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[QUOTE=aamirus;853040]This is a [B][U]standard [/U][/B]8331 with mayor and marshall sliders both maxed out and crier decreased to as low as it would let me go without a failure rate.

Notice that the percent chance of mayor/marshall adds up to over 98%. So in less than 2% of games you would have a crier alone as town gov.

I think that's not too bad

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26763[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

10.0 weight for mayor and marsh was overkill, so I tuned mayor and marsh down to about 2.0 to 3.0 (in comparison, doctor is about 5.0), and crier to about 0.4. I didn't want town gov spawning out of town rand or any rand [I]too[/I] often.

Also bumped up judge's weight a little bit as a counterweight to the increased "power" of crier

Most potential setups I saw via spamming -emulate like 50 times (i wasnt even counting, thats just an estimate i put in) seem to result in either mayor/marsh only, or mayor/marsh+crier. Only like 3 of them max were crier only, and only 3 of them max had an error/were mayor/marsh+crier+citizen (it fluctuated between 0.5 and 0.7%)

And yes, I checked. Citizen has both options checked, so a citizen can both fool town into thinking there may be auditor, but also be the one vest tiebreaker.

Seems pretty damn good for the current save builder. I will do that for now.

Originally Posted by aamirus

This is a standard 8331 with mayor and marshall sliders both maxed out and crier decreased to as low as it would let me go without a failure rate.

Notice that the percent chance of mayor/marshall adds up to over 98%. So in less than 2% of games you would have a crier alone as town gov.

I think that's not too bad

10.0 weight for mayor and marsh was overkill, so I tuned mayor and marsh down to about 2.0 to 3.0 (in comparison, doctor is about 5.0), and crier to about 0.4. I didn't want town gov spawning out of town rand or any rand too often.

Also bumped up judge's weight a little bit as a counterweight to the increased "power" of crier

Most potential setups I saw via spamming -emulate like 50 times (i wasnt even counting, thats just an estimate i put in) seem to result in either mayor/marsh only, or mayor/marsh+crier. Only like 3 of them max were crier only, and only 3 of them max had an error/were mayor/marsh+crier+citizen (it fluctuated between 0.5 and 0.7%)

And yes, I checked. Citizen has both options checked, so a citizen can both fool town into thinking there may be auditor, but also be the one vest tiebreaker.

Seems pretty damn good for the current save builder. I will do that for now.

ok just tried to include govt in town random, resulting in a 11% save failure rate.

This shit's cursed. An error on town gov because I let town gov spawn in town random.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/j6IPgXZ.png[/img]

so going back to the normal scenario of "Town gov excluded from town random, town gov btwn crier/marsh/mayor", theres a high chance of any not being the town gov, and the town gov having a good chance of being crier, cucking the town out of mayor/marsh.

I want there to be a guaranteed mayor/marsh, but i don't want both of them to exist at the same time. At the same time, I want the chance of crier to be high as possible WITHOUT compromising the mayor/marsh guarantee, and the chance of citizen to be as low as possible.

ok just tried to include govt in town random, resulting in a 11% save failure rate.

This shit's cursed. An error on town gov because I let town gov spawn in town random.



so going back to the normal scenario of "Town gov excluded from town random, town gov btwn crier/marsh/mayor", theres a high chance of any not being the town gov, and the town gov having a good chance of being crier, cucking the town out of mayor/marsh.

I want there to be a guaranteed mayor/marsh, but i don't want both of them to exist at the same time. At the same time, I want the chance of crier to be high as possible WITHOUT compromising the mayor/marsh guarantee, and the chance of citizen to be as low as possible.

Ok so if I make town random include government, and town gov only be between mayor and marsh, then there's more chances of crier spawning alongside mayor right? But if i let town rand include govt, then a mayor and marsh can spawn alongside eachother, and I don't want that.

Ok so if I make town random include government, and town gov only be between mayor and marsh, then there's more chances of crier spawning alongside mayor right? But if i let town rand include govt, then a mayor and marsh can spawn alongside eachother, and I don't want that.

[QUOTE=aamirus;852876]Your town random excludes government right?[/QUOTE]

town rand excludes govt

maybe if crier can spawn alongside mayor/marsh it would be fine. that would require crier probably being town power/gov. actually brb going to post that in suggestions.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Your town random excludes government right?

town rand excludes govt

maybe if crier can spawn alongside mayor/marsh it would be fine. that would require crier probably being town power/gov. actually brb going to post that in suggestions.

ok i have done some further experimenting. Two trends I noticed:

- If you exclude crier, the save failure/citizen pick chance is always between 4 and 7%, while crier chance is below 0.1%. It could be around 0.1% if crier weight is 0.1-0.3, but its usually crier chance 0%.

