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[QUOTE=OzyWho;944936]I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure that its a conversation I want to have on the forum but the reaction to the belief someone had taken their life says more about the moderation team than if someone actually died or not imo. I personally believe trying to convince people they are responsible for your death is one of the greatest evils an individual could do if that was the case but I did not keep digging to find out what happened in the fall out so I can't speak intelligently about it.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.

I am not sure that its a conversation I want to have on the forum but the reaction to the belief someone had taken their life says more about the moderation team than if someone actually died or not imo. I personally believe trying to convince people they are responsible for your death is one of the greatest evils an individual could do if that was the case but I did not keep digging to find out what happened in the fall out so I can't speak intelligently about it.

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;944864]Hey, I didn't express my disagreement ^^ it's just that it seems we're running in circles about something that is not positive, to say the least, and I'm not sure that's the best thing for the community.[/QUOTE]

I personally don’t think any part of this situation is good for Sc2, MU, or the global mafia community. Part of why I just kept quiet about it for so long.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Hey, I didn't express my disagreement ^^ it's just that it seems we're running in circles about something that is not positive, to say the least, and I'm not sure that's the best thing for the community.

I personally don’t think any part of this situation is good for Sc2, MU, or the global mafia community. Part of why I just kept quiet about it for so long.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944700][MENTION=10617]Helz[/MENTION] for me, this settles every aspect of this topic that I think of atm.
Is there something else that you desire to get out of this?[/QUOTE]

I spoke with some of my friends about the issue and got a few laughs. Its pretty ironic I was banned as a racist while trying to deconstruct systemic racism and as my friend pointed out its kinda comical that my reaction to the injustice of the situation seems to be a hard line function of my 'white privilege'

Unfortunately I think this will just become my new normal. Mafia is just too big a part of my life to walk away from and this situation really taints the experience for me. I doubt I will ever be able to play a game without thinking about this and speaking about how fucked up MU's mods were on the situation. Its just maddening to feel that the entire situation should be able to be handled with a simple conversation. That a formal process exists for that conversation to happen and they have chosen to prevent that from happening.

It sucks. Its certainly going to make my life worse off and likely going to make me less fun to be around in some respects but I do not think I will ever be able to put this behind me. I do not think anything could ever make this right. They could unban me and publicly state they fucked up and I would still wonder how many other people they have railroaded like this. I very honestly believe they would have scaled it back if I had just come to them like a bitch on my knees but that was never going to happen. I have a weird level of distain for that attitude that people should fear their power in a fucking video game community.

Its their community and they can do what they want. I am kinda upset that as soon as I was banned this attitude came out that I was an outsider to their community. Like I had not spent years there playing games, writing guides, and participating in discussions but I suppose its a narrative that justifies less consideration for my ban or the due process.

I am going to make something good out of this in the end. I dont know how yet but if nothing else this situation and its aftermath has highlighted my growing incomitance in communication.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

@Helz for me, this settles every aspect of this topic that I think of atm.
Is there something else that you desire to get out of this?

I spoke with some of my friends about the issue and got a few laughs. Its pretty ironic I was banned as a racist while trying to deconstruct systemic racism and as my friend pointed out its kinda comical that my reaction to the injustice of the situation seems to be a hard line function of my 'white privilege'

Unfortunately I think this will just become my new normal. Mafia is just too big a part of my life to walk away from and this situation really taints the experience for me. I doubt I will ever be able to play a game without thinking about this and speaking about how fucked up MU's mods were on the situation. Its just maddening to feel that the entire situation should be able to be handled with a simple conversation. That a formal process exists for that conversation to happen and they have chosen to prevent that from happening.

It sucks. Its certainly going to make my life worse off and likely going to make me less fun to be around in some respects but I do not think I will ever be able to put this behind me. I do not think anything could ever make this right. They could unban me and publicly state they fucked up and I would still wonder how many other people they have railroaded like this. I very honestly believe they would have scaled it back if I had just come to them like a bitch on my knees but that was never going to happen. I have a weird level of distain for that attitude that people should fear their power in a fucking video game community.

Its their community and they can do what they want. I am kinda upset that as soon as I was banned this attitude came out that I was an outsider to their community. Like I had not spent years there playing games, writing guides, and participating in discussions but I suppose its a narrative that justifies less consideration for my ban or the due process.

I am going to make something good out of this in the end. I dont know how yet but if nothing else this situation and its aftermath has highlighted my growing incomitance in communication.

[QUOTE=aamirus;944446]Helz what you need to clarify is the usage of the term “black culture”. I don’t think anyone will disagree that the culture in gang-filled ghettos leads to a cycle of crime. But I do disagree with calling that “black culture”, even if a large percentage of black Americans live in such areas.

You yourself mentioned that things were similar for whites living in similar conditions in some European countries so I know you don’t equate it to being about race. And yet you still called it “black culture”, sort of contradicting yourself? “Asian culture glorifying academics” is just as problematic too. Japanese, Indians, Indonesians, and iraqis all have some united cultural drive to do well in academics? Again I get the stereotype you’re addressing but perhaps you just need to use some different wording?[/QUOTE]

Its a pretty cringe term. At the end of the day I was trying to grab many races and examples to highlight a concept and illustrate that the behaviors had nothing to do with race. You could declare... I dont know.. Taco's illegal in south Texas and in doing so target a demographic. It holds zero moral or ethical bearing. The subject of 'black culture' came about because the conversation started on the point of disparities in prison populations as related to African Americans.

You are right that I could have worded that better. Its honestly not 'black culture' at all but rather 'a' culture. Assigning a race to a culture is absolutely ignorant in many respects and not what I intended.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Helz what you need to clarify is the usage of the term “black culture”. I don’t think anyone will disagree that the culture in gang-filled ghettos leads to a cycle of crime. But I do disagree with calling that “black culture”, even if a large percentage of black Americans live in such areas.

You yourself mentioned that things were similar for whites living in similar conditions in some European countries so I know you don’t equate it to being about race. And yet you still called it “black culture”, sort of contradicting yourself? “Asian culture glorifying academics” is just as problematic too. Japanese, Indians, Indonesians, and iraqis all have some united cultural drive to do well in academics? Again I get the stereotype you’re addressing but perhaps you just need to use some different wording?

Its a pretty cringe term. At the end of the day I was trying to grab many races and examples to highlight a concept and illustrate that the behaviors had nothing to do with race. You could declare... I dont know.. Taco's illegal in south Texas and in doing so target a demographic. It holds zero moral or ethical bearing. The subject of 'black culture' came about because the conversation started on the point of disparities in prison populations as related to African Americans.

