S-FM: Paranoia

[RLVG]

S-FM Paranoia

Setup :

Town 1 :
- Leader (Doctor)
- Citizen
- Citizen

Town 2 :
- Leader (Vigilante)
- Citizen
- Citizen

Town 3 :
- Leader (Escort)
- Citizen
- Citizen

The Insane :
- Hidden Evil Neutral



Roles :

Spoiler : Town Roles :

Citizen :
- Absolutely nothing but the ability to talk and vote.

Doctor :
- Target one each night to heal them.
- Removes a charge done by Electromaniac. (May still be attacked by Charge)

Vigilante :
- Target one each night to attack them.

Escort :
- Target one each night to roleblock them.

Spoiler : Neutral Evil :

Hidden Killing Neutral :

Electromaniac :
- Target one each night to charge them, target is not notified.
- May instead do a different night action to kill a single target who's previously charged.
- If one charged meets another charged, both will get attacked.

Joker :
- Pick a target to announce a bounty on him.
- If the target is not lynched or killed within 2 days, the Joker may kill 2 targets.
- A new target may be chosen once the bounty is lifted.

Evil Smith :
- Target one each night, giving them a Gun.
- The target must use the received gun otherwise they'll be cursed to suicide.

Non-Killing Neutral :

Witch :
- Target one each night to force them into visiting another.
- Target is notified of witching, cannot target one that has made no night action.

Abductor:
- During the day, can choose a player to abduct.
- Abductor and his target gain an anonymous night chat that night.
- Target is perfectly roleblocked and night immune.
- Target can't participate in chat the following day. Votes required to lynch are reduced as if one player went missing from the chat.

Follower:
- Chosen by the Hidden Neutral Killer during day 1.
- Has night chat with neutral killer starting from night 1.
- Can choose a neutral killing role when master dies.

Mechanics :

All town win togheter.

There will be a chosen leader for each town faction. If leader dies, a new one won't be made.
The leader will be promoted to a random role out of the three available.
First day, post in BOLD RED to Prefer or Unprefer leadership.

Everyone will receive a PM with a hint of what Faction they are not part of.
If all members but one has died in a town faction, it will be converted to a Non-Killing Neutral.

A maximun of 3 Evil Neutral will exist in total.
During day 1, the evil neutral may choose another player to become his follower the next night. The follower is informed of his new role on night 1 and joins the evil neutral in night chat.

The game starts on Day 1 with No Lynch.
There's no vote hammers, instead the one with majority of votes will be lynched.
There's no Last Wills.

If a Town has become converted to Neutral, they won't know the identity of other neutral.
All neutral win togheter, town wins by eleminating all the neutral.



Order of Operations :

- Abductor picks his target,
- Witch targets,
- Direct attacks occur,
- Electromaniac charges,
- Doctor heals,
- Smith gives a gun,
- Joker places bounty.



Rules :

- Communication outside the game thread and provided night chats are not allowed.
- Post at least three times to not be considered replaced or modkilled.
- Do not edit or delete posts.
- Ask questions in green.
- Vote with red text, either by [Vote] or [Color].
- Do not quote private messages made by me.

[TheDarkestLight]

I'm thinking I like it, yet whats to stop the Town from going.

"Oh herp derp I'm part of the Town I got two others who can confirm me!"

"Really? I do too!"

"Also me!"

"Hey, thats all three Towns, lets go lynch the one guy who doesn't have anyone confirm him!"

Also, if they know who is part of which Town, then when all but one of them are dead they simply lynch the last guy.

Perhaps it can be fixed by making night meetings anonymous, and not allowing anyone to use their own names to specifically state who they are. Yet possibly to WIFOM like if the Skyper has an ally the ally can claim to target himself trying to act like someone else.

Otherwise the Town could just figure out what is what D1, wait until some time has passed to get passed your little rule, and thats GG.

[RLVG]

Perhaps it can be fixed by making night meetings anonymous, and not allowing anyone to use their own names to specifically state who they are. Yet possibly to WIFOM like if the Skyper has an ally the ally can claim to target himself trying to act like someone else.

That was my original plan but I derped and forgot to write that up. Fixed. (and thanks)

The following text was added :
In night chat, each name is anonymous and you're not allowed to name yourself.


The point is that everyone should get a read on eachothers, but not in an easy way. Of course, limited to just three per faction. They should feel vulnerable with the danger of a dying faction.

Edit : Night chat removed, with exception of Skyper.

