Day 4

[FM Galloway]

alrighty. <-- chapman

@Galletta

do you feel like Lichtmann is purposly trying to act like McKelty?

[FM Galletta]

Your perception of things is just as valuable as anyone else's. It's not all about hard facts. Why would you pass up on an opportunity to enlighten others? And if you have no desire to say anything, why even play? You could as well ask for a replacement.

Because I do have a desire to play, but as I said, I just have nothing to contribute which hasn't already been restated 50,000 times. If you want my opinion, I think Galloway seems to be trying a bit hard to seem like a town leader, drilling others on their thoughts.

I also think that Chapman is sucking from Galloway's teet, like an unborn infant surviving on an umbilical cord.

But that is pressure for another time.

As of now, I think Lichtmann is probably the best target. As a matter of fact --

-vote FM Lichtmann

[FM Galletta]

alrighty. <-- chapman

@Galletta

do you feel like Lichtmann is purposly trying to act like McKelty?

Yes, very much so.

[FM Parker]

I have contributed my thoughts. As of now, Lichtmann would seem to be the best target. He is trying to act like McKelty did before he was hammered.

Also, posting the same redundant thoughts countless times after others =/= being active.

If anything, it just makes you look scummy. Kind of like you hopping on anything that Galloway feeds you.

Agreeing with someone for different reasons =/= rehashing. You should not avoiding expressing who you think the scum are. I'd like to know your opinion on all the active players in the game, with reasons.

[FM Galloway]

Because I do have a desire to play, but as I said, I just have nothing to contribute which hasn't already been restated 50,000 times. If you want my opinion, I think Galloway seems to be trying a bit hard to seem like a town leader, drilling others on their thoughts.

I also think that Chapman is sucking from Galloway's teet, like an unborn infant surviving on an umbilical cord.

But that is pressure for another time.

As of now, I think Lichtmann is probably the best target. As a matter of fact --

-vote FM Lichtmann

Thats because I am. Its not Town Leader exactly but my own version of it. The more thoughts out there the better off town is imo.

Agreeing with someone for different reasons =/= rehashing. You should not avoiding expressing who you think the scum are. I'd like to know your opinion on all the active players in the game, with reasons.

If you don't explain a vote its practically the same thing.

[FM Parker]

If you don't explain a vote its practically the same thing.

That's what I was intending to communicate. Someone with different reasons isn't a rehasher usually.

[FM Galletta]

Agreeing with someone for different reasons =/= rehashing. You should not avoiding expressing who you think the scum are. I'd like to know your opinion on all the active players in the game, with reasons.

Galloway - trying too hard to appear to be a leader.

Chapman - too eager to follow.

Lichtmann - acting like McKelty.

Leary - retarded.

Monroe - quick to make side chat, like talking about yesterday when Cohen was lynched - not for any particular reason other than to joke around.

Ballard - he seems quite eccentric, but I find him most likely to be town than any of the rest of you.

That's the most I'm willing to reveal at the moment.

[Dunn]

Dunn - Soft claimed a saving role? Trying to see the motive behind this, and it's hard. Especially since he had no pressure against him. Unless you count Galloway calling you a [bleep] pressure.

I'd hardly call it soft. And if you see no gain in claiming a role other than to avoid pressure I would say you are scum. Please explain how there is never a good use of claiming other than to avoid pressure. Maybe it isn't my real role, maybe I have already netted a gain for the town and it would help to clarify the roles list, maybe it is my real role and I want the Mafia to consider all these options to add to the confusion for them I already intend to cause before speaking.

[FM Galletta]

Thats because I am. Its not Town Leader exactly but my own version of it. The more thoughts out there the better off town is imo.

While I agree with that, you seem to ever-so-slightly manipulate the conversation into a tunnel on somebody else. Like you, asking opinions about Lichtmann.

[Dunn]

By the way, I have time it would appear for the day, as well as much of tomorrow (the other half of day, not day 5).

[FM Galloway]

While I agree with that, you seem to ever-so-slightly manipulate the conversation into a tunnel on somebody else. Like you, asking opinions about Lichtmann.