You are right that I could have worded that better. Its honestly not 'black culture' at all but rather 'a' culture. Assigning a race to a culture is absolutely ignorant in many respects and not what I intended.

[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;944442]I think it would be much more beneficial if you could explain it rather succinctly and try to keep yourself to maybe like 2 sentences or 50 words to make your point actually coherent.[/QUOTE]

I think I should separate what I was trying to say on discord from what my beliefs are. I was kinda rambling about both in this thread.

Before where Ozy's chat log started as simply as I could say it I said that some things attributed as systemic racism are cultural in nature. Anyone with access to the discord should be able to search it and find the quote easily enough.
I spoke about multiple racial stereotypes referencing cultural drives to their origins specifically to highlight how behaviors were not racial. My opinion is that racism holds the belief that a literal race of people is born with detrimental qualities which I find absurd (although I am on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture fence.) I spoke about disproportionate racial distributions in the NBA to underscore the point in a non-derogatorily context pointing out that nobody is calling the NBA racist and that cultural drives push members of a culture to excel in sports rather than racial qualities.

For what I believe something I have been chewing on over the last year is if laws targeting 'black culture' exist to target race or if they exist to target the culture. I feel it is a small but very significant difference in intention. I brought up segregation as an example to how laws can make non-immoral behavior illegal because I felt my point was being construed as 'Black culture leads to immoral behavior.' For one of the more overt modern day examples consider the ongoing fight of schools making wearing du-rags against policy. There is nothing intrinsically 'racial' about a du-rag. But culturally it overtly disproportionately targets African American men over any other demographic. As simply as I can say it in a natural society laws/rules are created to establish formal punishments for taboos while in our society we have laws and rules punishing norms in a targeted way which I see as attributed as systemic racism. Deconstructing how and why this is done is important to understanding what the problem actually is without cutting to some useless thought process of 'Theres a room of old racist white people to blame.' Creating laws and punishments that target a demographic is absolutely a thing (although as I said I have been wondering for some time if the intention is racial or cultural)

A substantial amount of my thoughts on this matter are not original. If you are interested here is a UN publication with lots of solid data: [url]https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/UN-Report-on-Racial-Disparities.pdf[/url]
Here is a study by the ACLU titled "RACIALLY TARGETED ARRESTS IN THE ERA OF MARIJUANA REFORM" which pretty overtly outlines disparity of enforcement. [url]https://www.aclu.org/report/tale-two-countries-racially-targeted-arrests-era-marijuana-reform[/url]
Here is multiple study's by the united states sentencing commission that flatly finds "Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing." [url]https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing[/url]

Theres truckloads of data highlighting that even without targeted laws in practice African Americans and Men get hit harder in both sentencing as well as being charged with what crimes. I feel like thats a point everyone can accept. To take it a step further there is also tons of data on laws existing that seem to target African Americans (although once again, I would point out they are cultural in nature and not saying 'X color of skin = this action') We like to think that segregation ended but I just see it as less overt now. If you are interested here is an article that outlines what and how laws are used to suppress voting for racial demographics: [url]https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2019/08/07/473003/systematic-inequality-american-democracy/[/url]
And here is a publication from the Vera Institute of Justice essentially taking the position I regurgitated: [url]https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/for-the-record-unjust-burden-racial-disparities.pdf[/url]
Its key takeaway spells it out pretty plainly "Racial disparities in the criminal justice system are no accident, but rather are rooted in a history of oppression and discriminatory decision making that have deliberately targeted black people and helped create an inaccurate picture of crime that deceptively links them with criminality."
"Discriminatory criminal justice policies and practices have historically and unjustifiably targeted black people since the Reconstruction Era, including Black Codes, vagrancy laws, and convict leasing, all of which were used to continue post-slavery control over newly-freed people."

I could keep going but hopefully this will clarify exactly what I am saying and how I drew the conclusions I did. When I studied criminal justice I grew fond of the take cultural criminology had simply because it centered on how the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action. Passing a law to make something illegal does not making the now illegal action immoral in any way and when you criminalize the norms of a culture you disproportionately target a demographic. Yeah, I do think 'black culture glorifies crime' which is a racial take but I hold that view in context to aspects of that culture being made criminal. I honestly dislike the position that segregation is in the past and holds no bearing on present day conversations on systemic racism and see it as a step in the wrong direction. I don't think any part of my beliefs are unreasonable or hateful and if anyone thinks they are I am more than open to hearing why.

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

I think it would be much more beneficial if you could explain it rather succinctly and try to keep yourself to maybe like 2 sentences or 50 words to make your point actually coherent.

I think I should separate what I was trying to say on discord from what my beliefs are. I was kinda rambling about both in this thread.

Before where Ozy's chat log started as simply as I could say it I said that some things attributed as systemic racism are cultural in nature. Anyone with access to the discord should be able to search it and find the quote easily enough.
I spoke about multiple racial stereotypes referencing cultural drives to their origins specifically to highlight how behaviors were not racial. My opinion is that racism holds the belief that a literal race of people is born with detrimental qualities which I find absurd (although I am on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture fence.) I spoke about disproportionate racial distributions in the NBA to underscore the point in a non-derogatorily context pointing out that nobody is calling the NBA racist and that cultural drives push members of a culture to excel in sports rather than racial qualities.

For what I believe something I have been chewing on over the last year is if laws targeting 'black culture' exist to target race or if they exist to target the culture. I feel it is a small but very significant difference in intention. I brought up segregation as an example to how laws can make non-immoral behavior illegal because I felt my point was being construed as 'Black culture leads to immoral behavior.' For one of the more overt modern day examples consider the ongoing fight of schools making wearing du-rags against policy. There is nothing intrinsically 'racial' about a du-rag. But culturally it overtly disproportionately targets African American men over any other demographic. As simply as I can say it in a natural society laws/rules are created to establish formal punishments for taboos while in our society we have laws and rules punishing norms in a targeted way which I see as attributed as systemic racism. Deconstructing how and why this is done is important to understanding what the problem actually is without cutting to some useless thought process of 'Theres a room of old racist white people to blame.' Creating laws and punishments that target a demographic is absolutely a thing (although as I said I have been wondering for some time if the intention is racial or cultural)