[Titus]

With you're not allowed to name yourself, is that equivalent to not saying "I'm Titus." or is that equivalent to "You can call me John Doe in this chat." I'd imagine having some sort of made up name would facilitate night discussions.

[RLVG]

With you're not allowed to name yourself, is that equivalent to not saying "I'm Titus." or is that equivalent to "You can call me John Doe in this chat." I'd imagine having some sort of made up name would facilitate night discussions.

Perhaps I should give everyone a custom name they can use.
I'll just ban COM names overall (connected to the night), lol.
Quicktopic will be used.

Frank, Jackson, Waldo,
Maria, Gunnar, Odin,
Adam, Justin, Peter,
Werner, Bill, Richard,
Jensen, Donald, Emil,
Xiao, Yenn, Zalgo.

Edit : Night chat removed, with exception of Skyper.

[Cryptonic]

During a lynch, what happens in the event of a tie?

[RLVG]

During a lynch, what happens in the event of a tie?

Only one will be lynched. Random generation will happen to determine between all of those who ties.

[Cryptonic]

ok. I like the setup, but I think the only thing that can screw up the game is the nightchat. All they have to do it say a weird phrase then say it again during the day and the other 2 towns will notice. You could make it so they don't have a nightchat, but still broken up into groups so the third member can turn into a Neutral if alone.

[Cryptonic]

Can a Leader be a Citizen, or does it have to be a PR?

[RLVG]

You could make it so they don't have a nightchat, but still broken up into groups so the third member can turn into a Neutral if alone.

Alright, I'll remove the nightchat completely in reflection to this.

Can a Leader be a Citizen, or does it have to be a PR?

The Leader will be a Power Role, while the two others are a citizen.

Edit : Added the roles which a Leader will become.

[Cryptonic]

The Leader will be a Power Role, while the two others are a citizen.

sounds good

[BorkBot]

Do the town groups come into play for anything other than generation of additional evils?

There will be a chosen leader for each town faction. If leader dies, a new one won't be made.
The leader will be promoted to a random role out of the three available.

How is a group leader chosen without night chat, since players don't know who's in their group?

I do not like this mechanic:

If the Neutral Evil dies too quick, a random town will become Evil.
A converted town will keep their town faction chat.

Someone might make an effort to hunt down the scum and if they're successful, they might randomly become the scum. There's nothing that can be done to dodge the dice, so why would they bother to scumhunt early? And what exactly is too quick? And weren't the faction chats removed?

Would be better to create a more solid, dependable mechanic that ensures the game isn't over too quickly. Maybe something the Evil Neutral himself has some influence in.

[RLVG]

Do the town groups come into play for anything other than generation of additional evils?

After a discussion, the feature of town groups were that they had a nightchat but this was removed.


Workaround, to make the Town Group come more into play:
A message at start of the day will be given to mention that a new evil has been added.

I'll add some interesting play by giving each town a hint of what Town Group they are not part off, like "You're not part of Group A." - since there's three groups, it gives the town encouragement to pay attention. Of course, lies will be made.
1. Kills, 2. Group statements, 3. Additional Evil.

How is a group leader chosen without night chat, since players don't know who's in their group?

It will start out with 3 citizen for each group, game starting at day.
At night, I'll give a message to few selected that they have been promoted to a leader.

Leaders are based on -Prefer and -Unprefer during the first day, random generator with 2X for -Prefer and 1X for -Unprefer.
That would mean there's still a chance for one with Unprefer to become leader, but it's less likely to occur.

Someone might make an effort to hunt down the scum and if they're successful, they might randomly become the scum. There's nothing that can be done to dodge the dice, so why would they bother to scumhunt early? And what exactly is too quick? And weren't the faction chats removed?

I forgot to edit out some text, however :

Town doesn't have a night chat anymore.
Too Quick is either that scum is killed N1 or a forced modkill at N2 or before. (I did not think of it too well at all)

Perhaps the better method is to give the Scum an option Night 1 / 2 for a random citizen to become a student of his?



I'll start editing the main post once I know if these are suitable mechanics or if there should be changes.

[BorkBot]

Sorry for the late response. Approvals have been slow during the FM. I've looked over your setup again and read the changes you suggested. And I like what you're trying to do for the most part, but have some suggestions of my own which I think would improve it (mostly to make it less random and more about the choices players make to decide the flow of the game).

Prefer/Unprefer Leader should be publically posted in bold and red, similar to votes.

Start day 1 with a no lynch.

Let evils win if evil wins. Not just survivors.

I'd change the label of benign neutral to non-killing neutral because win conditions are the same for all of them and benign suggests that they can win with town, which they can't here.

