Satisfaction Poll

[Nick]

tl;dr I'm not satisfied because I'm not moderator.

[Nazzhoul]

could also request screenshots of the specific lines in question of the action, and if the reporting person is reputable go straight to judgment (if reported player complains then a replay view would be needed if he thinks moderators are at fault)

this would only be usable for people who have a numerous supply of credible reports behind them.

Thing is, how would you define "reputable"? There are many, many instances of respected members of the community pulling a heel face turn and wrecking things. Claw, Kevinpowers are the ones that immediately come to mind. Plus that thing that happened with Landstander. If we have a respected member of the community having the power to ban people on his own and that person turns bad, he could cause a whole lot of damage before too many people noticed. That looks bad on the whole community.
Hell, even if they don't turn bad, it can still look bad on the community. If someone reports a game where they lose, then it immediately looks like they're just mad and raging. People start crying MOD ABUSE and everything goes to hell.

No. We need a full report system. We just need one that isn't such a pain for everyone involved.

Or people could just stop cheating. That would be even better...

[powerofdeath]

Voted 5! I wouldn't want to be a keeper, thanks for all volunteers! Your hard works is being thanked by me

[CmG]

Oh boy. Please don't put Claw and Kevinpowers on the same level. Claw did one error in one FM. He was before that a pillar of the sc2mafia community. Dont you ever dare to compare him with Kevinpowers again.

Thank you!

[Damus_Graves]

I had two idols when I first joined FMs mate. Claw and Yayap.
I really don't see why people hate Claw so much. He was a genius

[CmG]

No he is not a genius. But he is alright.

[Auckmid]

I had two idols when I first joined FMs mate. Claw

Are you serious?


1) Mod power abuse

2) He gamethrew FMXII by revealing everyone else on his team

3) While he played well when he was Mafia in FMs, he borderline griefed as Town

[Mugy]

I can understand why some people believe we are slackers and don't actually" want to do it for the community".
But I assure you, you don't know what it's like until you become a keeper.
I came in with the same enthusiasm as I was doing something for the community, and probably like every single newcomer, I thought I could continue doining 20 reports a day.
When I started to burn out after two weeks, I thought to myself" I can do one a day for the rest of my time here for sure" and how wrong I was.

[ypmagic]

I can understand why some people believe we are slackers and don't actually" want to do it for the community".
But I assure you, you don't know what it's like until you become a keeper.
I came in with the same enthusiasm as I was doing something for the community, and probably like every single newcomer, I thought I could continue doining 20 reports a day.
When I started to burn out after two weeks, I thought to myself" I can do one a day for the rest of my time here for sure" and how wrong I was.

I understand, but I'm a student that has like 8 hours of nothing to do after like 3 hours of studying cause all the other Korean kids are in school. Even when I wanna play a game, they're all in school. I have like a bunch of time left over. People like me on vacation have absolutely nothing to do and surely would love to occupy themselves with things that could help other people (not necessarily true cause its only me)

[AppleyNO]

I just told myself I was going to do 8 reports today. Lets see how many I actually do : D

On another note, the next time we have a keeper tryouts I am definitely going to recommend we do it differently.

EDIT: I did 5. Be happy.

[ypmagic]

I just told myself I was going to do 8 reports today. Lets see how many I actually do : D

On another note, the next time we have a keeper tryouts I am definitely going to recommend we do it differently.

+1

[oops_ur_dead]

I had two idols when I first joined FMs mate. Claw and Yayap.
I really don't see why people hate Claw so much. He was a genius

I hated him because he was a self-absorbed fuck who over-dramatized everything.

[ypmagic]

I hated him because he was a self-absorbed fuck who over-dramatized everything.

This forum seems to hate everybody.

[oops_ur_dead]

This forum seems to hate everybody.

naw I only hate like 4 people.

[Elixir]

I have no strong feeling one way or the other.

[ypmagic]

I have no strong feeling one way or the other.

Course you don't. You have a gradient name with illumination.

