Politics

[oops_ur_dead]

This is me, according to The Political Compass:

I am mostly libertarian, though not fully anarchist. I believe the government should exist to do things that help the citizens, such as restricting powers of corporations and exploiters of society. I am also against parliamentarianism, and believe that decisions that affect the people should be voted on by the people, and not elected figureheads that loosely fit your ideas. I also believe in distributing wealth and pay based on how much good someone brings to society, and not some sort of wage system.
I'm interested to see what you guys are. Would be nice if you took the test above and linked the results.

[MrSmarter]

Hummmm, I end up at -0.74, 1.38.

[FalseTruth]

Very close to Dalai Lama:

I feel like there are right and wrong answers to this. If you end up in the same place as Hitler or Stalin, you might want to rethink your political mindset.

[McJesus]

I'm less extreme than you but some of the questions are stupid and not even political since I usually am in the top left quadrant. Things like censoring your sex life and religion shouldn't even be political but the U.S hasn't moved past that stupid crap. I don't like how a lot of the questions were framed generally.

[Spy]

I am not so extreme according to that survey. But then, all surveys have their imperfections.

Plato is a Right Libertarian, according to the website.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

[Rumpel1408]

[Zack]

[chocopaw]

It's funny, I remember taking that test 7 years ago.
This time I got -8/-8,21, but don't take that too seriously, many questions can not be answered adequately from a fundamentally critical standpoint.

[Raiden]

Anything below the horizontal line is naive at best. If you live with the assumption that people know what they need, you are very wrong. The large majority of people are stupid, careless, selfish, and what these people want is ultimately not what they need.

The economics on the other hand have a similar problem, however it is more subtle, and harder to realize. The innate corruption and degeneration that mankind brings make it not possible to have a world where everyone works according to his ability and is happy with what he's given. There will always be the smartass who believe he deserves more than everyone else, the jealous who envy those who are luckier, the greedy who will keep his doing secret because he doesn't want to share. A fully communist world is utopian.

[Spy]

I have many problems then.

[chocopaw]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.

[philie]

I find that many questions are misleading, one of them rephrases the same thing, and other imply about what feels morally right vs what leads to overall better result (which is a morally right thing to strive for). It was a bit confusing.

[Raiden]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.

Are you saying that all people love each other and they are so smart and kind to provide goodness for themselves and everyone else around them? How is this ahistorical?

Are you saying that one guy would agree to clean toilets while his friend becomes president? Are you saying that one guy would share his bread with the unemployed, regardless if they ever wanted to work in the first place? Are you saying that the heir of a rich guy will work because it's better for his society? How is this bullshit?

[oops_ur_dead]

Anything below the horizontal line is naive at best. If you live with the assumption that people know what they need, you are very wrong. The large majority of people are stupid, careless, selfish, and what these people want is ultimately not what they need.

That's because we have been raised in an authoritarian capitalist world where that is acceptable. Selflessness can be taught. Look at people like Pyotr Kropotkin, born a prince, but eventually becoming the intellectual leader of the anarcho-communist movement, or me, perfectly set to earn big bucks as a financial manager or an accountant, but instead choosing to focus my abilities into medicine.

[chocopaw]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.

Are you saying that all people love each other and they are so smart and kind to provide goodness for themselves and everyone else around them? How is this ahistorical?

Are you saying that one guy would agree to clean toilets while his friend becomes president? Are you saying that one guy would share his bread with the unemployed, regardless if they ever wanted to work in the first place? Are you saying that the heir of a rich guy will work because it's better for his society? How is this bullshit?

The problem is: You don't question why people act the way they do for one second, you just assume there is a (malevolent) "human nature" and that in all future humans will act the same blablabla. Everything around your questions is ahistorical, as you refuse to think beyond the borders of the western capitalistic society.
Why is there a president and a toiletcleaner? Why is a person unemployed, why do you have to get employed in the first place? Why can you inherit material wealth?

In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results. Therefore the fundaments of this society have to be changed instead of whining about how evil mankind is.

Loving every human has nothing to do with this (although that might be quite nice), rational organisation has. Just eliminate the fact that particular interests have to face against each other.

And why don't you go ahead and just clean your own toilet? That'd be a nice beginning.

[Marcus]

Interesting. This is honestly not as far right or libertarian than I would have thought, but apparently not. It's also surprising that I'm the only person in the bottom right, other than spy. o_O.

