Satisfaction Poll

[TimeTrx]

1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.
The situation is a lot more complicated than that, while the public does not see what happens after a complaint is laid, actions are taken.
OR

2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).
I don't think anyone that is appropriate for this position will want this position.
There hasn't been any in-game moderation abuse incidents for a very long time.

This is only forum based infractions, like I said the in-game should not be changed as it is as good as it can get. Forum disputes only, the 1 decision being more open than the second, the second is kind of like a union is to a company.

Keeper is kinda like a staff initiation step, where we see if you're trustworthy and deserve higher ranks. If someone already fulfills all we want as a forum moderator, they don't need to be keeper(such as the case with Slaol and Deantwo)

It is unfair only in the respect that no everyone has guaranteed access to Starcraft 2 and it promotes the lack of posts we have been seeing.

This is a no no, we can't make staff chat public.
There is a reason why staff chat only has staff in it. We discuss things such as game exploits and whatnot, anything that is not confidential(such as discussions about ratios of gays to straights) won't be interesting for anyone else to read.

Not what I mean. Again it is an access thing not everyone has access to the skype general discussion, heck not everyone has skype. Get rid of the general members skype discussion, promote forum posting and the chatbox. This has nothing to do with the staff chat.

[ypmagic]

I've seen many mods playing Mafia.

[Mugy]

It is unfair only in the respect that no everyone has guaranteed access to Starcraft 2 and it promotes the lack of posts we have been seeing.

We do what we need to keep the game going. Vanity projects such as creating a new system to recruit people when we already have a fully functional one doesn't interest us. Especially when a lot of staff members(especially the ones high up) have limited spare time.

Not what I mean. Again it is an access thing not everyone has access to the skype general discussion, heck not everyone has skype. Get rid of the general members skype discussion, promote forum posting and the chatbox. This has nothing to do with the staff chat.

General members skype discussion has been dead for six months. I'm not even in it.

[TimeTrx]

I have clarified, a little from feedback.

I have played over a hundred games of mafia in the past two weeks. We do play games. There's just so many games going on that the odds that you end up in the same one as us are rather small.

NA or EU?

I can name four off the top of my head: Slaol, Borkbot, Deantwo, and Eagleman. None of these four moderators started as a keeper. Cryptonic didn't become mod through being a keeper either, although he did once help with a backlog.

Sorry I am not certain of the origin stories therefore can't I contradict you.

At least a year? Where did you hear this? I have in-game mod powers and I haven't even been keeper for half a year... and I've had mod powers for a couple months or so.

I fixed my typo. Its just a suggestion that keepers shouldn't get instant in-game powers.

The Staff skype chatroom is just a chatroom. Most of the conversation that goes on in there is idle chit-chat, or irrelevant to the forums completely. And as for posting more, have you noticed that 17 (not including FMGM) out of the top 20 posters on the site are either staff or ex-staff?

Only really forum mafias, site discussion and if you have R&D count towards your post count (not sure about if staff disc. gives you an increase in post count) so yes the staff will have more. Not to mention, most staff are still around and I can create a lot more 1 sentence posts than I can 3 paragraph posts. I believe if you counted General Discussion and counted characters not posts you would be surprised. But hey it is all statistics its not like oops has a graph for that or for total time you been active on the forums.

[TimeTrx]

We do what we need to keep the game going. Vanity projects such as creating a new system to recruit people when we already have a fully functional one doesn't interest us. Especially when a lot of staff members(especially the ones high up) have limited spare time.

I'm not fighting with you. That is your opinion and you already know mine from my post.

General members skype discussion has been dead for six months. I'm not even in it.

I'm sorry my information is a bit outdated please keep that in mind, I've been busy.


Edit: Merge these 2 posts.

[Mugy]

I fixed my typo. Its just a suggestion that keepers shouldn't get instant in-game powers.

They don't >.>

Edit: Merge these 2 posts.