[Slaol]

Not the first time people have questioned my influence on staff decisions, lets say some things.

Staff IS way too cliquey, even now. Slaol especially has an alarming tendency to "hand-favoritism-pick" people. He practically coerced Gerik and ckMistro to participate in the keeper tryouts in the first place (They are his friends from real life), and let's just say I'm not surprised they were made into keepers, even though I believe I heard Mistro only did one report in the tryouts? That's cronyism at its finest (or worst, depending on how you look at it).

- The people I had a voice on hiring/promoting
Deantwo
Capitalier
Gerik
ckMistro
Damus
Cryptonic
Fred

You might say I gave Capitalier staff again, as I sought him out to fill his old slot, but he had earned it once ago long before I was even on site.

On the topic of Gerik and ckMistro.... lol. I did push for both of them to sign up and complete the trials, and I regularly pushed them to do more. I wanted them to make the mark, but through the test. The fact that both only did like 1-2 reports and still made it shocked even me.
I got a text from Gerik when he was promoted which was responded to with, something like, 'lolwut'.
My first response in staff chat after ck was promoted was 'Hunter.... made it?', this was even his Meet the Staff description for a bit.
Literally the extent of my suggesting they got staff was 'I think Gerik will do the job well if hired.' (please notice the lack of comment on Mistro) and until this point he has. He completed the reports quicker than 42, who was seemingly the #1 consensus pick. ckMistro has also managed to be quick, and have minimal error at all.
I couldn't even edit the spreadsheet for the trials, and never posted my thoughts on the other applicants, so I'm sure that aided in it appearing I was focused on my friends. However, I was watching everyone and was legitimately shocked that either was hired. But it wasn't my decision, it was Creeds, and it has managed to work out thus far.

My other whim, hand-picking, has basically consisted of
'Why is Cryptonic (mod) not green if he is a mod?' and
'Damus (mod) should be MafDisc mod.'
You might also say 'Fred (mod) really is more of a blue.' would make it.

Literally the only person I ever just selected to give staff to was Deantwo. He was the wiki mod, and made an incredible amount of sense for a mod in the wave of Mods that hit the site a few months ago. Deantwo is also one of the staff members that I have managed to have the least personal interaction with, and was at 0 before his hire.

I am involved in decision making, but I am not just hand-favoritism-picking anyone for any reasons outside of thinking they will do the job well.

[ypmagic]

Preach!

[AppleyNO]

1. A group of staff members were involved in an incidence of Skype cheating and out of game communication near the end of FM18. I think that the staff members should aim to set an example for other forum members. It's disheartening to see people disrespecting the game, the other participants, and the hosts enough to engage in this kind of behavior. Any number of staff members who were present could have stopped the situation from occurring. I only took punitive action against Damus_Graves and ika by mod killing them, but I am personally disappointed in Slaol, Glip, Fred, AppleyNO and Gerik for witnessing the event and not making more of an effort to stop the out of game Skype communication or reporting it to me. I am not convinced that any of the witnesses of the out of game communication even realize that they have done something wrong by not reporting the event. I hope in the future we can count on forum staff members to help enforce the no out of game communication rules. Maybe this could be added to forum staff duties: discourage Skype communication about FM outside of FM and report it to the hosts when it occurs.

I completely agree. The next FM I will make sure to read every post to make sure no one is alive while I'm not playing instead of alt+tabbing from the website to the skype chat and not really paying attention to it.

In all actuality any talking about any FM stuff in any channel is already disallowed, and even with some members not even playing or caring what is going on; the topic of the ongoing Forum Mafia should not have even been brought up.

I, at the very least, will make sure to pay attention to this stuff now.

[Slaol]

I, at the very least, will make sure to pay attention to this stuff now.