[Raiden]

That's because we have been raised in an authoritarian capitalist world where that is acceptable. Selflessness can be taught. Look at people like Pyotr Kropotkin, born a prince, but eventually becoming the intellectual leader of the anarcho-communist movement, or me, perfectly set to earn big bucks as a financial manager or an accountant, but instead choosing to focus my abilities into medicine.

The problem is: You don't question why people act the way they do for one second, you just assume there is a (malevolent) "human nature" and that in all future humans will act the same blablabla. Everything around your questions is ahistorical, as you refuse to think beyond the borders of the western capitalistic society.
Why is there a president and a toiletcleaner? Why is a person unemployed, why do you have to get employed in the first place? Why can you inherit material wealth?

In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results. Therefore the fundaments of this society have to be changed instead of whining about how evil mankind is.

Loving every human has nothing to do with this (although that might be quite nice), rational organisation has. Just eliminate the fact that particular interests have to face against each other.

And why don't you go ahead and just clean your own toilet? That'd be a nice beginning.

I could simply answer with "good luck changing that" because we all know you won't be able to but i'll give a more indepth answer as to why things went this way. Humans are not "evil" but they are indeed selfish. Every living being is ultimately selfish and lives to make his own life better. And they are also stupid.
When there are not enough resources for everyone, you can be sure that those who got access to those resources will never, ever willingly share them with those who don't. That is because if you do so, you, your family, your nation will suffer greatly depending on that decision. Examples of people who gave up their - let's call them - birthrights in order to live in a better society are fewer than white flies. You gotta look at the grand scheme. It requires everyone to behave in order to have a perfect communist society, but just 1 wrong doer to fuck all up. What would you do then? Jail him? Or literally lynch him, since police, jailors, and judges are authority and they have no place in a perfect world.

If you don't like my president example, take any job which is even slightly better than toilet cleaning. Toilets will still need cleaning, and the guy who does that will envy people with better jobs forever. You cannot even organize turns, because people may be equal in terms of rights, but we all know they are not equal in terms of intellectual and physical skills. Try putting the toilet cleaner in place of the president and see what happens.

Capitalism was born because people with better skills deserve at least the chance to be better than their less gifted counterparts. Wages, when used properly, are an incentive to work harder and better. You improve yourself in order to be better, not to be on par with everyone else.
Then every system has its degeneration, and that's where corruption and family favors kicks in.

[chocopaw]

You still speak of nations, jobs and all those petty categories that are specific parts of the specific current state the western society is in, without realizing that they of course are part of the problem.

Selfishness is no obstacle, as it is the selfish part of any human that communists have to adress. And of course any free association of humans would have to deal with "wrongdoers" if they can not fix the reason of their wrongdoing, where's the problem with that? These are examples of the huge misconceptions you bring with you into this debate and on which you build your analysis of society. You seem to think of communism as some hippie fantasy and propably never have read or heard anything decent about the scientific fundament that is the marxist theory.

Capitalism was born because people with better skills deserve at least the chance to be better than their less gifted counterparts. Wages, when used properly, are an incentive to work harder and better. You improve yourself in order to be better, not to be on par with everyone else.
Then every system has its degeneration, and that's where corruption and family favors kicks in.

This is so naive, simplistic and just flat out wrong that even some wikipedia reading should fix some of your thoughts.

Unfortunately my link database of recommendable articles on this subject is entirely in german. I will look out for something in english. But I know that David Harvey is not too bad, maybe you want to check out something of him.

[Raiden]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values, and that is exactly where your communist view of a perfect world fails big time. Contradict me, and you are stepping into capitalism. This is happening since the beginning of time. As a question in political compass implies "from everyone according to his abilities, to everyone according to his needs" is FUNDAMENTALLY a good idea, but it won't work. Ever.

[chocopaw]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol

[Auckmid]

I'm preaty much identical to Phille.
Also, Marcus, soon your going to start thinking and acting like Spy :o

[Raiden]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol

Yep that's basically what you are doing since the start of this argument, all you speak about is your ideal world instead of the actual world we're living in. Sorry mate :P

[Auckmid]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert . But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77

[Rumpel1408]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert . But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77

So you mean this:

[chocopaw]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol

Yep that's basically what you are doing since the start of this argument, all you speak about is your ideal world instead of the actual world we're living in. Sorry mate :P

You actually believe that, don't you?