You know you can edit and delete yourself right? :P

[sneils]

So I played about 150 games by now and only once met a mod "in action". He revealed to be mod when someone claimed "gamethrow!!1111", but didn't have to act because it was complete bullshit. Can't really tell if I'm satisfied. I only know that the Map Update on EU should be more regular, because of them hackers @@

[kyle1234513]

im going to agree with timetrx here, us regular folk have no idea what the staff are doing at any point in time, and all we have to go on is your word alone. and lets face it, I just don't trust any of you.

[Mugy]

im going to agree with timetrx here, us regular folk have no idea what the staff are doing at any point in time, and all we have to go on is your word alone. and lets face it, I just don't trust any of you.

I understand your position here as I once was just a nobody on the forums, commenting in discussions here and there. The only mod I frequently saw was Creed. I got lucky when I asked about any open staff positions, there was a reports backlog at the time and I managed to become the last recruit for about three months. Now I'm the only one left from that wave of recruits Lol.
If you have additional ideas to fix staff-user relations, please state so. Keep in mind that some things aren't possible for reasons you are not aware of. We try and explain it as best as possible

So I played about 150 games by now and only once met a mod "in action". He revealed to be mod when someone claimed "gamethrow!!1111", but didn't have to act because it was complete bullshit. Can't really tell if I'm satisfied. I only know that the Map Update on EU should be more regular, because of them hackers @@

Do you know who the moderator was? Just curious

[Damus_Graves]

im going to agree with timetrx here, us regular folk have no idea what the staff are doing at any point in time, and all we have to go on is your word alone. and lets face it, I just don't trust any of you.

Lol.
Timetrx is pretty known for being overdramatic you know?

[Sinclair]

I honestly think the mods are doing just fine. I know there are people who hate the mods but that's a good thing. That means they're doing their job.

[Raptorblaze]

My bad, thanks.

Ok, so here is my wall of text.

I voted for 2. The reason is a simple series of lack of written laws, failures of the system and the lack of checks balances for the staff.
First of all I like to say the report system is fine, a lot of people say it is bad but in fact I have no issues with it except for the occasional backlog but that is not usually in staff's control. The problem overall is:

Lack of clearly defined rules
Every forum a have been to has a centralized structure to it. Basically their are general rules that are clearly stated (e.g. causing racial hatred can give you an infraction no matter what section of the forum you post it in) and apply to the entire site regardless; basically it is a constitution that guarantees: natural inalienable rights. This one does not, which means every section (the R&D group, General/reports group, and site disc. group) make their own rules and give you no guaranteed rights at all (e.g. your topics and posts can be deleted without notice if someone on staff doesn't like them regardless of morality).

Suggested Fix:
Implement a centralized system (e.g constitutional republic) with clearly defined ranks, rules, and publicly available for all to see and include unalienable natural rights for regular members.

Not sure what purpose you think ranks would serve outside the currently defined ones, however we are rewriting all the rules stickies to be clear and concise (problem is as situations arise rules get revised/policies added they tend to get a bit cluttered) obviously this would make them publicly available. Once the stickies are clear I'm going to be requiring the moderation staff to cite which rule was violated when they give an infraction. As far as unalienable rights, this is not a democracy Time and stop trying to make it one. You have the right to be told what rule you broke, and the right to question infractions in answer hall. That's it. "Freedom of Speech" is not a given right here because we have to regulate things such as instructions on hacking, cheating tips, flaming, etc. There's just too many abuses to ever define that right for people.

Staff (Members) not held fully responsible for actions

The biggest problem with this site is when people get into is staff is the abuse they cause; kevinpowers anyone? But besides that, as a regular member I don't see much of the corruption, apart from the amount of deleted threads and posts and the rare unfair infraction. There needs to be a balance a.k.a. no looking the other way in answer hall. Don't get me wrong the answer hall does serve a purpose but it is not used to fullest.

