New achievements!

[TheComedian]

The best way to motivate players not to troll, is to reward them for good play.
While you can never prevent trolling 100%, you can at least try to motivate better play.

New achievements, being able to unlock unique lynch executions (default: Hanging), hats, models, unlock prefer- & blacklist slots, color names, etc is all stuff that players want to unlock.

Even unlocking the ability to make an evil laugh or fart sound, is something that motivates players to play better and get points.


Here is some inspirations for new achievements:

Towns:
— Citizen: Get attacked and survive the night you used your vest.
— Doctor: Save someone while also being saved yourself.
— Doctor: Save someone from cult conversion.
— Doctor: Save 4 times in one game.
— Escort: Win the game with a stalemate.
— Bodyguard: Save someone Night 1 ("So Predictable"-achievement)
— Detective: Track a killer that attacks you.
— Detective: Track a killer and get him lynched the next day. Do this twice in one game.
— Lookout: Track someone who died, and get the killer lynched next day, do this twice in one game.
— Investigator: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
— Sherif: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
— Jailor: Use 2 or more executes without killing a town.
— Vigilante: Use 2 or more shots without killing a town.
— Veteran: Kill 2 or more players in one night, without killing a town.
— Mason & Mason Leader: Kill 3 cults in one game.
— Marshall: *Just remove this role please! There are better suggestions!*
— Stump: *Just remove this role please!*


Mafia:
— Framer: Frame a town, and see him lynched the next day. Do this twice in a game.
— Beguiler: Avoid death by hiding behind a non-mafia, that then dies instead.
— Blackmailer: Pretend to be blackmailed by writing "I am blackmailed." when lynched, and survive the lynch vote.
— Blackmailer: See a blackmailed player getting lynched while unable to talk during trial.
—*Consort: Block the same player 5 times in a game.
— Disguiser: Disguise yourself as a revealed Mayor or Marshall and survive to the end.
— Godfather: Write a different Death Note on each 5 victims, in one game.
— Mafioso: Survive by getting healed by a doctor.
— Janitor: Sanitize a mafia.
— Kidnapper: Execute a revealed Mayor or Marshall.
— Kidnapper: Jail a teammate Mafia and save him from an attack.
— Consigliere: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
— Agent: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.


Neutrals:
— Jester: Annoy players 6 times in one game, and still get lynched.
— Jester: Get lynched the last day.
— Jester: Kill another Jester.
— Witch Doctor: Save a cultist from death.
— Witch Doctor: Convert two players to cult, in one game, by saving them from death.
— Amnesiac: Remember you where Jester, and win by getting lynched.
— Amnesiac: Win without using your ability.
— Amnesiac: Convert to a team that has otherwise lost, and win the game (e.g. convert to cult or mafia, when all other cults or mafia's are dead).
— Mass Murderer: Kill 3 players in one night.
— Mass Murderer: Kill 4 players in one night.
— Serial Killer: Kill 5 players, one each night without interruption.
— Serial Killer: Win without killing anyone.
— Witch: Control a Doctor, Witch Doctor or Bodyguard to save you from an attack.
— Witch: Control a Vigilante to shoot himself.
— Witch: Control a town with no visit ability to visit a Veteran on alert.
— Survivor: Win without using any vests.
— Survivor: Get attacked and survive 3 times in one game.
— Neutral Killer: Survive a trial lynch 3 times in one game.
— Neutral Evil: Watch town lynch 3 towns in a row after last mafia died.

General:
— Win streaks achievements.



And finally...
Please add an -achievement or -a to show a popup window with scroll to see all achievements available + which you already earned.
Then we don't have to visit wiki.sc2mafia.com.


I hope Dark.Revenant will consider adding more achievements to the game!

Thanks for reading!

[TheComedian]

...

Anyone know if there is plans to expand on the achievements in mafia?

No.

[PhantomZeRo]

I support trolling. Fuck achievements I just want to have fun.

[maccabbe]

Personally I think the only achievements that should exist are "win X role Y number of times". Any other achievement can encourage bad play, for instance in your list.

