminary leads list.

I could be wrong, but aren't a lot of night chats made with anonymous accounts? Wouldn't that be the same for Zuko and Iroh? Do Zuko and Iroh know each others' identities? If they're known to each other, I'm pretty sure Zuko throwing Iroh under the bus is one of the most obvious plans in terms of Traitor-strategy

@K#3
Systematic voting is akin to random (no bias involved), which I figure is the best course of action with no prior/relevant knowledge.

Not at this time.

Thing is it doesn't say he automatically becomes the Blue Spirit.

Where in the OoO does Zuko turn into the blue spirit?

If he turns into the blue spirit at the beginning of the night then the plan could possibly work. If we fear a bruiser and Zuko becomes the blue spirit at the end of the night then the plan isn't worth the risk at all.

The moment Iroh dies.

[Wei Jin]

I am not seeing a flaw in the plan to be honest. If the OoO works for the plan and we go through with this then Zuko only has to eliminate Admiral Zhao to win which would benefit him very much.. or am I missing anything?

If the plan goes through Zuko would get his evolved win condition. Nothing says he has to give up Iroh. He only has to defeat Admiral Zhao and I am assuming he can be dead for that. If he decides to follow the plan through and give up Iroh then he will become the blue spirit and his win condition be to defeat the fire nation and freedom fighters. With the plan also Team Avatar won't get the evolved win condition because Iroh was killed by a lynch before Aang could visit Iroh.

[Wei Jin]

RP flavor mostly, but Aang will be removed from the game. effectively killed

So this means that Aang will die if jailed and not executed by Zuko. So Aang revealing himself should not happen.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

Survey Analysis:

Two things bear significance about this survey, the first being the actual content of the questions, and the second being people’s reactions to the questions. I am fairly certain that Uncle Iroh has made his identity known based on reactions to the survey.

Spoiler : Analysis of the survey questions :

Just for fun:

This question was intended to hint at various colors associated with the different tribes. I wanted to see who would be a town tryhard and pick blue/green vs. who would be bold enough to pick red (the color of the fire nation). I think it is a towntell that Wang Fire had the balls to pick red as his color which shows that he has little to hide.

Pick one of these:
(a) red
(b) blue
(c) green
(d) white

This is a simple filler question. I just wanted to have a pick 2 so that I could ask a pick four without seeming random.

Pick two of these:
(a) lemur
(b) unagi
(c) sky bison
(d) canyon crawler
(e) dragon moose
(f) hermit crab
(g) purple pentapus

This is a simple filler question. I just wanted to have a pick 3 so that I could ask a pick four without seeming random.

Pick three of these:
(a) water bending scroll
(b) Katara's mom's necklace
(c) purple berries
(d) headpiece of the crown prince of the Fire Nation
(e) rare first edition book
(f) Aang's wanted poster
(g) specially-tied knot
(h) Sozin's comet

This question was meant to be a way to get stealth Aang/not Aang claims from players. In the series, Aang picks a clay turtle, pull string propeller, a wooden monkey, and a wooden hand drum which are symbolized to represent the four nations and were once the toys of the previous Air Nomad Avatars. You might get upset with me for trying to draw out 5 stealth claims of Aang/not Aang, but my rationale was not to actually find Aang/not Aang because not everyone here will know the Avatar RP enough to know that picking a series of four items is an Aang claim. My main motivation was to try to see how people who know the rp of the series would respond to some blatant Aang/not Aang rolefishing.

Pick four of these:
(a) wooden monkey
(b) stuffed cat
(c) wooden hand drum
(d) paper airplane
(e) clay turtle
(f) redemption orb
(g) water from the spirit oasis
(h) pull-string propeller

And look: someone noticed the role fishing! More about him later.

Bad role fishing detected.

Spoiler : Questionairre responses for reference :

I'll pick red because that's my color! (a) Red.

The second pick will be this: (a) lemur and (e) dragon moose.

The third choice will be this: (c) purple berries, (d) headpiece of the crown prince of the Fire Nation and (e) rare first edition book.

The fourth choice will be this: (a) wooden monkey, (b) stuffed cat, (e) clay turtle and (f) redemption orb.