Redacting
Redacting.
Redacting..
Redacting...
And {placeholder}d

[ypmagic]

On the topic of Gerik and ckMistro.... lol. I did push for both of them to sign up and complete the trials, and I regularly pushed them to do more. I wanted them to make the mark, but through the test. The fact that both only did like 1-2 reports and still made it shocked even me.
I got a text from Gerik when he was promoted which was responded to with, something like, 'lolwut'.
My first response in staff chat after ck was promoted was 'Hunter.... made it?', this was even his Meet the Staff description for a bit.
Literally the extent of my suggesting they got staff was 'I think Gerik will do the job well if hired.' (please notice the lack of comment on Mistro) and until this point he has. He completed the reports quicker than 42, who was seemingly the #1 consensus pick. ckMistro has also managed to be quick, and have minimal error at all.
I couldn't even edit the spreadsheet for the trials, and never posted my thoughts on the other applicants, so I'm sure that aided in it appearing I was focused on my friends. However, I was watching everyone and was legitimately shocked that either was hired. But it wasn't my decision, it was Creeds, and it has managed to work out thus far.

And I'm just gonna put it out that all reviews should be done by PM.... anybody could copy the review above theirs and change it a bit and not do anything....

[Slaol]

And I'm just gonna put it out that all reviews should be done by PM.... anybody could copy the review above theirs and change it a bit and not do anything....

On an individual level this might catch the better talents, but would lose the fact that reports are generally a group effort. Discussing punishments, learning from others, and catching what others miss.

[AppleyNO]

This is your only warning, any flame posts will be deleted. Mods are no exception.

[Nick]

This is your only warning, any flame posts will be deleted. Mods are no exception.

Not sure about the Clem part. But his "being a mod sucks" is legit reply.

[AppleyNO]

Not sure about the Clem part. But his "being a mod sucks" is legit reply.

His post about Clem was flame-y at best. Thats why it was deleted.

Its a battle in staff chat. And thats all I'm going to say about that.

[Nick]

This poll is stupid anyway. Creates more problems than finding problems to troubleshoot.

[Damus_Graves]

About the whole mods are ezmode job:

There is a reason I don't play SC2mafia much anymore. Once I got staff and people began seeing me as an ingame mod I was targeted more and more. Being a benefactor only make things worse. Verbal abuse and the ruination of games immediately began becoming a thing in every game i joined. No matter how I tried to hide my presence it got out and the game was thus destroyed by trolls and idiots trying to get a rise out of me or just wanting to take things out on me for X reason. It was because of this that I changed my username to something more unknown but didn't completely eliminate me from being recognizable by other staff members. I joined a game, in which land was in as well as other known trolls and rule breakers, and Landstander immediately outed me as staff and the trolling, targeting, and game ruining begun once again. As things began Landstander left the game, showing his intent on ruining the chance at some relaxation I would have gotten and placing me once again under the crosshairs of those mentioned above. Being a mod is a tough job and the verbal abuse you gain from being one is not worth the benefit of the position. It is the singular notice of making sure that others games are not ruined by rule breakers that keeps me staying in a staff position. {Specifically talking about my time as a keeper)

[AppleyNO]

This poll is stupid anyway. Creates more problems than finding problems to troubleshoot.

I disagree. This entire thread is full of great and no-so great ideas to help make the staff better. I'm sure we will be talking about them further in the next few days.

Continue posting problems you have with the staff. Its systems, forum rules, certain moderators(although please be nice!), etc. We are listening and reacting to what you are saying.

[AppleyNO]

About the whole mods are ezmode job:

There is a reason I don't play SC2mafia much anymore. Once I got staff and people began seeing me as an ingame mod I was targeted more and more. Being a benefactor only make things worse. Verbal abuse and the ruination of games immediately began becoming a thing in every game i joined. No matter how I tried to hide my presence it got out and the game was thus destroyed by trolls and idiots trying to get a rise out of me or just wanting to take things out on me for X reason. It was because of this that I changed my username to something more unknown but didn't completely eliminate me from being recognizable by other staff members. I joined a game, in which land was in as well as other known trolls and rule breakers, and Landstander immediately outed me as staff and the trolling, targeting, and game ruining begun once again. As things began Landstander left the game, showing his intent on ruining the chance at some relaxation I would have gotten and placing me once again under the crosshairs of those mentioned above. Being a mod is a tough job and the verbal abuse you gain from being one is not worth the benefit of the position. It is the singular notice of making sure that others games are not ruined by rule breakers that keeps me staying in a staff position. {Specifically talking about my time as a keeper)