Here is some inspirations for new achievements:

Towns:
— Citizen: Get attacked and survive the night you used your vest.
citizens will ask to be shot by vig
— Doctor: Save someone while also being saved yourself.
doctors will want to be attacked
— Doctor: Save someone from cult conversion.
doctors will want to target people who are likely for cult conversion (which are unlikely to be attacked)
— Doctor: Save 4 times in one game.
doctor will try to get vig to shot people or players to target vet just to save them
— Escort: Win the game with a stalemate.
escorts will drag out games
— Bodyguard: Save someone Night 1 ("So Predictable"-achievement)
not skill based
— Detective: Track a killer that attacks you.
detective will want to be attacked by killer, even if it kills them
— Detective: Track a killer and get him lynched the next day. Do this twice in one game.
detective will track players already known to be evil
— Lookout: Track someone who died, and get the killer lynched next day, do this twice in one game.
lookout will try to get vig and jailor lynched
— Investigator: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
investigator will investigate players already known to be evil
— Sherif: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
sheriffs will investigate players already known to be evil
— Jailor: Use 2 or more executes without killing a town.
jailors will be encouraged to execute
— Vigilante: Use 2 or more shots without killing a town.
vigs will ask for doctors to heal players so nobody dies
— Veteran: Kill 2 or more players in one night, without killing a town.
veterans will be encouraged to go on alert earlier, when both mafia and town are more likely to visit
— Mason & Mason Leader: Kill 3 cults in one game.
this is already an achievement
— Marshall: *Just remove this role please! There are better suggestions!*
— Stump: *Just remove this role please!*


Mafia:
— Framer: Frame a town, and see him lynched the next day. Do this twice in a game.
framer will frame witch and get her lynched
— Beguiler: Avoid death by hiding behind a non-mafia, that then dies instead.
beguiler will announce he is mafia and get vig to shot him then get lynched next day
— Blackmailer: Pretend to be blackmailed by writing "I am blackmailed." when lynched, and survive the lynch vote.
blackmailer will want to be put on stand
— Blackmailer: See a blackmailed player getting lynched while unable to talk during trial.
blackmailer will put all his effort into getting his target lynched and not care if he himself gets lynched the next day
—*Consort: Block the same player 5 times in a game.
consort will continue blocking the same player, even if they are not a threat
— Disguiser: Disguise yourself as a revealed Mayor or Marshall and survive to the end.
encourages disguiser to disguise as mayor or marshall instead of threatening roles
— Godfather: Write a different Death Note on each 5 victims, in one game.
nothing to do with how well you are doing
— Mafioso: Survive by getting healed by a doctor.
mafioso will want to be attacked
— Janitor: Sanitize a mafia.
janitor will target mafia instead of actually doing his job
— Kidnapper: Execute a revealed Mayor or Marshall.
kidnapper will jail and execute revealed over better targets
— Kidnapper: Jail a teammate Mafia and save him from an attack.
really? kidnapper encouraged to jail mafia...
— Consigliere: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
consig encouraged to be put on stand
— Agent: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
agent encourage to be put on stand

Neutrals:
— Jester: Annoy players 6 times in one game, and still get lynched.
jester encouraged to annoy even if possibly detrimental
— Jester: Get lynched the last day.
jester won't want to get lynched until end of game
— Jester: Kill another Jester.
jester's kill is chance not skill. all this encourages is getting other jester to vote you and multiple jesters in one setup
— Witch Doctor: Save a cultist from death.
witch doctor will heal cultists instead of trying to convert
— Witch Doctor: Convert two players to cult, in one game, by saving them from death.