Suggested Fix:

1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.

OR

2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).

-You guys don't see it but when I get credible complaints (i.e. when your complaint actually says they violated some kind of policy and is not just a wall of insulting statements about them) there are punishments that come down on the staffmember if their actions are unjustified. You will find NO business who publicly humiliates their employees for the satisfaction of angry customers even if they were in the wrong and I have no intention to start, because that is exactly what I'd be doing if I published every single punishment I gave and abuse I discovered.

-Answer Hall is hidden from all but the Super Moderators and Admins, and if one of them is the problem you're free to pm me directly if you believe they'd try to cover up your thread. I've been saying this for months and few people listen. Answer Hall is there for any issues you have with staff members that you wish administration to resolve. There is no "change" that needs to be made to it... people just need to use it.

-I infract staff with the same infractions I can give you. None of you can see infractions so you wouldn't realize it though. As an example, I give infractions whenever I reverse one

-Finally, an election would be an incredibly terrible way to add a neutral observer to staff. The only result would be a flood of smurfs voting up someone's desired candidate and any attempt to limit smurf activity would result in people claiming we were discriminating against a group of users.

No community involvement

No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.

Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.

Do you even play mafia? Moderators are ingame all the time despite how we get treated when we reveal our status. Hell I still play at least once a day despite Landstander trying to make his clan harass me for him. We have a de facto community manager atm, he just needs to do more stuff :P

Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation

Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.

Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.

See above reasons for not wanting an election. Also: Slaol, Eagleman, Bruno, and Deantwo all started as forum mods, I believe borkbot did as well though he was before my time. Keeper rank is kind of our trial by fire to make sure new people are dedicated enough to fulfill their duties, but we do select dedicated community members on occasion for forum moderator positions. They're also free to request a transfer to solely forum moderator once they've proven themselves as a keeper.

Make it so keepers have to work as a keeper for at least a year (or a certain amount like 3 moths, etc) before you get in-game mod powers

Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Also allows you guys to weed out problems and/or inactivity before giving full powers in-game.

Currently we have a 1 month absolute minimum waiting period before we consider giving someone ingame mod. The issue is no amount of waiting determines if a person is "good" or not, as 90% of the issues only appear after they're given powers. Take Skywarden as an example, he was a perfectly fine keeper until he got ingame mod. Then he apparently dropped off the face of the forums and began abusing constantly ingame. This is a case where we need people to file reports when they see abuse because we got a grand total of 0 reports about him despite how rampant it was. A one year waiting period would make no one ever have ingame mod. I mean hell I've only been here for two years myself

Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets(Not staff chat, just general chat)

Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.

Confused what you're trying to say. Staff chat is 90% just chatter and/or discussion of reports being worked on. The other 10% includes stuff like me explaining exploits we found to DR/mods, organizing games, catching people up on current events, asking people for assistance in certain matters, posting evidence we've collected of offenses. None of that would be served by having staff chat be public. The only real secret secrets are staff disciplinary actions which, once again, no business releases because it's unprofessional as hell to humiliate your employees to the public. You can hate me for that position but I'm not changing it.

The only other skype conversations I have are people inviting me to games, or me being pmed directly by community I've given my contact info to for things such as point restorations. Oh and Admin chat but that's usually just development stuff.

Anyway thanks for reading, if you want me to go into detail or explain more just ask. Feedback would be great too!

EDIT: Edited to explain better from people's feedback: Glip and Mugy7. (as of last edit)

So... I get the feeling from Time's wall of text that it's more a lack of understanding of what actually happens than actual problems. Would you guys like me to do an AMA or something about staff as a system rather than the people in it?

[CmG]

No.

[Raptorblaze]

As a note: I'm planning to do one of these polls each month, though I may change the format slightly.
Changes I'm considering:

• Making votes public for two reasons, 1. To prevent staff voting and 2. To follow up with people who vote 1 or 2 but don't post why.
• Changing it to a suggestion thread instead of "complaints" and then specifically responding to each suggestion.
• Banning staff from responding (except admins)
• Possibly shortening the timeframe from 30 days to maybe 2 weeks?

