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[QUOTE=Kenny;852416]This could be a good thread to point fingers at everyone including the person above me, but I think gaslighting is a good tool that generally makes people look influential in games.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it is a reason why some of the high point players on the mod are able to influence the game in conversation, because they use stuff like this. This could work in FM as well, as I said previously, it would just take a bit more effort in it to be subtle.

Originally Posted by Kenny

This could be a good thread to point fingers at everyone including the person above me, but I think gaslighting is a good tool that generally makes people look influential in games.

I agree, it is a reason why some of the high point players on the mod are able to influence the game in conversation, because they use stuff like this. This could work in FM as well, as I said previously, it would just take a bit more effort in it to be subtle.

[QUOTE=theoneceko]For example, I saw Efekann gaslighting Distorted in the Furry Potter game that just ended. Efekann claimed like five roles in the first day to "convince" town that Distorted is "scum." Obviously, Efekann wasn't being serious and as Varcron said, putting all that attention on Distorted could make him fumble or at least pressure him to vote with town if he IS scum.[/QUOTE]

This is the sort of gaslighting that I think is okay, as much as I believe it should be more subtle than just that

Originally Posted by theoneceko

For example, I saw Efekann gaslighting Distorted in the Furry Potter game that just ended. Efekann claimed like five roles in the first day to "convince" town that Distorted is "scum." Obviously, Efekann wasn't being serious and as Varcron said, putting all that attention on Distorted could make him fumble or at least pressure him to vote with town if he IS scum.

This is the sort of gaslighting that I think is okay, as much as I believe it should be more subtle than just that

[QUOTE=theoneceko;852293]I don't play forum mafia, just the battle.net version but I wanted to put my two cents in since I've had similar experiences.

In the battle.net version, there's something called "witch-hunting," which is when someone is targeted because of their in-game nickname (you can choose a unique nickname when you're in a Sc2Mafia game). The targeted person could be a known troll, toxic, a moderator, or just someone using an HTML colored name (a special privilege awarded after earning a certain number of points).

Mods recently decided to allow witch-hunting since players can just change their in-game nickname, which you could argue allows for more toxic behavior. In general, there already is a ton of "gaslighting" between battle.net players. Every other lobby I'm in has people from a previous match arguing with each other or hosts kicking players for personal reasons. It's a shitshow. And guess what? I don't care, and I doubt most other battle.net players care since they're still playing. Trash talk is just a part of battle.net mafia, and I'm super grateful to have found a game that allows it.

If there's a personal vendetta between two players, I'd want them to settle it between themselves. If someone is basically spamming "I want THIS player to die," you can:

1. Ignore it if the gaslighter isn't providing evidence for his claim.
2. Punish the gaslighter if he's working against his objective by targeting someone. For example, a doctor who pretends to be sheriff and claims the gaslightee is mafia just to get a lynch on the person he hates.

There's also the issue of figuring how serious the gaslighter is being, if someone's trolling I also think that should be allowed. That's just my personal preference though. Also, if town is stupid enough to lynch someone based off of a gaslighter making claims from day 1, that should be the town's problem. Gaslighters should be treated as executioners, jesters, potential evils trying to confuse town, or towns trying to fake jester so they don't get shot by mafia (since mafia shooting jester is basically a wasted night for mafia)---not as trolls who shouldn't play the game.

#MakeMafiaToxicAgain[/QUOTE]

Oh, I don't mean it like that at all, that's just griefing at that point.

I mean in the game, if you say something to instill doubt in someone, that is considered gaslighting as well, what you're going on is fully flaming/griefing.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

I don't play forum mafia, just the battle.net version but I wanted to put my two cents in since I've had similar experiences.

In the battle.net version, there's something called "witch-hunting," which is when someone is targeted because of their in-game nickname (you can choose a unique nickname when you're in a Sc2Mafia game). The targeted person could be a known troll, toxic, a moderator, or just someone using an HTML colored name (a special privilege awarded after earning a certain number of points).