— Amnesiac: Remember you where Jester, and win by getting lynched.
amnesiac will not remember a role certain to win
— Amnesiac: Win without using your ability.
amnesiac encouraged to play as vestless survivor
— Amnesiac: Convert to a team that has otherwise lost, and win the game (e.g. convert to cult or mafia, when all other cults or mafia's are dead).
amnesiac encouraged to remember a losing team
— Mass Murderer: Kill 3 players in one night.
— Mass Murderer: Kill 4 players in one night.
— Serial Killer: Kill 5 players, one each night without interruption.
serial killer will continue killing even if he knows he is being watched by detective/agent
— Serial Killer: Win without killing anyone.
serial killer will not kill
— Witch: Control a Doctor, Witch Doctor or Bodyguard to save you from an attack.
witch will only control doctors, witch doctor, or bg
— Witch: Control a Vigilante to shoot himself.
witch will only make targets to target self
— Witch: Control a town with no visit ability to visit a Veteran on alert.
witch will try to get this even if it would be better to control a doc to save herself
— Survivor: Win without using any vests.
survivors will not use vests
— Survivor: Get attacked and survive 3 times in one game.
survivors will try to get attacked and healed if they have no vests
— Neutral Killer: Survive a trial lynch 3 times in one game.
neutral killer encouraged to get on stand
— Neutral Evil: Watch town lynch 3 towns in a row after last mafia died.
cultists will stop converting if there are 2 cults and 3 town left

General:
— Win streaks achievements.



And finally...
Please add an -achievement or -a to show a popup window with scroll to see all achievements available + which you already earned.
Then we don't have to visit wiki.sc2mafia.com.


I hope Dark.Revenant will consider adding more achievements to the game!

Thanks for reading!

[cxx]

maccabbe, your arguments are invalid. Compare them to:

Obviously Evil
- Disguisers will target confirmed masons instead of choosing valuable targets

Jailbreak
- SKs will try to get jailed

Hoist by His Own Molotov
- Arsonists won't undouse themselves but suicide through ignition

State Religion
- Cultists will seek to recruit a Mayor, who, once culted, can easily be spotted

Corleone
- Consigliere will get his GF lynched at day

Epic Fail
- You might give up a sure win in order to get this achievement

A for Effort
- A killing role will not actually kill

Forever alone
- A Witch will seek to kill every neutral killer and mafia instead of winning with them

Hung Jury
- By trying to achieve this, you likely get lynched thus it's encouraging suicidal actions

Handi-Capable
- Amnesiac encoured to play as vestless Survivor

Marathon
- Players will seek to prolong the game

Suicide Hotline
- Players are encouraged to create setups that will have a lot of leavers

Hammer and Sickle
- Citizens will seek 1on1 situations with the mafia

Last of Kin
- Players are couraged to sacrifice their team mates

Incognito
- Mayor is forced to play as an incredible, vestless Survivor

Yo Dawg
- Amnesiacs are encouraged to waste one night or to not remember a role because they are waiting for a second Amnesiac to get killed


....seriously, how can you not see this? All of your critique is illegitimate.

[Deantwo]

the Wiki have a full list of achievements

SC2Mafia Wiki: Achievements

adding achievements for things that the player should already be doing is kinda stupid...
for example the saying the Jailor shouldn't execute Town...

the achievements in SC2Mafia are to be fun and rare... not just "yay i did my job"

[TheComedian]

the Wiki have a full list of achievements

SC2Mafia Wiki: Achievements

adding achievements for things that the player should already be doing is kinda stupid...
for example the saying the Jailor shouldn't execute Town...

the achievements in SC2Mafia are to be fun and rare... not just "yay i did my job"

This forum makes me sad.

First someone tries to shoot it down by saying some achievements are counter productive.

That gets answered by cxx, by looking at the current achievements that does just that.

Then someone comes along and tries the opposite; to shoot it down because it IS productive.

Dude.............



Most games got achievements for things you "should already be doing". It's rewards for good play (and in some cases fun ones for wierd situations or extra ordinarily good play).


Sometimes this forum feels more like a company, with coworkers trying to argue their way out of having to do actual work.
Instead of being passionate about a common interest, and trying to be productive about ways to keep improving it.

Tbh.

[Cryptonic]

Achievements supposed to be simple things that happen by dumb luck in a game.
Something like:
007 - As Spy, get roleblocked.

[maccabbe]

Thanks cxx for pointing out how current achievements are counterproductive, don't really see how that makes my argument invalid when I believe those should never have been implemented in the first place.

Deantwo and TheComedian the problem with the current "fun" and good play achievements is that they negatively influence the meta. For instance due to the towering inferno achievement arsonists when from being meh to not killing players even when they had 3 doused unless they had the achievement.