Thoughts on any of those?

[Raptorblaze]

So I played about 150 games by now and only once met a mod "in action". He revealed to be mod when someone claimed "gamethrow!!1111", but didn't have to act because it was complete bullshit. Can't really tell if I'm satisfied. I only know that the Map Update on EU should be more regular, because of them hackers @@

Not much we can really do about it the problem is the EU uploader never uploads anymore. I'm considering how difficult it might be to switch uploaders and lose the popularity etc.

Only really forum mafias, site discussion and if you have R&D count towards your post count (not sure about if staff disc. gives you an increase in post count) so yes the staff will have more. Not to mention, most staff are still around and I can create a lot more 1 sentence posts than I can 3 paragraph posts. I believe if you counted General Discussion and counted characters not posts you would be surprised. But hey it is all statistics its not like oops has a graph for that or for total time you been active on the forums.

Actually it's because we recruit active members of the community 90% of the time. Also the information density of your 3 paragraph posts leaves a lot to be desired when you repeat the same thing over and over and over. There is a predictable theme to your posts. Always.

[Cryptonic]

Yea, sounds good. imo, you should make a mod complaint section in answer hall that only admins can see lol.

[CmG]

lol why prevent staff from voting? It's not like HERPDERP we are STAFF WE ALWAYS VOTE BEST STAFF OPTIONS! Why ban staff from responding? If they feel the need to humiliate themselves with unprofesional posts it's their own problem.

[kyle1234513]

lol why prevent staff from voting? It's not like HERPDERP we are STAFF WE ALWAYS VOTE BEST STAFF OPTIONS! Why ban staff from responding? If they feel the need to humiliate themselves with unprofesional posts it's their own problem.

because in the OP the poll pertains to staff members, so you cant vote on yourself..... that's like asking a me to rate myself. charming handsom genius awesomesauce.....

[Cryptonic]

because in the OP the poll pertains to staff members, so you cant vote on yourself..... that's like asking a me to rate myself. charming handsom genius awesomesauce.....

Nah, I agree w/ CmG. We're not voting on ourselves, we're voting on our fellow staff members. Sure, some staff members are like, OMG WE ARE AWESOME WE ARE BEST TEAM EVER WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU, and those ones voted a 5. Any normal/sane person can see that the system isn't perfect, and it never will be. But, Raptor is trying as hard as he can to get it as close to perfect as possible.

[oops_ur_dead]

Lack of clearly defined rules
Every forum a have been to has a centralized structure to it. Basically their are general rules that are clearly stated (e.g. causing racial hatred can give you an infraction no matter what section of the forum you post it in) and apply to the entire site regardless; basically it is a constitution that guarantees: natural inalienable rights. This one does not, which means every section (the R&D group, General/reports group, and site disc. group) make their own rules and give you no guaranteed rights at all (e.g. your topics and posts can be deleted without notice if someone on staff doesn't like them regardless of morality).

Suggested Fix:
Implement a centralized system (e.g constitutional republic) with clearly defined ranks, rules, and publicly available for all to see and include unalienable natural rights for regular members.

Ranks are more or less clearly defined, I wasn't aware anyone had an issue with them. We're working on the rules thing. The thing is, we have to be subjective at times in cases when someone does something that's clearly unacceptable but we didn't have the foresight to explicitly ban it. As for the "natural rights" thing, that's fucking stupid. This is an internet forum, not a country. Your only rights are outlined clearly in the agreement you accepted when you registered for the forum: "The owners of SC2 Mafia reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason." As aggressive or power-hungry you think I am being by saying that, this is the case for literally every single internet forum, and we aren't going to change that.

