tl;dr I'm not satisfied because I'm not moderator.
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tl;dr I'm not satisfied because I'm not moderator.
Thing is, how would you define "reputable"? There are many, many instances of respected members of the community pulling a heel face turn and wrecking things. Claw, Kevinpowers are the ones that immediately come to mind. Plus that thing that happened with Landstander. If we have a respected member of the community having the power to ban people on his own and that person turns bad, he could cause a whole lot of damage before too many people noticed. That looks bad on the whole community.
Hell, even if they don't turn bad, it can still look bad on the community. If someone reports a game where they lose, then it immediately looks like they're just mad and raging. People start crying MOD ABUSE and everything goes to hell.
No. We need a full report system. We just need one that isn't such a pain for everyone involved.
Or people could just stop cheating. That would be even better...
And if I die tomorrow, I'd be alright because I believe that after we're gone, the spirit carries on...
Spoiler : FM History :
Voted 5! I wouldn't want to be a keeper, thanks for all volunteers! Your hard works is being thanked by me
Oh boy. Please don't put Claw and Kevinpowers on the same level. Claw did one error in one FM. He was before that a pillar of the sc2mafia community. Dont you ever dare to compare him with Kevinpowers again.
Thank you!
Spoiler : fm history :
I had two idols when I first joined FMs mate. Claw and Yayap.
I really don't see why people hate Claw so much. He was a genius
No he is not a genius. But he is alright.
Spoiler : fm history :
I can understand why some people believe we are slackers and don't actually" want to do it for the community".
But I assure you, you don't know what it's like until you become a keeper.
I came in with the same enthusiasm as I was doing something for the community, and probably like every single newcomer, I thought I could continue doining 20 reports a day.
When I started to burn out after two weeks, I thought to myself" I can do one a day for the rest of my time here for sure" and how wrong I was.
Spoiler : :
I understand, but I'm a student that has like 8 hours of nothing to do after like 3 hours of studying cause all the other Korean kids are in school. Even when I wanna play a game, they're all in school. I have like a bunch of time left over. People like me on vacation have absolutely nothing to do and surely would love to occupy themselves with things that could help other people (not necessarily true cause its only me)
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
I just told myself I was going to do 8 reports today. Lets see how many I actually do : D
On another note, the next time we have a keeper tryouts I am definitely going to recommend we do it differently.
EDIT: I did 5. Be happy.
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
Not the first time people have questioned my influence on staff decisions, lets say some things.
- The people I had a voice on hiring/promoting
Deantwo
Capitalier
Gerik
ckMistro
Damus
Cryptonic
Fred
You might say I gave Capitalier staff again, as I sought him out to fill his old slot, but he had earned it once ago long before I was even on site.
On the topic of Gerik and ckMistro.... lol. I did push for both of them to sign up and complete the trials, and I regularly pushed them to do more. I wanted them to make the mark, but through the test. The fact that both only did like 1-2 reports and still made it shocked even me.
I got a text from Gerik when he was promoted which was responded to with, something like, 'lolwut'.
My first response in staff chat after ck was promoted was 'Hunter.... made it?', this was even his Meet the Staff description for a bit.
Literally the extent of my suggesting they got staff was 'I think Gerik will do the job well if hired.' (please notice the lack of comment on Mistro) and until this point he has. He completed the reports quicker than 42, who was seemingly the #1 consensus pick. ckMistro has also managed to be quick, and have minimal error at all.
I couldn't even edit the spreadsheet for the trials, and never posted my thoughts on the other applicants, so I'm sure that aided in it appearing I was focused on my friends. However, I was watching everyone and was legitimately shocked that either was hired. But it wasn't my decision, it was Creeds, and it has managed to work out thus far.
My other whim, hand-picking, has basically consisted of
'Why is Cryptonic (mod) not green if he is a mod?' and
'Damus (mod) should be MafDisc mod.'
You might also say 'Fred (mod) really is more of a blue.' would make it.
Literally the only person I ever just selected to give staff to was Deantwo. He was the wiki mod, and made an incredible amount of sense for a mod in the wave of Mods that hit the site a few months ago. Deantwo is also one of the staff members that I have managed to have the least personal interaction with, and was at 0 before his hire.
I am involved in decision making, but I am not just hand-favoritism-picking anyone for any reasons outside of thinking they will do the job well.
Preach!
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
I completely agree. The next FM I will make sure to read every post to make sure no one is alive while I'm not playing instead of alt+tabbing from the website to the skype chat and not really paying attention to it.
In all actuality any talking about any FM stuff in any channel is already disallowed, and even with some members not even playing or caring what is going on; the topic of the ongoing Forum Mafia should not have even been brought up.
I, at the very least, will make sure to pay attention to this stuff now.
And I'm just gonna put it out that all reviews should be done by PM.... anybody could copy the review above theirs and change it a bit and not do anything....On the topic of Gerik and ckMistro.... lol. I did push for both of them to sign up and complete the trials, and I regularly pushed them to do more. I wanted them to make the mark, but through the test. The fact that both only did like 1-2 reports and still made it shocked even me.
