M-FM XIX The Curse of Castle Varen Gamethread

[Elisha Wilkner]

.. you seriously think you aren't getting defensive. girl you craycray!

I define "getting defensive" as overreacting.

In my case I'm ridiculing others while having a "discussion" as best as possible while ridiculing someone.

[Ace Chapman]

Actually it was moderately explored by myself and Charles when I asked him what he thought about Pepper/Elisha being Lord/Lady Varen.

Also, I took it as an accusation because of this:

I don't think you're an Agent, though. And it's not anti-town to point out possible Mafia/Neutral relationships to the town. Pointing out someone I think is a possibile scum is now scummy?

You say i'm just trying to discredit you, while at the same time you're trying to discredit me and discourage further discussion on about the idea I presented to the town. It's hypocritical and hypocrits are almost always scum.

I never said you started the train, but the reasons for voting both of them were basically the same. Yet, you refused to vote Pepper but had no problem voting Sidney.

At least my actions are consistent.

These two things imply that you are accusing her of being scummy, and your third bit implies that that is the reason you believe she is scum. Easily misconstrued as an accusation.

One thing I do like is that you are now participating. Congratz, you're a little less scummier than before..

@Sidney: I would love to pressure another person, but you keep coming in here spouting out rehashed arguments that are getting us nowhere and it's very hard to overlook that. Please, quit asking the same freaking question and expecting a different answer. If you really wanted something out of Elisha, you'd stop, figure out what question to ask her to get her to give a better explanation, then you'd ask it. All I see out of you is, as I stated previously, asking her the same question and expecting a different answer.

[Sidney Huffman]

Actually it was moderately explored by myself and Charles when I asked him what he thought about Pepper/Elisha being Lord/Lady Varen.

Also, I took it as an accusation because of this:


These two things imply that you are accusing her of being scummy, and your third bit implies that that is the reason you believe she is scum. Easily misconstrued as an accusation.

One thing I do like is that you are now participating. Congratz, you're a little less scummier than before..

@Sidney: I would love to pressure another person, but you keep coming in here spouting out rehashed arguments that are getting us nowhere and it's very hard to overlook that. Please, quit asking the same freaking question and expecting a different answer. If you really wanted something out of Elisha, you'd stop, figure out what question to ask her to get her to give a better explanation, then you'd ask it. All I see out of you is, as I stated previously, asking her the same question and expecting a different answer.

then fucking pressure someone. as i said you arent getting any more information out of me today.

between the ppl currently posting (baxter, elisha, and you) elisha seems the most scummy. so rather than pose hypothetical question to ppl that arent here, i will pressure the one i know is here.

the pressure against me was nothing more than a fishing expedition that was jumped on by scum to hopefully pull off a day1 lynch. so i will use the same tactics.

hell, why dont we just have a day1 role call for all the good that pressuring me day1 would accomplish.

[Pete Pendelman]

im back just read last posts and stuff is getting heated between Elisha and Sidney

i have to say how is ace's post referral

Also, Baxter, I did some digging and just to prove you did not read: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...e-Varen/page13 Page 13. Jordan accuses Elisha of the exact same thing you just did and she defended herself. Please, prove to us more that you don't read.

what i just quoted is no satisfactory so that is noted on my really high scum list

[Elisha Wilkner]

You call asking questions and expecting clear answers a "fishing expedition"? Are you retarded? l0l

[Pete Pendelman]

A snip

hell, why dont we just have a day1 role call for all the good that pressuring me day1 would accomplish.

not true at all and if your serious bout role-call you are scum

[Tommy Calhoun]

Funny how I left earlier b ysaying that we aren't pressuring enough. Now I come back and there isn't a single new vote on any of those who haven't contributed at all.

[Pete Pendelman]

but your prob not serious still really scummy

[Ace Chapman]

The reason I'm not pressuring someone is because it'll be pointless. Everyone here has established that they will talk without pressure, so I'm not going to vote until there is good reason to do so. Meanwhile, the questions are helpful. I'd like to suggest that you take my advice and question Elisha in a way that'll get her to talk about the things that you want answers to do.

Also, if I were to pressure one person, it'd be Laura, simply because she hasn't posted a lot and I want to get to know her better so I can make a better assessment of her. I don't think she's scummy enough to warrant a vote right now, but do note that I advocate pressuring her.