Staff (Members) not held fully responsible for actions

The biggest problem with this site is when people get into is staff is the abuse they cause; kevinpowers anyone? But besides that, as a regular member I don't see much of the corruption, apart from the amount of deleted threads and posts and the rare unfair infraction. There needs to be a balance a.k.a. no looking the other way in answer hall. Don't get me wrong the answer hall does serve a purpose but it is not used to fullest.

Suggested Fix:

1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.

OR

2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).

As soon as kevinpowers actually abused his powers (by fucking up the reports forum), he was permabanned. Prior to that his only issue was that he was an enormous douchebag. Also, we answer pretty much every question in the answer hall, so I have no idea what you're talking about there. The legal court thing is fucking stupid, once again this is a forum not a government. Raptor decides who to take on staff and who to fire, and both rev and I trust his judgement. The elected member thing is also fucking stupid, because anyone can report abuse whenever they want through PMs.

No community involvement

No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.

Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.

I play games with people here all the time. I'm not going to go out of my way to play some shit game I don't want to though, and I doubt many people do. If you want more community events, organize them yourself.

Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation

Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.

Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.

We rarely need new mods, and when we do, we tend to pick from the keeper pool because we already know they're trustworthy. Also, we don't want the public to pick someone bad and shoot themselves in the foot, because then we have to clean up the mess.

Make it so keepers have to work as a keeper for at least a year (or a certain amount like 3 moths, etc) before you get in-game mod powers

Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Also allows you guys to weed out problems and/or inactivity before giving full powers in-game.

I don't think we've ever given in-game mod to a keeper who hasn't been on the team for quite some time.

Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets(Not staff chat, just general chat)

Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.

The staff Skype chat is like 70% random banter about unrelated things anyway. The rest is joking around and laughing at shitposts on the forums, people telling me something on the site broke, or talking about reports. There's nothing interesting there, and if you want we can add you to it for some time so you can see for yourself.

[CmG]

because in the OP the poll pertains to staff members, so you cant vote on yourself..... that's like asking a me to rate myself. charming handsom genius awesomesauce.....

It's silly because we are probably the guys who waste most of our freetime with it. We should clearly be included in all polls about sc2mafia. I for my part try to be as fair as possible without bias. Still doesn't always work out... But that's life.

[Raptorblaze]

It's silly because we are probably the guys who waste most of our freetime with it. We should clearly be included in all polls about sc2mafia. I for my part try to be as fair as possible without bias. Still doesn't always work out... But that's life.

Like I said they were ideas >.> Don't get all pissed when I ask for feedback on them.

[AppleyNO]

Just so everyone knows, since last night we (The Gen Disc Mods) have been rewriting the rules for General Disc. Once they are finished and approved, we will post them here. The goal is for the rules is to cover everything we already infract for in an easy to read format.

[TimeTrx]

Just so everyone knows, since last night we (The Gen Disc Mods) have been rewriting the rules for General Disc. Once they are finished and approved, we will post them here. The goal is for the rules is to cover everything we already infract for in an easy to read format.

That will nice.

So... I get the feeling from Time's wall of text that it's more a lack of understanding of what actually happens than actual problems. Would you guys like me to do an AMA or something about staff as a system rather than the people in it?

All of those are suggestions.

Actually it's because we recruit active members of the community 90% of the time. Also the information density of your 3 paragraph posts leaves a lot to be desired when you repeat the same thing over and over and over. There is a predictable theme to your posts. Always.

Your right I'm predictable, what is the problem with that? Do you not want my input because I would be fine with that.

The staff Skype chat is like 70% random banter about unrelated things anyway. The rest is joking around and laughing at shitposts on the forums, people telling me something on the site broke, or talking about reports. There's nothing interesting there, and if you want we can add you to it for some time so you can see for yourself.

Not talking about staff chat....

[Raptorblaze]

All of those are suggestions.
Suggestions that demonstrate a deep misunderstanding of what actually goes on.


