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[QUOTE=Oberon;939297]So the understanding you have of "nig*er" in the arcade is that its the same thing as being in the KKK, since that's the examples you're giving? Lmfao
You may be part of an ethnic minority, but you are also part of the intellectual majority. That's an insult, I wonder if you can piece together what it's supposed to mean :)[/QUOTE]

Wow, need some Neosporin for that burn.

Originally Posted by Oberon

So the understanding you have of "nig*er" in the arcade is that its the same thing as being in the KKK, since that's the examples you're giving? Lmfao
You may be part of an ethnic minority, but you are also part of the intellectual majority. That's an insult, I wonder if you can piece together what it's supposed to mean

Wow, need some Neosporin for that burn.

I want to give everyone enough rope to hang themselves or to fly free. That is the point. Nothing else. And all of my writing has been supporting increasing the punishment for racist players, but I think by codifying racial language as an offense, we are opening a pandoras box.. For the record. I am fair-skinned, French, Spanish, and Native American. If you are interested, I can send you info about my Tia, she was the highest-ranking Latino woman in the Air Force.

I want to give everyone enough rope to hang themselves or to fly free. That is the point. Nothing else. And all of my writing has been supporting increasing the punishment for racist players, but I think by codifying racial language as an offense, we are opening a pandoras box.. For the record. I am fair-skinned, French, Spanish, and Native American. If you are interested, I can send you info about my Tia, she was the highest-ranking Latino woman in the Air Force.

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939284]WTF are you talking about. I'm a racial minority myself, you ignorant racist.[/QUOTE]

He was diverting the conversation about the morality of racism which is a good topic but it is not the subject of this post. As he continually referenced racial disparity it was good info but not relevant to what I am discussing. You so quickly labeled me "racist" but you know what. When it comes down to it say you and me are in Kentucky and we get into a hate crime based on race. You will know who is standing next to you and who was full of wind.

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

WTF are you talking about. I'm a racial minority myself, you ignorant racist.

He was diverting the conversation about the morality of racism which is a good topic but it is not the subject of this post. As he continually referenced racial disparity it was good info but not relevant to what I am discussing. You so quickly labeled me "racist" but you know what. When it comes down to it say you and me are in Kentucky and we get into a hate crime based on race. You will know who is standing next to you and who was full of wind.

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939282]So if it's not allowed in the real world, why should it be allowed virtually given that insults hurt feelings regardless of the medium you interact with?

I highly doubt the intellectual ability of any racists. They can't accept the fact that people born with different skin can be as good or better than them in athleticism, intelligence, knowledge, and skills. Or they're always pointing to some model minority, which is another untrue and racist lie perpetuated by Caucasians born out of geopolitics, and saying why can't X people be like Y people. Or saying they can't be racist because they have minority friends like a gay priest saying he's still friends with the other boys he hasn't molested. Or comparing themselves to the lowest common denominator of the KKK, not realizing that the values or things they hold are still racist by other ethnic groups.



"Yeah, let's let that drunk into that store and take notes and be civil people while he trashes the store. The police will eventually take care of him." instead of making people like them aware that if you enter the store drunk, you're going to be banned hard.

Good thing we're covering this now before you unintentionally get fired for sympathizing with racists while doing your 5th degree.[/QUOTE]

I've warned you twice about personal attacks. If you can't be civil in this discussion then I am not interested in your input.

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

So if it's not allowed in the real world, why should it be allowed virtually given that insults hurt feelings regardless of the medium you interact with?

I highly doubt the intellectual ability of any racists. They can't accept the fact that people born with different skin can be as good or better than them in athleticism, intelligence, knowledge, and skills. Or they're always pointing to some model minority, which is another untrue and racist lie perpetuated by Caucasians born out of geopolitics, and saying why can't X people be like Y people. Or saying they can't be racist because they have minority friends like a gay priest saying he's still friends with the other boys he hasn't molested. Or comparing themselves to the lowest common denominator of the KKK, not realizing that the values or things they hold are still racist by other ethnic groups.



"Yeah, let's let that drunk into that store and take notes and be civil people while he trashes the store. The police will eventually take care of him." instead of making people like them aware that if you enter the store drunk, you're going to be banned hard.

Good thing we're covering this now before you unintentionally get fired for sympathizing with racists while doing your 5th degree.

I've warned you twice about personal attacks. If you can't be civil in this discussion then I am not interested in your input.

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939282]So if it's not allowed in the real world, why should it be allowed virtually given that insults hurt feelings regardless of the medium you interact with?

