Religion

[Nick]

Hear my story:

There is a huge haystack. Jack and Jill have been told that there is a needle in the haystack. Jack believed that there is a needle in the haystack. Jill believed that there is none. The haystack is so huge that it is impossible for Jack to find the needle. The haystack is so huge that it is impossible for Jill to prove that there is no needle. Both have no proof to support their beliefs.

[Nick]

Scientific test:

A new treatment has been designed. In order to promote the new treatment, two scientist need to prove that the new treatment is better than the existing treatment.

Hypothesis: New treatment is significantly better than existing treatment in {test}
Null hypothesis: New treatment is not significantly better than existing treatment in {test}

A battery of tests are conducted. New treatment is shown not to be significantly better than existing treatment.
Obviously, with such results the new treatment will not be accepted to replace the existing treatment.

The caveat here is obviously the type of tests used for evaluation.

Scientific argument is that: as long as you can't prove it... it CANNOT BE true... not IS NOT true...

[Nick]

In short: Both sides are wasting time, effort, resources and energy debating on GOD OR NO GOD issue.

In the meantime, they should just SHUT UP...

[p.h.]

I'm just Atheist until someone can prove that God exists or that I somehow find truth/belief in him.

[Spy]

God has been proven to exist many times, but people just care about other things.

[chocopaw]

Funny sidenote: No christian who understands his religion would ever try to prove the existence of god.

[philie]

plato, the gods existence wont be proven to me until he materializes out of thin air and punches me in the face for being non-believer. He is almighty, and he loses nothing by doing so. Giving people hard evidence wont remove the free from them.

[Spy]

Give me your address

[FalseTruth]

I'm just Atheist until someone can prove that God exists or that I somehow find truth/belief in him.

This is the definition of an Agnostic.

[FalseTruth]

God is perfection of the best form, and we are all shadow of forms.

And the best form is goodness.

Get it right, please. This is not flaming; this is education for the uneducated.

You guys criticize Plato without considering to think what he is defending. He is defending his opinion of what God is. He believes God is goodness.

Therefore, to him. The question, "Is there a God?" is synonymous to "Is there Goodness?"

If you answer yes to this question, then you shouldn't be arguing with Plato. All these arguments are senseless and futile to say the least. Everyone is defining God on their own terms and arguing about whether their version of God exists.

In my opinion, Plato's God does exist. A man sitting in the clouds with a gate and a few angels does not exist. A bunch of Gods with elephant faces do not exist.

And that we cannot be certain of anything.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

We argue with plato regardless.
we're cool like that

[Nick]

Honestly though I believe too many people focus too much on death and forget to live their life!

Religion is SUPPOSED to guide us how to LIVE properly, and give us HOPE after DEATH?

God wants me to worship him

Depends on your religion I guess. Some god/goddess (singular and plural) can't be bothered.

so many people die because of religion

No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...

[WaWMoose]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper &gt.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw

[Nick]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper &gt.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw

As for me, even if science could explain certain phenomenon, it still does not disprove god/gods/deities/spirits. Why do we only associate them with magics and unknowns? Why not 'godly' scientific knowledge?

[Henry]

I am merely anti-religion in just about any form. Religion promotes uncritical thinking and can lead to a loss of individuality as people shape their thoughts to those expressed by that of the religion. I am repulsed by this due to critical thinking being the driving force in our development as a species and individuality being the trait I find most important in humanity. I don't proclaim there is no God, but claiming that there is a God is just as outlandish as claiming any other fantasy entity exists. This follows the thinking of the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster".

People give religion credit for their great achievements and great atrocities they commit. The individual should take credit for their actions, not do it in the name of a religion that is but a concoction of human speculation.

[Zack]

No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...

Religion is human's own folly to begin with, so it is included in your statement. In other words you just said: "No one died from human's own folly. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...", doesn't make sense, no it doesn't.

Religion is an excuse for people to kill or shun other people in the name of "all that is good and right and pure and blah blah blah".

If religion did not exist there wouldn't be terrorists. All terrorists are either religious, insane, or both. All terrorists believe they are in the right, they are the force of justice, and who they kill are the "evil enemy that must be destroyed".

How is religion good if it gives birth to such insanity? Did you know that children are being brainwashed in schools by religious people who take away their choices in life just to keep their insane agenda going? This happens everywhere.

[Nick]

Ugh, "religion" is not only the way to brainwash people. Though as far as I can see "religion" worked the best - a free army which will even fund your cause. Alternative strategies include "ideology" and "idolization or some sort".

[Zack]

Religion works best because its easy to lure in the misguided insecure masses... Ideology would work only in specific situations where many people will follow out of extreme reasons, prime example: the humiliation Germany suffered after losing World War I, where France insisted on punishing the Germans excessively, causing them to turn, in desperation, to Hitler and allowing him to rise to power, which resulted in World War II and the Holocaust. The world learned from that mistake...

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.

[Nick]

It is YET, I believe... currently, it's still at the level of civil wars, or more accurately unrest...

Lets see what will happen after the victor rises from the ash...

[Hero]

No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...

Are you for real...? Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[oops_ur_dead]

He has a point. Religion is an idea. Ideas don't kill people. People brainwashed by ideas kill people.
A minor technicality.

[Hero]

Okey then. If Nick says the institution of church has nothing to do with God, then I can see his point.