Pete, how is it scummy? I saw that Baxter and Sidney were asking the same question that Jordan had asked, so rather than waste time I referred them to a point in the thread in which their questions were answered. It is most definitely not my fault if they didn't phrase their questions in a way that made it clear that they wanted more out of Elisha than what she had already given.

[Tommy Calhoun]

Well. Since you failed to put pressure on them, all I can do now is to revert my vote and hope that we can at least get one scum today.

-vote Sidney Huffman

[Ace Chapman]

I'd like to rephrase that first bit because that is not what I meant. Pressure is most definitely useful, but the targets that Sidney listed were, imo, not worth it.

[Tommy Calhoun]

I'd like to rephrase that first bit because that is not what I meant. Pressure is most definitely useful, but the targets that Sidney listed were, imo, not worth it.

Who gives a flying fuck about Sidney? You should pressure whoever you want to get some info from.

[Pete Pendelman]

i contibuted lightly

quote

Every little helps

so tommy u mran like ummmm
Dmitri yabo max them 3 for pressure

[Sidney Huffman]

You call asking questions and expecting clear answers a "fishing expedition"? Are you retarded? l0l

"l0l"

and you're asking if i'm retarded?

and yes, randoming someone then expecting them to defend themeselves d1 just so you can get a read on their reaction is the very definition of fishing expedition.

i will not reveal my role, i will not give reads on players that i havent placed yet and i will not speculate on a randomized role list.

[Ace Chapman]

I've already stated that I advocate pressuring Laura, but I'm not going to do so until I have confirmation that this is what the other town-members deem useful. If I go voting Laura, I might accidentally shift the discussion off of the current topic (Sidney v Elisha), and consequently possibly make us miss some important detail that could be useful in proving/disproving someone as scum. So, although I most definitely don't care much for Sidney, I do care what happens to the Town and I want what's best for us as a whole.

And yes, Pete, Demitri is also a great pressure target. I can't believe he keeps slipping my mind >_> Yabo and Max are also good.

[Tommy Calhoun]

so tommy u mran like ummmm
Dmitri yabo max them 3 for pressure

If you want a specific list, I mean:
Max Jets
The Jewssian
Ricky Spanish
Martin Sugar

In that order. Besides Sidney being confirmed retarded/scum, that's my high priority list. I bet that from those 4, at least 3 will flip scum once we get them.

[Pete Pendelman]

"l0l"


i will not reveal my role, i will not give reads on players that i havent placed yet and i will not speculate on a randomized role list.

so let me get this right

1:never reveal role even on lynch 2/1

2: give no reads on people"what u mean by havent placed yey

3: never give random role list

[Elisha Wilkner]

"l0l"

and you're asking if i'm retarded?

and yes, randoming someone then expecting them to defend themeselves d1 just so you can get a read on their reaction is the very definition of fishing expedition.

i will not reveal my role, i will not give reads on players that i havent placed yet and i will not speculate on a randomized role list.

Nobody has ever asked you to reveal your role. We haven't specifically asked you for reads (although that was my initial question when pressuring you). I haven't asked for a role list and I even expressed my dislike about speculating about a role list.

Rashid had some questions and while I'm not sure if you answered them (I guess no), the questions were far more useful than what we were pressuring Pepper for. You still don't get it I guess. Not that I care, I don't give a flying fuck if you get lynched or not as you would only hinder the course of the game by thinking I'm scum if we let you alive today, although I don't really want anyone lynched today.

[Tommy Calhoun]

although I don't really want anyone lynched today.

Care to elaborate?

[Sidney Huffman]

so let me get this right

1:never reveal role even on lynch 2/1

2: give no reads on people"what u mean by havent placed yey

3: never give random role list

if you're too stupid to realize the focusing on me was a distraction then i will not jump thru hoops to prove my innocence. you all have your minds made up anyway, im not gonna waste my time trying to convince a bunch of remedial school drop outs of the obvious.

and can tommy scream scum any louder? completely ignoring anyone that proposes a counter theory as scum then trying to force the lynch train again day1 when ive said i will prove my role tomorrow. is someone getting worried they might have chosen the wrong target as a scapegoat?

[Elisha Wilkner]

Care to elaborate?

I don't believe we are going to lynch a scum today but rather get a townplayer lynched. I'm not gonna stop a train but I don't feel the need to lynch today.

