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[COLOR="#ff0099"]I can't believe how many you have not seen Ano Hana. It's easily in my top 5 favorites.[/COLOR]

I can't believe how many you have not seen Ano Hana. It's easily in my top 5 favorites.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Well, it's literally impossible for it to still be in the air, so it either crashed on an island in the Indian Ocean or is on the ocean floor.[/COLOR]

Well, it's literally impossible for it to still be in the air, so it either crashed on an island in the Indian Ocean or is on the ocean floor.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Louiswill, why would you want such an idiotic thing to take place? This would solve nothing.[/COLOR]

Louiswill, why would you want such an idiotic thing to take place? This would solve nothing.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]I'm so sick of going to war due to our alliances with other countries, so I really hope Obama stays out of this.[/COLOR]

I'm so sick of going to war due to our alliances with other countries, so I really hope Obama stays out of this.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]That's a terrible example, because spam accounts/trolls/those who intentionally break the rules would in fact be attempting to break the window in your analogy. And banning isn't the same as killing them, it's punishment for whatever wrongdoing they committed... It's more like an exile effect.[/COLOR]

That's a terrible example, because spam accounts/trolls/those who intentionally break the rules would in fact be attempting to break the window in your analogy. And banning isn't the same as killing them, it's punishment for whatever wrongdoing they committed... It's more like an exile effect.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]I read through the entire discussion. If we are to release these people of their greatest punishment, do you really think that will solve anything? And if their goal is to get banned, why do they keep on coming back?[/COLOR]

I read through the entire discussion. If we are to release these people of their greatest punishment, do you really think that will solve anything? And if their goal is to get banned, why do they keep on coming back?

[COLOR="#ff0099"]This is an absolutely terrible idea. Think of all the random trolls/spam accounts that would continue to come back since their accounts are not permanently removed. [/COLOR]

This is an absolutely terrible idea. Think of all the random trolls/spam accounts that would continue to come back since their accounts are not permanently removed.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]The more funny thing is that in your comparison using calculus, by using other theorems other than MVT, you can definitely find that point.

And, what I mean by influencing a person's choices is that any manipulation of time would not directly lead any individual to choose a certain way or another. Each individual would still have a choice do do whatever he or she wanted whether it is logical or not. It would be an indirect attempt to have someone choose a certain way, or influence. [/COLOR]

The more funny thing is that in your comparison using calculus, by using other theorems other than MVT, you can definitely find that point.

And, what I mean by influencing a person's choices is that any manipulation of time would not directly lead any individual to choose a certain way or another. Each individual would still have a choice do do whatever he or she wanted whether it is logical or not. It would be an indirect attempt to have someone choose a certain way, or influence.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Why does it exclude that?[/COLOR]

Why does it exclude that?

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Then to answer TTL's question, I do believe that it would still be free will, because even if he changes the past or the future, he is not directly choosing for the said person. The God would be influencing it rather than the alternative choosing for that person.[/COLOR]

Then to answer TTL's question, I do believe that it would still be free will, because even if he changes the past or the future, he is not directly choosing for the said person. The God would be influencing it rather than the alternative choosing for that person.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Okay, before I reply, I have no idea what ^^^^^ means at all.

And I like the idea that Cryptonic has, but I guess one way omniscience and free will can coincide is that omniscience is knowing everything, not necessarily controlling everything. Humans would have the ability to choose, but the God would know all of their choices and the possible outcomes of their choices' consequences. This would rectify the Hell theory of yours, I think.[/COLOR]

Okay, before I reply, I have no idea what ^^^^^ means at all.

And I like the idea that Cryptonic has, but I guess one way omniscience and free will can coincide is that omniscience is knowing everything, not necessarily controlling everything. Humans would have the ability to choose, but the God would know all of their choices and the possible outcomes of their choices' consequences. This would rectify the Hell theory of yours, I think.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]I'd have to say free will is having the power to choose any outcome without any power or outside force controlling your action.[/COLOR]

I'd have to say free will is having the power to choose any outcome without any power or outside force controlling your action.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Well, that's rather sexist. :/[/COLOR]

Well, that's rather sexist. :/

[QUOTE=Yayap;431524]No.. you weren't skipped over "like Frog"... you were skipped for different reasons.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Do you happen to know what such a reason could be? I know it's not a post count violation because there's someone in the sign ups with only one post.[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by Yayap

No.. you weren't skipped over "like Frog"... you were skipped for different reasons.