Mods recently decided to allow witch-hunting since players can just change their in-game nickname, which you could argue allows for more toxic behavior. In general, there already is a ton of "gaslighting" between battle.net players. Every other lobby I'm in has people from a previous match arguing with each other or hosts kicking players for personal reasons. It's a shitshow. And guess what? I don't care, and I doubt most other battle.net players care since they're still playing. Trash talk is just a part of battle.net mafia, and I'm super grateful to have found a game that allows it.

If there's a personal vendetta between two players, I'd want them to settle it between themselves. If someone is basically spamming "I want THIS player to die," you can:

1. Ignore it if the gaslighter isn't providing evidence for his claim.
2. Punish the gaslighter if he's working against his objective by targeting someone. For example, a doctor who pretends to be sheriff and claims the gaslightee is mafia just to get a lynch on the person he hates.

There's also the issue of figuring how serious the gaslighter is being, if someone's trolling I also think that should be allowed. That's just my personal preference though. Also, if town is stupid enough to lynch someone based off of a gaslighter making claims from day 1, that should be the town's problem. Gaslighters should be treated as executioners, jesters, potential evils trying to confuse town, or towns trying to fake jester so they don't get shot by mafia (since mafia shooting jester is basically a wasted night for mafia)---not as trolls who shouldn't play the game.

#MakeMafiaToxicAgain

Oh, I don't mean it like that at all, that's just griefing at that point.

I mean in the game, if you say something to instill doubt in someone, that is considered gaslighting as well, what you're going on is fully flaming/griefing.

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;852286][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting"]Gaslighting[/URL] is a behavior often encountered in FM. This thread is here for people to discuss both the moral and strategic aspects of the topic.

First, to keep things clear : personally attacking a player, telling them they are "simply too dumb to play this game", etc. is NOT allowed on this site (and on most other sites). That being said, gaslighting does not stop there.

It is quite common to see townies, and more rarely, scums, question their own choices because of their own doubt; it is also common to see people (often the target of the victim's suspicions) try to make others doubt of their own reasoning without directly entering an argument with them. My question is : do you think that gaslighting is a valid strategy, both efficiency-wise and moral-wise (excluding the rule-breaking version of it)?[/QUOTE]

I personally love this strategy, it's my #1 reason why I do fairly well on the mod and also here at times.

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Think about it this way[/COLOR]: You create [COLOR="#FF0000"]doubt[/COLOR] in a player who you think is [COLOR="#FF0000"]scum[/COLOR] as [COLOR="#00FF00"]town[/COLOR], they are more likely to fumble and help the[COLOR="#00FF00"] town's[/COLOR] cause instead of their own, via exposing themselves as scum etc. It's even more effective on the [COLOR="#FF0000"]scum[/COLOR] side, because the more doubt you can plant in the [COLOR="#00FF00"]town[/COLOR], the less likely you or your scummies will be found.


EDIT: I realize my post is a bit clunky, but I hope you get the point. Don't cross the line, and you're fine in all aspects, otherwise just don't do it.

EDIT #2: You don't need to cause a massive argument to put doubt in, just the phrase here and there that makes someone think "Hmm.... Am I right?"

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Gaslighting is a behavior often encountered in FM. This thread is here for people to discuss both the moral and strategic aspects of the topic.

First, to keep things clear : personally attacking a player, telling them they are "simply too dumb to play this game", etc. is NOT allowed on this site (and on most other sites). That being said, gaslighting does not stop there.

It is quite common to see townies, and more rarely, scums, question their own choices because of their own doubt; it is also common to see people (often the target of the victim's suspicions) try to make others doubt of their own reasoning without directly entering an argument with them. My question is : do you think that gaslighting is a valid strategy, both efficiency-wise and moral-wise (excluding the rule-breaking version of it)?

I personally love this strategy, it's my #1 reason why I do fairly well on the mod and also here at times.

Think about it this way: You create doubt in a player who you think is scum as town, they are more likely to fumble and help the town's cause instead of their own, via exposing themselves as scum etc. It's even more effective on the scum side, because the more doubt you can plant in the town, the less likely you or your scummies will be found.


EDIT: I realize my post is a bit clunky, but I hope you get the point. Don't cross the line, and you're fine in all aspects, otherwise just don't do it.

EDIT #2: You don't need to cause a massive argument to put doubt in, just the phrase here and there that makes someone think "Hmm.... Am I right?"