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  1. Replies
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    ►►Re: Moral as a strategy in mafia◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I think my point was not understood. I agree intentionally hurting another’s experience is objectively bad and has no place in mafia.

    The last game I pushed the opposing team to quit was on this site and it was done mechanically. I confirmed myself as town then structured the towns actions building a POE with mech analysis that I felt was optimal. The non town felt they were in such a bad position they just quit.

    I personally don’t see MMA as any different. When you feel like your being outplayed (wether you are or not) it can kill your motivation to play. There is also a flip side to this. As scum I have worked to make town feel like they totally had the game in the bag so they would try less. These kinds of tactics are very effective imo although I do hope this clarifys what I was saying.
    Outplaying your opponents by simply being good is what makes the game interesting. If your opponents do not control themselves well enough to resist this, it's on them, not on you, and I would argue they are the bad sportsmen, not you. It only gets bad if you're actively trying to make your opponent's experience unfun - such as by intentionally trying to enrage them so that they'll stop playing. In this case, I believe it just falls under rulebreaking: rules exist to stop people from using "strategies" that would be optimal gameplay-wise, but that make the game not fun overall. That's why you're not supposed to knock out your opponents in soccer (very much not fun) or to grab the ball with your hands (goes against the concept); that's also why you're not supposed to communicate with people about the game outside of the game (it would be "optimal" if allowed, but we forbid it for the sake of fun and good functioning). The same reasoning applies to what basically boils down to "intentionally crossing the line as an in-game strategy".


    Regarding the other questionable strats:

    - Meta data-crunching is a simple extension of metareading, which is already considered as part of the game, and I don't think I've ever seen someone be annoyed by it.

    - "Breaking down sociometric patterns" basically just come down to knowing a group of people to see that when X does that, Y usually reacts that way, right? That's also an extension of meta. Where it becomes problematic is if it ends up being like a pre-game alliance (e.g. "red text of truth", "I swear on my children's life I'm town" when people know you would never say this dishonestly [we had a case of that years ago and agreed with the person to stop that], etc.).

    - Eliciting emotions to draw reads: This is a matter of intensity rather than a binary yes/no situation. Making someone laugh to break their guard down, making them feel threatened (in-game, obviously), making them feel unjustly misread, even making them feel like they're losing, etc. is all fine because it remains an in-game attack that cannot be reasonably considered as an attack on their actual out-of-game person by the target. Calling them retarded repeatedly to make them feel dumb (hard gaslighting) is another story, though, because it attacks the person. It's also worth noting that the line is partly situational: if someone just had a loved one die and you're pressuring them to take advantage of it, a degree of pressure that would have normally been a little heavy, but fine, can become hardly acceptable, for example. Basically, the game does not allow one to stop being a decent human being.
    Idem for empathy, ad homs, etc.

    - False reads are a dangerous, but certainly not immoral strategy. If you can make it work and it pays off, good for you; if you're doing it poorly, then you simply made a mistake lol.

    - Misrepresenting host rules/statements feels like angleshooting? You're not supposed to discuss stuff related to host statements unless it's explicitely allowed, usually, for the sake of game integrity; this boils down to my earlier example about grabbing the ball with your hands in soccer earlier.
  2. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:Jungle Rebellion

    Thread Author:Zedus

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    [WIP] ►►Re: Jungle Rebellion◄◄

    A few preliminary remarks:

    - Giving animal names to everyone might turn the game into a big "named townie" mess where everyone claims the name of their animal and scum get boxed in. This is especially true if scum necessarily have at least one member with each characteristic (predator/herbivore/small/big).

    - Why is there a survivor? Is there a design idea behind it? It seems it's very likely to be a kingmaker without much more to it.

    Also, considering you said Lion auto-reveals if hammered, does that mean you intend to use majority only (i.e. no lynch if noone reaches 50 % + 1)? Plurality + majority is often preferred.

    How exactly do kills work? Do scums have a factional kill, or are predators meant to be the ones attacking (in which case the game is gun madness lol)? Assuming scum have a factional kill, is the "hyena pack" ability multitaskable with it?
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    ►►Re: S-FM 356: Divide and Conquer◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbertwo View Post
    sign?
    looks like my ritual made unexpected dead rise
  4. Replies
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    ►►Re: S-FM 356: Divide and Conquer◄◄

    ARISE THREAD LONG DEAD

    @Varcron @Frinckles @Zedus
    @Frinckles @Zedus @Varcron
    @Zedus @Varcron @Frinckles

    I SUMMON THEE, THREE TIMES THREE
    MOOFIA CALLS!!!

