New Role: Snoop

[BorkBot]

Since lots of people didn't seem to like the Chef idea, and the Freelance Photographer was asked to be given an overhaul, I thought I'd try and roll with it.

Snoop

Alignment: Neutral Advanced, Benign

Abilities:
- During the day, type -client and target someone to snoop for. The to-be client can accept or decline.
- If the client accepts, he enters a separate chat with the Snoop at night. The client can choose a target for the Snoop. The Snoop himself can choose an investigative action to take on the chosen player (track, investigate, or check). Both the Snoop and the client are informed about whatever information is revealed.

Special:
- Client is role-blocked at night
- Client is immune to detection

Goals:
- Complete at least one job for the Town and one for the Mafia
- Survive until the end

Options:
- Snoop is immune to being killed at night if he has no client
- Spy hears conversations between the Snoop and his client

Proposed checks (existing)
Investigator check: Your target studies people extensively (Disguiser/Detective/Snoop).
Sheriff check: Not suspicious

Mechanics:
I believe the Snoop is a more interesting (albeit more complicated) role than the merchant in the following suggestion: https://www.thecouncilofmages.com/for...pic,822.0.html
The main reason being that it is an active role with goals that require him to take risks, while being useful and dangerous at the same time to both the Town and the Mafia.

It's essentially a neutral jailor without killing capability, but with versatile investigative options. One night detection immunity should offer bad guys some incentive to accept the role-block and get some info on another player on the side. Especially if town investigators are on their tail and likely to double check. The wide variety of information a Snoop can provide is interesting for most townies, especially the less powerful roles such as citizen and mason who can't do much else otherwise, but also to other investigators who want info of a different type. Something like this doesn't exist yet and I think it could be a lot of fun.

[NorthStar]

Somebody has already suggested something "Chef-like" and I don't think the Freelance Photographer would fit in the game.

[BorkBot]

I noticed that chef, but it was a protective role which was pretty much the same as a bodyguard, while this one is about poisoning, so the exact opposite.

Why do you think the photographer wouldn't work? I think a neutral investigator-type who can play both sides could add quite a bit of intrigue.


EDIT:
Ah.. I just noticed the Sociopath suggestion had similarities to the Chef here. Main difference being that one is Mafia and the other Neutral.

[BorkBot]

Updated role descriptions/mechanics with more detailed explanations and arguments why I think they'd be more fun and more balanced than other suggestions with some similarities.

[Fulla]

Photographer I think is too complicated. There also already is Detective and Lookout for tracking people.

===

Chef, it has potential. I don't think there should EVER be a 2nd killing Mafia role thou unless its one a ONE OFF like Disguiser.

Maybe change is name to Poisoner? I would also simplify him.
- Can make one kill per game.
- The kill negates ALL forms of defense, heals, invul etc.
- The kill is delayed by a night.

That would be enough I think and fit in nicely with the game. A role for the Mafia to by pass and assassinate key targets. But only be able to do it once.

[Spy]

Free-lance photographers are hot. Chefs are good as a friend, but not so hot unless they are the owner of a restaurant and only cooks for fun.

[BorkBot]

Thanks for the feedback

It's true that there are already a couple of trackers, but they are both on the Town and not the most commonly selected. The jailor-like aspect would be enough to make the photographer stand out, I think. Though I do admit it's more complex than most roles, it's not much more complex than a jailor if the ability to reveal photos was removed. It'd just have a different ability then (take photo instead of execute) and a couple of variables to remember the last photo taken.


Maybe if the Chef was made Basic instead of Advanced, it would be easier to avoid 2 killing roles on the maf? It's easy enough to set exclude killing options on Adv and Random mafia players. One poisoning that pierces all protections is definitely still useful, but if you can only take 1 action during the whole game it's not that much fun to play. And the max number of poisonings option should help a bit too.

[BorkBot]

Removed photo reveal mechanic suggestion to avoid too many buttons/mechanics attached to a single role.

Tracking and selling information should provide sufficient options.

[Fulla]

Photographer is to bizarre at the moment!

- Roleblocking the person as well, this is to much?
- Why would anyone choose NOT to buy a photo?