I highly doubt the intellectual ability of any racists. They can't accept the fact that people born with different skin can be as good or better than them in athleticism, intelligence, knowledge, and skills. Or they're always pointing to some model minority, which is another untrue and racist lie perpetuated by Caucasians born out of geopolitics, and saying why can't X people be like Y people. Or saying they can't be racist because they have minority friends like a gay priest saying he's still friends with the other boys he hasn't molested. Or comparing themselves to the lowest common denominator of the KKK, not realizing that the values or things they hold are still racist by other ethnic groups.



"Yeah, let's let that drunk into that store and take notes and be civil people while he trashes the store. The police will eventually take care of him." instead of making people like them aware that if you enter the store drunk, you're going to be banned hard.

Good thing we're covering this now before you unintentionally get fired for sympathizing with racists while doing your 5th degree.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you realize the pain and anguish black people feel. You look at racism and it disgusts you because you think you are linked to it. So you roar and scream, but black people have been dealing with this type of stuff for a long time, they know the deal. Stand up next to them when stuff happens, that is how you fight hate speech. Speech is nothing, "words are wind."

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

So if it's not allowed in the real world, why should it be allowed virtually given that insults hurt feelings regardless of the medium you interact with?

I highly doubt the intellectual ability of any racists. They can't accept the fact that people born with different skin can be as good or better than them in athleticism, intelligence, knowledge, and skills. Or they're always pointing to some model minority, which is another untrue and racist lie perpetuated by Caucasians born out of geopolitics, and saying why can't X people be like Y people. Or saying they can't be racist because they have minority friends like a gay priest saying he's still friends with the other boys he hasn't molested. Or comparing themselves to the lowest common denominator of the KKK, not realizing that the values or things they hold are still racist by other ethnic groups.



"Yeah, let's let that drunk into that store and take notes and be civil people while he trashes the store. The police will eventually take care of him." instead of making people like them aware that if you enter the store drunk, you're going to be banned hard.

Good thing we're covering this now before you unintentionally get fired for sympathizing with racists while doing your 5th degree.

I don't think you realize the pain and anguish black people feel. You look at racism and it disgusts you because you think you are linked to it. So you roar and scream, but black people have been dealing with this type of stuff for a long time, they know the deal. Stand up next to them when stuff happens, that is how you fight hate speech. Speech is nothing, "words are wind."

Maybe if I say it this way. Let them be racist. We should take notes, and continue playing with integrity and be conscientious of the community in general. My position on handling hate speech is in the initial post.

Maybe if I say it this way. Let them be racist. We should take notes, and continue playing with integrity and be conscientious of the community in general. My position on handling hate speech is in the initial post.

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939279]How is it a logical fallacy?

Racism is wrong as is all crimes. There should be zero justification for this type of activity. The minute any racism is allowed in this game becomes chaotic reign for people to say very incredibly hurtful and misleading things, which will make this community even smaller than it already is and killing it. Think about how many black people who want to play this map got turned off by all the n-words people use under the guise of "free speech". Even used in a satirical manner, like the forefathers of 4chan who said racist things ironically, but got interpreted as holy preserve white culture scripture by anonfags today.[/QUOTE]

Your argument in the context of this situation is a logical fallacy. I am not commenting on racism. I am commenting on the strength of your anaology/argument

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

How is it a logical fallacy?

Racism is wrong as is all crimes. There should be zero justification for this type of activity. The minute any racism is allowed in this game becomes chaotic reign for people to say very incredibly hurtful and misleading things, which will make this community even smaller than it already is and killing it. Think about how many black people who want to play this map got turned off by all the n-words people use under the guise of "free speech". Even used in a satirical manner, like the forefathers of 4chan who said racist things ironically, but got interpreted as holy preserve white culture scripture by anonfags today.

Your argument in the context of this situation is a logical fallacy. I am not commenting on racism. I am commenting on the strength of your anaology/argument

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939276]Right, this also works in the real world too. Hire the most racist person you can find to see what they can do irrespective of the much bigger negative externalities they create for other people. After all, who knows what kind of interesting ideas and innovations they have besides spewing intolerable hatred for other races![/QUOTE]

This is a logical fallacy

[url]https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/logic_in_argumentative_writing/fallacies.html[/url]

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

Right, this also works in the real world too. Hire the most racist person you can find to see what they can do irrespective of the much bigger negative externalities they create for other people. After all, who knows what kind of interesting ideas and innovations they have besides spewing intolerable hatred for other races!

This is a logical fallacy

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_w...fallacies.html

[QUOTE=Renegade;939271]There's no guarantee of freeze peach in a private game. TLDR.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, true. Do you know how international law was founded? They used common principles of law that everyone could agree on. That is essentially what has been happening here at this site for over a decade.

Originally Posted by Renegade

There's no guarantee of freeze peach in a private game. TLDR.