(b) blue

(c) sky bison
(e) dragon moose

(b) Katara's mom's necklace
(e) rare first edition book
(g) specially-tied knot

(d) paper airplane
(e) clay turtle
(f) redemption orb
(g) water from the spirit oasis

(b) blue

(d) canyon crawler
(f) hermit crab

(a) water bending scroll
(g) specially-tied knot
(h) Sozin's comet

(a) wooden monkey
(c) wooden hand drum
(d) paper airplane
(e) clay turtle

(b) blue

(e) dragon moose
(f) hermit crab

(a) water bending scroll
(c) purple berries
(e) rare first edition book

(a) wooden monkey
(c) wooden hand drum
(e) clay turtle
(g) water from the spirit oasis

(b) blue

(c) sky bison
(d) canyon crawler

(b) Katara's mom's necklace
(e) rare first edition book
(h) Sozin's comet

(a) wooden monkey
(c) wooden hand drum
(g) water from the spirit oasis
(h) pull-string propeller

Spoiler : What I learned from non-response responses to the survey :

Lion Turtle, La, and Pathik know their Avatar lore. It’s questionable/uncertain if others do or not. I would expect the three of them to know the meaning of the fourth survey question.

Pathik and La chose not to respond to the survey or call me out on it. What does this mean? Not really sure if I can draw meaningful conclusions yet.

However, Lion Turtle did respond. Let’s look at an assortment of Lion Turtle’s posts and see what we can find.

GOSH FREAKING DARNIT. I lost my post.

Basically, there is no maf jailor, town jailor only jails on no lynch days, Zuko on all days. Zuko must see town lose unless he captures Aang, and town must see Zuko lose unless Aang visits Iroh. So the question becomes, should town roleclaim to Zuko in the hope that he finds Aang(assuming Aang lives that long), or what? I think we should claim Aang/not Aang to Zuko, and roleclaim to Bumi(town jailor)

Lion Turtle starts out as wanting people to claim Aang/not Aang in jail to Zuko. Very pro-traitor.

The roleclaim part should be ignored as we have no way of differentiating between Zuko/Bum on no lynch days. Good job on missing that one, brain...

Backtracks a little bit, maybe he feels like his first post was too aggressively pro-traitor?

Reading comprehension level: too low to calculate. Please try again. I said we should claim Aang/not Aang, not expose ourselves. That is what I want to AVOID. People outing themselves on the HOPE that Zuko captures Aang AND Aang visits Iroh(although Zuko could tell Aang who Iroh is and have him visit him then, but then he risks a fire nation claiming Aang to out Iroh).

Again, try and understand what I'm saying before having a knee-jerk reaction. I'm trying to get as many allies for the town with as few risks as possible.

Lion Turtle seems WAAAAY too protective of Iroh in this post. Zuko/everyone in the whole game can win without Uncle Iroh, which first made me suspicious that Lion Turtle could be Uncle Iroh/traitor aligned. In my opinion this makes sense, as all his posts are really pro-traitor evolving win conditions.

Bad role fishing detected.

In this post, Lion Turtle calls me out on my survey, but doesn’t attempt to explain the survey or to stop the role fishing. It’s like he’s telling me that he knows what I’m doing but he wants to gain information about Aang/not Aang claims so he chooses not to explain what I’m doing. If Lion Turtle was town and wanted to protect Aang he could have explained the survey and why it was role fishing.

As a side note, I’d like to add that the survey can give Aang some rp protection because maybe the real Aang chose filling out the survey as an opportunity to fake claim not Aang.

Won't work. Iroh won't go for it, since his goal is to survive either to the end, or until Zuko meets Aang.

Lion Turtle makes another huge protective post about Uncle Iroh. Everyone else is mostly of the opinion “screw Uncle Iroh if we find him.” I find this really interesting.

You pre-suppose that you know out of the 20(?)players which one is Iroh. And as I don't see Iroh revealing himself to LOSE your plan fails.

I think that we can scumhunt for Uncle Iroh. It seems like Lion Turtle is Uncle Iroh. I think that because of this, Lion Turtle is a good lynch target in order to potentially turn Zuko into a blue spirit to give Aang night immunity.

With this,I would like to say that if anyone is forced to role claim and they are water/earth tribe, they should simply claim citizen rather than specific tribes.

Super anti-Freedom Fighters post. Lion Turtle is not Jet.

Iagree with Momo. Not only are the chances of Aang being jailed low, but the chances of Aang visiting Iroh are low,and with the idea of killing Iroh to force Zuko to be town floating around,no way will Zuko tell anyone who Iroh is.

Another really protective-of-Uncle-Iroh post.

The only reason I say claim cit rather than tribe is because then the fire nation will not know who is water tribe, and therefore cannot hunt for Tui. If they kill Tui, they can win with FFs and traitors; as I said earlier, I want as many allies for town as possible, and letting the mafia get allies = bad.

Kyoshi, do you really believe we'll have every cit outed at the same time? Maybe later on in the game, but certainly not now.

The FF thing is a good point though. But is tracking the FFs worth letting the mafia get allies?(granted the chances of them getting allies is as slim as us getting allies, but it still deserves discussion)

Lion Turtle brings out the anti-Fire Nation guns and wants prevent mafia from killing Tui to have an easier wincon. Notice also some key slips in this post:

“I want as many allies for town as possible” -> implies that Lion Turtle is not town. If he was town he would say “I want as many allies for us as possible.