I've asked about others, not just lichtmann. Everyone else seems to be overly focused on him and generally ignore the others, such as Earle, that are just as scummy.

[FM Chapman]

Because I do have a desire to play, but as I said, I just have nothing to contribute which hasn't already been restated 50,000 times. If you want my opinion, I think Galloway seems to be trying a bit hard to seem like a town leader, drilling others on their thoughts.

I also think that Chapman is sucking from Galloway's teet, like an unborn infant surviving on an umbilical cord.

But that is pressure for another time.

As of now, I think Lichtmann is probably the best target. As a matter of fact --

-vote FM Lichtmann

Considering that most of the interaction between me and Galloway has been either him disagreeing with me or him agreeing with me, rather than the other way around, I think you ought to do a bit of rereading.

[FM Monroe]

I'd hardly call it soft. And if you see no gain in claiming a role other than to avoid pressure I would say you are scum. Please explain how there is never a good use of claiming other than to avoid pressure. Maybe it isn't my real role, maybe I have already netted a gain for the town and it would help to clarify the roles list, maybe it is my real role and I want the Mafia to consider all these options to add to the confusion for them I already intend to cause before speaking.

For the sake of your argument that your claim could have been a diversion, could you explain why exactly you think Cafarelli is a (savage) investigator and not a consigliere? Because the mafia would be the only people who would know for certain if you lied. And only the savages would know for sure if you told the truth. The town is left guessing.

[Dunn]

For the sake of your argument that your claim could have been a diversion, could you explain why exactly you think Cafarelli is a (savage) investigator and not a consigliere? Because the mafia would be the only people who would know for certain if you lied. And only the savages would know for sure if you told the truth. The town is left guessing.

Im not certain I understand the latter end of your post. However, the reason I would say Savage would be a slight change in posting style, and the push on a Drug Dealer / Kidnapper. While a Consigliere might be able to pawn off a mislynch, a Savage Investigator that pulled off a lynch of the Mafia would net town credit in mass.
I am less certain than before of Carafelli, but I do still suspect he may be hiding in plain sight.

[FM Leary]

I'm not avoiding this but I feel explaining this would be possibly stepping too far into COM claiming. Therefore, I will not. However, you should have more evidence than "post style" before claiming someone as scum.

Herding and manipulating town despite clearly not having the best, most cleancut plan / initiating votes.

Now you point at an irrelevant thing which would be your own possible COM which is entirely worthless in the scenario you actually were new. Given that you didn't know how the Journalist works this just envigorates my urge to get you out of the way.

As i said, mixed signals are usually leaked by disoriented scum.

[FM Monroe]

I've asked about others, not just lichtmann. Everyone else seems to be overly focused on him and generally ignore the others, such as Earle, that are just as scummy.

Disagree.

Biggs, Monroe, Lichtmann, Parker, Galletta are all being called scum suspects by multiple people. Some reasons are garbage if you ask me, but not all of them are. I feel we have very little to go on right now, largely because the game appears to be set up in such a way that getting hard evidence on anyone is difficult. Props to the host I guess, but it makes lurkers and non-contributors all the more frustrating to deal with.

I think the town is extremely divided right now and could use more direction. But my own list of suspects is so stupidly long I just don't know where to start anymore. I kind of wish we had a bunch of gunsmith guns to kill people with. Then at least we'd learn something at a faster pace.

[FM Monroe]

Im not certain I understand the latter end of your post. However, the reason I would say Savage would be a slight change in posting style, and the push on a Drug Dealer / Kidnapper. While a Consigliere might be able to pawn off a mislynch, a Savage Investigator that pulled off a lynch of the Mafia would net town credit in mass.
I am less certain than before of Carafelli, but I do still suspect he may be hiding in plain sight.

Alright, I think that's sufficient clarification. A consigliere might want to kill off an arsonist who doused their team members though. And the mafia would be the only ones to know about it. One of the first few interesting ideas proposed by Hogeboom today.

[FM Phelps]

Alright, I think that's sufficient clarification. A consigliere might want to kill off an arsonist who doused their team members though. And the mafia would be the only ones to know about it. One of the first few interesting ideas proposed by Hogeboom today.