Do you happen to know what such a reason could be? I know it's not a post count violation because there's someone in the sign ups with only one post.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]But if we really had free will, wouldn't we be able to digress from the apparent future that the omniscient God envisions? That's really what it comes down to.[/COLOR]

But if we really had free will, wouldn't we be able to digress from the apparent future that the omniscient God envisions? That's really what it comes down to.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Um, wasn't I also skipped over as well like Frog?[/COLOR]

Um, wasn't I also skipped over as well like Frog?

[COLOR="#ff0099"]My family has a tendency of keeping useless crap in assorted rooms, but I would either sell them or throw them away.[/COLOR]

My family has a tendency of keeping useless crap in assorted rooms, but I would either sell them or throw them away.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]The sentences that try to help you understand the connotation of the situations are hilarious.[/COLOR]

The sentences that try to help you understand the connotation of the situations are hilarious.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Anyway, Louis, basically what Nick is saying is that it really doesn't matter what God's opinion of the world is. In this example in the thread, if free will and omniscience and coexist, logically, God has to care.[/COLOR]

Anyway, Louis, basically what Nick is saying is that it really doesn't matter what God's opinion of the world is. In this example in the thread, if free will and omniscience and coexist, logically, God has to care.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]Okay, so the title of the thread is "Free will and an omniscient God" and you're attempting to answer the question by taking God out of the equation? That's not even possible.[/COLOR]

Okay, so the title of the thread is "Free will and an omniscient God" and you're attempting to answer the question by taking God out of the equation? That's not even possible.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]It's not the fact that God is beyond logic, but the fact that any laws of economics don't apply to a God. The whole explanation you attempted to make toward worth has absolutely nothing to do with the link between predestination (if we have to label it) and free will.[/COLOR]

It's not the fact that God is beyond logic, but the fact that any laws of economics don't apply to a God. The whole explanation you attempted to make toward worth has absolutely nothing to do with the link between predestination (if we have to label it) and free will.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]I happily sign up. [/COLOR]

I happily sign up.

[COLOR="#ff0099"]I'm going to revive this topic only because I feel like the question was never answered. The philosophy/psychology of a religion has very little to do with economics, and it is basically impossible to assume a perfect God would retain any thoughts of the humans he created. Therefore, the economic standpoint above holds little precedence in the question at all, since all the information it presents is basically fallible in this example. And, of course, it doesn't even answer the question.

Logically, God's omniscience and a human's free will cannot coincide in the way of salvation. Humans can either claim to say that they caused their salvation (free will) or that a higher being caused them to cause it (omniscience/predestination). There's really no logical way to overlap the two, since anything involving choice would be overpowered by a God's omniscience and omnipotence that basically takes precedence over any extremely insignificant human's role in anything. And, if a human were to say that their choice to follow a certain religion took precedence, that would be the same logically as claiming that their precedence overpowers that God, meaning that he/she is more powerful than God at that instant, which is impossible. [/COLOR]

I'm going to revive this topic only because I feel like the question was never answered. The philosophy/psychology of a religion has very little to do with economics, and it is basically impossible to assume a perfect God would retain any thoughts of the humans he created. Therefore, the economic standpoint above holds little precedence in the question at all, since all the information it presents is basically fallible in this example. And, of course, it doesn't even answer the question.

Logically, God's omniscience and a human's free will cannot coincide in the way of salvation. Humans can either claim to say that they caused their salvation (free will) or that a higher being caused them to cause it (omniscience/predestination). There's really no logical way to overlap the two, since anything involving choice would be overpowered by a God's omniscience and omnipotence that basically takes precedence over any extremely insignificant human's role in anything. And, if a human were to say that their choice to follow a certain religion took precedence, that would be the same logically as claiming that their precedence overpowers that God, meaning that he/she is more powerful than God at that instant, which is impossible.