“granted the chances of [mafia] getting allies is as slim as us getting allies, but it still deserves discussion” -> the evolved conditions for the traitors seems slimmer than the ones for team avatar imo, as Iroh has night immunity and Aang just needs to recruit 2 guys to Bumi and Paku.

Also, to help clarify my argument:

If player A claims Water Tribe Cit, they have a 1/3 chance of being Tui(assuming they aren't lying). That's a pretty good chance, and I think the maf would take that chance and kill that player to try and gain allies before the town does.

OR, player A could simply claim Citizen. Now it's a 1/8 chance of being Tui(assuming they aren't lying). Not such a good chance.

TL;DR: Claiming just cit and not water/earth cit gives Tui more protection, thereby giving the town more protection by lessening the chances of FFs/traitors aligning with maf.

Lion Turtle seems really really worried by the FF and mafia. Why is he never worrying about Zuko’s initial condition to defeat team avatar? Seems really pro-traitor again.

Sorry, FFs cannot align with maf; mafia can just win in spite of them and do not NEED to kill them if they kill Tui.

My entire plan ofc depends on what happens if Tui is visited by maf and Aang at the same time. If FNs condition evolves anyway, then I believe it should be enacted. If it doesn't, then we need to discuss whether or not to enact it anyway, or come up with something else.

@Momo what would she claim? PR? That'd make her an even bigger target. Neutral? Still a target. Etc, etc. Universal cit IS her safest claim.

@Warrior: this depends on FF cooperation, which we most likely will not get if they don't get Katara. Good plan, but I don't know how feasible it is.

Lion Turtle likes my anti-FF plan but comments on how it’s not feasible when he himself is advocating some really unfeasible stuff that is instead really pro-traitor

If you don’t feel like reading through all the spoilers, the tl;dr is that I think that Lion Turtle is Uncle Iroh and Wang Fire is town.

[Yangchen]

So this means that Aang will die if jailed and not executed by Zuko. So Aang revealing himself should not happen.

Lul.
I feel personally ashamed of myself for not seeing this.
And curious how Wan Shing Ton, who berated others for lack of intelligence, missed it.

[Wan Shi Tong]

Lul.
I feel personally ashamed of myself for not seeing this.
And curious how Wan Shing Ton, who berated others for lack of intelligence, missed it.

WAT

Where or when did I ever do that?

[Yangchen]

@KW #3

Analyze the others who took the survey please

[Hama]

So this means that Aang will die if jailed and not executed by Zuko. So Aang revealing himself should not happen.

Not only that, but apparently Zuko and Uncle Ihoh don't even know each other!? I admit I'm pretty frustrated right now that these points aren't clear from the setup and we would never have even suspected such had the questions not been asked. I wonder what else we don't know.

[Yangchen]

WAT

Where or when did I ever do that?

Ok. I admit I was stretching things out there. No berating and instead silent observation. But point still in play.

[Hama]

Tbh, it makes me wonder if Roku realised the game was broken and tried to break our plan by updating the rules.

[Yangchen]

Tbh, it makes me wonder if Roku realised the game was broken and tried to break our plan by updating the rules.

Its reasonable to suggest that they learn who the other is upon the night phase.
Jsyk this is why we ask questions. Also its why we read what questions other people ask.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

@KW #3

Analyze the others who took the survey please

I refer you to my post #219. Don't have updated reads since then. Players I didn't mention, I declined to post analysis on to protect my town reads.

[Yangchen]

I refer you to my post #219. Don't have updated reads since then. Players I didn't mention, I declined to post analysis on to protect my town reads.

Ok

[Due]

Preliminary Reads List ([COLOR="#800080"]Non-posters[/COLOR
Neutral denotes central on the spectrum of Town-Mafia

Due - Townish

If you don’t feel like reading through all the spoilers, the tl;dr is that I think that Lion Turtle is Uncle Iroh and Wang Fire is town.

Ok. I admit I was stretching things out there. No berating and instead silent observation. But point still in play.

[Due]

Ok

Spoiler : img :

[Due]

[Hama]

The low posters are more suspicious than the non-posters.

The low posters clearly are aware that the game has started.

The non-posters could be forgiven for that.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

I refer you to #219. Hama and Pathik are my mafia suspects. Too tired to post another textwall right now, but I posted reasons (without quotes) in that previous post.

[Hama]

I refer you to #219. Hama and Pathik are my mafia suspects. Too tired to post another textwall right now, but I posted reasons (without quotes) in that previous post.