Doesn't help because the Arso would have just plain day burned. Silly Idea.

[FM Parker]

Disagree.

Biggs, Monroe, Lichtmann, Parker, Galletta are all being called scum suspects by multiple people. Some reasons are garbage if you ask me, but not all of them are. I feel we have very little to go on right now, largely because the game appears to be set up in such a way that getting hard evidence on anyone is difficult. Props to the host I guess, but it makes lurkers and non-contributors all the more frustrating to deal with.

I think the town is extremely divided right now and could use more direction. But my own list of suspects is so stupidly long I just don't know where to start anymore. I kind of wish we had a bunch of gunsmith guns to kill people with. Then at least we'd learn something at a faster pace.

Learning something at a faster pace is exactly what we would do if we lynched Biggs. If he's savage (like I suspect) then we've gotten a scum and a possible lead on how the savages communicate forcing them to radically change directions. If Biggs is mafia, we gain a mafia kill and have one less problem role to deal with. If Biggs is town, we confirm a witch is indeed present in the game and therefore cap the number of neutrals present in the game. We should lynch today and Biggs seems like the most logical target, due to the information that would yield.

[FM Monroe]

Doesn't help because the Arso would have just plain day burned. Silly Idea.

Burn after Cafarelli posted that investigation pairing on him? If he had any hope at all to not be lynched, I can't see why he would do that.

[FM Galloway]

I know I missed clarification on Briggs but can it be linked/reposted so I am view it?
Like Monroe said direction for town is the best thing at this moment and I wanna see if there is anything too Briggs train.

[FM Chapman]

Learning something at a faster pace is exactly what we would do if we lynched Biggs. If he's savage (like I suspect) then we've gotten a scum and a possible lead on how the savages communicate forcing them to radically change directions. If Biggs is mafia, we gain a mafia kill and have one less problem role to deal with. If Biggs is town, we confirm a witch is indeed present in the game and therefore cap the number of neutrals present in the game. We should lynch today and Biggs seems like the most logical target, due to the information that would yield.

All of this is true, but you've given no real reasoning on why he could be cult or mafia other than him being witched twice.

[FM Monroe]

Learning something at a faster pace is exactly what we would do if we lynched Biggs. If he's savage (like I suspect) then we've gotten a scum and a possible lead on how the savages communicate forcing them to radically change directions. If Biggs is mafia, we gain a mafia kill and have one less problem role to deal with. If Biggs is town, we confirm a witch is indeed present in the game and therefore cap the number of neutrals present in the game. We should lynch today and Biggs seems like the most logical target, due to the information that would yield.

You do make some valid points here. The lynch on Biggs would be more informative than Lichtmann in case of a town flip. In case of scum it's about equal.

[FM Phelps]

Burn after Cafarelli posted that investigation pairing on him? If he had any hope at all to not be lynched, I can't see why he would do that.

So what? He was changing his avatar the moment when he had given up. There was plenty of time to ignite everyone who he could have doused. But he never doused at all. Why shouldn't he? The rolecard states that he can burn until 1 hour is left at day.
He clearly didn't douse anyone or he would have burned at day. Especially that guy tried to leave with some sort of impact. Otherwise he wouldn't have posted that video and changed his avatar.

Especially that guy....

[FM Monroe]

Fair point, he was rather obnoxious. You're probably right. Still I wouldn't want to completely discount the possibility that he doused mafia.

[FM Lichtmann]

Hence why i condsider the witching to be the signal to arson.

Seeing how i have pressure on me, what do you guys want me to say? Hi im [insert role here] dont lynch me?

Even now we are already half way over witht his day and some of the people have only posted like 2 things.

[FM Chapman]

Hence why i condsider the witching to be the signal to arson.

Seeing how i have pressure on me, what do you guys want me to say? Hi im [insert role here] dont lynch me?

Even now we are already half way over witht his day and some of the people have only posted like 2 things.