Absolutely, true. Do you know how international law was founded? They used common principles of law that everyone could agree on. That is essentially what has been happening here at this site for over a decade.

We are always going to be dealing with racist players. I'm less interested in their speech and more interested in what they then go and do in the game.

We are always going to be dealing with racist players. I'm less interested in their speech and more interested in what they then go and do in the game.

"What does free speech have to do with racism?" I feel like you might be teaching yourself right now.

"What does free speech have to do with racism?" I feel like you might be teaching yourself right now.

[QUOTE=Drizzt;939244]Punishing Racism in-game. Okay, let's start with freedom of speech. The US Constitution provides protection with the first amendment, even racist speech so long as it doesn't rise to the level of threats or harassment. The First Amendment does not make speech sanctionable merely because its content is objectionable (TJ Donovan Attorney General). The division between racial slurs being used to incite violence is the real world "line in the sand" regarding what is punishable. I believe we can agree that since real-life violence is probably not a concern, but the use of racial slurs while in the act of griefing or cheating, is very much punishable.

The UK has a more lax position on protecting hate speech, as do many EU countries such as Germany. But Freedom of Expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of human rights. Furthermore, in the Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps, we see that as much as we all hate the Westborrow Baptist Church hate group, they have a right to assemble and express themselves so long as they do not threaten or criminally harass.

So where am I going with this? I believe we are wrong to punish players solely on the basis of hate speech. But! We can use their hate speech as an "aggravating factor." What does an aggravating factor mean to the mafia community? Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating. So, if they grief by spamming hate speech, that would be punished more severely than simply spamming nonsense. The hate speech alone is not the basis for the punishment, it is an aggravating factor.

Punishing hate speech might feel good in the short term, or provide an easy mechanism to punish problem players, but in the grand scheme of things, I do not believe in the efficacy of limiting freedom of expression.


Very Respectfully,

BrockSamson


The link below is absolutely fabulous work studying the use of racial slurs in mafia. I intentionally didn't post this topic there because it's top-notch and I didn't want to distract anyone from the data.

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48882-A-Statistical-Analysis-of-Racism-Across-10-790-Replays[/url][/QUOTE]

I did not intentionally bury the main point. Point: "Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating." was in my initial statement.

Originally Posted by Drizzt

Punishing Racism in-game. Okay, let's start with freedom of speech. The US Constitution provides protection with the first amendment, even racist speech so long as it doesn't rise to the level of threats or harassment. The First Amendment does not make speech sanctionable merely because its content is objectionable (TJ Donovan Attorney General). The division between racial slurs being used to incite violence is the real world "line in the sand" regarding what is punishable. I believe we can agree that since real-life violence is probably not a concern, but the use of racial slurs while in the act of griefing or cheating, is very much punishable.

The UK has a more lax position on protecting hate speech, as do many EU countries such as Germany. But Freedom of Expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of human rights. Furthermore, in the Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps, we see that as much as we all hate the Westborrow Baptist Church hate group, they have a right to assemble and express themselves so long as they do not threaten or criminally harass.

So where am I going with this? I believe we are wrong to punish players solely on the basis of hate speech. But! We can use their hate speech as an "aggravating factor." What does an aggravating factor mean to the mafia community? Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating. So, if they grief by spamming hate speech, that would be punished more severely than simply spamming nonsense. The hate speech alone is not the basis for the punishment, it is an aggravating factor.

Punishing hate speech might feel good in the short term, or provide an easy mechanism to punish problem players, but in the grand scheme of things, I do not believe in the efficacy of limiting freedom of expression.


Very Respectfully,

BrockSamson


The link below is absolutely fabulous work studying the use of racial slurs in mafia. I intentionally didn't post this topic there because it's top-notch and I didn't want to distract anyone from the data.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...10-790-Replays

I did not intentionally bury the main point. Point: "Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating." was in my initial statement.

[QUOTE=HentaiManOfPeace;939262]Never in my entire life of reviewing and writing papers have I ever seen anyone advocating for less racism by starting with arguing points for the other side and burying their thesis statement in the last 25% of their content.[/QUOTE]

I am advocating a different approach to handling racism in the mafia community. We need to be free to express ourselves, it is a quality inherent in any individual.

"There are two things a person should never be angry at, what they can help, and what they cannot." -Plato

Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace

Never in my entire life of reviewing and writing papers have I ever seen anyone advocating for less racism by starting with arguing points for the other side and burying their thesis statement in the last 25% of their content.

I am advocating a different approach to handling racism in the mafia community. We need to be free to express ourselves, it is a quality inherent in any individual.

"There are two things a person should never be angry at, what they can help, and what they cannot." -Plato

What I lack in style I make up in content.