While I have not become an in-game moderator, I can tell non-staff through first hand experience that being a keeper sucks xD. The entire reason I do it now is because I enjoy the company of the other staff members. Otherwise I would have quit. :P

[Glip]

While I have not become an in-game moderator, I can tell non-staff through first hand experience that being a keeper sucks xD. The entire reason I do it now is because I enjoy the company of the other staff members. Otherwise I would have quit. :P

Being an in-game moderator/keeper is the antithesis to the "It's all fun and games" statement. You take what should be fun and games and spend every moment of it analyzing it to see and punish whosoever is having their fun at the expense of others', without leaving much fun for yourself to be had.

And it's rather frustrating that there isn't a "Spectator" viewpoint from which to moderate the game, so that we can actually see the roles of everyone without abusing. Almost makes me glad to die night 1.

[Cryptonic]

About the whole mods are ezmode job:

There is a reason I don't play SC2mafia much anymore. Once I got staff and people began seeing me as an ingame mod I was targeted more and more. Being a benefactor only make things worse. Verbal abuse and the ruination of games immediately began becoming a thing in every game i joined. No matter how I tried to hide my presence it got out and the game was thus destroyed by trolls and idiots trying to get a rise out of me or just wanting to take things out on me for X reason. It was because of this that I changed my username to something more unknown but didn't completely eliminate me from being recognizable by other staff members. I joined a game, in which land was in as well as other known trolls and rule breakers, and Landstander immediately outed me as staff and the trolling, targeting, and game ruining begun once again. As things began Landstander left the game, showing his intent on ruining the chance at some relaxation I would have gotten and placing me once again under the crosshairs of those mentioned above. Being a mod is a tough job and the verbal abuse you gain from being one is not worth the benefit of the position. It is the singular notice of making sure that others games are not ruined by rule breakers that keeps me staying in a staff position. {Specifically talking about my time as a keeper)

This has to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. Who cares if people flame you in games, sticks and stones man... Also, how do people find you in the game? Do you name yourself something like "Damus the Grave Keeping Moderator" every single game or something. Try not choosing a name... or choosing different things that people won't be able to relate to you. ps. How can you be a sc2mafia mod and not even play? Seems counterproductive


@ the Gerik & Mistro part: I'm gonna call BS that Slaol had no affect on the choice of new keeper's. Slaol has an affect on Creed who has an affect on the choices. Just sayin'. lol

@ Glip. It's easy to play a game and enjoy yourself and catch cheaters. The only time the game isn't fun is when the cheaters ruin it, and they ruin it for everybody and not just a Moderator. You don't need to have a list of everyone's roles to know who is cheating.. >_> I don't have it.. I just look for people who tunnel vision on scum and then flip a non-investigative role. Then I watch the replay from that person's point of view and see if I can understand it the way they saw it.

[Raptorblaze]

This has to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. Who cares if people flame you in games, sticks and stones man... Also, how do people find you in the game? Do you name yourself something like "Damus the Grave Keeping Moderator" every single game or something. Try not choosing a name... or choosing different things that people won't be able to relate to you. ps. How can you be a sc2mafia mod and not even play? Seems counterproductive


@ the Gerik & Mistro part: I'm gonna call BS that Slaol had no affect on the choice of new keeper's. Slaol has an affect on Creed who has an affect on the choices. Just sayin'. lol

@ Glip. It's easy to play a game and enjoy yourself and catch cheaters. The only time the game isn't fun is when the cheaters ruin it, and they ruin it for everybody and not just a Moderator. You don't need to have a list of everyone's roles to know who is cheating.. >_> I don't have it.. I just look for people who tunnel vision on scum and then flip a non-investigative role. Then I watch the replay from that person's point of view and see if I can understand it the way they saw it.