Your right I'm predictable, what is the problem with that? Do you not want my input because I would be fine with that.

I don't want your input because it's the same input every single time


Not talking about staff chat....
Then you need to entirely rewrite that section because we can't make heads or tails of it.

[TimeTrx]

Alright I will rewrite the entire thing.

So... I get the feeling from Time's wall of text that it's more a lack of understanding of what actually happens than actual problems. Would you guys like me to do an AMA or something about staff as a system rather than the people in it?

Yes.

[SuperJack]

The vote I gave, would of been the same even if I had not only recently been made staff. It's an honest vote on how the forum is moderated from my views. I like things clean.

[Mateo]

i was in a game with a staff member, i think his name was raptor something. he used modspeak to reveal 3 was mafia, when he was actually 3 and jester. then he had the audacity to give everyone in the game 20 points.

THIS STAFF ABUSE IS UNACCEPTABLE. BOYCOTT MAFIA UNTIL CHANGE IS MADE

#freetibet

[Raptorblaze]

i was in a game with a staff member, i think his name was raptor something. he used modspeak to reveal 3 was mafia, when he was actually 3 and jester. then he had the audacity to give everyone in the game 20 points.

THIS STAFF ABUSE IS UNACCEPTABLE. BOYCOTT MAFIA UNTIL CHANGE IS MADE

#freetibet

Replay or gtfo lol

[Mateo]

Replay or gtfo lol

it was just a test game, we were only there so the minimum game could start

My bad, thanks.

Ok, so here is my wall of text.

I voted for 2. The reason is a simple series of lack of written laws, failures of the system and the lack of checks balances for the staff.

stopped reading there.

the forum is not a democracy ffs. the fact that anyone still works for free to try to keep the game running, thats all volunteer work. and im sure its not worth the extra work and responsibility to have in game mod powers. then they show the restraint to allow you to talk shit without banning you if you dont make it personal.

the problem with giving ppl an opinion is they start to think their opinion means something. hitler had the right idea.

addendum:
you people complaining about the keeper tryouts, you are the same type A personality psychos that wash out of the police academies' psych evaluation. im glad you arent given any power, you all would pull landys at some point.

[Damus_Graves]

it was just a test game, we were only there so the minimum game could start



stopped reading there.

the forum is not a democracy ffs. the fact that anyone still works for free to try to keep the game running, thats all volunteer work. and im sure its not worth the extra work and responsibility to have in game mod powers. then they show the restraint to allow you to talk shit without banning you if you dont make it personal.

the problem with giving ppl an opinion is they start to think their opinion means something. hitler had the right idea.

addendum:
you people complaining about the keeper tryouts, you are the same type A personality psychos that wash out of the police academies' psych evaluation. im glad you arent given any power, you all would pull landys at some point.

Did I ever tell you i love you :3

[AppleyNO]

Careful. I don't want this to devolve, again, into a flame fest. But yea, Matt has a point about this place not being a democracy :P

[Mateo]

Did I ever tell you i love you :3

♥

Careful. I don't want this to devolve, again, into a flame fest. But yea, Matt has a point about this place not being a democracy :P

no flame intended, i think people should realiz the reason we dont see many mods in game is because they have lives outside this game. landy, for obvious reasons, was an exception

[AppleyNO]

no flame intended, i think people should realiz the reason we dont see many mods in game is because they have lives outside this game. landy, for obvious reasons, was an exception

<3

[kyle1234513]

♥

no flame intended, i think people should realiz the reason we dont see many mods in game is because they have lives outside this game. landy, for obvious reasons, was an exception

ive played 770 ish games, 8 games have been moderated, 7 were by creed (all in one day, just chaining mafia that day) and 1 was by raptor, he was there by request.
so I would say 1% of games are moderated on the spot.

I would very much like it to be more....