What I lack in style I make up in content.

Freedom of Expression is a right to be preserved. If you can't take the other perspective, that is your situation.

Freedom of Expression is a right to be preserved. If you can't take the other perspective, that is your situation.

Can we agree that personal attacks are not constructive here?

Can we agree that personal attacks are not constructive here?

Perfect example. You steal something and get X punishment. But what if you steal something and go on a racial tirade, in fact, you targeted that business because of their ethnicity. You are punished for stealing proportionally to the crime, and the aggravating factor would be grounds for a harsher punishment.

Perfect example. You steal something and get X punishment. But what if you steal something and go on a racial tirade, in fact, you targeted that business because of their ethnicity. You are punished for stealing proportionally to the crime, and the aggravating factor would be grounds for a harsher punishment.

Actually, I am a practitioner of TKD. That is not the issue.

Actually, I am a practitioner of TKD. That is not the issue.

I hold 4 degrees, not two, and I'm working on the fifth.

I hold 4 degrees, not two, and I'm working on the fifth.

I am not attempting to protect the use of racial slurs, I am presenting a legal argument in support of freedom of expression. I know racism is wrong, but that is not the argument here. We can preserve freedom of expression AND punish racism but I argue we should do it as an aggravating factor.

I am not attempting to protect the use of racial slurs, I am presenting a legal argument in support of freedom of expression. I know racism is wrong, but that is not the argument here. We can preserve freedom of expression AND punish racism but I argue we should do it as an aggravating factor.

Punishing Racism in-game. Okay, let's start with freedom of speech. The US Constitution provides protection with the first amendment, even racist speech so long as it doesn't rise to the level of threats or harassment. The First Amendment does not make speech sanctionable merely because its content is objectionable (TJ Donovan Attorney General). The division between racial slurs being used to incite violence is the real world "line in the sand" regarding what is punishable. I believe we can agree that since real-life violence is probably not a concern, but the use of racial slurs while in the act of griefing or cheating, is very much punishable.

The UK has a more lax position on protecting hate speech, as do many EU countries such as Germany. But Freedom of Expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of human rights. Furthermore, in the Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps, we see that as much as we all hate the Westborrow Baptist Church hate group, they have a right to assemble and express themselves so long as they do not threaten or criminally harass.

So where am I going with this? I believe we are wrong to punish players solely on the basis of hate speech. But! We can use their hate speech as an "aggravating factor." What does an aggravating factor mean to the mafia community? Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating. So, if they grief by spamming hate speech, that would be punished more severely than simply spamming nonsense. The hate speech alone is not the basis for the punishment, it is an aggravating factor.

Punishing hate speech might feel good in the short term, or provide an easy mechanism to punish problem players, but in the grand scheme of things, I do not believe in the efficacy of limiting freedom of expression.


Very Respectfully,

BrockSamson


The link below is absolutely fabulous work studying the use of racial slurs in mafia. I intentionally didn't post this topic there because it's top-notch and I didn't want to distract anyone from the data.

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48882-A-Statistical-Analysis-of-Racism-Across-10-790-Replays[/url]

Punishing Racism in-game. Okay, let's start with freedom of speech. The US Constitution provides protection with the first amendment, even racist speech so long as it doesn't rise to the level of threats or harassment. The First Amendment does not make speech sanctionable merely because its content is objectionable (TJ Donovan Attorney General). The division between racial slurs being used to incite violence is the real world "line in the sand" regarding what is punishable. I believe we can agree that since real-life violence is probably not a concern, but the use of racial slurs while in the act of griefing or cheating, is very much punishable.

The UK has a more lax position on protecting hate speech, as do many EU countries such as Germany. But Freedom of Expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of human rights. Furthermore, in the Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps, we see that as much as we all hate the Westborrow Baptist Church hate group, they have a right to assemble and express themselves so long as they do not threaten or criminally harass.

So where am I going with this? I believe we are wrong to punish players solely on the basis of hate speech. But! We can use their hate speech as an "aggravating factor." What does an aggravating factor mean to the mafia community? Well, it would compound the punishment for committing other crimes such as griefing or cheating. So, if they grief by spamming hate speech, that would be punished more severely than simply spamming nonsense. The hate speech alone is not the basis for the punishment, it is an aggravating factor.

Punishing hate speech might feel good in the short term, or provide an easy mechanism to punish problem players, but in the grand scheme of things, I do not believe in the efficacy of limiting freedom of expression.


Very Respectfully,

BrockSamson


The link below is absolutely fabulous work studying the use of racial slurs in mafia. I intentionally didn't post this topic there because it's top-notch and I didn't want to distract anyone from the data.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...10-790-Replays