Then change the Hidden Evil Neutral on the list to Hidden Killing Neutral because it's blatantly obvious that the original has to be one.

Instead of doing it randomly I think it would be fun to let the hidden killer choose a follower during day 1 (PM to you), of which the target player is informed at the end of the day and granted a night chat at the start of night 1. Naturally, he would become ineligible in the draw for a town leader position on night 1. This follower should count towards the maximum evil neutral count (which has max 3) and once his master dies he can become an evil killing role of his own choosing (not random or based on his master's role).

This adds an interesting advantage to the evil neutral in that he can use the hint he receives from his follower (ex. you are not in group A) in order to hunt down others who are in the same group as the follower. They can also discuss strategies about what role to pick in case the master dies.

Spoiler : Follower :

Follower:
- Chosen by the Hidden Neutral Killer during day 1.
- Has night chat with neutral killer starting from night 1.
- Can choose a neutral killing role when master dies.

For the sake of balance, converts as a result of 1 single remaining townie in a group should always become a non-killing evil neutral. As the town already has 2 killers to contend with including the follower.

Skyper is too powerful as a non-killing neutral in such a small game. Change it to something like this:

Spoiler : Abductor :

Abductor:
- During the day, can choose a player to abduct.
- Abductor and his target gain an anonymous night chat that night.
- Target is perfectly roleblocked and night immune.
- Target can't participate in chat the following day. Votes required to lynch are reduced as if one player went missing from the chat.

The uses for this role in this setup should be clear ;)

Also, I would change the witch a bit so she can't control players who consciously skip their action. Vigilante control would be too much of a game changer in this small setup otherwise, and it poses an interesting dilemma for the leaders.

[RLVG]

I've made various changes of what were suggested.

There's a few questions :
- Should I keep to the idea with a hint what faction they are not part of? "The Vigilante are not of Faction C, The Citizen are not of Faction B"
- Would it be a better idea if Witch can't control someone who has not made a night action?
- Should I add more Non-Killing Neutrals, or is the amount of roles fine?
- To clarify, Follower can only target a Citizen or can a Leader become one too?

[BorkBot]

- Should I keep to the idea with a hint what faction they are not part of? "The Vigilante are not of Faction C, The Citizen are not of Faction B"

I think it's a nice idea, but it's better for the WIFOM if you give each town player a hint along with their rolecard instead of posting it publically.

- Would it be a better idea if Witch can't control someone who has not made a night action?

Yes, I think so.

- Should I add more Non-Killing Neutrals, or is the amount of roles fine?

You could maybe add one more if you like, if you make sure it's a fairly simple one (the setup is just about at the top of complexity as far as S-FMs go)

- To clarify, Follower can only target a Citizen or can a Leader become one too?

Follower can't target anyone (that's the thing I found overpowered about the Skyper, because it basically turned 2 players evil at once).

The starting Neutral Killer chooses his follower during day 1 like a jailor would submit his jail target, this is an extra perk for the original hidden killer, no mater which role he is.

During that same day, the citizens post their -prefer / -unprefer leader votes. When the night starts, the player the Neutral Killer chose as his follower will join him, and that player simply doesn't take part in the random roll to become a leader of his group. They would never become a leader to begin with.

Does that make sense?

Also, additional followers shouldn't be generated by town groups losing members.

[RLVG]

Added so Witch can't target one who has not made a night action.
Added the text "Everyone will receive a PM with a hint of what Faction they are not part of."

Only one Follower exist, which makes two roles that the town may deduce quick what is.



I think we're fine with what we have now.

[BorkBot]

Would add to mechanics:

During day 1, the evil neutral may choose another player to become his follower. The follower is informed of his new role on night 1 and joins the evil neutral in night chat.

Otherwise that information is missing from the original post and some might not see it when reading the setup.

Only one Follower exist, which makes two roles that the town may deduce quick what is.

I wouldn't be so sure, because the follower can choose what role to become when the neutral killer dies. Could lead to some surprises.

Also, setup needs rules of conduct. No outside communication, no editing posts, and so on and so forth.

[RLVG]

Also, setup needs rules of conduct. No outside communication, no editing posts, and so on and so forth.

How's this?

- Communication outside the game thread and provided night chats are not allowed.
- Post at least three times to not be considered replaced or modkilled.
- Do not edit or delete posts.
- Ask questions in green.
- Vote with red text, either by [Vote] or [Color].
- Do not quote private messages made by me.

[BorkBot]

Looks good!

Approved

Good luck with the setup. I'm interested to see how it goes.