Cryptonic, unlike most mafia games sc2mafia is specifically designed to avoid luck, that's why the jester suicide is such a problem.

[TheComedian]

Thanks cxx for pointing out how current achievements are counterproductive, don't really see how that makes my argument invalid when I believe those should never have been implemented in the first place.

Deantwo and TheComedian the problem with the current "fun" and good play achievements is that they negatively influence the meta. For instance due to the towering inferno achievement arsonists when from being meh to not killing players even when they had 3 doused unless they had the achievement.

Cryptonic, unlike most mafia games sc2mafia is specifically designed to avoid luck, that's why the jester suicide is such a problem.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...eels-the-grief!

But as you know, every valid argument on this forum will get shut down anyway.
And when something is finally passed, we get Stump and Marshall...

[Mugy]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...eels-the-grief!

But as you know, every valid argument on this forum will get shut down anyway.
And when something is finally passed, we get Stump and Marshall...

What you consider valid may not be considered valid for others. How do you think we feel when bad roles were voted in by the mainstream players?
I.e. crier and marshall.

[TheComedian]

What you consider valid may not be considered valid for others. How do you think we feel when bad roles were voted in by the mainstream players?
I.e. crier and marshall.

Crier is a good role in my opinion, and I have used it quite effectively to win games.
Marshall is a bad role, that makes otherwise interesting games cut short.
Stump is bad. It's an internal joke that remained just that + causing confusion for newer players.

I suggest whoever is in charge of this should listen to some of the otherwise good suggestions around here (from other posters), and be ballsy enough to test them out internally, instead of being so afraid of changes.

Every argument on this forum gets shot down, not just the bad ones (something I noticed since I joined). It's almost a hobby around here, to counter-claim suggestions.

In the end, what happens is nothing gets picked — and the developers as they realize they need to come up with something new to keep the game fresh, they panic and let the community decide by vote, without testing.

I wish that for the next role or feature implementation, they would step back and say "You know what, this might actually work or make the game more fun".
I'm sure the is a lot of people passionate about this game, that would be more than happy to work on it in their spare time, even if the right thing to do, is not the easiest thing to do.

Mugy7 you are right that nobody knows, but you can't start blaming the community for their choice, when it was you guys who asked them to choose. If you don't like their choice, then don't ask for it. But at least they did do "something" that helped keep the game fresh.

But again, that's just my opinion ;)

(Wow this was written on my iPhone )

[Mugy]

Crier is a good role in my opinion, and I have used it quite effectively to win games.
Marshall is a bad role, that makes otherwise interesting games cut short.
Stump is bad. It's an internal joke that remained such + causing confusion for newer players.

I suggest whoever is in charge of this should listen to some of the otherwise good suggestions around here, and be ballsy enough to test them out internally, instead of being so afraid of changes.

Every argument on this forum gets shot down, not just the bad ones (something I noticed since I joined). It's almost a hobby around here, to counter-claim suggestions.

In the end, what happens is nothing gets picked, and the developers as they realize they need to come up with something, they panic and just let the community decide by vote, without testing.

I wish that for the next role or feature implementation, they would step back and say "You know what, this might actually work or make the game more fun".
I'm sure the is a lot of people passionate about this game, that would be more than happy to work on it in their spare time, even if the right thing to do, is not the easiest thing to do.

Mugy7 you are right that nobody knows, but you can't start blaming the community for their choice, when it was you guys who asked them to choose. If you don't like their choice, then don't ask for it. But at least they did do "something" that helped keep the game fresh.

But again, that's just my opinion ;)

(Wow this was written on my iPhone )

The roles were put to a poll not because we didn't know which role to choose, but because the roles were commissioned by donations. How we wish we could choose the roles in hindsight

[kyle1234513]

What you consider valid may not be considered valid for others. How do you think we feel when bad roles were voted in by the mainstream players?
I.e. crier and marshall.

as I recall the roles were voted on in R&D, meaning only forum auth and donators got to vote on them.
and several posts in the past have stated that many forum auth no longer play mafia because they feel it isn't right for them anymore, so as a result they mostly play forum mafia instead.
so how could it be that all the "mainstream" players were allowed to vote on it when I wasn't even included, and I play a few games daily. how many people did vote on the new roles? and if so, of the choices how close were crier and marshall to the other choices?