FoS:
Hama - pro-traitor, wants aang to reveal (yes, this is really pro-traitor) although his plan doesn't work if mafia has a bruiser. I feel like he's hiding something and isn't town because of his willingness to gamble Aang's life that mafia doesn't have a bruiser. Or does he know something we don't (i.e. is mafia with a bruiser). I'm noting that Hama's proposed mafia role list does not have a bruiser on it.

DUN DUN DUN!

This is an example of cognitive dissonance. In one post you say I am Traitor, but then in the next you reference the first post where you say I am a Mafia. They are opposing factions and opposing ideas. This suggests to me that you don't believe either point, yet you try to convince us of its validity anyway.

[Hama]

Not to mention that this whole argument became redundant as soon I proposed an updated plan that worked regardless of a Bruiser's existence.

[Due]

I refer you to #219. Hama and Pathik are my mafia suspects. Too tired to post another textwall right now, but I posted reasons (without quotes) in that previous post.

[Hama]

I wonder if these off-site night chats will allow you to post in pictoral form.

[Due]

I wonder if these off-site night chats will allow you to post in pictoral form.

Spoiler : img :

[Due]

FoS:
Hama - pro-traitor, wants aang to reveal (yes, this is really pro-traitor) although his plan doesn't work if mafia has a bruiser. I feel like he's hiding something and isn't town because of his willingness to gamble Aang's life that mafia doesn't have a bruiser. Or does he know something we don't (i.e. is mafia with a bruiser). I'm noting that Hama's proposed mafia role list does not have a bruiser on it.

Lion Turtle – keeps backtracking statements and waffling. Tries hard to seem anti-fire nation and pro-traitor

Pathik – votes systematically, seems odd like he wants to come up with justifications for everything he does. Responds promptly to pressure, seems like there is something to hide

Kyoshi (1 [L-10]): Kyoshi Warrior #3

-vote Kyoshi Warrior #3

[Lion Turtle]

Mm-hmm. So apparently the only reason I'm being FoSed is because I'm anti-FN(lol) and I try too hard to ally Town with the Traitors as apposed to the FFs. Did I get that right? Oh, and apparently I somehow attempted to make a cover for lurking somewhere... I assume you mean in my troll response to, I believe it was Hama or Yang. No. Just no. I dislike how people constantly assume other people to be utterly retarded(which you essentially called me by assuming I'd do something so stupid.)

I'm really amused with KW3's survey thing, since I did know it was role-fishing of a sort, but I thought you were fishing for something else. Specifically, Citizens. I also was curious where you were going with it; your conclusions on the matter could be indicative of alignment. It's obvious you're not a Traitor, as you'd want to keep pro-traitor people alive. Could very well be Jet, since your list seems perfect to find Citizens to convert. You also want to eliminate Pro-Traitor support. Second guess would be Mafia, as they would want to stop conversions/find Tui, and find Aang.

Also most of your points are bogus. You call out several replies as "pro-Traitor" which are in actuality responses to people with misconceptions. Like wanting Iroh to out himself just to lose, having Zuko outing his only true ally, etc. You then call out this segment

“I want as many allies for town as possible” -> implies that Lion Turtle is not town. If he was town he would say “I want as many allies for us as possible.

“granted the chances of [mafia] getting allies is as slim as us getting allies, but it still deserves discussion”

Funny how you center on the first part, but not the second. You're cherry-picking things I say to color me as Traitor. This I find heavily suspicious, as FN could easily capitalize on my, yes, very obviously pro-traitor stance. Jet could do this as well, but to a much lesser extent.

Also, I never said my plan for allying with the Traitors was feasible; I said several times I wanted input from others to decide if my plan was a good one or not, but it never came.

However, I find it unlikely you're Jet, as if you are you would be hunting for Iroh to keep him ALIVE, since Jet's condition is always to kill Aang. Which means you are either Town trying to help and failing, or Mafia trying to mislynch and say "Oops. Sorry, I really thought he was Iroh..." And yes, that is a not-Iroh claim.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

DUN DUN DUN!

This is an example of cognitive dissonance. In one post you say I am Traitor, but then in the next you reference the first post where you say I am a Mafia. They are opposing factions and opposing ideas. This suggests to me that you don't believe either point, yet you try to convince us of its validity anyway.

This is a huge misrep of my post. Post #219 I say you are either traitor or mafia, in my most recent post (after concluding that Lion Turtle is most likely traitor, I stated that you are my mafia suspect. There is no cognitive dissonance, merely reasoning leading to new conclusions.

Not to mention that this whole argument became redundant as soon I proposed an updated plan that worked regardless of a Bruiser's existence.