A substantial amount of my thoughts on this matter are not original. If you are interested here is a UN publication with lots of solid data: https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp...isparities.pdf
Here is a study by the ACLU titled "RACIALLY TARGETED ARRESTS IN THE ERA OF MARIJUANA REFORM" which pretty overtly outlines disparity of enforcement. https://www.aclu.org/report/tale-two...rijuana-reform
Here is multiple study's by the united states sentencing commission that flatly finds "Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing." https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing

Theres truckloads of data highlighting that even without targeted laws in practice African Americans and Men get hit harder in both sentencing as well as being charged with what crimes. I feel like thats a point everyone can accept. To take it a step further there is also tons of data on laws existing that seem to target African Americans (although once again, I would point out they are cultural in nature and not saying 'X color of skin = this action') We like to think that segregation ended but I just see it as less overt now. If you are interested here is an article that outlines what and how laws are used to suppress voting for racial demographics: https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...can-democracy/
And here is a publication from the Vera Institute of Justice essentially taking the position I regurgitated: https://www.vera.org/downloads/publi...isparities.pdf
Its key takeaway spells it out pretty plainly "Racial disparities in the criminal justice system are no accident, but rather are rooted in a history of oppression and discriminatory decision making that have deliberately targeted black people and helped create an inaccurate picture of crime that deceptively links them with criminality."
"Discriminatory criminal justice policies and practices have historically and unjustifiably targeted black people since the Reconstruction Era, including Black Codes, vagrancy laws, and convict leasing, all of which were used to continue post-slavery control over newly-freed people."

I could keep going but hopefully this will clarify exactly what I am saying and how I drew the conclusions I did. When I studied criminal justice I grew fond of the take cultural criminology had simply because it centered on how the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action. Passing a law to make something illegal does not making the now illegal action immoral in any way and when you criminalize the norms of a culture you disproportionately target a demographic. Yeah, I do think 'black culture glorifies crime' which is a racial take but I hold that view in context to aspects of that culture being made criminal. I honestly dislike the position that segregation is in the past and holds no bearing on present day conversations on systemic racism and see it as a step in the wrong direction. I don't think any part of my beliefs are unreasonable or hateful and if anyone thinks they are I am more than open to hearing why.

I have not responded or kept up with the thread because I went out to work on an oil rig in New Mexico. I will try to take some time and more clearly explain my thoughts when I have time but I am hurting for sleep right now. I am sure with a bit of time I can convey my points without it getting muddled to hell and I am sure the reason they were is that I had such difficulty even looking at this situation or thread sober. It’s effecting me much more than it should and spilling into my work this week but finally talking about it has helped.

I will say I feel MU and the MU moderation team should be looked at as separate things in my situation and even if the moderators have a highly questionable culture of moderation and make bad calls it does not mean MU is not a good community. Just look at how shitty America’s leaders are but it’s still a pretty nice place to visit. The championships and the articles there are excellent for the global community and tons of the people there are genuinely awesome.

I have not responded or kept up with the thread because I went out to work on an oil rig in New Mexico. I will try to take some time and more clearly explain my thoughts when I have time but I am hurting for sleep right now. I am sure with a bit of time I can convey my points without it getting muddled to hell and I am sure the reason they were is that I had such difficulty even looking at this situation or thread sober. It’s effecting me much more than it should and spilling into my work this week but finally talking about it has helped.

I will say I feel MU and the MU moderation team should be looked at as separate things in my situation and even if the moderators have a highly questionable culture of moderation and make bad calls it does not mean MU is not a good community. Just look at how shitty America’s leaders are but it’s still a pretty nice place to visit. The championships and the articles there are excellent for the global community and tons of the people there are genuinely awesome.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944432]Those racist laws are no longer a thing. Segregation law is a law of the past. How do they affect [B]today[/B]?

And to be safe, it was supposed to address #18, #19, #20 - correct?[/QUOTE]

I did not write it in response to those posts but yes, I felt my position was not understood.

In relation to how it effects us today its an issue of systemic racism. How the systems that govern how society functions favor races on a basic level. You should differentiate what objectively exists vs my world view given this conversation is all about my world view but as to what objectively exists you can google it easy enough. In practice my understanding is that its exercised within sentencing.

[url]https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/ylr123&div=4&id=&page=[/url]
Decent point on the subject although its on the federal level while atrocities are more commonly committed on the state level.

You could also just look at the 'Guilty of being poor' movement and everything thats focused on within our society. If you want to take a deep dive into either issue might be worth a separate topic but these are very valid issues that genuinely exist in American society now and not 60 years ago.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

Those racist laws are no longer a thing. Segregation law is a law of the past. How do they affect today?

And to be safe, it was supposed to address #18, #19, #20 - correct?

I did not write it in response to those posts but yes, I felt my position was not understood.

In relation to how it effects us today its an issue of systemic racism. How the systems that govern how society functions favor races on a basic level. You should differentiate what objectively exists vs my world view given this conversation is all about my world view but as to what objectively exists you can google it easy enough. In practice my understanding is that its exercised within sentencing.

https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPa...iv=4&id=&page=
Decent point on the subject although its on the federal level while atrocities are more commonly committed on the state level.

You could also just look at the 'Guilty of being poor' movement and everything thats focused on within our society. If you want to take a deep dive into either issue might be worth a separate topic but these are very valid issues that genuinely exist in American society now and not 60 years ago.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944430]I still don't see how a law from 60 years ago affects the prison populations today.

Don't you really see how many inferences one has to make to even attempt to follow your thoughts process? Either that or I'm more dumb than I ever realized.

I'm sorry that my best efforts of advising to speak understandably fell on deaf ears.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I have trouble in some respects with conveying how I made connections.

Racist people made laws making natural behavior criminal for specific races
Natural behavior forced to be criminal is not immoral or unethical
The example of segregation outlines that overtly
My words in MU debate were about how crime culture results in a measurable disparity in racial distribution of prison populations
This is more understandable as not racist when you consider its resulting from laws targeting cultural of predominate racial distributions
It is logical to recognize that such laws did not go from overtly existing to not existing at all

Sorry if I am terrible at connecting thoughts sometimes. Maybe its not great that I spend so much time in my own head and translating between the things I think and how to understand how I think can be a bit much. Hopefully that makes the connection

Originally Posted by OzyWho

I still don't see how a law from 60 years ago affects the prison populations today.

Don't you really see how many inferences one has to make to even attempt to follow your thoughts process? Either that or I'm more dumb than I ever realized.