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    ►►Re: S-FM 356: Divide and Conquer◄◄

    MAFIAAAAA

    /sign
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    ►►Re: S-FM 356: Timelines Mafia (downsized 9p)◄◄

    I should be able to breathe when this starts, as opposed to right now lol, so /sign!
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    ►►Re: IsraeliPalestinian conflict◄◄

    By the way, anyone actually supporting Hamas itself is quite... strange, in my opinion. I mean, that means supporting the terrorist part of Palestine. The whole grey area is about the legitimacy of Palestine itself, as distinct (while related) to Hamas, and not about "is it right to use civilians as meat shields, to hide below hospitals", etc., considering I'm pretty sure there is a consensus that this is utterly immoral, regardless of one's stance on the conflict.
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    ►►Re: MC XPLICIT JEWISH DISS TRACK PT.1 "REVENGE OF THE GOYIM"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    This was actually exactly how the professor described it too.

    I made a 100 on this paper.
    Hahaha nice
    Gj to 3 years ago you
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    I think that was just an unfortunate situation that in reality wouldn't happen in 90% of games if not more. We just happened to get the version where it did.
    100 % agreed. It's easily fixable, though, hence my mention of it in case we rerun the setup eventually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Overall though I enjoyed this game, had quite a few new refreshing mechanics I haven't seen in a bit so thanks for hosting it!
    ^
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    ►►Re: S-FM Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...les-3?p=996223

    Putting the last page of the game here for the sake of rebalancing if we want to re-run this setup eventually, which is not unfathomable in my opinion, although a few changes would be nice. (doesn't have to be now or soon)

    Edit by MartinGG99: PoD has suggested this for future potential hosts

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Recommended edits for anyone who want to host this in the future.

    Janitor -> Does not use up a charge if somehow nobody die or get lynched for the whole night and day.
    Ghost -> Cannot haunt the same players 2 nights in a row
    Bounty Hunter -> Redesign the role completely imo. The way it currently stand is almost unwinnable or even scrap it out entirely.
    Werewolves -> Cannot devour fully grown trees
    Sapling -> Be more clear with how becoming a tree impact the game. Include in the rolecard that becoming a tree doesnt make you IC.
    Door Salesman -> Include in the rolecard that getting extra votes isn't public and nobody know their votes count as 2+. This prevent them from becoming IC.
    Wild Card -> I would say let Wild Card pick 1 player to be Wild at Start of Game + 1 player to be Wild upon death to make it easier for them to win.
    Detector - Becareful of including this role as it can break game if everyone mass claim day 1. Just balance around it, just like you need to balance around Fancy Lady too.

    If you are gonna include more roles and stuff, I suggest more VT variants beside just Saplings. Also more creative neutrals. Feel free to add and remove roles, since if youre gonna host it, you can choose roles for this. I recommend to include more visiting roles in general but nothing too gamebreaking for Wild Card.
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    ►►Re: MC XPLICIT JEWISH DISS TRACK PT.1 "REVENGE OF THE GOYIM"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    hey guys it's me stealth

    uhh

    i figured that since there was no effort put into this thread at all i should pick up some of the slack so here's an analysis i wrote on a play for school

    Spoiler : el nogalar :