In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results.

I'm the one who's suggesting that your analysis of the actual form of society is insufficient and that you should try to really explain why things are how they are. All you do is posting weird misconceptions about some idealized concepts that aren't even represented by anyone in this thread. xD
My last post was as it was because I don't see any point in argueing with you as long as you don't even really read what I write. But then again you propably aren't interested in that, as you fight your imaginary or maybe by some 16 year old revoluzzers held enemy viewpoints.

[Raiden]

You still speak of nations, jobs and all those petty categories that are specific parts of the specific current state the western society is in, without realizing that they of course are part of the problem.

So... you would like me to explain why there are nations and jobs and private property? I have alreadly partly done that, but that's not the point. The point is, this is the world we're living in, and my political views are strongly influenced by what is happening right now, as should be yours and everyone else's. The mere belief that you can change that in an acceptable amount of time so that you, your children, or even 10 generations after you can appreciate the difference is... utopian. As i said.

[chocopaw]

1. ... what did I do if not analysing the current politics? (see my self-quote)

2. "Being influenced by what is happening right now" does not equal complete affirmation of it. That you are doing exactly that is the reason why you're argumenting ahistorical.
You are the victim of a simple logical fallacy: "Because it is this way, it has to be this way." If you analyze past social systems and compare it with the current one, you will get a much more precise idea of how the whole shit works. The question if communism or whatever else is possible or not, and when it is possible, does not say one thing about the capitalistic society. That you called everything under the horizontal line naive is just laughable and... ahistorical.
And what do you have to argue about other peoples sexlife and concept of art. Those are the things that let you go under it.

3. You seem to use "utopian" in a pejorative way, which is kinda stupid, as it just says that it is a concept that is not realized yet. And by the way, your "your children and 10 generations" speech is propably what the french thought 1788. And the germans 1939.

[thisismyname]

Economic Left/Right: 6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87

Interesting. I thought I was in the bottom right, but more libertarian than that. Must be the result of my reservations about the Patriot Act easing a bit.

[Auckmid]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert . But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77

So you mean this:

Yeah, thats exactly what I got.

[WaWMoose]

my roots are from the middle east, and im canadian. and to be quiet honest, im alot more interested in the U.S. and Middle Eastern politics alot more than Canadian politics, they seem very one dimensional. heres my scale:

[MrSmarter]

I'm the nearest to the center, what dose that mean?
(Read second post for my coords.)

[thisismyname]

I'm the nearest to the center, what dose that mean?
(Read second post for my coords.)

I suppose that means you can't make up your mind . You are the most volatile swing voter imaginable.

[McJesus]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.

[thisismyname]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.

Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..

[Dark.Revenant]

What about roads and national parks? Just two of a bunch of stuff taxes pay for.

Schools don't push extreme views unless they're in extreme areas. In very far-right areas, schools teach very conservative agendas. In very far-left areas, schools teach very liberal agendas.

They're two sides of the SAME COIN. The fight between 'liberals' (democrats are actually slightly right and republicans are further right) and conservatives is a false conflict that degrades the quality of our politics.

[thisismyname]

What about roads and national parks? Just two of a bunch of stuff taxes pay for.

Schools don't push extreme views unless they're in extreme areas. In very far-right areas, schools teach very conservative agendas. In very far-left areas, schools teach very liberal agendas.

They're two sides of the SAME COIN. The fight between 'liberals' (democrats are actually slightly right and republicans are further right) and conservatives is a false conflict that degrades the quality of our politics.

I did say we need some taxes for ESSENTIAL things that aren't practical for privatization. That's why you don't see me all the way to the bottom right on that graph. But, national parks could easily be funded and managed by private companies. So could roads...but yes, I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to make people pay for access to a private highway system (we already do with taxes though). The fact is, anything the government can manage, private companies can manage better. That includes health care, despite what Michael Moore leads you to believe. That is a fact that has been proven time and time again. It doesn't take repeated viewing of Fox News discussion to understand why this is.

In regards to schools pushing politics, I'm talking about my Environmental Science teacher pushing kids in his class to sign a petition against Bush's social security reform a few years back. Or public schools in California now REQUIRING gay sex be taught in the classroom. Or kids chanting some absurd worship call for Obama. It is a known fact that the vast majority of public schools have a liberal leaning that they push to kids.