[Raptorblaze]

ive played 770 ish games, 8 games have been moderated, 7 were by creed (all in one day, just chaining mafia that day) and 1 was by raptor, he was there by request.
so I would say 1% of games are moderated on the spot.

I would very much like it to be more....

You don't trust us, but you want us around more >.> Well I'll see what I can do....

[Mateo]

ive played 770 ish games, 8 games have been moderated, 7 were by creed (all in one day, just chaining mafia that day) and 1 was by raptor, he was there by request.
so I would say 1% of games are moderated on the spot.

I would very much like it to be more....

start a charity to fund paid moderators.

[kyle1234513]

You don't trust us, but you want us around more >.> Well I'll see what I can do....

yes, I feel an intimidating presence in games would cut back on gamethrows by a lot. that goes for all moderators. just seeing that "red warning a moderator is in the game" does a lot.


edit - trust has nothing to do with function.

[AppleyNO]

ive played 770 ish games, 8 games have been moderated, 7 were by creed (all in one day, just chaining mafia that day) and 1 was by raptor, he was there by request.
so I would say 1% of games are moderated on the spot.

I would very much like it to be more....

1% of your games have been moderated.

There are mods, like Mugy, who play all the time. Mafia is currently the 10th highest played game on NA.

As another note, Moderators In-Game can do very little. Sure you can kick a Gamethrower, but he can just play again and now a role is dead. Sure you can kick a group of cheaters, but how will that affect balance? We can't take any action until someone actually does something.

[Mateo]

yes, I feel an intimidating presence in games would cut back on gamethrows by a lot. that goes for all moderators. just seeing that "red warning a moderator is in the game" does a lot.


edit - trust has nothing to do with function.

like the gestapo?

edit:
new role suggestion: secret police. sheriffs that have night chat and can black bag a target once every other night

[kyle1234513]

1% of your games have been moderated.

There are mods, like Mugy, who play all the time. Mafia is currently the 10th highest played game on NA.

As another note, Moderators In-Game can do very little. Sure you can kick a Gamethrower, but he can just play again and now a role is dead. Sure you can kick a group of cheaters, but how will that affect balance? We can't take any action until someone actually does something.

totally fine with that. I wish it was like this all the time. on the spot justice.

edit - if a game has been thrown, or there is a group of cheaters, if theyre there the game is ruined anyway (in my eyes) and ive wasted 25-30minutes of my time. at least this way the offenders get some type of on the spot punishment and theyre deterred slightly from doing it to the next game.

[Mateo]

totally fine with that. I wish it was like this all the time. on the spot justice.

edit - if a game has been thrown, or there is a group of cheaters, if theyre there the game is ruined anyway (in my eyes) and ive wasted 25-30minutes of my time. at least this way the offenders get some type of punishment.

new role suggestion, for mods only: judge dredd. cannot be killed and can kill as many targets as wanted in one night. targets killed by the judge are automatically uploaded to ban list.

[AppleyNO]

totally fine with that. I wish it was like this all the time. on the spot justice.

So you want us to ruin a ton of games because the sheriff and the doctor were skyping, for example? We have to think about how our actions are going to affect the outcome of the game.

Test: A revealed Mayor votes to lynch a random towny instead of the confirmed Mafia. There are 5 town to 1 mafia. Who, if anyone, do you kick?

[kyle1234513]

no1, bad mayors or troll mayors aren't rulebreaking, its a bad game to be in, not a ruined one.

edit - a ruined game is one where an offense is committed and I would take the time to report it here. a bad game is one where roles aren't played out by professionals and mistakes are made. which is fine and understandable, some people are just noobs and just need to learn the ropes. I can live with bad games all day. its the ruined ones that need to be prevented or stoped on the spot.

[AppleyNO]

no1, bad mayors or troll mayors aren't rulebreaking, its a bad game to be in, not a ruined one.

Wow, Moderators won't do their job. He is obviously Gamethrowing and possibly skyping with the Mafia!!!!! Kick them both!!!