I'm sorry that my best efforts of advising to speak understandably fell on deaf ears.

Yeah. I have trouble in some respects with conveying how I made connections.

Racist people made laws making natural behavior criminal for specific races
Natural behavior forced to be criminal is not immoral or unethical
The example of segregation outlines that overtly
My words in MU debate were about how crime culture results in a measurable disparity in racial distribution of prison populations
This is more understandable as not racist when you consider its resulting from laws targeting cultural of predominate racial distributions
It is logical to recognize that such laws did not go from overtly existing to not existing at all

Sorry if I am terrible at connecting thoughts sometimes. Maybe its not great that I spend so much time in my own head and translating between the things I think and how to understand how I think can be a bit much. Hopefully that makes the connection

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944421]I hope your confusion about my confusion will motivate you to speak more understandable in the future. Nobody is out to get you.

Just to be clear, that mention of a law that was 60 years ago - is it supposed to address anything that MM or Oberon or oops said? As far as I understand, they're addressing the "black culture makes you go to prison" argument? I don't think a law from 60 years ago is relevant if so.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I do not understand the relevance of making my point look less rational based on the time line but when speaking about a concept of systemic racism and referencing how laws were weaponized against a race within a society it is relevant. Shift the level of how overtly its used and you get a recipe for disparity in prison populations.

Put that in context to my statements and my voiced position can be better understood. Unless you believe racism in laws went from obligating who someone could date or what pubic drinking fountain they could use to not existing at all its logical there was some level of de-escalation and such laws still exist that are not... however old it takes to invalidate my point.

I am not sure if gaslighting me makes MU look better but I can say I do not appreciate it. I acknowledge my issues with mental health but flatly stating inappropriate action was taken against me by a community does not equate to irrational paranoia and framing it as such is not classy. Be careful with crossing that line man. Although I do view you as a friend if you choose to keep going down that road I doubt its going to look good for either you or MU. I can accept that my judgment is clouded by emotion but I do not think any reasonable mind would say I got a fair shake in line with community guidelines.

Refusing to give me the email to make an appeal was intentional
Ignoring a rule that prevents carrying punishments from their debate chat into other areas of the site was intentional
Saying they 'thought I was a troll' does not add up given my history as a member making guides and coordinating cross community events
Shutting down community discussions while saying its up to me to talk to them was some two faced shit
Ignoring everything I said to them and just quoting my words out of context while refusing to give me the chat log prevented me from even having grounds for a fair appeal

At the end of the day Perma banning me from everything with years of being a good standing member while shutting down conversation on the issue from myself to them or from the community on the subject and preventing an appeal reflects bias. If we carry your logic forward and I am just a paranoid loony who is being told what he wants to hear by multiple communities and nothing is wrong what justifies any one of those individual actions by MU?

Originally Posted by OzyWho

I hope your confusion about my confusion will motivate you to speak more understandable in the future. Nobody is out to get you.

Just to be clear, that mention of a law that was 60 years ago - is it supposed to address anything that MM or Oberon or oops said? As far as I understand, they're addressing the "black culture makes you go to prison" argument? I don't think a law from 60 years ago is relevant if so.

Yeah. I do not understand the relevance of making my point look less rational based on the time line but when speaking about a concept of systemic racism and referencing how laws were weaponized against a race within a society it is relevant. Shift the level of how overtly its used and you get a recipe for disparity in prison populations.

Put that in context to my statements and my voiced position can be better understood. Unless you believe racism in laws went from obligating who someone could date or what pubic drinking fountain they could use to not existing at all its logical there was some level of de-escalation and such laws still exist that are not... however old it takes to invalidate my point.

I am not sure if gaslighting me makes MU look better but I can say I do not appreciate it. I acknowledge my issues with mental health but flatly stating inappropriate action was taken against me by a community does not equate to irrational paranoia and framing it as such is not classy. Be careful with crossing that line man. Although I do view you as a friend if you choose to keep going down that road I doubt its going to look good for either you or MU. I can accept that my judgment is clouded by emotion but I do not think any reasonable mind would say I got a fair shake in line with community guidelines.

Refusing to give me the email to make an appeal was intentional
Ignoring a rule that prevents carrying punishments from their debate chat into other areas of the site was intentional
Saying they 'thought I was a troll' does not add up given my history as a member making guides and coordinating cross community events
Shutting down community discussions while saying its up to me to talk to them was some two faced shit
Ignoring everything I said to them and just quoting my words out of context while refusing to give me the chat log prevented me from even having grounds for a fair appeal

At the end of the day Perma banning me from everything with years of being a good standing member while shutting down conversation on the issue from myself to them or from the community on the subject and preventing an appeal reflects bias. If we carry your logic forward and I am just a paranoid loony who is being told what he wants to hear by multiple communities and nothing is wrong what justifies any one of those individual actions by MU?

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944416]By now I think it should be clear that it's your fault?

Whenever there's a misinterpretation, I feel like it's the responsibility of the one talking to prevent that. That's my general take that some agree and others disagree. But in this scenario a large majority seemed to not get you, even here on SC2Mafia. Yes? Idk because it's still too complicated all for me.

I wish to point you towards [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48622-Communicating-is-tough?p=924371&viewfull=1#post924371"]Importance of Simplification[/URL], again.
Especially:
[B]Sometimes we inadvertently write sentences that can be interpreted in more than one way. When something's written in simple manner, there's less chance for ambiguity.[/B]

Tbh, I personally would appreciate if you provided specific examples to go along with your future statements. Like "The most overt example is segregation." is not a specific example. For all I know you're pulling it out of your rear.
Or this "When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral." - it literally doesn't tell me anything and idk wtf you're talking about.
Similarly to how in your "debate" you link to a study link but fail to give any form of summary of how you came to your inference. How's anyone to take it serious and not nefarious? Even now idk how a study that speaks about "Social categorization occurs spontaneously, without much thought to our part" to you doing a social categorization yourself.

While on the topic, [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48228-Double-Standards-in-Racism-and-Sexism?p=919058&viewfull=1#post919058"]pulling a Jordan Peterson[/URL] doesn't give you credibility either. It loses you it.

I just can't stress the importance of speaking understandable enough.[/QUOTE]

Uhh.. I am not even sure where to start with this one.

Segregation laws were laws making it criminal to do basic stuff. Like "Being black and dating a white woman"

My point that calling that a crime does not make the individual immoral but rather the system is pretty clear. I can provide specific examples but I feel like its kinda stupid for me to do so. I am making a very valid and clear position here about how saying something is a crime does not mean its derogatory to the individual while also pointing out that my argument was not hateful to a racial group simply because I was arguing that systemic racism created through laws was itself immoral.