My argument against you as mafia was dual pronged. You haven't addressed the part where I accused you of trying to shape the way we view the hidden mafia roles by saying things like Framers or Bruisers aren't likely. I just felt like the part about the framer, specifically sets you up for a fake investigative PR claim. I'm not so willing to say a Framer is unlikely just yet.

I'm starting to sense a possible connection between Hama/Due or possibly Pathik/Due. Will read up on this later.

@Due: I'll keep my vote wherever I want, thank you. Won't be bullied into changing it. I have my reasons.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

Mm-hmm. So apparently the only reason I'm being FoSed is because I'm anti-FN(lol) and I try too hard to ally Town with the Traitors as apposed to the FFs. Did I get that right? Oh, and apparently I somehow attempted to make a cover for lurking somewhere... I assume you mean in my troll response to, I believe it was Hama or Yang. No. Just no. I dislike how people constantly assume other people to be utterly retarded(which you essentially called me by assuming I'd do something so stupid.)

Nope. The reason you are being FOS'ed is because you are not town. Nowhere in this reply do you assert that you are, in fact a townie. Seems mighty suspicious to me.

I'm really amused with KW3's survey thing, since I did know it was role-fishing of a sort, but I thought you were fishing for something else. Specifically, Citizens. I also was curious where you were going with it; your conclusions on the matter could be indicative of alignment. It's obvious you're not a Traitor, as you'd want to keep pro-traitor people alive. Could very well be Jet, since your list seems perfect to find Citizens to convert. You also want to eliminate Pro-Traitor support. Second guess would be Mafia, as they would want to stop conversions/find Tui, and find Aang.

Was fishing purely for reactions to the survey rather than actual survey responses. Although I would have gotten a huge kick out of it if someone decided to stealth claim Aang just for the lolz. Make whatever conclusions you want about my alignment; my goal is to spark discussion and make posts that people will respond to in ways that can tell me things about their own alignments. I'm surprised people haven't said more about my anti-Jet posts.

Also most of your points are bogus. You call out several replies as "pro-Traitor" which are in actuality responses to people with misconceptions. Like wanting Iroh to out himself just to lose, having Zuko outing his only true ally, etc. You then call out this segment

Funny how you center on the first part, but not the second. You're cherry-picking things I say to color me as Traitor. This I find heavily suspicious, as FN could easily capitalize on my, yes, very obviously pro-traitor stance. Jet could do this as well, but to a much lesser extent.

Your words were really revealing. I picked out the evidence to present to everyone so they can pass their own judgment. Do I think you made a scumslip, yeah. So did I point it out? Of course. I'm always going to call out non-town because it could help others with more information that I have.

Also, I never said my plan for allying with the Traitors was feasible; I said several times I wanted input from others to decide if my plan was a good one or not, but it never came.

Then why bother us with ill conceived plans that you haven't fully thought through?

However, I find it unlikely you're Jet, as if you are you would be hunting for Iroh to keep him ALIVE, since Jet's condition is always to kill Aang. Which means you are either Town trying to help and failing, or Mafia trying to mislynch and say "Oops. Sorry, I really thought he was Iroh..." And yes, that is a not-Iroh claim.

Interesting. But I think that Iroh would try to claim not-Iroh. Also tell me this: Why does mafia try to lynch Iroh, the survivor who can win with them if his win condition doesn't evolve? That's ridiculous. But my motivation for trying to find Iroh is so that we can lynch him, Zuko turns into the Blue Spirit, and Aang gets his immunity.

[Lion Turtle]

Nope. The reason you are being FOS'ed is because you are not town. Nowhere in this reply do you assert that you are, in fact a townie. Seems mighty suspicious to me.

If you knew me, you would know I never assert myself to be Town unless I am in a position to be trusted as such.

Your words were really revealing. I picked out the evidence to present to everyone so they can pass their own judgment. Do I think you made a scumslip, yeah. So did I point it out? Of course. I'm always going to call out non-town because it could help others with more information that I have.

You are still assuming that I am non-town, where the only evidence is a few posts on d1 that may or may not actually be indicative of my alignment; you say yourself you think I made a scumslip. I know I did not, as I know what I said, and I know I was de-bunking bad plans that had bad assumptions as their basis.

Then why bother us with ill conceived plans that you haven't fully thought through?

Again, if you knew me, you would know that I need to bounce ideas off of other people to iron them out; I do better when I have people to discuss things with, outside perspectives that can see things that I can't. Unless I am 100% sure my plan is feasible, I will not say it is such, and will instead present it as a possibility and ask people for their opinions to see if it can be improved.

Interesting. But I think that Iroh would try to claim not-Iroh. Also tell me this: Why does mafia try to lynch Iroh, the survivor who can win with them if his win condition doesn't evolve? That's ridiculous. But my motivation for trying to find Iroh is so that we can lynch him, Zuko turns into the Blue Spirit, and Aang gets his immunity.