    Given Circumstances

    Time
    Time is listed at the beginning of El Nogalar as “the present”. El Nogalar was written in 2010 and published in 2011.
    This can also be seen mid-play by the reference from Lopez about the “iPad 2’s that just came out” (79)
    Scene One and Two:
    No specific time is given. We learn that Anita and Maite are landing at the airport and that it has been reported their flight was delayed by two hours (74).
    Scene Three:
    Valeria and Dunia discuss how the plane has been delayed by two hours and how they will have to drive in the dark. (75) This gives us the impression that it is the late afternoon or evening.
    Scene Four:
    Dunia tells Lopez that he has been asleep for less than 10 minutes (75), so the scene takes place shortly after scene three.
    Anita and Maite arrive from the airport on time, meaning the airplane was not delayed.
    Scene Five:
    This takes place almost directly after scene four according to Lopez’s monologue (7. We also learn the time period of the play from this monologue [referenced at the start of the section]
    Scene Six:
    Stage directions tell us this takes place the next morning (79).
    Alternatively, we can tell this from Anita’s first line, “I would have stayed inside that purple bed all day and all night and… can we talk about what a good night’s sleep I had”? (79).
    Scene Seven:
    This takes place a day after scene six according to stage directions (80).
    We hear that Anita, Vale and Maite all left to the cascade “not 20 minutes ago”. (81)
    Scene Eight:
    This takes place a day after scene seven according to stage directions (81).
    Alternatively this can be assumed by the conversations from the last scene about how Anita, Vale and Maite went to go to the cascade for the day and are now back (81).
    Scene Nine:
    This takes place directly after scene eight, because Lopez references the end of scene 8 during his monologue. “What is all they’re burning over there?” (84).
    Scene Ten:
    This takes place a few days after scene nine, referenced by the fact they are throwing a party. “I told Mami no one would come.” (85)
    Scene Eleven:
    This is directly after scene ten, referenced by the drunken state of Lopez. “You’re in no state to drive home.” (86)
    Place
    The play takes place in a town in Mexico, run by the cartel. It is two hours away from the nearest major city with an airport, which means it is fairly rural.
    The play is always within the house or directly outside of it.
    Scenes One, Two and Six take place inside the master bedroom with the Porfirio Diaz bed. “It belonged to Profirio Diaz… Profirio Diaz himself slept on it!” (74)
    Profirio Diaz is a mexican president from Oaxaca, in the south of Mexico. This, and the distance to the nearest major city, implies the play takes place in south Mexico rather than close to the US border, although it is not stated.
    Scenes Three, Four, Seven and Ten take place in the playroom. It is described as a dusty room, where all of the toys and belongings are covered and in a state of disuse. “Why are they all in boxes?” (76)
    Scene Five takes place outside of the house, by Lopez’s car.
    Lopez has a car with an auto-start feature (albeit one that doesnt work all of the time), which was extremely uncommon in 2010.
    Scene Eight takes place outside of the house on a wooden porch. Vale is cooking goat on a stove or grill.
    Although it’s not stated the porch is wooden… it catches on fire. (84).
    Scene Nine takes place farther away from the house, near the gate at the end of the property. Lopez is able to see the wooden porch smoking but not discern what is on fire. (84).
    Scene Eleven takes place somewhere outside, although it isn’t specified somewhere. Dunia tells him he can’t drive home, so we know it is still on the property. (86)

    Society
    Families
    The play’s dynamic between the three characters Vale, Anita and Maite heavily drives the play. Maite’s money spending habits are a major force behind the plot issues, forcing Anita to drop out of college, and forcing Vale to have to save electricity.
    Vale and Anita have a unique relationship, being stepsisters with a major age gap. They are connected but they are not from the same generation.
    “This is from the times of Porfirio Diaz… but he didn’t actually sleep on this bed.” (79)
    “Oh don’t start crying, I’m sorry Vale” (79)
    “I’m sure I can find something. Anita you will go to school somewhere in Monterrey and everything will be alright” (85)
    Vale and Maite have a strained relationship from how Vale has been essentially looking after the house while Maite has been spending the family money in the USA for the last few years. Vale has had to be the mature member of the family.
    “‘Before I claimed it as mine?!’ Claimed it?! I was TOLD to come here!” (80)
    “Is Mami talking to Pedro? She shouldn’t be talking to Pedro at all.” (82)
    “Valeria is always enveloped in a cloud of despair. [Don’t take it so seriously.]” (84)
    “No one would come [to your party]. There’s no one left” (84)
    Anita and Maite are closer because they have similar levels of immaturity. Anita is spoiled with money and is still a college student. Neither character understands the gravity of the situation.
    “Look at this, Ana Maria. This was one of my first dolls.” (77)
    “I will not even consider the notion! [Subject closed. Enough!]” (80)
    “Is nobody going to feed me?!”