If you would like I could go grab some law books and dig some stuff up for you but honestly.. just.. wtf dude? I do not understand why you keep reframing the issue as irrational or that the entirety of the MU community supports it. If its a big deal to you I can PM you on the subject in a few weeks when I am back from work but I think there is a very real issue going on here.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

By now I think it should be clear that it's your fault?

Whenever there's a misinterpretation, I feel like it's the responsibility of the one talking to prevent that. That's my general take that some agree and others disagree. But in this scenario a large majority seemed to not get you, even here on SC2Mafia. Yes? Idk because it's still too complicated all for me.

I wish to point you towards Importance of Simplification, again.
Especially:
Sometimes we inadvertently write sentences that can be interpreted in more than one way. When something's written in simple manner, there's less chance for ambiguity.

Tbh, I personally would appreciate if you provided specific examples to go along with your future statements. Like "The most overt example is segregation." is not a specific example. For all I know you're pulling it out of your rear.
Or this "When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral." - it literally doesn't tell me anything and idk wtf you're talking about.
Similarly to how in your "debate" you link to a study link but fail to give any form of summary of how you came to your inference. How's anyone to take it serious and not nefarious? Even now idk how a study that speaks about "Social categorization occurs spontaneously, without much thought to our part" to you doing a social categorization yourself.

While on the topic, pulling a Jordan Peterson doesn't give you credibility either. It loses you it.

I just can't stress the importance of speaking understandable enough.

Uhh.. I am not even sure where to start with this one.

Segregation laws were laws making it criminal to do basic stuff. Like "Being black and dating a white woman"

My point that calling that a crime does not make the individual immoral but rather the system is pretty clear. I can provide specific examples but I feel like its kinda stupid for me to do so. I am making a very valid and clear position here about how saying something is a crime does not mean its derogatory to the individual while also pointing out that my argument was not hateful to a racial group simply because I was arguing that systemic racism created through laws was itself immoral.

If you would like I could go grab some law books and dig some stuff up for you but honestly.. just.. wtf dude? I do not understand why you keep reframing the issue as irrational or that the entirety of the MU community supports it. If its a big deal to you I can PM you on the subject in a few weeks when I am back from work but I think there is a very real issue going on here.

Something that keeps getting misinterpreted about the point I made is the idea of what a crime is.

It is one thing to say a culture causes people to do a crime- like rob a store or sell drugs

It is something totally different to say laws were created that made normal behaviors a crime. In sociology there are Norms, Taboos and Laws. Naturally Laws are made to enforce punishments on behaviors that are taboo but when they are instead enforced on norms it does not equate crime with immoral or unethical behavior. The most overt example is segregation.

Cultural criminology is an entire field of study that deals with what a 'crime' means to the individual. When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral.

Probably the wrong place to say this but I feel like people are looking at my statements and thinking I am suggesting something in individuals culture make them more likely to have immoral or unethical behavior which is just not the case.

I feel a little better after making this thread. Something I realized is that more than access to a game or a community what I really felt I lost when I was banned was my credibility. I think thats why it feels a little better to talk about it. MU did ban me but they very intentionally have shut down conversation on the issue while also making me look like something I consider the most reprehensible beliefs that exist. It made me question how far gone I am and if I am something I hate on a basic level.

Its been nice to see how many people and communities have reached out to me but I really do feel like something is very wrong within the mafia community. The amount of people who have expressed overt fear of even being seen to say something negative about MU is pretty crazy. The majority of the conversations I have start with people requesting I never mention their name with their thoughts. Its an intentional culture of fear mongering which is just stupid. This is a video game people play to relax and meet friends but somehow they created a power structure and weaponized it to the point most people are afraid to even publicly say when they think they made a poor decision. Thats pretty fucking crazy on a very basic level and acting like it is normal is itself wrong.

I don't think anything will change in my situation. But something should change in how the global community is afraid to even speak about the site that hosts the championships.

If anyone from MU ever reads this as a human being I would like to convey a very sincere fuck you. Labeling someone a racist without giving a fuck if they are or not is really shitty. Shutting down community discussion on the issue while pretending you are following established rules is disgusting. Making your community afraid to even talk about your judgement as a moderator of a video game is ridiculous and the community deserves better.

Something that keeps getting misinterpreted about the point I made is the idea of what a crime is.

It is one thing to say a culture causes people to do a crime- like rob a store or sell drugs

It is something totally different to say laws were created that made normal behaviors a crime. In sociology there are Norms, Taboos and Laws. Naturally Laws are made to enforce punishments on behaviors that are taboo but when they are instead enforced on norms it does not equate crime with immoral or unethical behavior. The most overt example is segregation.

Cultural criminology is an entire field of study that deals with what a 'crime' means to the individual. When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral.

Probably the wrong place to say this but I feel like people are looking at my statements and thinking I am suggesting something in individuals culture make them more likely to have immoral or unethical behavior which is just not the case.

I feel a little better after making this thread. Something I realized is that more than access to a game or a community what I really felt I lost when I was banned was my credibility. I think thats why it feels a little better to talk about it. MU did ban me but they very intentionally have shut down conversation on the issue while also making me look like something I consider the most reprehensible beliefs that exist. It made me question how far gone I am and if I am something I hate on a basic level.

Its been nice to see how many people and communities have reached out to me but I really do feel like something is very wrong within the mafia community. The amount of people who have expressed overt fear of even being seen to say something negative about MU is pretty crazy. The majority of the conversations I have start with people requesting I never mention their name with their thoughts. Its an intentional culture of fear mongering which is just stupid. This is a video game people play to relax and meet friends but somehow they created a power structure and weaponized it to the point most people are afraid to even publicly say when they think they made a poor decision. Thats pretty fucking crazy on a very basic level and acting like it is normal is itself wrong.

I don't think anything will change in my situation. But something should change in how the global community is afraid to even speak about the site that hosts the championships.

If anyone from MU ever reads this as a human being I would like to convey a very sincere fuck you. Labeling someone a racist without giving a fuck if they are or not is really shitty. Shutting down community discussion on the issue while pretending you are following established rules is disgusting. Making your community afraid to even talk about your judgement as a moderator of a video game is ridiculous and the community deserves better.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944388]I mean, if you wish I can send you from when [url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41692593[/url] was posted like over 36h earlier. But it talked about Pearson, books, information, voting, politics. I really don't see the relevance though.