[Sidney Huffman]

Nobody has ever asked you to reveal your role. We haven't specifically asked you for reads (although that was my initial question when pressuring you). I haven't asked for a role list and I even expressed my dislike about speculating about a role list.

Rashid had some questions and while I'm not sure if you answered them (I guess no), the questions were far more useful than what we were pressuring Pepper for. You still don't get it I guess. Not that I care, I don't give a flying fuck if you get lynched or not as you would only hinder the course of the game by thinking I'm scum if we let you alive today, although I don't really want anyone lynched today.

just because the questions turned out being more useful doesnt mean the reasoning behind them was sound. at the time they were asked, the commonly accepted reasoning for pressuring me was "well pepper is afk so lets focus on someone else." considering i was afk at the time as well, why was i focused? because i said fellow thrill seekers instead of "hello town"? or because i voted? if the latter is the reason then i suggest you pressure some other ppl that voted pepper.

[Sidney Huffman]

just because the questions turned out being more useful doesnt mean the reasoning behind them was sound. at the time they were asked, the commonly accepted reasoning for pressuring me was "well pepper is afk so lets focus on someone else." considering i was afk at the time as well, why was i focused? because i said fellow thrill seekers instead of "hello town"? or because i voted? if the latter is the reason then i suggest you pressure some other ppl that voted pepper.

that being said, if you go back and read my first response, i dont believe you to be scum either. just because your reasoning is bad doesnt make you scum.

tommy on the other hand has been hell bent on pushing my lynch and discrediting anyone that disagrees with ith

[Tommy Calhoun]

I don't believe we are going to lynch a scum today but rather get a townplayer lynched. I'm not gonna stop a train but I don't feel the need to lynch today.

Do you think it would be a loss for town if Sidney turned out to not be scum, but rather a quite retarded townie?
Yesterday (as in real life yesterday) he claimed to be a PR. I doubt that's true, since I'm quite confident that he's scum. That said, if he was telling the truth, I think that no matter what his role card says, he's anti-town in nature. Before muting him, I couldn't find a single post of him where he didn't look scummy as shit, and the ones you've been quoting since I muted him just reaffirm that.

At this point, my only worry is that he turns out to be Jester/Ghost, as I suggested on an early post.

[Elisha Wilkner]

Do you think it would be a loss for town if Sidney turned out to not be scum, but rather a quite retarded townie?
Yesterday (as in real life yesterday) he claimed to be a PR. I doubt that's true, since I'm quite confident that he's scum. That said, if he was telling the truth, I think that no matter what his role card says, he's anti-town in nature. Before muting him, I couldn't find a single post of him where he didn't look scummy as shit, and the ones you've been quoting since I muted him just reaffirm that.

At this point, my only worry is that he turns out to be Jester/Ghost, as I suggested on an early post.

I don't believe muting anyone is a good way of handling things.

Also I notice a slight increase in the quality of his posts.

I wouldn't mind leaving Sidney alive if he stops being dumb.

[Elisha Wilkner]

just because the questions turned out being more useful doesnt mean the reasoning behind them was sound. at the time they were asked, the commonly accepted reasoning for pressuring me was "well pepper is afk so lets focus on someone else." considering i was afk at the time as well, why was i focused? because i said fellow thrill seekers instead of "hello town"? or because i voted? if the latter is the reason then i suggest you pressure some other ppl that voted pepper.

You were a better target because you posted even less with suspicious content. That was enough for me to pressure and question your motives behind your posts.

I did wonder about why people were so suspicious of Pepper but I didn't care.

[Tommy Calhoun]

I don't believe muting anyone is a good way of handling things.

It's like a spam filter; it lets you focus on the actual content.

[Elisha Wilkner]

It's like a spam filter; it lets you focus on the actual content.

I know what you are saying, but I would rather skip the posts instead of really muting someone.

[Tommy Calhoun]

Town
Dr Jordan Edilstein
Lestat de Lioncourt
Rashid
Sholanda Dykes
Charles Bronson
Tommy Calhoun
Uncle Kappy
Pete Pendelman
Elisha Wilkner
Ace Chapman

Anti-Town

Martin Sugar
Demitri Krotchlikmioff
Max Jets
Tom Yabo
Ricky Spanish
Sidney Huffman

Don't know
Laura Vanderbooben
Roland Chang
Professor Baxter
Sgt. Pepper

Lists in no particular order.