Bingo. Right here. My motivation with calling you Mafia was to see your reaction; this proves you have a town mindset. Whether you're scum pulling some gambit is yet to be seen, (unlikely, as the risk of your lynch going through could be severely damaging. However if you could successfully find Iroh, I doubt you'd lack the confidence to also find Zuko as well.) but with this reply I'm fairly certain you're a Town who has come to the wrong conclusion about me because of the way I conduct myself.

Annnd yeah. I'm going to go to bed, and if you have anything else to put to me, I will answer it in the morning. Good night, peoplez.

[Wang Fire]

But my motivation for trying to find Iroh is so that we can lynch him, Zuko turns into the Blue Spirit, and Aang gets his immunity.

Or maybe you are just simply bloodthisrsty. Tell us a good reason why we should not lynch you instead.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

Annnd yeah. I'm going to go to bed, and if you have anything else to put to me, I will answer it in the morning. Good night, peoplez.

So your whole response to me is basically "You don't know me, don't judge me." And a huge backtrack on calling me mafia and now calling me a town read? Seems really scummy like you're trying to placate one of your biggest lynch advocates. In any case, I stand by my Uncle Iroh read on you. Hopefully others can comment about whether they agree/disagree.

Or maybe you are just simply bloodthisrsty. Tell us a good reason why we should not lynch you instead.

I'm a better town asset while alive than dead. So call me bloodthirsty. Maybe I am. I'm not afraid to ask Zuko to betray Uncle Iroh or the recruited freedom fighters to betray Jet in order to ensure a town win. Fire Sage Shyu already has to backstab Admiral Zhao in order to win.

[Hama]

You haven't addressed the part where I accused you of trying to shape the way we view the hidden mafia roles by saying things like Framers or Bruisers aren't likely. I just felt like the part about the framer, specifically sets you up for a fake investigative PR claim. I'm not so willing to say a Framer is unlikely just yet.

You're saying it's suspicious for us to speculate what Mafia roles are in the game?

Hmmmm.

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

You're saying it's suspicious for us to speculate what Mafia roles are in the game?

Hmmmm.

It's suspicious for you to tell people that we shouldn't worry about Bruisers or Framers since they are "unlikely" to be in the game. I don't want people to get lured into a false sense of security when Slaol has been known to put "unlikely" roles in his M-FMs in the past. I think it's a bit too early to say at this point.

[Hama]

You're saying it's suspicious for us to speculate what Mafia roles are in the game?

Hmmmm.

It's suspicious for you to tell people that we shouldn't worry about Bruisers or Framers since they are "unlikely" to be in the game. I don't want people to get lured into a false sense of security when Slaol has been known to put "unlikely" roles in his M-FMs in the past. I think it's a bit too early to say at this point.

Let's get some ideas on what roles the Mafia/Fire Nation might have. The Mafia looks to be in a similar format to the last FM(also hosted by Slaol) (1 leader and a number of unspecified roles). They weren't random mafia. They had been assigned and I would suspect that is exactly the same case here.

There are 3 of the following:


Oin: Initially, I thought he was underpowered because they'd have to give the weapons to opposing factions which doesn't sound like a grand recipe for success. Though maybe a shrewd player could make this work in their favour. This role looks like more of a curse than a boon, but it does require clever thinking so it's possible.

Yuyan/Bruiser/Mafioso: Yuyan looks like a weaker version of the Bruiser. I've already spoken about the Bruiser in an earlier post. The Mafioso would seem like a terrific waste of a slot when there are only 4 mafia, not to mention that the name Mafioso doesn't remotely fit with the RP. I suspect there's only 1/3 of these roles and that it's the Yuyan archer.

Consigliere/Consort/Blackmailer: These are powerful and very useful mafia roles. I'd expect at least one of them.

Malu/Shyu: The uniqueness of these roles makes me almost certain they're in the setup. If it was me I would make Shyu the Yuyan archer.

Framer: Less useful in this setup than in others. Seems unlikely to appear.

My proposed role list:

Admiral Zhao
Fire Sage Shyu the Yuyan Archer
Malu the Magician
Consort/Consigliere/Blackmailer

-vote Kyoshi Warrior #3

[Hama]

For anybody seeking an explanation of why I believe a Framer unlikely:

A Framer can only affect 2 Town roles:
1. Sokka but ONLY IF TOWN DOESN'T LYNCH DAY BEFORE.
2. Hakoda, except Hakoda starts at a Citizen and needs to meet Aang before he gains his powers.

Ie: 90% of the time there would be nothing for a Framer to do. A Framer probably only exists if Slaol wanted to gimp the Fire nation team.