Like I've tried to tell the two or three people trying to talk me into making them moderators without them having to do keeper duties, being a moderator in game is NOT about exercising your powers. It gives you some tools to better investigate people's behavior during the course of a game (and especially once you're dead) such as -real if you see people join the game as a party to identify who they are and watch their behavior or -msg to prod people who appear to be AFK throwing but for the most part they are merely our eyes and ears in game and dedicated reporters. Many of the abilities we're capable of exercising in game only damage the game more once it becomes obvious someone is committing and offense (My primary powers used are -points to restore bank files and -kick for lag griefers and the command to let me walk around to make people laugh before they lynch me) only hurt the gameplay more and are discouraged. It's not that mods don't WANT to play the game, it's that the way DR coded some of the commands makes it impossible for them to remain incognito and changes the game play to target them routinely. The biggest solution to this is to make commands not reveal which ingame name used the commands, just the moderator's name.

[Cryptonic]

Like I've tried to tell the two or three people trying to talk me into making them moderators without them having to do keeper duties, being a moderator in game is NOT about exercising your powers. It gives you some tools to better investigate people's behavior during the course of a game (and especially once you're dead) such as -real if you see people join the game as a party to identify who they are and watch their behavior or -msg to prod people who appear to be AFK throwing but for the most part they are merely our eyes and ears in game and dedicated reporters. Many of the abilities we're capable of exercising in game only damage the game more once it becomes obvious someone is committing and offense (My primary powers used are -points to restore bank files and -kick for lag griefers and the command to let me walk around to make people laugh before they lynch me) only hurt the gameplay more and are discouraged. It's not that mods don't WANT to play the game, it's that the way DR coded some of the commands makes it impossible for them to remain incognito and changes the game play to target them routinely. The biggest solution to this is to make commands not reveal which ingame name used the commands, just the moderator's name.

You're right, it shouldn't reveal who you are when you use the command. But Mod presence in games is supposed to deter crimes, not to sit back in the shadows waiting for someone to do something wrong.

Also, if you're getting targeted because you reveal yourself as a mod in the game, then you're doing it wrong lol.

[ypmagic]

Just asking, are Keepers listed as Moderators ingame?

[Glip]

Just asking, are Keepers listed as Moderators ingame?

Only a few of us are.

You're right, it shouldn't reveal who you are when you use the command. But Mod presence in games is supposed to deter crimes, not to sit back in the shadows waiting for someone to do something wrong.

Also, if you're getting targeted because you reveal yourself as a mod in the game, then you're doing it wrong lol.

From what I've seen, known Mod presence seems more likely to provoke crimes, rather than deter them. Some people seem to get off on trying to provoke us.

[TimeTrx]

--------Pending Wall of Text Incoming-----------------

Also the poll should have ended 9 hours ago or is my computer time off?

[Cryptonic]

--------Pending Wall of Text Incoming-----------------

Also the poll should have ended 9 hours ago or is my computer time off?

If your computer says it's almost the end of July, you should probably change it. lol

[Raptorblaze]

You're right, it shouldn't reveal who you are when you use the command. But Mod presence in games is supposed to deter crimes, not to sit back in the shadows waiting for someone to do something wrong.

Also, if you're getting targeted because you reveal yourself as a mod in the game, then you're doing it wrong lol.

I don't mind revealing there IS a mod or admin, just that it tells them which ingame name is the mod/admin.

[Cryptonic]

I don't mind revealing there IS a mod or admin, just that it tells them which ingame name is the mod/admin.

Yes, I 100% agree with you on this. Revealing there is a mod alive just puts a target on them, which is why mods should do the command before names are given out. That way, everyone knows there is a mod, but don't know who he is after names are selected.