[Ace Chapman]

All right, well, since discussion has pretty much stopped, I suggest getting it going again.

-vote Demitri Krotchlikmioff

(Also consider this a vote on Laura, as I would like some more from here in terms of player analyzation/overall contribution to the thread)

[Pete Pendelman]

Town
Dr Jordan Edilstein
Lestat de Lioncourt
Rashid
Sholanda Dykes
Charles Bronson
Tommy Calhoun
Uncle Kappy
Pete Pendelman
Elisha Wilkner
Ace Chapman

Anti-Town

Martin Sugar
Demitri Krotchlikmioff
Max Jets
Tom Yabo
Ricky Spanish
Sidney Huffman

Don't know
Laura Vanderbooben
Roland Chang
Professor Baxter
Sgt. Pepper

Lists in no particular order.

I agree with this list

[Sidney Huffman]

elisha, if you are town, certainly you see how muting someone, and not for trolling but for defending themselves, can hurt town? day chat is towns greatest weapon and to not see what someone posts whatsoever is criminally negligent if you are town. yes my defense was shit. becasuse i dont believe i should be forced to defend myself day1 simply based on how i write. english is not my first language, i sometimes say things weird. i didnt defend myself because if i got lynched day1, it would require a town so shitty that i wouldnt want to play with them anyway.

my whole defense has not been fosing my foser, i stated that even if the reasoning is dubious it could be made with positive intentions. i am asking for pressure against the ones in the middle of the pressure train, the ones that sheeped the pressure votes and still havent unvoted.

[Elisha Wilkner]

elisha, if you are town, certainly you see how muting someone, and not for trolling but for defending themselves, can hurt town? day chat is towns greatest weapon and to not see what someone posts whatsoever is criminally negligent if you are town. yes my defense was shit. becasuse i dont believe i should be forced to defend myself day1 simply based on how i write. english is not my first language, i sometimes say things weird. i didnt defend myself because if i got lynched day1, it would require a town so shitty that i wouldnt want to play with them anyway.

my whole defense has not been fosing my foser, i stated that even if the reasoning is dubious it could be made with positive intentions. i am asking for pressure against the ones in the middle of the pressure train, the ones that sheeped the pressure votes and still havent unvoted.

And I told you that I simply didn't unvote because I see no reason as it doesn't matter if I wait till I change my vote or until I don't want to vote anyone at the end of the day, yet you seem that I'm highly suspicious and imply that I want to lynch D1.

[Sidney Huffman]

And I told you that I simply didn't unvote because I see no reason as it doesn't matter if I wait till I change my vote or until I don't want to vote anyone at the end of the day, yet you seem that I'm highly suspicious and imply that I want to lynch D1.

i was referring to max jets, uncle kappy, and tommy.

[Ace Chapman]

I agree with this list

Because you're listed as Town by someone other than yourself? :P Joking aside, I do as well. All players listed under Town have, even if some had been under suspicion before, proven to be contributive and in some way helpful to the Town, whereas the Anti-Towns have been... Well, anti-town. I think some are scummier than others, but overall I agree(I might move 1 or 2 out of anti-town, but that's probably just me being indecisive)

And finally! Sidney's posting something intelligent and moderately helpful. (Not much, but moderately.) You're actually defending yourself now :P

[Sidney Huffman]

Because you're listed as Town by someone other than yourself? :P Joking aside, I do as well. All players listed under Town have, even if some had been under suspicion before, proven to be contributive and in some way helpful to the Town, whereas the Anti-Towns have been... Well, anti-town. I think some are scummier than others, but overall I agree(I might move 1 or 2 out of anti-town, but that's probably just me being indecisive)

And finally! Sidney's posting something intelligent and moderately helpful. (Not much, but moderately.) You're actually defending yourself now :P

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member...73-Uncle-Kappy
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10479-Max-Jets

and how have any of those posts been contributive and helpful? they are just sheep votes without even giving a reason, in some cases even saying "choo choo" as they voted me

[Ace Chapman]

Firstly: the post I agreed with had Max as anti-town. Secondly: I could have sworn Kappy had contributed to the roles list discussion... I might be mixing him with Tom, though... I will accept fault for that and say that I messed up. (Although I blame the Roger avatars xP)

[Sidney Huffman]

Firstly: the post I agreed with had Max as anti-town. Secondly: I could have sworn Kappy had contributed to the roles list discussion... I might be mixing him with Tom, though... I will accept fault for that and say that I messed up. (Although I blame the Roger avatars xP)

contributing to the roles list discussion =/= pro-town. especially considering no one is going to be put on trial for role speculation, and it gives scum a chance to suggest roles that werent included to throw off town.
the same can be said for pressure voting: as long as your scum pal isnt the pressure target, there isnt much to lose by sheeping a pressure vote day1

[Tommy Calhoun]

(Although I blame the Roger avatars xP)

Seriously. What's with the whole annoying avatars thing?
The only one of those players who I can tell from the avatar is Sholanda.