[Nick]

Institution of church for better or worse has something to do with God. However, institution of church IS NOT God and DO NOT represent God.

[chocopaw]

"I'm God, and I disapprove of this message."

[FalseTruth]

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.

That depends on what you define to be a world war. If you think a World War is defined to be one in which only developed nations engage in, which is basically WW1 and WW2, then your world view is extremely limited.

The "world" is not just defined as USA + Europe + Japan/China.

No true world war has occurred yet.

[Dark.Revenant]

The previous world wars included Canada, the United States, Mexico (yep), Australia, Japan, China, many southeast Asian countries, Korea, the Middle East, North Africa, all of Europe, and Russia. I don't remember if South America was involved in any way, though.

Basically, some of Africa, all of North America, all of Europe, Australia, and most of Asia was involved.

[Auckmid]

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.

That depends on what you define to be a world war. If you think a World War is defined to be one in which only developed nations engage in, which is basically WW1 and WW2, then your world view is extremely limited.

The "world" is not just defined as USA + Europe + Japan/China.

No true world war has occurred yet.

I gotta question. If the Axis hada won the war, do you think Hitler woulda been content to let all neutral countries roam free? Just because some countries were neutral doesn't mean they were unaffected.

USA had an amazingly small part in both World Wars. The only reason that they participated in WW2 was because the Japanese attacked them, other wise they would have remained neutral. The Allies probably still would have won without the USA's help because Russia was massacring the German army.

And, as D.R. put down, u missed a load of countries (Canada, Mexico, Australia, North Africa, many Asian countries)

[FalseTruth]

I just wanted to point out that the "world wars" didn't actually include the entire world.

[Zack]

Thats nitpicking FalseTruth, the fact is the majority of the world was involved...

[Nick]

I just wanted to point out that the "world wars" didn't actually include the entire world.

The remaining "peaceful" regions during WWII are colonies of the warring countries.

[WaWMoose]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper &gt.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw

As for me, even if science could explain certain phenomenon, it still does not disprove god/gods/deities/spirits. Why do we only associate them with magics and unknowns? Why not 'godly' scientific knowledge?

Because there is no such thing as "Godly scientific knowlege", the only science found in most religious books is as simple as there are fish in the sea. And everything we know is contradictory to what religions are saying.

The point is, if there is nothing to quite yet prove 100% the God doesn't exist, there is nothing that 100% proves a God exists either. So instead of asking Science to prove that God doesn't exist, ask Religion that a God does in fact exist.

The facts that are present right now disapprove of some of the things that Religions imply (Sun does not rotate around Earth, no one can come back from the dead etc.). So if Science is already disapproving of things that Religions imply, why would we not believe Science over Religion?

The way I look at it is Religion is way to control naive groups of people, and gain power through it (look at what the Dalai Lama is trying to do, Saudi Arabia, etc.).

[Nick]

Scientology perhaps? Haha...

"Sun does not rotate around Earth" - misinterpretation?

"no one can come back from the dead" - yet to be disproved!

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I gotta know, how did this turn into a WW2 thread and
who else voted apatheism
just don' giv' a fuk

[CaressMeTenderly]

Psalm 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

All atheists are evil.

[Nick]

And thus atheists will give their own quotes, and claim theists are delusional.

Name calling leads us nowhere...

[CaressMeTenderly]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.

[Nick]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.

Err... atheists do not believe in God, and thus the book of God, and thus do not accept that themselves are evil, and insist that theists are...

If you are free, do read the previous posts on religion, the ones before WWII.

[CaressMeTenderly]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.

Err... atheists do not believe in God, and thus the book of God, and thus do not accept that themselves are evil, and insist that theists are...

If you are free, do read the previous posts on religion, the ones before WWII.

You heard it here first. Atheists claim that anyone who believes in God is evil. You've just insulted the majority of the world's population and called them evil. Maybe you should look in the mirror?

Revelation 21:8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

Just remember what path you embark upon.

[Nick]

No flaming please.

Short explanation of each option:

Theism

Trinitarianism: The belief of one deity with three forms. Mostly held by Christians.
Monotheism: The belief of a single deity. For example, Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Polytheism: The belief in multiple, distinct deities. For example, Hindus.
Pantheism: The belief that the universe and god are one and the same.

Antitheism: The belief that there is a deity, but that they are evil and are to be fought and not worshipped.

Agnosticism: The belief that there may be a deity, but are uncertain about the matter.

Atheism: The belief that no deities exist.

Apatheism: A lack of opinion on the matter.

Compare Antitheism and Atheism.
I only know that Atheist and Agnostist use the word "delusional, etc." but never "evil". As for reasons, please read the above posts. I am just repeating what they have said.
Again, name callings doesn't bring us closer.

Anyway... our discussion are not going too well. This thread might get locked... so we should stop.

[CaressMeTenderly]

I see before me two faiths of similar manner, in that both followers of them are destined for eternity in the pit of fire for their defiance of the one and true God.

[WaWMoose]

"no one can come back from the dead" - yet to be disproved!

.................................................. ......................

[Akasora]

In fact, agnoticism is more like " I don't know if there is a god or not, but I sure know that I will never acquire this knowledge. In conclusion, it is useless for me to think about it, and I should at least not dedicate my life for it's cause. "

[poolandr]

It may sound cliché but there is to little evidence for me to believe in any form of god or higher power.