[Sangok]

-vote Kyoshi Warrior #3

I have figured it out!

Aang reveals today.
Zuko jails him tonight.
Zuko informs Aang the identity of Uncle Iroh.
Day 2 Aang informs us of the identity of Uncle Iroh.
We lynch Uncle Iroh.
Zuko automatically becomes the Blue Spirit.
Aang is subsequently immune to all death.

The Fire Nation never has the opportunity to hurt Aang. N1 he is protected by Zuko's jail. N2 onwards he is immune because of the Blue Spirit.

kyoshi has a good point and yet you try to ignore the fact that your plan might be flawed and you're acting like you know everything. drop the plan, it ain't gonna work.

if you read the setup thoroughly before posting this, we wouldn't be at the problem of you intentionally proposing a plan of Aang revealing, or you just didn't read the setup.

unfortunately, the plan will not work even if it was your intention of contributing to the town.

Here are some preliminary reads. (Mostly people that need to contribute more and my FoS):

Spammy/lurky, need to post more content (Please fill out my survey in post #103 as an easy way to contribute):
Due – posts really annoying lolcats, it's hard to understand what this guy is even saying because of the format of his posts

Jin Wei - no read

June - anti-Traitor b/c wants to sacrifice Iroh

Koh - no read

Kuruk – a little trolly, seems angry. Says his long useful posts keep getting lost/not posting.

Monk Gyatso – no read

Sangok – very trolly, attacks Hama

Tho – no read

Wan Shi Tong – no read

Wei Jin - no read

FoS:
Hama - pro-traitor, wants aang to reveal (yes, this is really pro-traitor) although his plan doesn't work if mafia has a bruiser. I feel like he's hiding something and isn't town because of his willingness to gamble Aang's life that mafia doesn't have a bruiser. Or does he know something we don't (i.e. is mafia with a bruiser). I'm noting that Hama's proposed mafia role list does not have a bruiser on it.

Lion Turtle – keeps backtracking statements and waffling. Tries hard to seem anti-fire nation and pro-traitor

Pathik – votes systematically, seems odd like he wants to come up with justifications for everything he does. Responds promptly to pressure, seems like there is something to hide



...and I have some more things to say after at least 5 people have taken my survey. We are now at 3/5.

i like these reads, i like the trolly part. that was my goal to troll and have some fun. however, i attacked hama because he made no sense at all and attacked me ^^

What a bad answer. Thank you.


@KW #3

Are you withholding information to get people to use your.. rather bland questionnaire?

even if this is true, i would like some people to take a look at this survey and post something instead of lurking and waiting until some serious discussion arises. unless somebody has a better discussion topic and a plan of what we should do, we should answer questions and start solving this.

For anybody seeking an explanation of why I believe a Framer unlikely:

A Framer can only affect 2 Town roles:
1. Sokka but ONLY IF TOWN DOESN'T LYNCH DAY BEFORE.
2. Hakoda, except Hakoda starts at a Citizen and needs to meet Aang before he gains his powers.

Ie: 90% of the time there would be nothing for a Framer to do. A Framer probably only exists if Slaol wanted to gimp the Fire nation team.

i really don't think a 20 person major game would select roles based on hand-picking. unless the host actually handpicked a role, there is no probability of anything and we simply cannot jump to conclusions.

[Hama]

Do the Fire Nations members know who their fellow allies are yet?

[Sangok]

huge wall of text here. it's my preliminary readings on people.

Spoiler : pre-reads :

Due - seems trolly, uses memes to communicate with others in a very limited way, like a computer instead its with pictures created by man. neutral as of now.

Hama - jumps to conclusions, rejected another's observation and said some idiotic things in the beginning (might have been an attempt at a joke or troll), but other than that he sounds pro-town or a

traitor trying to exploit the town.

Huu - his posts were mostly introductory, only one being a collaborative one. until more posts are made from him, i can only tell that he is neutral.

Jin Wei - has not made any posts as of now.

June - post farming, trolling, other stupid stuff. not really contributing despite his 14 post count. until he collaborates, there is no way of telling what he is.

Koh - has not made any posts as of now.

Kuruk - other than saying he was about to post a huge wall of text, he has not contributed and raged at the site itself.

Kyoshi - pro-town, contributes although he is a tad less active than other people.

Kyoshi Warrior #3 - pro-town, acts like the mayor, takes leadership, tries to resort people to contributing and not just trolling and post-farming.

La - up to this point, contributing and not trolly or scummy at all. gives his own observations and keeps open to others. pro-town.

Lion Turtle - contributing, active, pro-town. i like him. he's a lion turtle too, so who's going to reject his thoughts? he's the wise one here.