    Love and Friendship
    Love and Friendship ties all seem to run through Lopez in this script. Lopez’s connections with Maite and Vale complicate his feelings, and his connection with Dunia ends up taking the story in a different direction.
    Lopez and Maite’s relationship is all kinds of fucked.
    “Shit, after that I followed her like a puppy” (84)
    “Stay there little man. You can look at me, but you can’t touch.” (84)
    “What?! You would let your sister marry a man who’s been absolutely obsessed with her mother for, what, 20 years?” (86)
    Lopez and Vale are an extremely complex relationship because it’s not actually clear whether or not Lopez is interested in Vale for her, or because Vale reminds Lopez of Maite. The fogginess behind this relationship is furthered by the fact that the two characters rarely share stage time.
    “No, we treat him as if he still worked here. And it’s absolutely embarrassing.” (75)
    “Her eyes. They’re like her mother’s but deeper.” (81)
    “Valerias a saint. Ah, man. I should go talk to her.” (86)
    Lopez and Dunia are a much tighter duo. Their relationship grows a lot throughout the script. What starts as a kind of older vs younger sibling relationship grows into an interesting romantic relationship. It is up to Dunia’s actor to decide if Dunia is actually interested in Lopez, or if she is just using him as a stepping stone. The script allows for it to go either way.
    “Oh you don’t wipe your ass with your money? Look at you in your new snakeskin boots.” (73)
    LOPEZ: “I’m not playing with you.”
    DUNIA: “I’m not playing with you.” (80)
    “Just look at us. We can touch.” (87)

    Occupation
    Occupation is only a major point of the play for Lopez. Lopez is a member of the cartel, and has learned to use the cartel to further himself and to protect the people around him. This status in the cartel enables him to purchase Los Nogales eventually, which is the final driving force of the play.
    “I’m going to have a hard enough time making them understand that we are under an occupation.” (74)
    “Thats when I blurt out, ‘Chato… I’ll give you half of everything I own if you let me keep the nogalar.’” (86)

    Social Rank
    Social rankings are present in El Nogalar and are a major part of the conclusion. At the start of the play, Dunia is a housemaid, and Lopez is an outsider. Vale, Anita and Maite are the major family. Quickly it is established that the power is not held where Anita and Maite think it is held- within the family- and is instead held with Lopez. At the end of the play, the shift of power completes, and Lopez is the lord of the property, with Dunia next to him.
    “If we don’t negotiate now while I got [Chato] in a good mood, they will just come down from the mountains and take it all by force.” (74)
    “Los Nogales is mine, Dunia. Can you believe that?” (86)
    “If my grandfather, who didn’t even speak Spanish… could see me now.” (86)
    “These people, they’ve been the keepers of something that maybe wasn’t theirs to keep in the first place.” (86-87).
    “You did a brave thing, Memo. Who better than you to make something of this place?” (87)

    Social Standards
    The social standards in El Nogalar are vastly different than the social standards in the United States because of the setting of the play. Maite, for example, grew up in Mexico in the 70’s, a very different world than the United States now, or even the US during the 70’s. Now, granted, this is a little bit nullified by the fact that Maite doesn’t seem to care about social standards.
    This is additionally murked by the fact that societal standards in Mexico in 2010 are nowhere near the same as 10 or 20 years prior. The Cartel takeover completely changed
    Scene One
    Lopez establishes that there is no place for women in the cartel. He advises Dunia to keep her distance from them. (74)
    “All the men your age. Killed. Why Memo?” (74)
    “Understand that in all of this, there is no way for girls like you to ‘figure it out.’ Women are zeros” (74)
    Scene Two
    Lopez runs through his life in the house and how the cartel has changed how he has to behave.
    “Nowadays if someone sees you open your mouth, even to take a breath, a black truck with tinted windows will come… take you to the most unfortunate corners of the hills” (74)
    “This was the last room I got to see inside this house… we were never allowed upstairs.”
    Scene Three
    Vale warns Dunia (and, really, the audience) about how the way they have to treat Lopez has changed drastically due to his position in the cartel.
    “Just say Guillermo. Better yet, call him Mr. Lopez” (75)
    Scenes Four and Six
    This is the point where Maite and Anita enter the play. They are used to the bustling social standards in the US, and are unaware of the massive changes occurring in Mexico through the last 15 years. Vale tries to explain the gravity of the situation.
    Scene Six is slightly different due to the subject of the house purchase but I have lumped them together here due to them being otherwise very similar.
    “Pedro Trevino is not a teacher guy anymore.” (76)
    “Pedro is [a cartel member]... a very dangerous man to have around” (7
    “Mom we have to have a conversation about Pedro” (80)
    Scene Five
    No societal standards are present in this scene
    Scene Seven
    Dunia asks Lopez to teach her the internet. Dunia knows that the internet is a crucial thing to have knowledge of in the coming era, and wants to be ready when it becomes more normal in rural Mexico
    This scene also touches more on marriage, something hinted at in scene four, but is much more present here. Dunia discusses how Lopez should propose to Vale, even though the two are clearly not very close.
    “So when are these wedded nuptials supposed to happen, huh?” (81)
    “You don’t have to work too hard with her.” (81)
    “the Internet is too dangerous for you. Or better yet, you’re too dangerous for the Internet.” (82)
    Scene Eight
    This scene contains more discussion about Maite and the cartel.
    “If I have to watch Mami accidentally pull up her skirt again to fan herself when she laughs, when she’s really just showing off her legs, I will proceed to barf.” (82)
    “She’s over there gambling our money away?!” (82)
    We also see Dunia’s perception of men here, and how it seems to go against the new societal norms.
    “Men are stupid animals. They are smart but they are stupid animals.” (83)
    “Men like to know they are masters and owners of you. And you must let them know that this is so. Even if it is a lie.” (83)
    Scene Nine
    No societal standards are present in this scene.
    Scene Ten
    This scene contains more references to marriage.
    “I mean, if we get married maybe we can just stay here, you know?” (85)
    Scene Eleven
    No societal standards are present in this scene.