For starters, explain your opinion on my cult list and also explain why you have refused to do so.
Explain your trust in Galloway.
Explain why, as a town, there is any reason to completely ignore a set of reads asked of you AFTER requesting that someone ask you to do reads.

[FM Parker]

All of this is true, but you've given no real reasoning on why he could be cult or mafia other than him being witched twice.

True. I had not yet. I just figured a pressure would be the most likely thing to do to reveal which faction he is a part of. He's posted a whopping 26 times... including his zero from today.

[FM Parker]

Scratch that. He has three posts. One of which he claims a drug dealer drugged his witches. That is unlikely given Morgan's and Colmyer's actions on Day 3. The other witch claimer would not have been drugged as well. In fact, Morgan would have been drugged twice for Biggs's theory to be accurate.

[FM Lichtmann]

For starters, explain your opinion on my cult list and also explain why you have refused to do so.
didnt we already go over this?
Explain your trust in Galloway.
if i told you it would reveal too much. all i do know is that is isnt a cult. if he is mafia well then that sucks for me. if someone else appears more tustworthy i will listen to them. as of right now he has been an active user and tries to get things done. you and many other ppl just lurk
Explain why, as a town, there is any reason to completely ignore a set of reads asked of you AFTER requesting that someone ask you to do reads.
if someone give what i think is a crap read (like you kinda did) why should i give my own?

why do you only focus on me btw? why do you not look at biggs. Yes i know im FoS right now but also why do you not ask about briggs or discuss it

[FM Ferengi]

can salvage power roles be clubbed?

Yes.

I think that was asked, and was answered. I was looking thought it and noticed that savages cap at 6 even when they die. My guess about witching is that if hes sent for kill he kills, if hes sent for recruit he recruits

Can host clarify?

If the savage godfather is witched, it redirects the night action he originally intended to perform. So, if he intended to kill, the kill will be redirected, and if he intended to recruit, the recruit will be redirected.

Do savage recruits immediately get access to savage night chat or do they have to wait until the night to read what was posted before they joined?

Savage recruits are supposed to get read-only access to the savage night chat at the beginning of the day after they are recruited. The savage recruitment PM with night chat login information will be sent out both as Night ___ Feedback and as Day ___ Feedback. The Night ___ Feedback with details of recruitment can be blocked by a drug dealer, but the Day ___ Feedback PM with cult login information cannot.

[FM Chapman]

why do you only focus on me btw? why do you not look at biggs. Yes i know im FoS right now but also why do you not ask about briggs or discuss it

Mother of god...

"What I think is a crap read" FFS JUSTIFY THAT STATEMENT. You have REPEATEDLY said that and REPEATEDLY refused to justify that statement.

So no, we haven't "been over this."

And in what universe is the quality of another player's reads IN ANY WAY relevant to your own? That is probably the poorest excuse I've ever seen not to contribute.

I'm focusing on you because there are no other real trains available. Nobody has provided any justification asto why Biggs or Monroe is scum. The train on you, on the other hand, has plenty of justification.

[FM Monroe]

-vote FM Biggs

I'm putting my vote here for pressure when he returns. Not sure if I'd fully support a lynch on him yet though.

Lichtmann, I would like to see a full analysis from you on Buchwalter and Mendez so far. Because the only details you did post on them were plain wrong.

[FM Chapman]

True. I had not yet. I just figured a pressure would be the most likely thing to do to reveal which faction he is a part of. He's posted a whopping 26 times... including his zero from today.

So you don't think he's scum, and you want to lynch him anyway because him flipping town will prove that there's a witch?

[FM Parker]

So you don't think he's scum, and you want to lynch him anyway because him flipping town will prove that there's a witch?

No. I do believe Biggs is scum and lying about being witched. I was just highlighting all possible alternatives Chapman.

[FM Lichtmann]

Mother of god...

"What I think is a crap read" FFS JUSTIFY THAT STATEMENT. You have REPEATEDLY said that and REPEATEDLY refused to justify that statement.

So no, we haven't "been over this."

And in what universe is the quality of another player's reads IN ANY WAY relevant to your own? That is probably the poorest excuse I've ever seen not to contribute.