I got a text from Gerik when he was promoted which was responded to with, something like, 'lolwut'.
My first response in staff chat after ck was promoted was 'Hunter.... made it?', this was even his Meet the Staff description for a bit.
Literally the extent of my suggesting they got staff was 'I think Gerik will do the job well if hired.' (please notice the lack of comment on Mistro) and until this point he has. He completed the reports quicker than 42, who was seemingly the #1 consensus pick. ckMistro has also managed to be quick, and have minimal error at all.
I couldn't even edit the spreadsheet for the trials, and never posted my thoughts on the other applicants, so I'm sure that aided in it appearing I was focused on my friends. However, I was watching everyone and was legitimately shocked that either was hired. But it wasn't my decision, it was Creeds, and it has managed to work out thus far.
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
This poll is stupid anyway. Creates more problems than finding problems to troubleshoot.
About the whole mods are ezmode job:
There is a reason I don't play SC2mafia much anymore. Once I got staff and people began seeing me as an ingame mod I was targeted more and more. Being a benefactor only make things worse. Verbal abuse and the ruination of games immediately began becoming a thing in every game i joined. No matter how I tried to hide my presence it got out and the game was thus destroyed by trolls and idiots trying to get a rise out of me or just wanting to take things out on me for X reason. It was because of this that I changed my username to something more unknown but didn't completely eliminate me from being recognizable by other staff members. I joined a game, in which land was in as well as other known trolls and rule breakers, and Landstander immediately outed me as staff and the trolling, targeting, and game ruining begun once again. As things began Landstander left the game, showing his intent on ruining the chance at some relaxation I would have gotten and placing me once again under the crosshairs of those mentioned above. Being a mod is a tough job and the verbal abuse you gain from being one is not worth the benefit of the position. It is the singular notice of making sure that others games are not ruined by rule breakers that keeps me staying in a staff position. {Specifically talking about my time as a keeper)
I disagree. This entire thread is full of great and no-so great ideas to help make the staff better. I'm sure we will be talking about them further in the next few days.
Continue posting problems you have with the staff. Its systems, forum rules, certain moderators(although please be nice!), etc. We are listening and reacting to what you are saying.
Being an in-game moderator/keeper is the antithesis to the "It's all fun and games" statement. You take what should be fun and games and spend every moment of it analyzing it to see and punish whosoever is having their fun at the expense of others', without leaving much fun for yourself to be had.
And it's rather frustrating that there isn't a "Spectator" viewpoint from which to moderate the game, so that we can actually see the roles of everyone without abusing. Almost makes me glad to die night 1.
This has to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. Who cares if people flame you in games, sticks and stones man... Also, how do people find you in the game? Do you name yourself something like "Damus the Grave Keeping Moderator" every single game or something. Try not choosing a name... or choosing different things that people won't be able to relate to you. ps. How can you be a sc2mafia mod and not even play? Seems counterproductive
@ the Gerik & Mistro part: I'm gonna call BS that Slaol had no affect on the choice of new keeper's. Slaol has an affect on Creed who has an affect on the choices. Just sayin'. lol
@ Glip. It's easy to play a game and enjoy yourself and catch cheaters. The only time the game isn't fun is when the cheaters ruin it, and they ruin it for everybody and not just a Moderator. You don't need to have a list of everyone's roles to know who is cheating.. >_> I don't have it.. I just look for people who tunnel vision on scum and then flip a non-investigative role. Then I watch the replay from that person's point of view and see if I can understand it the way they saw it.
Like I've tried to tell the two or three people trying to talk me into making them moderators without them having to do keeper duties, being a moderator in game is NOT about exercising your powers. It gives you some tools to better investigate people's behavior during the course of a game (and especially once you're dead) such as -real if you see people join the game as a party to identify who they are and watch their behavior or -msg to prod people who appear to be AFK throwing but for the most part they are merely our eyes and ears in game and dedicated reporters. Many of the abilities we're capable of exercising in game only damage the game more once it becomes obvious someone is committing and offense (My primary powers used are -points to restore bank files and -kick for lag griefers and the command to let me walk around to make people laugh before they lynch me) only hurt the gameplay more and are discouraged. It's not that mods don't WANT to play the game, it's that the way DR coded some of the commands makes it impossible for them to remain incognito and changes the game play to target them routinely. The biggest solution to this is to make commands not reveal which ingame name used the commands, just the moderator's name.
You're right, it shouldn't reveal who you are when you use the command. But Mod presence in games is supposed to deter crimes, not to sit back in the shadows waiting for someone to do something wrong.
Also, if you're getting targeted because you reveal yourself as a mod in the game, then you're doing it wrong lol.
Just asking, are Keepers listed as Moderators ingame?
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
Last edited by Glip; June 26th, 2013 at 07:06 AM.
--------Pending Wall of Text Incoming-----------------
Also the poll should have ended 9 hours ago or is my computer time off?
Lol, 1. RB you dun goof'd!
I was wondering if guests can still post in the Reports section?
