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[QUOTE=DarknessB;638554]Yeah, this is why Neutral Evil (but non-killing) roles are heavily disfavored in Forum Mafia other than Cult of course (which tends to be the anti-Town faction in its games). More so solo roles like Witch, Auditor (I don't think I've ever seen someone use an Auditor in an FM game interestingly), Judge (which has rarely been seen), etc. It's just tough rolling Neutral -- you're basically playing to do well vs. win in most games realistically speaking.[/QUOTE]
One fix I find for "neutral evil" roles, given there's only one scum faction, is to simply let them win while being dead, as long as town lost. They're basically just a member of the mafia who doesn't know the mafia, which is how neutral evils basically play anyways.

Originally Posted by DarknessB

Yeah, this is why Neutral Evil (but non-killing) roles are heavily disfavored in Forum Mafia other than Cult of course (which tends to be the anti-Town faction in its games). More so solo roles like Witch, Auditor (I don't think I've ever seen someone use an Auditor in an FM game interestingly), Judge (which has rarely been seen), etc. It's just tough rolling Neutral -- you're basically playing to do well vs. win in most games realistically speaking.

One fix I find for "neutral evil" roles, given there's only one scum faction, is to simply let them win while being dead, as long as town lost. They're basically just a member of the mafia who doesn't know the mafia, which is how neutral evils basically play anyways.

[QUOTE=Voss;638557](Playing a little devil's advocate, because i pretty much agree)
I get that and initially thought this was the right answer, but shouldn't a town that's working really well together have a higher chance of winning? I mean, on the other hand, I'd like to almost reward a town that's playing the right way since it's harder for town to 'work the right way'.[/QUOTE]
I bake the town's success at "working together" into that; some setups will be balanced on one community and won't be balanced on another simply because different strategies and metas will affect the easiness of some wincons. So by "equal chance" I mean something like a "a randomly assigned group of regulars at the site will tend to have 1/3rd of their games end with each victory type."

Originally Posted by Voss

(Playing a little devil's advocate, because i pretty much agree)
I get that and initially thought this was the right answer, but shouldn't a town that's working really well together have a higher chance of winning? I mean, on the other hand, I'd like to almost reward a town that's playing the right way since it's harder for town to 'work the right way'.

I bake the town's success at "working together" into that; some setups will be balanced on one community and won't be balanced on another simply because different strategies and metas will affect the easiness of some wincons. So by "equal chance" I mean something like a "a randomly assigned group of regulars at the site will tend to have 1/3rd of their games end with each victory type."

Are we talking for your mafia game/SC2Mafia or for forum mafia? It does change my answer. For a quick game that's over in less than an hour, it's fine to have some hard roles to win as because people can just change roles soon.

But for forum mafia game, giving someone an extra-hard role they have to stick with is in general cruel. You don't want the SK to think at the end of the game "I played so well but got unlucky with a cop check; if only I had an ally like mafia I would have won!" I believe very strongly that the best FM setups give all factions a roughly equal chance to win. So if it's Town-Mafia-SK, I aim for 33-33-33 by giving the SK night immunity, possible detection immunity, and perhaps an extra kill.

In practice, you'll get something off from that, but if your three-faction game lets town win more than 50% of the time, or SK win less than 20%, it fails my notion of balance pretty hard.

Are we talking for your mafia game/SC2Mafia or for forum mafia? It does change my answer. For a quick game that's over in less than an hour, it's fine to have some hard roles to win as because people can just change roles soon.

But for forum mafia game, giving someone an extra-hard role they have to stick with is in general cruel. You don't want the SK to think at the end of the game "I played so well but got unlucky with a cop check; if only I had an ally like mafia I would have won!" I believe very strongly that the best FM setups give all factions a roughly equal chance to win. So if it's Town-Mafia-SK, I aim for 33-33-33 by giving the SK night immunity, possible detection immunity, and perhaps an extra kill.

In practice, you'll get something off from that, but if your three-faction game lets town win more than 50% of the time, or SK win less than 20%, it fails my notion of balance pretty hard.