I'm focusing on you because there are no other real trains available. Nobody has provided any justification asto why Biggs or Monroe is scum. The train on you, on the other hand, has plenty of justification.

like i said, i rely on other peoples reads to form opinions. mine were independent but if you give a read saying they are good or scum for reason x,y,z. and it seems like shit to me i require it to be justified. and yes we have been over it. for the ppast few days your entire fos has been on me.

@morone one sec let me go find their posts. but what you think aobut it is wrong?

[FM Monroe]

For one, Mendez isn't the most active player but she hasn't been a lurker up until now. Far from it.

Secondly, Buchwalter has had a hard one to get people with this mindset:

i rely on other peoples reads to form opinions.

To call me scum. And you said that he was defending me? I'm curious where you got that thought.

[FM Chapman]

No. I do believe Biggs is scum and lying about being witched. I was just highlighting all possible alternatives Chapman.

Why do you think he's scum?

[FM Chapman]

None of what I have relies on buddying, and certainly not my views of who aren't cult.

Here's the rest of my reasoning:
Cult
Earle: Talking a lot about him early in day 3, even when he's not immediately relevant. Monroe outright calls him scum, but doesn't act on it. (I view that as a scumtell)

Galloway: Calling him a good player and a good night kill target over Becket. Sets him up to be a town leader. Immediately lends his voice to calling Ryan scum after Morgan brings it up. Defensive about being called cult with Morgan.

Monroe: Downplaying Morgan's significance in the game. Morgan calls him town with a fairly bad reasoning.

Lichtmann: When asked about him, Morgan gives REALLY bad reads on him, flip flopping all over the place. Calls him scum and says he's really not sure in the same post. Lichtmann seems the most likely out of all these to be cult to me.

Buchwalter: Calls Morgan town for good logic, when there really wasn't much of it.

I couldn't find the rest of why I thought Buch was cult, so put him in the 'kinda' category. Also take Ballard off the list entirely.

This one. Right here. Lichtmann, you have been calling this post stupid all day. Explain why.

[FM Parker]

Why do you think he's [Bigg's] scum?

His lack of helpful activity for the most part. He's just not posting a lot. He's not contributing theories or thoughts at all. That combined with an unlikely witch claim makes him possible scum. The fact that a lynch would provide something helpful for town makes me feel like an acceptable risk.

[FM Black]

I'm worried about a comment someone made earlier about how the masons checked Caff. Now that the checks have been made, whose to say Caff hasn't been savaged now? Would be the perfect chance.

The game setup makes it extremely difficult to trust anybody, and honestly I don't have any FoS' that stand out more than others.

The Game is slowly turning into favor for the Savages and Mafia.

[FM Lichtmann]

For one, Mendez isn't the most active player but she hasn't been a lurker up until now. Far from it.

Secondly, Buchwalter has had a hard one to get people with this mindset:


To call me scum. And you said that he was defending me? I'm curious where you got that thought.

ok after seeing mendez latest post its the only one today. So for me it was a rather informative one. I am interested to see what she thinks about my and briggs.

if was that she wasnt here for most of the day today is what bothered me. I still find it strange she said she was gonna look into me and brigg but has yet to.

As for butch, he is a hard read not only becasue i admit i like to rely on others, but due to the fact he has been semi-helpful. he been keeping tabs on events and things of notice. I could see him savage/maf but then again he could just be another delta tring to contribute

@chap where did that post come from i didnt see it, let me look into it

[FM Monroe]

I'm worried about a comment someone made earlier about how the masons checked Caff. Now that the checks have been made, whose to say Caff hasn't been savaged now? Would be the perfect chance.

The game setup makes it extremely difficult to trust anybody, and honestly I don't have any FoS' that stand out more than others.

The Game is slowly turning into favor for the Savages and Mafia.

Or Cafarelli got bus driven or attacked and healed night 3 and didn't claim it to avoid suspicion of being a savage for the time being.

[FM Mendez]

For one, Mendez isn't the most active player but she hasn't been a lurker up until now. Far from it.

Secondly, Buchwalter has had a hard one to get people with this mindset:


To call me scum. And you said that he was defending me? I'm curious where you got that thought.