That is how we feel when we read these things. The best way to stop someone from cheating and/or gamethrowing has and is to put them on a list. 100% of the gamethrowers who are banned aren't gamethrowing and ruining games right now.

[AppleyNO]

edit - a ruined game is one where an offense is committed and I would take the time to report it here. a bad game is one where roles aren't played out by professionals and mistakes are made. which is fine and understandable, some people are just noobs and just need to learn the ropes. I can live with bad games all day. its the ruined ones that need to be prevented or stoped on the spot.

Once someone gamethrows, how do you fix the game? A ruined game is still a ruined game.

[kyle1234513]

Wow, Moderators won't do their job. He is obviously Gamethrowing and possibly skyping with the Mafia!!!!! Kick them both!!!

That is how we feel when we read these things. The best way to stop someone from cheating and/or gamethrowing has and is to put them on a list. 100% of the gamethrowers who are banned aren't gamethrowing and ruining games right now.

then I would say its your job to be above the insults and name calling, and just flat out ignore it. stuff like that wouldn't bother me, if its not rulebreaking its not rulebreaking.

Once someone gamethrows, how do you fix the game? A ruined game is still a ruined game.

I totally agree, if its ruined its been ruined. at least with on the spot justice they know they cant go on to the next game, and ruin games for hours, and force players to quit and stop playing for the day.

and if they do go to the next game, and reports are made, and warnings were given, I would estimate hes at least kickvoted or ban listed by the end of the day.

[AppleyNO]

then I would say its your job to be above the insults and name calling, and just flat out ignore it. stuff like that wouldn't bother me, if its not rulebreaking its not rulebreaking.



I totally agree, if its ruined its been ruined. at least with on the spot justice they know they cant go on to the next game, and ruin games for hours, and force players to quit and stop playing for the day.

and if they do go to the next game, and reports are made, and warnings were given, I would estimate hes at least kickvoted or ban listed by the end of the day.

My entire point has been that In-Game Moderation does not affect the report process or the KV/Ban lists. You can still report people with or without a Moderator to be in the game.

Anyway, I have other things to do , I'll be back later.

[kyle1234513]

My entire point has been that In-Game Moderation does not affect the report process or the KV/Ban lists. You can still report people with or without a Moderator to be in the game.

Anyway, I have other things to do , I'll be back later.

as I recall when a gamethrower has been warned not to do something by official mod chat (the red warning messege) the punishment is double. so if 2 games are moderated and if a warning is given by a moderator at the start of every match, I would see this person on max kickvote if he gamethrew 2 consecutive games. if a mod is present in a game, and kicks the person after the match ends, the game gets reported, the person who was kicked is punished on the spot with the kick, and by online reporting. that person is significantly less likely to go to the next game and attempt to ruin it, instead that person will just log off and quit for a while. because the moderator would just kick him after he does it and hes going to be severely punished for what he has done.
and that person may not be out to reveal mafia, or Skype with friends, he could be playing poorly, acting to mislynch, nothing gamethrowing, but does affect the game, and makes it a poor experience for the other 14 members, nothing rule breaking and reportable. but with a moderator around, I believe that just stops.

[ypmagic]

1% of your games have been moderated.

There are mods, like Mugy, who play all the time. Mafia is currently the 10th highest played game on NA.

As another note, Moderators In-Game can do very little. Sure you can kick a Gamethrower, but he can just play again and now a role is dead. Sure you can kick a group of cheaters, but how will that affect balance? We can't take any action until someone actually does something.

It comes and goes. I think right now its 8th or 7th. Wouldn't an increase in players demand more moderation in the games? So I think this is where the in-game report system is going to come in handy. But it would eliminate the report process on the forums, so I don't know how that's going to work. It would eliminate the need of the subforum and the keepers unless the report system is going to be written on a spreadsheet and all the keepers work off of Google Docs.