We are opposed to the line of compromise with imperialism. At the same time, we cannot tolerate the practice of only shouting against imperialism, but, in actual fact, being afraid to fight it. Kim Il Sung
[CENTER]S-FM: Bus Drivers, S-FM: Trust, S-FM: Double Killers, S-FM: Double Killers Too, S-FM: Heart of the Swarm [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOST[SIZE=1]
My bad, thanks.It ends in july.
Ok, so here is my wall of text.
I voted for 2. The reason is a simple series of lack of written laws, failures of the system and the lack of checks balances for the staff.
First of all I like to say the report system is fine, a lot of people say it is bad but in fact I have no issues with it except for the occasional backlog but that is not usually in staff's control. The problem overall is:
Lack of clearly defined rules
Every forum a have been to has a centralized structure to it. Basically their are general rules that are clearly stated (e.g. causing racial hatred can give you an infraction no matter what section of the forum you post it in) and apply to the entire site regardless; basically it is a constitution that guarantees: natural inalienable rights. This one does not, which means every section (the R&D group, General/reports group, and site disc. group) make their own rules and give you no guaranteed rights at all (e.g. your topics and posts can be deleted without notice if someone on staff doesn't like them regardless of morality).
Suggested Fix:
Implement a centralized system (e.g constitutional republic) with clearly defined ranks, rules, and publicly available for all to see and include unalienable natural rights for regular members.
Staff (Members) not held fully responsible for actions
The biggest problem with this site is when people get into is staff is the abuse they cause; kevinpowers anyone? But besides that, as a regular member I don't see much of the corruption, apart from the amount of deleted threads and posts and the rare unfair infraction. There needs to be a balance a.k.a. no looking the other way in answer hall. Don't get me wrong the answer hall does serve a purpose but it is not used to fullest.
Suggested Fix:
1)Put an infraction system in for staff so they can held accountable. Modify answer hall to be to accept complains, and if they are accepted (look suspect or there is a probable cause) start topic in a public thread where it acts like a legal court. The person with the complaint can bring the issue to light and where the accused can defend himself while an admin or higher staff member keeps watch on the situation and who makes the final decision on the issue.
OR
2)Allow the lower members (non-staff) to have an elected member on a staff that: has no admin/mod powers, no in-game powers and only job is to bring to light the abuse to the greater staff by reporting it directly to the top. whenever you have a problem you would contact this person and he would fight for you on staff. The member would be chosen by election every 4 months, and could hold no more than 3 terms in a row (or 1 year).
No community involvement
No community comes from the cycle of: staff doing the reports and not wanting to play mafia after. I understand it is hard work but your getting yourself distanced from the community. We need to play games with you guys. FM is good but more organized events with League of Legends, Voice-Only Mafia, etc.
Suggested Fix:
Create a community manager position that does more than just FMs.
Only way to join staff is through keepers... separate reports section staff from forum moderation
Basically the only way to get on staff is through being a keeper. No one that I can remember started as a forum moderator.
Suggested Fix:
Split the Forum keeper position and forum moderator completely. If you want to be a keeper, you have to be selected by staff and if you do well you be kept, else you'll be cut, if you survive long enough If you want to be a forum mod, you get no in-game mod powers and (least it should be) voted in by your peers by 2 steps. First Staff picks a list of candidates and then from that list they announce a vote between the candidates. This allows staff to control the people they want in but allows the general public to vote on who they want in as well. Think of it as this staff gives a chance to general users and if they shoot themselves in the foot and pick a bad person they screwed up not you. If they pick a good candidate that wants the position and works hard it may very well decrease corruption for the staff.
Make it so keepers have to work as a keeper for at least a year (or a certain amount like 3 moths, etc) before you get in-game mod powers
Obvious, prevents in-game abuse that you guys seem to have a bad image right now. Also allows you guys to weed out problems and/or inactivity before giving full powers in-game.
Skype is where 80%+ of conversation goes on..... Stop with the secrets(Not staff chat, just general chat)
Be more open all these closed/deleted threads to the staff skype. Come on guys be more open use chatbox more and post more it is a forum after all. Implementing the above few fixes should also help with that.
Anyway thanks for reading, if you want me to go into detail or explain more just ask. Feedback would be great too!
EDIT: Edited to explain better from people's feedback: Glip and Mugy7. (as of last edit)
Last edited by TimeTrx; June 26th, 2013 at 11:12 PM.
I have played over a hundred games of mafia in the past two weeks. We do play games. There's just so many games going on that the odds that you end up in the same one as us are rather small.
I can name four off the top of my head: Slaol, Borkbot, Deantwo, and Eagleman. None of these four moderators started as a keeper. Cryptonic didn't become mod through being a keeper either, although he did once help with a backlog.
At least a year? Where did you hear this? I have in-game mod powers and I haven't even been keeper for half a year... and I've had mod powers for a couple months or so.
The Staff skype chatroom is just a chatroom. Most of the conversation that goes on in there is idle chit-chat, or irrelevant to the forums completely. And as for posting more, have you noticed that 17 (not including FMGM) out of the top 20 posters on the site are either staff or ex-staff?
Last edited by Glip; June 26th, 2013 at 11:11 PM.