Yeah today was hard to post. I plan on getting a lot more activity in tomorrow. Got rid of the girl at my house, so I can focus on the game for a bit.

I'd hardly call it soft. And if you see no gain in claiming a role other than to avoid pressure I would say you are scum. Please explain how there is never a good use of claiming other than to avoid pressure. Maybe it isn't my real role, maybe I have already netted a gain for the town and it would help to clarify the roles list, maybe it is my real role and I want the Mafia to consider all these options to add to the confusion for them I already intend to cause before speaking.

You said you've saved two people. So the only possibility I see of you claiming is proving they are town/not mafia? You saving people doesn't mean you didn't save a savage. I consider it soft claiming until you actual say your role and what you've done.

@Licht Girl troubles. Getting into it now

[FM Lichtmann]

None of what I have relies on buddying, and certainly not my views of who aren't cult.

Here's the rest of my reasoning:
Cult
Earle: Talking a lot about him early in day 3, even when he's not immediately relevant. Monroe outright calls him scum, but doesn't act on it. (I view that as a scumtell)
hes been lurking this i agree with

Galloway: Calling him a good player and a good night kill target over Becket. Sets him up to be a town leader. Immediately lends his voice to calling Ryan scum after Morgan brings it up. Defensive about being called cult with Morgan.
gallow is probally town and as leader he doesnt want to be caust buddying with any evil roles. if you nitice he like to discredit everyone
Monroe: Downplaying Morgan's significance in the game. Morgan calls him town with a fairly bad reasoning.
i already dislike him he plays a lot like a jester but i doubt 2 jester in game

Lichtmann: When asked about him, Morgan gives REALLY bad reads on him, flip flopping all over the place. Calls him scum and says he's really not sure in the same post. Lichtmann seems the most likely out of all these to be cult to me.
im not great on giving reads if you havent noticed. i just take the post of what they say and interprtet it how i can
Buchwalter: Calls Morgan town for good logic, when there really wasn't much of it.
butch has been contibuting by keeping tabs on events and stuff. but i do find it odd hes not dead yet
I couldn't find the rest of why I thought Buch was cult, so put him in the 'kinda' category. Also take Ballard off the list entirely.
that concernrns me. you make a list and then say forget them? for me i find it odd

[FM Lichtmann]

@Licht Girl troubles. Getting into it now

we got time. i just find big gaps to be annyoing at times and sometimes scums do that as an excuse. but seeing how you are back means you were going to do it

[FM Kelso]

I'm back for a really short time, stuff to do.

[FM Monroe]

ok after seeing mendez latest post its the only one today. So for me it was a rather informative one. I am interested to see what she thinks about my and briggs.

if was that she wasnt here for most of the day today is what bothered me. I still find it strange she said she was gonna look into me and brigg but has yet to.

As for butch, he is a hard read not only becasue i admit i like to rely on others, but due to the fact he has been semi-helpful. he been keeping tabs on events and things of notice. I could see him savage/maf but then again he could just be another delta tring to contribute

@chap where did that post come from i didnt see it, let me look into it

Mendez made more than one post today. Try clicking someone's name and then click "View Forum Posts"

I was also looking for a more general opinion from your observations about Mendez, not just today. Add specifics if you feel it's important. Could you give that?

Yes indeed, Buchwalter hasn't been doing much besides tally keeping as Cohen called it. He's very neutral besides the subtle jabs he tries to make in his "notable posts" parts of his summaries.

Also I think I just found my answer to why you associated Buchwalter with me...

Buchwalter: Calls Morgan town for good logic, when there really wasn't much of it.

Since you did not even read his name right, maybe you should give commenting on Chapman's reads another go.

[FM Monroe]

Nevermind, you just did.

[FM Monroe]

Monroe: Downplaying Morgan's significance in the game. Morgan calls him town with a fairly bad reasoning.
i already dislike him he plays a lot like a jester but i doubt 2 jester in game

2 jesters? Are you really hinting at being a jester here? Why would you say such a thing if you were town, or who else do you think is a jester?