[AppleyNO]

--------Pending Wall of Text Incoming-----------------

Also the poll should have ended 9 hours ago or is my computer time off?

It ends in july.

[Damus_Graves]

This has to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. Who cares if people flame you in games, sticks and stones man... Also, how do people find you in the game? Do you name yourself something like "Damus the Grave Keeping Moderator" every single game or something. Try not choosing a name... or choosing different things that people won't be able to relate to you. ps. How can you be a sc2mafia mod and not even play? Seems counterproductive


@ the Gerik & Mistro part: I'm gonna call BS that Slaol had no affect on the choice of new keeper's. Slaol has an affect on Creed who has an affect on the choices. Just sayin'. lol

@ Glip. It's easy to play a game and enjoy yourself and catch cheaters. The only time the game isn't fun is when the cheaters ruin it, and they ruin it for everybody and not just a Moderator. You don't need to have a list of everyone's roles to know who is cheating.. >_> I don't have it.. I just look for people who tunnel vision on scum and then flip a non-investigative role. Then I watch the replay from that person's point of view and see if I can understand it the way they saw it.

I didn't name myself anything close to this. I choose names such as Kazack, or Joker, or I don't choose names at all. Did it really look like I was asking/seeking to be targeted by trolls and idiots?

[Cryptonic]

I didn't name myself anything close to this. I choose names such as Kazack, or Joker, or I don't choose names at all. Did it really look like I was asking/seeking to be targeted by trolls and idiots?

lol then how do they find you in games and target you after names are given out?

[Damus_Graves]

lol then how do they find you in games and target you after names are given out?

I've moderated in the game and stuff when cheaters cheat n stuff. It just got out because someone made the dots connect.
Sry for the whine out I gave you.

[Cryptonic]

I've moderated in the game and stuff when cheaters cheat n stuff. It just got out because someone made the dots connect.
Sry for the whine out I gave you.

Lol, it's nothing to be sorry for, I was just confused and was trying to offer options so you can continue playing without being targeted.

[Crimson]

Lol, 1. RB you dun goof'd!

[Raptorblaze]

Lol, 1. RB you dun goof'd!

Don't worry I still <3 you even if you don't feel the same.

[ypmagic]

I was wondering if guests can still post in the Reports section?

[TimeTrx]

It ends in july.

My bad, thanks.

Ok, so here is my wall of text.

I voted for 2. The reason is a simple series of lack of written laws, failures of the system and the lack of checks balances for the staff.
First of all I like to say the report system is fine, a lot of people say it is bad but in fact I have no issues with it except for the occasional backlog but that is not usually in staff's control. The problem overall is:

Lack of clearly defined rules
Every forum a have been to has a centralized structure to it. Basically their are general rules that are clearly stated (e.g. causing racial hatred can give you an infraction no matter what section of the forum you post it in) and apply to the entire site regardless; basically it is a constitution that guarantees: natural inalienable rights. This one does not, which means every section (the R&D group, General/reports group, and site disc. group) make their own rules and give you no guaranteed rights at all (e.g. your topics and posts can be deleted without notice if someone on staff doesn't like them regardless of morality).

Suggested Fix:
Implement a centralized system (e.g constitutional republic) with clearly defined ranks, rules, and publicly available for all to see and include unalienable natural rights for regular members.

Staff (Members) not held fully responsible for actions

The biggest problem with this site is when people get into is staff is the abuse they cause; kevinpowers anyone? But besides that, as a regular member I don't see much of the corruption, apart from the amount of deleted threads and posts and the rare unfair infraction. There needs to be a balance a.k.a. no looking the other way in answer hall. Don't get me wrong the answer hall does serve a purpose but it is not used to fullest.

Suggested Fix:

1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.

OR

2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).

No community involvement

No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.

Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.

Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation

Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.

Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.

Make it so keepers have to work as a keeper for at least a year (or a certain amount like 3 moths, etc) before you get in-game mod powers

Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Also allows you guys to weed out problems and/or inactivity before giving full powers in-game.

Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets(Not staff chat, just general chat)

Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.


Anyway thanks for reading, if you want me to go into detail or explain more just ask. Feedback would be great too!

EDIT: Edited to explain better from people's feedback: Glip and Mugy7. (as of last edit)

[Mugy]

My bad, thanks.

Ok, so here is my wall of text.

I voted for 2. The reason is a simple series of lack of written laws, failures of the system and the lack of checks balances for the staff.
First of all I like to say the report system is fine, a lot of people say it is bad but in fact I have no issues with it except for the occasional backlog but that is not usually in staff's control. The problem overall is:

Lack of clearly defined rules
Every forum a have been to has a centralized structure to it. Basically their are general rules that are clearly stated (e.g. causing racial hatred can give you an infraction no matter what section of the forum you post it in) and apply to the entire site regardless; basically it is a constitution that guarantees: natural inalienable rights. This one does not, which means every section (the R&D group, General/reports group, and site disc. group) make their own rules and give you no guaranteed rights at all (e.g. your topics and posts can be deleted without notice if someone on staff doesn't like them regardless of morality).

Suggested Fix:
Implement a centralized system (e.g constitutional republic) with clearly defined ranks, rules, and publicly available for all to see and include unalienable natural rights for regular members.
I agree, this is being worked on right now.
Staff (Members) not held fully responsible for actions

The biggest problem with this site is when people get into is staff is the abuse they cause; kevinpowers anyone? But besides that, as a regular member I don't see much of the corruption, apart from the amount of deleted threads and posts and the rare unfair infraction. There needs to be a balance a.k.a. no looking the other way in answer hall. Don't get me wrong the answer hall does serve a purpose but it is not used to fullest.

Suggested Fix:

1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.
The situation is a lot more complicated than that, while the public does not see what happens after a complaint is laid, actions are taken.
OR

2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).
I don't think anyone that is appropriate for this position will want this position.
There hasn't been any in-game moderation abuse incidents for a very long time.

Edit: I would also like to add that Private messaging to administrators isn't disabled... You seem to think it is.

No community involvement

No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.

Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.
I think you've missed the last six months. I don't think you've paid notice to Slaol's title either :P

Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation

Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.

Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.
Keeper is kinda like a staff initiation step, where we see if you're trustworthy and deserve higher ranks. If someone already fulfills all we want as a forum moderator, they don't need to be keeper(such as the case with Slaol and Deantwo)
Have to work as a keeper for at least a year before you get in-game mod powers
Unrealistic, though I don't blame you for wanting this.

Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Not to mention the clans wrecking your image by word of mouth.

Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets
This is a no no, we can't make staff chat public.
There is a reason why staff chat only has staff in it. We discuss things such as game exploits and whatnot, anything that is not confidential(such as discussions about ratios of gays to straights) won't be interesting for anyone else to read.
Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.


Anyway thanks for reading, if you want me to go into detail or explain more just ask. Feedback would be great too!

A few responses, I've said what I'm sure I'm allowed to say. Ask smods for more info.

[Glip]

No community involvement

No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.

Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.

I have played over a hundred games of mafia in the past two weeks. We do play games. There's just so many games going on that the odds that you end up in the same one as us are rather small.

Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation

Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.

Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.

I can name four off the top of my head: Slaol, Borkbot, Deantwo, and Eagleman. None of these four moderators started as a keeper. Cryptonic didn't become mod through being a keeper either, although he did once help with a backlog.

Have to work as a keeper for at least a year before you get in-game mod powers

Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Not to mention the clans wrecking your image by word of mouth.

At least a year? Where did you hear this? I have in-game mod powers and I haven't even been keeper for half a year... and I've had mod powers for a couple months or so.

Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets

Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.

The Staff skype chatroom is just a chatroom. Most of the conversation that goes on in there is idle chit-chat, or irrelevant to the forums completely. And as for posting more, have you noticed that 17 (not including FMGM) out of the top 20 posters on the site are either staff or ex-staff?