You did say [I]"I desperately need to just go to sleep at this point, but I feel the need to point out how religions and power structures are two very different things"[/I] just before you left in that convo. But it's like 26 hours earlier and the only related on the topic post.
I really feel like the convo that was 26-36h before when this convo started is an entirely different one.[/QUOTE]

I was specifically looking for the statements they grabbed out of context. Although the ignored my point on Caucasian Europeans they grabbed every mention of a racial stereotype to call me a racist. I was exhausted and very drunk but I very specifically remember mentioning the stereotypes in the context of them not being racial but cultural in nature and flatly saying so immediately before or after the statement.

Although I do not think it really matters. As frustrating as it is I just do not think they have any intention of looking at the situation. In my opinion calling someone a racist is the worst thing you can say about someone short of a pedophile or a rapist. Its not about a video game or a community to me. Regardless of if I am ignorant, insensitive or flatly wrong I held that conversation in good faith in the area it was suppose to be held. They circumvented rules established to prevent punishments from carrying over to other parts of the site and I went from having 0 infractions to being permabanned without a single warning.

If the issue was that they truly thought I was a racist it could be resolved but they just flatly do not give a shit. One thing I have been obsessing over is why. I never had any personal problems with any of them. It just does not make sense to me why they intentionally avoided giving me access to the [email]muheadmod@gmail.com[/email] email while shutting down the communities discussion of the issue and telling them I had access to it.

I get that communities can self regulate as they see fit but MU has a duty to the global community because they host the championship. They should be held to a standard in my opinion.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

I mean, if you wish I can send you from when https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41692593 was posted like over 36h earlier. But it talked about Pearson, books, information, voting, politics. I really don't see the relevance though.

You did say "I desperately need to just go to sleep at this point, but I feel the need to point out how religions and power structures are two very different things" just before you left in that convo. But it's like 26 hours earlier and the only related on the topic post.
I really feel like the convo that was 26-36h before when this convo started is an entirely different one.

I was specifically looking for the statements they grabbed out of context. Although the ignored my point on Caucasian Europeans they grabbed every mention of a racial stereotype to call me a racist. I was exhausted and very drunk but I very specifically remember mentioning the stereotypes in the context of them not being racial but cultural in nature and flatly saying so immediately before or after the statement.

Although I do not think it really matters. As frustrating as it is I just do not think they have any intention of looking at the situation. In my opinion calling someone a racist is the worst thing you can say about someone short of a pedophile or a rapist. Its not about a video game or a community to me. Regardless of if I am ignorant, insensitive or flatly wrong I held that conversation in good faith in the area it was suppose to be held. They circumvented rules established to prevent punishments from carrying over to other parts of the site and I went from having 0 infractions to being permabanned without a single warning.

If the issue was that they truly thought I was a racist it could be resolved but they just flatly do not give a shit. One thing I have been obsessing over is why. I never had any personal problems with any of them. It just does not make sense to me why they intentionally avoided giving me access to the muheadmod@gmail.com email while shutting down the communities discussion of the issue and telling them I had access to it.

I get that communities can self regulate as they see fit but MU has a duty to the global community because they host the championship. They should be held to a standard in my opinion.

[QUOTE=rumox;944383]i get what you were saying and i get why they got triggered. what i am saying next is based on shit happening half a world away, same shit but different.

imo the thing that exacerbates incarceration isn't black culture in large (or any races culture), it's just straight up being poor with no education which puts people in positions where they have to resort to thuggery. it just so happens black people are disproportionately more poor so they get blasted into the limelight. i see this on basically a decade cycle because of my towns economic booms/recession (industrial town, currently "booming" due to a hydrogen plant being constructed). When it's doing bad and rent is cheap, scum of all races come crawling out of the wood works.[/QUOTE]

I do agree with you. Opportunity is a large driving factor for any individual. I feel like it would be a topic for serious discussion/debate. Although our mods actually use their brains I am not sure about holding a conversation on systemic racism in the FM section of the forum.

Originally Posted by rumox

i get what you were saying and i get why they got triggered. what i am saying next is based on shit happening half a world away, same shit but different.

imo the thing that exacerbates incarceration isn't black culture in large (or any races culture), it's just straight up being poor with no education which puts people in positions where they have to resort to thuggery. it just so happens black people are disproportionately more poor so they get blasted into the limelight. i see this on basically a decade cycle because of my towns economic booms/recession (industrial town, currently "booming" due to a hydrogen plant being constructed). When it's doing bad and rent is cheap, scum of all races come crawling out of the wood works.

I do agree with you. Opportunity is a large driving factor for any individual. I feel like it would be a topic for serious discussion/debate. Although our mods actually use their brains I am not sure about holding a conversation on systemic racism in the FM section of the forum.

Looks like there was a rule specifically stating you could not kick someone from the discord for what happens in the debate channel at the time of my ban. Maybe I should have focused that more given Dyachei likes to act like a robot.

Looks like there was a rule specifically stating you could not kick someone from the discord for what happens in the debate channel at the time of my ban. Maybe I should have focused that more given Dyachei likes to act like a robot.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;944373]I could have told you that beforehand. Ohh wait.. I did. :blink1:
But tbh, this makes sense for their ever-lasting "zero tolerance on bigotry".

But was it bigotry though? Idk. I never bothered to look into it due to how incomprehensible the text is for me personally. But a thing of note here is that everyone who bothered commenting on it agreed that it was. Everyone except me and SJ - and I didn't even read.[/QUOTE]

"I was banned under a zero tolerance*policy for racism and bigotry.
For a statement to be racist it must be prejudiced or hateful towards*a race
[02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
Lower brackets of socioeconomic status in Europe for Caucations hold every bit as much of a ratio in prison as american jails do for African Americans

[02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
Its not racial, Its cultural*

My statements*were taken as hateful towards*African Americans but you can clearly see here its*not a racial openion. I very flatly say "Its not racial, its cultural." I was cut off while typing but was about to post drunken ramblings on how systemic racism was created by laws being passed which targeted African Americans. To say that does not exist is to say that segregation never happened and that the entire field of cultural criminology is hateful.
For a statement*to be bigotry*it must be obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief or opinion. Any time I enter a discussion I am open to changing my view (which is the entire point of having it in the first place)
[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
Am I wrong? If I am please tell me why