[Mugy]

as I recall the roles were voted on in R&D, meaning only forum auth and donators got to vote on them.
and several posts in the past have stated that many forum auth no longer play mafia because they feel it isn't right for them anymore, so as a result they mostly play forum mafia instead.
so how could it be that all the "mainstream" players were allowed to vote on it when I wasn't even included, and I play a few games daily. how many people did vote on the new roles? and if so, of the choices how close were crier and marshall to the other choices?

Yes, most people who contributed to discussion in the thread were people who frequently play FM's and no longer play SC2mafia. However there were 60 participants in the poll. Most of which definitely still play SC2mafia because there simply aren't that many that have abandoned sc2mafia for FM.
I never said everyone could vote, I just said that mainstream players voted.
You couldn't vote simply because you're not a donor nor a VIP member(need 500 posts or something like that I believe). Donor's aren't some sort of private group of friends we bring in to vote, they're normal players who decided to donate a few dollars...

Crier and marshall were most certainly not the only roles that were exciting. I supported architect and others liked the enchantress.

[Damus_Graves]

For someone who claims to be the best mafia player and who has shown a predilection to have an inflated opinion of himself you do not know how the coding of Mafia works nor the difficulty in making sure a role suggestion doesn't break the game. You remind me of Xen in many ways. The amount of time you have spent complaining here could have been better spent doing something else. It is absolutely ridiculous that because of your role suggestion, which was copied from someone else's even with credit given, was ignored and thus you have deemed that all suggestions and ideas are shot down before discussion can occur.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...eels-the-grief!

But as you know, every valid argument on this forum will get shut down anyway.
And when something is finally passed, we get Stump and Marshall...

Crier is a good role in my opinion, and I have used it quite effectively to win games.
Marshall is a bad role, that makes otherwise interesting games cut short.
Stump is bad. It's an internal joke that remained such + causing confusion for newer players.

I suggest whoever is in charge of this should listen to some of the otherwise good suggestions around here, and be ballsy enough to test them out internally, instead of being so afraid of changes.

Every argument on this forum gets shot down, not just the bad ones (something I noticed since I joined). It's almost a hobby around here, to counter-claim suggestions.

In the end, what happens is nothing gets picked, and the developers as they realize they need to come up with something, they panic and just let the community decide by vote, without testing.

I wish that for the next role or feature implementation, they would step back and say "You know what, this might actually work or make the game more fun".
I'm sure the is a lot of people passionate about this game, that would be more than happy to work on it in their spare time, even if the right thing to do, is not the easiest thing to do.

Mugy7 you are right that nobody knows, but you can't start blaming the community for their choice, when it was you guys who asked them to choose. If you don't like their choice, then don't ask for it. But at least they did do "something" that helped keep the game fresh.

But again, that's just my opinion ;)

(Wow this was written on my iPhone )

as I recall the roles were voted on in R&D, meaning only forum auth and donators got to vote on them.
and several posts in the past have stated that many forum auth no longer play mafia because they feel it isn't right for them anymore, so as a result they mostly play forum mafia instead.
so how could it be that all the "mainstream" players were allowed to vote on it when I wasn't even included, and I play a few games daily. how many people did vote on the new roles? and if so, of the choices how close were crier and marshall to the other choices?

Off topic. If you wanna complain about the new roles or you want to complain about the voters please go to a different thread.

