Thoughts on Investigator

[Voss]

I read somewhere else in one of the previous mafia threads, that Investigator changed the game in a way that DR didn't intend. I'm curious to the how and the why, and was wondering if anyone could clear that up?

[Slaol]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...96-Role-Mailer

This is where you read that. Auckmid.

I can not clear up what that means directly, but; as far as 'Thoughts on Investigator' goes, anyone that knows anything about the game knows Investigator is a game breaking awful role that forces a death of intelligent role claiming and defensive scum strategy. As well as getting too much information when dealing with Town. And if 'Detect Exact Role' is on... good god.
Single worst role in the game, for the game.

[Voss]

but its good for consigliere, right?

[Slaol]

but its good for consigliere, right?

Yea. That version of information is proper for the Mafia.

[BorkBot]

I actually think sheriffs are a lot more irritating in the deception & scum hunting ruination department than investigators.

Their results are too black and white. At least investigator leaves some wiggle room.

[Slaol]

I actually think sheriffs are a lot more irritating in the deception & scum hunting ruination department than investigators.

Their results are too black and white. At least investigator leaves some wiggle room.

To me the fact that Investigator naturally doesn't give a crud about 'immunity to detection', and that Sheriff at least have to ride against Executioners and Jesters. Investigators get information, accuse, and reactions make it fact.
Godfather- dead (immune or not), Mason Leader and Citizen are never in game, and Mayor can't be claimed
Framer- dead (immune or not), Citizen is never in game, and 'I was Framed' might as well not be allowed to be said.
Mafioso- dead, no Vigilante kills
Janitor- dead, no Coroners in game
Blackmailer- dead, unless you never blackmail someone
Disguiser- likely dead, better claim Detective effectively the whole game
Consigliere- maybe lives
Consort- maybe lives

Arsonist- dead, no Bussing feedback
Mass Murderer- dead, if they didn't die to veteran it isnt Veteran
Serial Killer- 50/50
Witch- dead, cause Survivor is his claim.
Cultist- dead, there are never Masons.

In theory Investigator leaves wiggle room, but I really don't see any in the common game. But yes, Sheriff is understandably just as painful.

[ika]

I actually think sheriffs are a lot more irritating in the deception & scum hunting ruination department than investigators.

Their results are too black and white. At least investigator leaves some wiggle room.

but how many ppl pay attention to the lws these days

[BorkBot]

My games have mason leaders, masons, jesters, coroners, amnesiacs, vigilantes, jailors and sometimes citizens.

Executioners can also claim detective, lookout or investigator. Those are actually the roles a good executioner will try to claim, because sheriff is too obvious. Their "information" doesn't have to be true to try and lynch someone.

My first game as a mass murderer, I won by claiming veteran and got the real veteran lynched instead of me.

An investigator almost always relies on information from other sources to condemn anyone. The only roles that do truly get messed up by an investigator are arsonist, blackmailer and disguiser. But then, all of them are equally screwed if a sheriff checks them night 1. And so are all other mafia roles save for godfather/framer, as well as all killing neutrals.

[Slaol]

But then, all of them are equally screwed if a sheriff checks them night 1.

This is really the only point that needs to be said. Both are awful. I accept Sheriff as equally awful, but hate Investigator more.

[Voss]

To me the fact that Investigator naturally doesn't give a crud about 'immunity to detection', and that Sheriff at least have to ride against Executioners and Jesters. Investigators get information, accuse, and reactions make it fact.
Godfather- dead (immune or not), Mason Leader and Citizen are never in game, and Mayor can't be claimed
Framer- dead (immune or not), Citizen is never in game, and 'I was Framed' might as well not be allowed to be said.
Mafioso- dead, no Vigilante kills
Janitor- dead, no Coroners in game
Blackmailer- dead, unless you never blackmail someone
Disguiser- likely dead, better claim Detective effectively the whole game
Consigliere- maybe lives
Consort- maybe lives

Arsonist- dead, no Bussing feedback
Mass Murderer- dead, if they didn't die to veteran it isnt Veteran
Serial Killer- 50/50
Witch- dead, cause Survivor is his claim.
Cultist- dead, there are never Masons.

In theory Investigator leaves wiggle room, but I really don't see any in the common game. But yes, Sheriff is understandably just as painful.

if you fix these obvious bad claims, and change up the investigative pairings, doesn't it fix it a little bit?

[Anguss]

Spy really should go with Framer rather than being Cit/Sinister... and should have able to read PMs removed to make it less simple to prove

[Voss]

Spy really should go with Framer rather than being Cit/Sinister... and should have able to read PMs removed to make it less simple to prove

there was an argument about this, the defense of the framer should be that he was framed, and that makes sense doesnt it?

[pat_power]

OK but the spy or framer will still always be lynched because spies are so rare

[creedkingsx]

I agree with Bork. Sheriff is a game-ruining role for me. Insane sheriff is kind of better, but barely. I don't like Investigator much either, but more so than the Sheriff because Sheriff is just... bleh.
No matter what.
Sheriffs don't care about immune to detection. Period.
Sc2pubs.

[Voss]

but sheriff is like the second most popular role in all versions of mafia

[creedkingsx]

It's the mostlike anti-mafia role in the game.
I mean Mafia as in the game itself, not the faction.

[Cryptonic]

It's the mostlike anti-mafia role in the game.
I mean Mafia as in the game itself, not the faction.

It really does. Investigator makes it so you don't even have to think and deduce anything.

I disagree with creed saying that Sheriff is game-ruining, only because the game is so fast paced that you can't get a logical lynch on someone in sc2mafia 99% of the time without evidence. You either have a game where everybody sheeps and random lynches, or a game where no one votes and just waits for an investigative PR to step forward. But when you're looking at FM, sheriff definitely is not required as you have much more time to discuss everything.

Also, Insane Sheriff is nice because you either have to wait 3 nights, or wait have one of your targets die lol.

[Damus_Graves]

All Investigatives roles ruin the basis of the game. Which is to read posts and habits and reactions and callouts and budding and voting patterns, etc.

The Very best Game of mafia ever is:
Citizen x13
Mafioso x2

[Quark]

In my games I try to favour detectives and lookouts, especially detectives. Their verdicts leave lots of wiggle room. The investigator leaves wiggle room to an extent, but not in a way that requires being very clever: if you're an sk, just claim doctor. No situational awareness required.