Unfortunately, given our state of politics, yes, both the Republicons and Democraps are dropping the ball. The far right scares me almost as much as the far left. But it's not the conservative ideology that's wrong, it's the mismanagement by our politicians.

[oops_ur_dead]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.

Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..

We didn't learn shit about politics at school. If anything, my school is conservative.

[McJesus]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.

Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..

First off most schools have the attitude of "I'm not touching this shit with a 10 foot pole" when it comes to taking sides. Conservatives just think if people dont teach things exactly their way then it makes them evil and liberal. Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats and I can honestly say compared to us your country kind of sucks when it comes to giving rich corporations way too much free reign over everything and it screws your society over. Take health insurance and how people get totally screwed over because of bullshit "prexisting conditions" and anything else they can do to avoid paying up. Also lack of regulation is the reason your economy crashed and burned in 2008 and our regulations made us the last western country to fall into a recession and that we have allready recovered way more jobs than the U.S. Corporations are essential but you need measures to keep them in check or they end up ruining things for everyone because they by definiton only care about making money.

Regulations aren't evil and taxes should go to paying things. You overlook the key fact our society is better now than it was back then.

[oops_ur_dead]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.

[Landstander]

<img src="https://politicalcompass.org/facebook...soc=-1.28">

[thisismyname]

First off most schools have the attitude of "I'm not touching this shit with a 10 foot pole" when it comes to taking sides. Conservatives just think if people dont teach things exactly their way then it makes them evil and liberal. Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats and I can honestly say compared to us your country kind of sucks when it comes to giving rich corporations way too much free reign over everything and it screws your society over. Take health insurance and how people get totally screwed over because of bullshit "prexisting conditions" and anything else they can do to avoid paying up. Also lack of regulation is the reason your economy crashed and burned in 2008 and our regulations made us the last western country to fall into a recession and that we have allready recovered way more jobs than the U.S. Corporations are essential but you need measures to keep them in check or they end up ruining things for everyone because they by definiton only care about making money.

Regulations aren't evil and taxes should go to paying things. You overlook the key fact our society is better now than it was back then.

Well, you're from Canada, that explains it. I guess that makes you a pro on US schools, huh?

You are right, Canada has always been way more loony liberal than America, and we have been on our way there for the better part of six decades now. And, once again, despite what Michael Moore professes, it isn't unregulated big business that got this country into the shithole, it was liberal tax, pork, and spend politics from liberal Washington, not to mention countless unneccessary EPA mandates and regulations designed to "stimulate the economy" yet have done nothing but lead to a complete collapse of the housing industry and soon, the lowering of our AAA bond rating.

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

[oops_ur_dead]

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

I laughed for 3 minutes straight. You can be funny sometimes, George Bush.

[thisismyname]

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

I laughed for 3 minutes straight. You can be funny sometimes, George Bush.

Ah, the usual liberal retort..blame Bush. I havn't heard that one before.

I'm no fan of Bush. He caved in to liberals and screwed up both warfronts in the Middle East. I'm just pointing out that Canada has nothing but a bunch of oil and the freedom to blather liberal bullshit, courtesy of us. No patriotism here; just facts. Sorry some can't deal with it.

[McJesus]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.

LALALALA I'm trying to drown out the sound of a conservative majority LALALALA. Still better than republicans, they would get voted out in a heartbeat if they even tried to pull some of the shit the republicans pull.

[McJesus]

Well, you're from Canada, that explains it. I guess that makes you a pro on US schools, huh?

You are right, Canada has always been way more loony liberal than America, and we have been on our way there for the better part of six decades now. And, once again, despite what Michael Moore professes, it isn't unregulated big business that got this country into the shithole, it was liberal tax, pork, and spend politics from liberal Washington, not to mention countless unneccessary EPA mandates and regulations designed to "stimulate the economy" yet have done nothing but lead to a complete collapse of the housing industry and soon, the lowering of our AAA bond rating.

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

Let me explain why our economy doesn't suck, our banks are regulated and yours gamble with morgages on if they will default or not. Our government actually did a smart approach to solving the problem vs you guys just threw money at the banks and didn't do anything to regulate them. Why are your banks doing this? Because they can! Obama is more conservative than people realize because he just caves in on everything and yet you guys still make him out to be the boogieman. He is a failure of a president for not doing enough and waiting until there is a debt crysis to do things like end the bush tax cuts which should have been slashed as soon as he got into office.