@Achievements OP:

Towns:
— Citizen: Get attacked and survive the night you used your vest.
It's not bad however I find that the achievements Hammer and Sickle is more than enough for the citizen role.
— Doctor: Save someone while also being saved yourself.
I agree with this one
— Doctor: Save someone from cult conversion.
Disagree. {Undisclosed Reasons}
— Doctor: Save 4 times in one game.
I believe there is already an achievement for this. If there is not this would be alright if it had some other restraint such as "back to back" which would be achievement worthy.
— Escort: Win the game with a stalemate.
No.
— Bodyguard: Save someone Night 1 ("So Predictable"-achievement)
I can agree here.
— Detective: Track a killer that attacks you.
Sure
— Detective: Track a killer and get him lynched the next day. Do this twice in one game.
Seems a little lackluster.
— Lookout: Track someone who died, and get the killer lynched next day, do this twice in one game.
This one is a bit better than the previous one.
— Investigator: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
Meh. Would be better to include a day time limit on it.
— Sheriff: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
Same as above
— Jailor: Use 2 or more executes without killing a town.
I'd rather it be all executions and only hitting Evil roles.
— Vigilante: Use 2 or more shots without killing a town.
Same as Above
— Veteran: Kill 2 or more players in one night, without killing a town.
See above
— Mason & Mason Leader: Kill 3 cults in one game.
The Inquisition pretty much covers this.
— Marshall: *Just remove this role please! There are better suggestions!*
We don't need to hear another complaint thread about these roles.
— Stump: *Just remove this role please!*
We don't need to hear another complaint thread about these roles.

Mafia: No Comment = Ok with it.
— Framer: Frame a town, and see him lynched the next day. Do this twice in a game.
— Beguiler: Avoid death by hiding behind a non-mafia, that then dies instead.
— Blackmailer: Pretend to be blackmailed by writing "I am blackmailed." when lynched, and survive the lynch vote.
— Blackmailer: See a blackmailed player getting lynched while unable to talk during trial.
—*Consort: Block the same player 5 times in a game.
— Disguiser: Disguise yourself as a revealed Mayor or Marshall and survive to the end.
— Godfather: Write a different Death Note on each 5 victims, in one game.
Way too easy imo.
— Mafioso: Survive by getting healed by a doctor.
— Janitor: Sanitize a mafia.
— Kidnapper: Execute a revealed Mayor or Marshall.
— Kidnapper: Jail a teammate Mafia and save him from an attack.
— Consigliere: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
Should be a round the board achievement {One time earn for Mafia}
— Agent: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
Should be a round the board achievement {One time earn for Mafia}

Neutrals: No Comment = Ok with it.
— Jester: Annoy players 6 times in one game, and still get lynched.
— Jester: Get lynched the last day.
— Jester: Kill another Jester.
— Witch Doctor: Save a cultist from death.
— Witch Doctor: Convert two players to cult, in one game, by saving them from death.
— Amnesiac: Remember you where Jester, and win by getting lynched.
— Amnesiac: Win without using your ability.
Easy enough to not warrant an achievement.
— Amnesiac: Convert to a team that has otherwise lost, and win the game (e.g. convert to cult or mafia, when all other cults or mafia's are dead).
— Mass Murderer: Kill 3 players in one night.
The one below this is better
— Mass Murderer: Kill 4 players in one night.
— Serial Killer: Kill 5 players, one each night without interruption.
— Serial Killer: Win without killing anyone.
— Witch: Control a Doctor, Witch Doctor or Bodyguard to save you from an attack.
— Witch: Control a Vigilante to shoot himself.
— Witch: Control a town with no visit ability to visit a Veteran on alert.
— Survivor: Win without using any vests.
— Survivor: Get attacked and survive 3 times in one game.
— Neutral Killer: Survive a trial lynch 3 times in one game.
— Neutral Evil: Watch town lynch 3 towns in a row after last mafia died.

General:
— Win streaks achievements.
No

[cxx]

Seriously, achievements are there to be catchy in the first place. Some are there to be rare, some are there to be absurd.
It has nothing to do with being productive or not.

[Espozito]

Imba achievement for BG+witch "Get off me!":
As Bodyguard die in duel protecting yourself.

Possible if witch makes self-tragets and as hard to get as the achievement where arso burns himself.

[kyle1234513]

I would like to see an achievement - Unsure Town, everyone alive abstains on trial, must be at least 8 abstains. no guilty or inno votes.

[Mateo]

i agree there need to be new achievements, but unlike comedians suggestions, they need to b good. like cryptonic's 007 suggestion.

[TheComedian]

Me (bodyguard) and another Bodyguard randomly protected each other, and we both got attacked at the same time and killed a GF and SK