- As the weight of crier goes up, for as long as crier is included in town government, crier's chances completely shoot up to the normal chance of around 20% while citizen/save failure chance goes down and down. There's consistently NO chance of citizen/save failure starting at crier weight 0.3 and above.

here's further proof

[img]https://i.imgur.com/4BLNhtD.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/mVvSOqy.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/frSVXRY.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/TNoJXne.png[/img]

For reference, my save:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/oqWKs9D.png[/img]

Some things of note:
- No mafia AT all.
- No cult and masons at all.
- I know every single triad 8331 likes to exclude triad in the any random, but I don't. I know I get shit for it, but I won't discard this gimmick. It's the one thing keeping my save unique after 8331 replaced 933 as the meta.
- Town gov in every scenario i listed excludes citizen.
- Auditor is a thing.
- Judge is as low as crier in the normal scenario.

So the gameplay implications of this is that if I wanted to exclude crier, there you go.

However, now instead of a 20% chance crier instead of mayor/marsh, theres a 4-7% chance citizen instead of mayor/marsh.

Crier is a citizen who speaks at night and that's it.
Citizen is, well, a citizen who may have a vest and might win a 1v1 tie with triad.

So now the typical scenario of mayor/marsh being a thing is even higher, except now if someone speaks in night chat, people know OFF the bat that's judge. That means judge gonna have to shut up if he wants to be effective and catch the town leader by surprise. Basically the future meta once judge's night chat is removed.

But in the scenario we end up rolling this 4-7% chance, our town gov is now a citizen. He can't even confirm himself early game because people will suspect (not even confirm) the presence of auditor. He has no special abilities at all besides use a vest, which is a slight tradeoff for not being able to speak at night. There aren't even any fucking masons or cult in my save (for good reason, they don't work in a 8331.) How is citizen expected to confirm himself? How could citizen even be the town leader?

But when the update comes where judge's night chat is removed, and crier can be buffed, I might consider changing this back to "normal".

ok i have done some further experimenting. Two trends I noticed:

- If you exclude crier, the save failure/citizen pick chance is always between 4 and 7%, while crier chance is below 0.1%. It could be around 0.1% if crier weight is 0.1-0.3, but its usually crier chance 0%.

- As the weight of crier goes up, for as long as crier is included in town government, crier's chances completely shoot up to the normal chance of around 20% while citizen/save failure chance goes down and down. There's consistently NO chance of citizen/save failure starting at crier weight 0.3 and above.

here's further proof






For reference, my save:



Some things of note:
- No mafia AT all.
- No cult and masons at all.
- I know every single triad 8331 likes to exclude triad in the any random, but I don't. I know I get shit for it, but I won't discard this gimmick. It's the one thing keeping my save unique after 8331 replaced 933 as the meta.
- Town gov in every scenario i listed excludes citizen.
- Auditor is a thing.
- Judge is as low as crier in the normal scenario.

So the gameplay implications of this is that if I wanted to exclude crier, there you go.

However, now instead of a 20% chance crier instead of mayor/marsh, theres a 4-7% chance citizen instead of mayor/marsh.

Crier is a citizen who speaks at night and that's it.
Citizen is, well, a citizen who may have a vest and might win a 1v1 tie with triad.

So now the typical scenario of mayor/marsh being a thing is even higher, except now if someone speaks in night chat, people know OFF the bat that's judge. That means judge gonna have to shut up if he wants to be effective and catch the town leader by surprise. Basically the future meta once judge's night chat is removed.

But in the scenario we end up rolling this 4-7% chance, our town gov is now a citizen. He can't even confirm himself early game because people will suspect (not even confirm) the presence of auditor. He has no special abilities at all besides use a vest, which is a slight tradeoff for not being able to speak at night. There aren't even any fucking masons or cult in my save (for good reason, they don't work in a 8331.) How is citizen expected to confirm himself? How could citizen even be the town leader?

But when the update comes where judge's night chat is removed, and crier can be buffed, I might consider changing this back to "normal".

ok i thought save failures could get a whole lot nastier like it will actually break the game like all hell breaks loose or something.

ok i thought save failures could get a whole lot nastier like it will actually break the game like all hell breaks loose or something.

So I was sick and tired of town gov being a useless fucking crier, because let's face it, Crier is very weak in current meta.

Unfortunately, excluding crier from town gov tends to cause a save failure rate of 4-7%.
And any weight below 0.3 for crier tends to cause a very small save failure rate that is <1% for 0.2, but increases to the 4-6% range as you reduce weight further.

What are the technicalities behind this? What causes that save failure rate and what is a possible scenario where the save "fails" because there's no crier?

I mean, to take a 7% chance max for save fail to make the town stronger seems like a good trade-off, I'm just curious for how does the save failure rate work, especially in the scenario where everything is fine EXCEPT crier weight being dangerously close to or effectively zero.

So I was sick and tired of town gov being a useless fucking crier, because let's face it, Crier is very weak in current meta.

Unfortunately, excluding crier from town gov tends to cause a save failure rate of 4-7%.
And any weight below 0.3 for crier tends to cause a very small save failure rate that is <1% for 0.2, but increases to the 4-6% range as you reduce weight further.

What are the technicalities behind this? What causes that save failure rate and what is a possible scenario where the save "fails" because there's no crier?

I mean, to take a 7% chance max for save fail to make the town stronger seems like a good trade-off, I'm just curious for how does the save failure rate work, especially in the scenario where everything is fine EXCEPT crier weight being dangerously close to or effectively zero.