[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
I am making points with reasoning

[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
I would like to see some reasoning to why my points should be invalidated

This is clearly reflected in chat. I genuinely was asking for feedback and interacting in a channel designated for such discussions. I did so in good faith and in the belief I was acting within the rules and regulations of the community and had no intention of spreading hate.
I would again ask you to consider my ban. I do not understand why I was treated as a 'troll' and intentionally withheld access to this chat or why I have not been afforded*the opportunity to speak in my defence sense its been acknowledged*that I am not if there is no bias but I strongly believe the actions taken against me are not in line with the letter or the spirit of your rules. I am not asking for any favors, I am only asking you to follow the established process and finally give me an appeal. I do not believe its possible to maintain that my statements were hateful unless you take them without regard*for context. Even if you feel my words are terrible I am at worst very ignorant and not hateful or bigoted.
R/S
Helz"

Sent that. The chat log you gave started mid way though the conversation but I appreciate it. Maybe I have lost more marbles than I thought if everyone sees my position as hateful but I dont. I genuinely do not see how a good faith examination of the situation can draw that conclusion though.

And if I really am just an ignorant un-woke racist why shut down conversation on the subject to the community? Why intentionally avoid giving me an email to appeal or try to write me off as a troll? If I am a racist and they are correct they should be justified in their actions and not ashamed to speak on the subject.

I guess what finally drove me to make this thread is that I am tired of loosing sleep on the subject. I can not play a game of mafia or work on my guide without getting a sick fucked up feeling and getting upset. One of my many flaws as a person is that I never let things go and this is a much bigger deal to me than it should be. Im honestly going to keep fucking with this until the day I die on principal and my life is worse off for it being a thing.

I do appreciate you spending a bit of time on the issue though. The absolute disregard and apathy show by the MU mods disgusts me and I can not help but wonder how many other people have been railroaded like this. If I am not genuinely being treated differently their moderation culture is really fucked up. At the end of the day mods are not the community, they just exist to protect the community and although I love many respects of MU that attitude is something that has kept me out of it.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

I could have told you that beforehand. Ohh wait.. I did.
But tbh, this makes sense for their ever-lasting "zero tolerance on bigotry".

But was it bigotry though? Idk. I never bothered to look into it due to how incomprehensible the text is for me personally. But a thing of note here is that everyone who bothered commenting on it agreed that it was. Everyone except me and SJ - and I didn't even read.

"I was banned under a zero tolerance*policy for racism and bigotry.
For a statement to be racist it must be prejudiced or hateful towards*a race
[02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
Lower brackets of socioeconomic status in Europe for Caucations hold every bit as much of a ratio in prison as american jails do for African Americans

[02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
Its not racial, Its cultural*

My statements*were taken as hateful towards*African Americans but you can clearly see here its*not a racial openion. I very flatly say "Its not racial, its cultural." I was cut off while typing but was about to post drunken ramblings on how systemic racism was created by laws being passed which targeted African Americans. To say that does not exist is to say that segregation never happened and that the entire field of cultural criminology is hateful.
For a statement*to be bigotry*it must be obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief or opinion. Any time I enter a discussion I am open to changing my view (which is the entire point of having it in the first place)
[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
Am I wrong? If I am please tell me why

[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
I am making points with reasoning

[02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
I would like to see some reasoning to why my points should be invalidated

This is clearly reflected in chat. I genuinely was asking for feedback and interacting in a channel designated for such discussions. I did so in good faith and in the belief I was acting within the rules and regulations of the community and had no intention of spreading hate.
I would again ask you to consider my ban. I do not understand why I was treated as a 'troll' and intentionally withheld access to this chat or why I have not been afforded*the opportunity to speak in my defence sense its been acknowledged*that I am not if there is no bias but I strongly believe the actions taken against me are not in line with the letter or the spirit of your rules. I am not asking for any favors, I am only asking you to follow the established process and finally give me an appeal. I do not believe its possible to maintain that my statements were hateful unless you take them without regard*for context. Even if you feel my words are terrible I am at worst very ignorant and not hateful or bigoted.
R/S
Helz"

Sent that. The chat log you gave started mid way though the conversation but I appreciate it. Maybe I have lost more marbles than I thought if everyone sees my position as hateful but I dont. I genuinely do not see how a good faith examination of the situation can draw that conclusion though.

And if I really am just an ignorant un-woke racist why shut down conversation on the subject to the community? Why intentionally avoid giving me an email to appeal or try to write me off as a troll? If I am a racist and they are correct they should be justified in their actions and not ashamed to speak on the subject.

I guess what finally drove me to make this thread is that I am tired of loosing sleep on the subject. I can not play a game of mafia or work on my guide without getting a sick fucked up feeling and getting upset. One of my many flaws as a person is that I never let things go and this is a much bigger deal to me than it should be. Im honestly going to keep fucking with this until the day I die on principal and my life is worse off for it being a thing.

I do appreciate you spending a bit of time on the issue though. The absolute disregard and apathy show by the MU mods disgusts me and I can not help but wonder how many other people have been railroaded like this. If I am not genuinely being treated differently their moderation culture is really fucked up. At the end of the day mods are not the community, they just exist to protect the community and although I love many respects of MU that attitude is something that has kept me out of it.

I guess that came out half ass coherent. Still so pissed off about it I can't so much as think about signing up for a game without obsessing over the issue

-edit
for context that screen shot was part of my email to them. They had nothing to say.

I guess that came out half ass coherent. Still so pissed off about it I can't so much as think about signing up for a game without obsessing over the issue

-edit
for context that screen shot was part of my email to them. They had nothing to say.

Its been a while and I probably should have made this thread long ago. I honestly didn't simply because I believed the MU staff wanted the issue to die from public sight before giving me an appeal but it looks like they just have no intention of ever giving me an appeal.