    Economics
    El Nogalar is centered around money. The lack of money drives Maite and Anita back to Mexico. The family’s lack of money makes the lighting usage a plot point, and by extension, the language barrier changing is also based on the economic issues the family faces. The play is concluded based on an economically centered shift of power, where Lopez spends half of what he owns on purchasing the house from the cartel.
    Scene One
    Dunia establishes the economic problems
    “If valeria walks by and sees us… using up the electricity in the middle of the day… she’s going to say something.” (72)
    “It’s a sad state of affairs when the Galvans have to save their pennies and watch how much light they fucking use” (72)
    “I don’t go around wiping my ass with money like these people do!” (73)
    Scene Two
    Economics are not discussed in scene two
    Scene Three
    “HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU NOT TO TURN ON THE LIGHTS IF THERE IS STILL LIGHT OUTSIDE!” (74)
    This quote speaks for itself
    Scene Four
    In scene four we begin to understand the extent of the economic problems the family faces.
    “She comes on a random Tuesday with no warning. Wild-eyed and super hyper and she just goes and pulls me out of school, just like that.” (77)
    “She lost the loft downtown. She sold it and still managed to have no money for my tuition.” (77)
    “She lost her passport, now the cell phone, we almost didn’t have money to get here!” (77)
    “He took all our money. He drained her.” (77)
    “The economy has made good boys, from good families todos manosos” (7
    Scene Five
    “Five years ago this offer might have been ridiculous, but the way things are today, it is as generous as it’s going to get.” (7
    Scene Six
    “I just got here and I’m already bombarded with Memo and his asinine offers to lend us money which will do I don’t know what exactly!” (80)
    “They are the bank now, Ana Maria.” (80)
    “Mama if we don’t sell it to them, they will just take it. You’re not understanding.” (80)

    Scene Seven
    “You can’t have the light on like this, you know who will come on her broomstick.” (80)
    Scene Eight
    “She’s laughing and not inventing dramas. Gambling relaxes her.” (82)
    “Why does she keep it so dark out here too? Where are the lights, Dunia? For out here?” (82)
    I find this quote interesting because it shows that Anita doesn’t still understand the depth of the situation. Anita turns on the porch lights the moment Vale leaves.
    “We can barely pay Dunia!” (84)
    “No one would come, Mama. There’s no one left and if there is someone left, we probably owe them money” (84)
    Scene Nine
    Economics are not referenced in scene nine.
    Scene Ten
    Lopez has bought the house.
    “They wouldn’t take a monthly payoff so El Senor Lopez bought it himself!” (85)
    “Does this mean we have a bit of money, now? Yes this means we’ll be able to at least live on it for a time.” (85)
    Scene Eleven
    “So thats when I blurt out, ‘Chato, I’ll give you my warehouses and the three gas stations. I’ll give you half of everything I own if you let me keep the nogalar.” (86)

    Politics and Law
    Politics and Law in El Nogalar is curious, because it’s almost more of a “Politics and lack of law”. El Nogalar is set right after a government shift, where the cartel basically runs the town.
    Scene One
    “I’m not trying to end up dismembered by a landfill. All I’m trying to do is learn to swim in it like you.” (74)
    Scene Two
    “You know why I end up worrying about other people’s shit? Because people don’t know when to shut the fuck up around here, that’s why” (74)
    “Nowadays if someone sees you open your mouth, even to take a breath, a black truck with tinted windows will come driving down the road and carry you off to the most unfortunate corners of the hills.” (74)