I think it has potential, but right now I can't see it fitting into Mafia, or even being enjoyable to play.
If his goal is to survive the photos should defend him somehow?

I'd rather be a Survivor any day which is saying something

====

Chef - great idea but still think he's way too powerful.

- Immune to detection, this is too strong please take this out. This is also Godfather/Forger only unique stuff.
- Multiple kills you don't think that's too strong? Imagine Godfather, Consig or Consort, Chef - You would massacre the town.

Chef also sounds too 'friendly', I guess 'Poisoner' is a bit of a dull name, but something more like that would be better.

[BorkBot]

Photographer less fun than a survivor? It's a lot more active and there's a lot more room for deception.. Survivor can only put on vests and wait, which is very dull. Also, you can't roleblock on round 1, or if someone has bought your photo in the previous round, or if someone roleblocked you while you were taking a photo (so you don't have one to sell). You can't take a photo and sell one on the same night..

I see your point that buying the photo would be desirable in most cases, but a reason for players not buying it could be that the info the photographer claims to be on the photo isn't useful to them/already known. Because the photographer's goal requires him to play both sides, it could be to your benefit to make sure that he doesn't finish too quickly, so that he needs to keep working for you. You can even ask him to track a specific player and come back the night after that. This is especially handy for the Mafia, because when the photographer isn't done yet it will be harder to get enough votes to lynch Mafia members.


Nah, multiple kills doesn't really seem that OP for the Chef. Most games do have 2 killing roles on the Mafia because the 'converts to Mafioso' option gets checked on a lot of roles. If you don't want more killing roles you can always check the 'no killing roles' option on a random mafia player. Mafioso can get a kill every day, Chef can only get one every other day and there's 2 days to heal it. And with the option on, people will know they are poisoned so they can ask for a doc to help them. Note also that if someone is poisoned, a Sheriff can check out the Chef the next night, because his undetectable aspect only works when he's out poisoning somebody. Maybe it's a good idea to default the message to on, though. To make it easier to counter poison.

Poisoner doesn't sound very elegant and it doesn't include the deceptive element (who would eat poisoned food if their cook doesn't look like one?). In terms of sounding friendly, it's no different than a Janitor. If another name was to be used, though, I'd say Intoxicator has a better ring to it than Poisoner.

[Jailbar]

The Photographer is just a neutral Detective. It's not different enough to be put in the game. The Poisoner basically just kills people. It's not different or interesting enough to be put in the game, and it's also too powerful.

I don't think the Poisoner is salvageable but I think you should keep working at Photographer. If you refined the buying mechanic of the Photographer so that the buyer can make an informed decision before buying, and maybe even "pays" with something, it would be much better. And Detective isn't the most favored role, perhaps just make Photographer a benign Neutral which mostly wants the town to win. It would be more realistic for it to replace the Detective than to be in the game alongside it. "Freelance Detective", "Private Investigator", something like that, I would like that much more than Detective.

[BorkBot]

I read through the 'Catalogue of Interesting Roles' again and I thought that the Freelancer could maybe get a similar mechanic to the suggested Hitman.

Description: A vigilante secret agent that kills people for large sums of money.
Ability: The CK types the command -client "name" during the day to ask someone for a job to kill someone. Then as soon as the command is ordered, the to-be client can either accept or decline. If accepted, the client is roleblocked during night but he will pick a person for the CK to kill.
Win Condition: Live to see town win. This way, town won't want the killer to kill himself, and the killer would try to avoid clienting mafia roles.
Credit: Mr.Smarter

Called it a Snoop now (see edits in first post).. Thoughts?

[NorthStar]

What's a Hitman and why is it so similar to this role?

[BorkBot]

It's from the Catalogue of Interesting Roles that was posted a while back. The summary is in the quote, as you can see.

The role itself isn't similar (one is a killer, the other an investigative role), but the suggested mechanic of contacting a client is derived from it. This way, the has input regarding the information that's provided, and he gets it that same night (and the Snoop himself gets it too, of course). It's meant to replace the indirect method of photos. And the 3 investigative options make it more versatile than just tracking.