[Ace Chapman]

Also I just want to say that Sidney is l-4, and I would like to request unvoting and moving on to another target before we run out of time (5 hours 20 minutes left in day)

[Tommy Calhoun]

Also I just want to say that Sidney is l-4, and I would like to request unvoting and moving on to another target before we run out of time (5 hours 20 minutes left in day)

I suggested that like 10 hours ago. Since noone seemed to help, I doubt they will do now, so I'll keep my vote on Sidney, expecting that if we can't manage to get more useful information today, we can at least lynch one scum and make up for it.

The night is long and those who refused to contribute won't get away with it.

[Charles Bronson]

I'm not sure why I'm surprised the airport has wifi, but I'm saddened that not much seems to have happened.

[Ace Chapman]

Yeah... We bunny trailed hard with the Sidney discussion that went nowhere. What do you think of changing targets? Should we do it, or should we stay on Sidney and possibly lynch as Thomas is suggesting? If no, who should we pressure?

[Tommy Calhoun]

If no, who should we pressure?

From my scum list, there's Ricky, who is online at the moment and hasn't contributed at all.

[Charles Bronson]

Frankly I believe in lynching. I'd like to see one take place. And Sidney doesn't feel scum sheeped. The ratio is against us this game compared to others and there are quite a few people opposed to the lynch.. Seems odd, no? Also, nearly everyone I believe to be town has at some point felt Sidney was scum. If you notice I only look at first posts to decide, as our first read is often our most accurate, and the players least coordinated. Before they can find a foothold of sorts. I find Sidney to now be speaking like I spoke earlier- where was this earlier in the game?

I would suggest the lynch.

[Ricky Spanish]

I will start this ball rolling, as my time on wifi is going to come to an end soon. Everyone should list all the players in game and color align them to match their reads on them. Detail is not necessary, but will be enjoyed.

- Town -
Charles Bronson
Ace Chapman
Elisha Wilkner
Dr Jordan Edilstein
Lestat de Lioncourt
Tommy Calhoun
Uncle Kappy
Max Jets

- likely town -
Roland Chang
Sholanda Dykes
Laura Vanderbooben

- only likely town based on scum being full, but pretty sketchy -
Rashid
Tom Yabo


- Scum -
Ricky Spanish
Professor Baxter
Martin Sugar
Sidney Huffman
Pete Pendelman
Sgt. Pepper
Demitri Krotchlikmioff

Can I ask you to justify some of these? Specifically Sgt. Pepper, Martin Sugar, me, Max Jets, Uncle Kappy, and Tommy Calhoun. Thanks.

[Ricky Spanish]

I find Sidney to now be speaking like I spoke earlier- where was this earlier in the game?

Could you rephrase this? I don't understand the meaning.

[Laura Vanderbooben]

I'm in the middle of analysis and I have question for Ace.

At #342 Roland Chang appears, gives list of possible suspects and votes Rashid. This guy had only one "tl'dr" post before, he just came from nowhere to accuse people. In your posts (#346, #355) you don't seem to mind that some random guy accuses people, you just treat his "analysis" with all seriousness. Care to tell why?

[Tommy Calhoun]

Can I ask you to justify some of these? Specifically Sgt. Pepper, Martin Sugar, me, Max Jets, Uncle Kappy, and Tommy Calhoun. Thanks.

So Ricky suddenly feels like posting (and changing the subject) when we're talking about lynching Sidney.

What are your thoughst on the players?

So far, you've questioned some posts and discussed some meta, but haven't stated your opinion on players a single time, or participated in the votes. It feels like you're trying to deviate the course of the conversation towards rather unimportant matters.

[Tommy Calhoun]

Also, to Ricky and Laura. Since you are here, I want you to make clear what you feel about lynching Sidney: Will you vote him? Why?