Momo - an animal that talks. you can't expect a talking animal to contribute.

Monk Gyatso - has not posted up to this point.

Pathik - posted his pre-leads and trying to contribute.

Tho - three posts, not contributing, i hope he posts a bit more.

Yangchen - highest post count here. makes observations and keeps active.

Wan Shi Tong - more trolly than me. really, make some more posts that actually relate to the topic plz.

Wang Fire - trolly, no posts that contribute.

Wei Jin - helpful, and i like his observance and trying not to act like a know-it-all, unlike hama he lays off a bit and just listens to others and gives feedback.

[Guru Pathik]

Do the Fire Nations members know who their fellow allies are yet?

Indeed

[Sangok]

Is there a limit on how many people Aang can speak to and assign RP names / roles?

[Guru Pathik]

Is there a limit on how many people Aang can speak to and assign RP names / roles?

In 8 months time Sozin's comet will come. You must defeat the Fire Lord before then.

[Hama]

In 8 months time Sozin's comet will come. You must defeat the Fire Lord before then.

LOL.

[Guru Pathik]

All answers past this point will be given in full Avatar Roku RP.

[Sangok]

In 8 months time Sozin's comet will come. You must defeat the Fire Lord before then.

How will Aang use his primary ability to recruit others in order to defeat the Fire Lord under Sozin's Comet?

[Guru Pathik]

How will Aang use his primary ability to recruit others in order to defeat the Fire Lord under Sozin's Comet?

If anyone's to blame for the state of the world, it is me. I should have seen this war coming, and prevented it.

Wut?

[Kyoshi Warrior #3]

Ie: 90% of the time there would be nothing for a Framer to do. A Framer probably only exists if Slaol wanted to gimp the Fire nation team.

Remember though, that Slaol and Gerik are hosting this, and they love Framers. Gerik's first MVP was in FM 16 as a Framer. Now I completely agree with you that a Framer would totally gimp the Fire Nation team, but M-FM Cops and robbers (also hosted by slaol) also had what I would consider a purposefully gimped mafia team that had really situationally relevant roles.

tl;dr it's not as simple as you might think, but anyone saying that there's not going to be a framer raises my suspicions simply because of the hosts' huge boner for framers.

[Hama]

Remember though, that Slaol and Gerik are hosting this, and they love Framers. Gerik's first MVP was in FM 16 as a Framer. Now I completely agree with you that a Framer would totally gimp the Fire Nation team, but M-FM Cops and robbers (also hosted by slaol) also had what I would consider a purposefully gimped mafia team that had really situationally relevant roles.

tl;dr it's not as simple as you might think, but anyone saying that there's not going to be a framer raises my suspicions simply because of the hosts' huge boner for framers.

KW3, those are certainly fair reasons for why there could be a Framer and I happily accept that. I never said there isn't a Framer. I said I don't think it's likely. I'm always happy to read rebuttals backed up by reasoning (like you've done here).

My purpose in speculating on the role-list is to stimulate discussion and amass people's views to hopefully come to a better common understanding than we would individually, as well as to create a framework that we can build on to gradually place scum. The idea isn't to make hard and fast calls that are sealed in stone. I'm conveying my ideas. I don't expect them to be 100% correct, but everything must start somewhere.

[Pathik]

On phone, scum prospects:
Huu, kyoshi, tho

-vote kyoshi

I strongly agree with everyone posting their 3 scumspects today. It gives us more info to work on relevant to what today/tonight flips. I would ideally like a preliminary read list from everyone today, but I'd suffice with one from from just scumspects.

I believe it would also be useful for everyone to post their opinions on the traitors/what do with them (just people who haven't taken a stance yet). I personally believe they should be considered enemies til win conditions evolve to make us believe otherwise. Keep in mind win conditions don't evolve with a reciprocal relationship. Just because team avatar/traitors can win with the other, does not mean it is a 2 way relationship (one faction may still be against the other). I'd hesitate to call someone an ally til both win conditions evolve, and we don't even get direct evidence whether it has occurred.

Also interesting answer from roku on smellerbee. If one appears they are permanently aligned as FF, reducing the liklihood they'll all sell out jet/align back with town. Careful to recommend popping earth Kingdom claims every which way.

[Hama]

Also interesting answer from roku on smellerbee. If one appears they are permanently aligned as FF, reducing the liklihood they'll all sell out jet/align back with town. Careful to recommend popping earth Kingdom claims every which way.

Claims like this one?

I also recieved a notification about me beeing a member of the earth clan. I don't know what that means. I guess it could mean that im one of the good guys?

[Pathik]

Yes, exactly like that. I read it as a trolling/fake claim, but that was part of the reason he earned the title scumspect.