I was perma-banned in the middle of a conversation in the discord of MU. A few things are of note:

-I was in the Serious discussion / Debate section of the discord (which is the appropriate place to have the discussion)
-In years as a member of their site I never once got an infraction (although the community voiced that they assumed this is taken into consideration Dyachei flatly said they give no consideration to prior conduct)
-There was no warning of any kind from moderators or so much as a hint that the conversation was considered a breach of their rules
-The conversation was driven into a taboo subject intentionally by moderators and other members
-I had to report myself to request an appeal and I was flatly denied without any consideration. At this point I overtly voiced I had no access to any other method of communication and was not given the MU email to appeal (as their established community guidelines suggest is their norm)
-When I pointed out I had no access to the conversation log and they were taking my statements out of context my communications were also ignored
-After the fact conversations on the issue by the community were cut off. Multiple citing the banned (me) should/can email the moderators to discuss the issue. I then reported myself again saying if I have that right I would like to exercise it and that was straight up ignored.
-Superjack then argued with them enough on the issue they finally gave him the email address to give to me (muheadmod@gmail.com) and when I emailed them and explained my position I was told "We aren’t interested in discussing your opinions further. It’s about people being offended by what you’re saying and what their interpretation of your words is, not what your intention behind the words may be."
-I then pointed out how the definition of racism is 'prejudiced or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group', how in multiple respects this definition does not fit even given their own responses and how if their ban qualifications are 'bigoted or racist' and I am neither that the punishment should not apply. I never got a response
-Ossie spoke with them on my behalf and although I was not allowed to speak in my defense or given any context to the statements they declared racist they did admit to intentionally denying me an appeal because they thought I was a troll. I do not see how that is possible given I wrote articles for MU ([url]https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/3561-8-Macro-Meta-Crunching-%28by-Helz%29[/url]) and had worked with them to establish cross community games with 0 infractions over many years but I suppose they had to justify their behavior somehow.
-At this point I have probably asked them 10+ times if I would be allowed to publish that article I have been working on for years with no response which is just petty. Simply having some balls and saying no is something I could at least respect rather than waiting to see how good it is before voicing some moral / ethical grounds.

I should have made this thread a long time ago. I honestly just thought the only thing they gave a shit about was saving face and if I didn't I would have a better shot at getting fair treatment. To this day every point I have made has been flatly disregarded. I have not been allowed to speak in my defense and I was very intentionally not given the ability to do so even though it was their justification for closing conversations with the community. The point I was banned discussing was that racial stereotypes are cultural in nature and that racist individuals targeted African American culture with laws to create systemic racism. There is nothing hateful in this view and at best I am ignorant which objectively means I am not racist by definition and their perma-ban is inappropriate.

I will also point out Amy has a long standing reputation within the global community for being heavy handed and taking inappropriate moderation actions. It was a sick level of comical to talk about my situation to other communities and hear over and over "I bet that was Amy' without mentioning any names or even knowing it was Amy who pushed my perma-ban through.

All I can really say is this:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28114[/ATTACH]
I could accept being denied on an appeal but not being given even the context to what I am accused of or so much as the email-address to make an appeal is pretty fucked up. My mind is not gone yet and I would genuinely like the opportunity to represent our community before that happens. As the host of a global competition they are equally held accountable to the global community and sandbagging people at will is just a reflection of overt corruption.

All that said- I would appreciate either poking them to just follow their established process or telling me I am genuinely wrong so I can stop loosing sleep over this issue. I am really sick of feeling like shit over this and its not even about a video game.

Its been a while and I probably should have made this thread long ago. I honestly didn't simply because I believed the MU staff wanted the issue to die from public sight before giving me an appeal but it looks like they just have no intention of ever giving me an appeal.

I was perma-banned in the middle of a conversation in the discord of MU. A few things are of note:

-I was in the Serious discussion / Debate section of the discord (which is the appropriate place to have the discussion)
-In years as a member of their site I never once got an infraction (although the community voiced that they assumed this is taken into consideration Dyachei flatly said they give no consideration to prior conduct)
-There was no warning of any kind from moderators or so much as a hint that the conversation was considered a breach of their rules
-The conversation was driven into a taboo subject intentionally by moderators and other members
-I had to report myself to request an appeal and I was flatly denied without any consideration. At this point I overtly voiced I had no access to any other method of communication and was not given the MU email to appeal (as their established community guidelines suggest is their norm)
-When I pointed out I had no access to the conversation log and they were taking my statements out of context my communications were also ignored
-After the fact conversations on the issue by the community were cut off. Multiple citing the banned (me) should/can email the moderators to discuss the issue. I then reported myself again saying if I have that right I would like to exercise it and that was straight up ignored.
-Superjack then argued with them enough on the issue they finally gave him the email address to give to me (muheadmod@gmail.com) and when I emailed them and explained my position I was told "We aren’t interested in discussing your opinions further. It’s about people being offended by what you’re saying and what their interpretation of your words is, not what your intention behind the words may be."
-I then pointed out how the definition of racism is 'prejudiced or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group', how in multiple respects this definition does not fit even given their own responses and how if their ban qualifications are 'bigoted or racist' and I am neither that the punishment should not apply. I never got a response
-Ossie spoke with them on my behalf and although I was not allowed to speak in my defense or given any context to the statements they declared racist they did admit to intentionally denying me an appeal because they thought I was a troll. I do not see how that is possible given I wrote articles for MU (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...-%28by-Helz%29) and had worked with them to establish cross community games with 0 infractions over many years but I suppose they had to justify their behavior somehow.
-At this point I have probably asked them 10+ times if I would be allowed to publish that article I have been working on for years with no response which is just petty. Simply having some balls and saying no is something I could at least respect rather than waiting to see how good it is before voicing some moral / ethical grounds.

I should have made this thread a long time ago. I honestly just thought the only thing they gave a shit about was saving face and if I didn't I would have a better shot at getting fair treatment. To this day every point I have made has been flatly disregarded. I have not been allowed to speak in my defense and I was very intentionally not given the ability to do so even though it was their justification for closing conversations with the community. The point I was banned discussing was that racial stereotypes are cultural in nature and that racist individuals targeted African American culture with laws to create systemic racism. There is nothing hateful in this view and at best I am ignorant which objectively means I am not racist by definition and their perma-ban is inappropriate.

I will also point out Amy has a long standing reputation within the global community for being heavy handed and taking inappropriate moderation actions. It was a sick level of comical to talk about my situation to other communities and hear over and over "I bet that was Amy' without mentioning any names or even knowing it was Amy who pushed my perma-ban through.

All I can really say is this:

I could accept being denied on an appeal but not being given even the context to what I am accused of or so much as the email-address to make an appeal is pretty fucked up. My mind is not gone yet and I would genuinely like the opportunity to represent our community before that happens. As the host of a global competition they are equally held accountable to the global community and sandbagging people at will is just a reflection of overt corruption.

All that said- I would appreciate either poking them to just follow their established process or telling me I am genuinely wrong so I can stop loosing sleep over this issue. I am really sick of feeling like shit over this and its not even about a video game.