As for healthcare I just laugh at that, you guys have no idea how our healthcare system works and believe me it is better than what the vast majority of americans get.

[WaWMoose]

LOL im sorry hadnt seen this before my post.. i realize u said ealier it was liberal tax and policies that made the US an economic shithole.. you are either a complete moron, or completely ignorant, end of story there. healthcare: Canada is 30th, US is 37th, sure its not THAT much of a difference, but u cant any arguement that says urs is better when the WHO says its not. both educational systems are terrible, i studied one year in the Middle East, and the math i learned there back then in third grade, i learned here in Canada in 8th grade, so yea.. and the only reason we're not in 'wars' except afghanistan, is because our governement has its own oil, that it doesnt need to steal from the poorer less powerful countries (personally i saw no weapons of mass destruction found in iraq, did u?)

honestly i think the US will complpetely collapse economically in about 20, it'll be sad to watch, but if you're gunna have people like Hermain Cain and Michelle Bachmann running for president..you're kinda asking for it.

[thisismyname]

LOL im sorry hadnt seen this before my post.. i realize u said ealier it was liberal tax and policies that made the US an economic shithole.. you are either a complete moron, or completely ignorant, end of story there. healthcare: Canada is 30th, US is 37th, sure its not THAT much of a difference, but u cant any arguement that says urs is better when the WHO says its not. both educational systems are terrible, i studied one year in the Middle East, and the math i learned there back then in third grade, i learned here in Canada in 8th grade, so yea.. and the only reason we're not in 'wars' except afghanistan, is because our governement has its own oil, that it doesnt need to steal from the poorer less powerful countries (personally i saw no weapons of mass destruction found in iraq, did u?)

honestly i think the US will complpetely collapse economically in about 20, it'll be sad to watch, but if you're gunna have people like Hermain Cain and Michelle Bachmann running for president..you're kinda asking for it.

Honestly, the Democraps could literally walk up and molest you kids and you'd still blame conservatives.

And, let me guess, you're going to tell me Wall Street and the banking industry just raped our economy on its own? Yes, I admit there was mismanagement from hell, but that wasn't the core reason. It was Clinton who aggresively pushed policies making it easier for low income individuals who can't afford to pay off the loan get a home. The Federal Reserve also added to this damage by aggressively lowering interest rates, enticing this bad behavior with access to cheap borrowing. As much as I don't like Bush, at least he had the sense to see through the impending collapse in 2006, but couldn't get through to a Democratically controlled congress with Barney Frank lying his ass off on the floor saying "we don't have a banking crisis. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are healthy as can be." The facts are the facts.

No shit both educational systems are terrible. That's because public education is a bloody fucking mess and the liberal answer is to throw more money at a failing system.

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

[oops_ur_dead]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.

LALALALA I'm trying to drown out the sound of a conservative majority LALALALA. Still better than republicans, they would get voted out in a heartbeat if they even tried to pull some of the shit the republicans pull.

Saying the Conservatives are better than the Republicans is like saying that Pol Pot was better than Stalin.

[WaWMoose]

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

You like a guy who claims he is a great follower of the Consitution, when he probably hasn't even read it?? really?
Here's just some reasons why this cuntbag would be the worst President of the United States EVER.
1. Everytime he "quotes" the Consitution, he actually quotes the Declaration of Independance, i'm canadian and i know this, how does he not?
2. He thinks that a Mosque being built in a community, can be stopped if the Community wants..where's your freedom of religion at huh?? He also thinks that a Muslim Mosque combines 'Church and State', is he retarded? a Mosque is for praying, not to discuss economy and how to enfoce 'Sharia Law' on other people lol..trust me i know, i used to be muslim and have went many times with my dad before i left Islam...
3. He wants to not allow any Muslims in his government, freedom of religion yet again.. and he also wants to make muslims take some test to ensure their loyalty to the US Constitution... READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION FIRST.
4. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU QUOTE IT.
5. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION. DONT FUCKING QUOTE "LIVE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPINESS" WHEN ITS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE.

This (insert word here that means racist against a certain religion) scumbag's ignorance is beyond me... and your Clinton arguement, i'll let that speak for itself..