    Scene Three
    “You shouldn’t call him [Memo]” (75)
    “I’m sorry, but I’m not going to call him Mr. Lopez.” (75)
    Scene Four
    “Pedro Trevino is not a teacher guy anymore.” (76)
    “Well be scared. We are all contaminated here. They look like you and me now.” (7
    Scene Five
    “The fact that she even gets an offer is short of a miracle really! Every other piece of land has been taken by force.” (7
    “Maybe we should give her a little bit of time to say hello and good-bye to things. Ah, NO PLEASE CHATO. Let me.” (79)
    Scene Six
    “There are no friends left, Anita! All the people like us sold their lands and moved to Monterrey a long long time ago” (79)
    “They’ve taken our Mexico.” (79)
    “Mami, don’t get confused about Pedro. He is a beast, not a man.” (80)
    Scene Seven
    This scene doesn’t reference politics or the cartel.
    Scene Eight
    “OF COURSE SOMETHING BAD IS HAPPENING! I’m making the fucking goat! Why my mother got it in her head to eat goat, I will never know. Wasn’t she a vegetarian?” (82)
    “She shouldn’t be talking to Pedro at all.” (82)
    Scene Nine
    This scene doesn’t reference politics or the cartel.
    Scene Ten
    “I told mami no one would come. We have no friends left. Puros nacos y narcos, Ana Maria. Those are wolves downstairs. Ten years ago the governor would’ve been downstairs.” (85)
    Scene Eleven
    “Next thing I knew, Los Nogales was mine. Los Nogales is mine, Dunia. Can you believe that?” (86)

    Learning and the Arts: This is never specifically referenced in El Nogalar.
    Spirituality
    I believe there is a singular event where Spirituality is referenced, and it is in Scene Six.
    “I think I want to go put some flowers in Gustavito’s tomb. What do you say Anita, want to come put flowers in your brother’s tomb?” (80)

    The World of the Play
    Saracho’s play, El Nogalar, takes place in 2010 over the course of around a week in and around a manor and pecan orchard in rural Mexico. The house ties all of the characters of the play together, and the characters motivations all centralize on trying to keep or take El Nogalar by the end of the play.
    The play revolves heavily around themes of Social Rank, Economics, and Politics. It tells a story of a boy in an unusual scenario who placed himself in the cartel, and used his position of power to purchase the house his “idol” grew up in when she couldn’t pay for it. Dunia also makes a transformation, going from a house servant to becoming the de facto Lady of El Nogalar. The noble family of the manor runs out of money and has to return home to find that they can’t return to the way their life was 15 years ago. The world has changed a lot, and they can’t afford to keep it the way it was. The cartel now runs the region and they have no power here.
    El Nogalar is a play that shows the lower class rising against the upper class, and that position does not equal power. It shows that time does not stop when you aren’t there, and it teaches powerful lessons about self-centrism. It is written in a way that promotes thinking, and will leave the audience wanting to know more about the current condition of Mexico, as well as the importance of family.

    please refrain from using bad language in your assignments
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post


    Been wanting to say that when game ended lol.
    The best emote.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I do think that Ghost is perhaps not a fun role to play against as neutral though. That probably should've been considered for longer. You can't shut down a whole mafia or town team as ghost. But you can shut down a whole neutral faction which just seems unfair.
    Yeaaaaah, we should've picked up on the fact ghost haunting an evil neutral forever might not be super fun lol... sorry for that. That said, I still had a ton of fun ^^ I hope everyone did as well; the game looks like it was mostly enjoyed, except for that kinda sad ending.

    Also, I'm a little disappointed that literally the entire scum team was as simple as LITERALLY ALL THE LURKERS (minus Lily). That's quite rare lol.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    yeah go and f
    im a such a bad player that my team is winning and you got caught by a read sod2 xD haha
    meanwhile i never even got checked and never will
    hahahaha go and take a walk
    Mizery is in a pretty.... miserable situation rn, and she didn't exactly play into it, so no need to be rude lol. She's not even aligned with anyone else
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    oh ok
    yeah scumbot pocketed me guya over the course of the game, i always noticwd this
    he was there when i was pushed the strongest
    ut was cozy and warm
    now i will burn it
    arghhhhhh
    -vote scumbot5679

    heard you got conf towned??
    I got evil-teacher'd with Huo, according to Mizery, and we're alive, so Huo and I are aligned

    Actually, just read Martin's summary lol, it's clear
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    For our trees in this town please stop becoming trees. Hold your vote power. Its what we need right now
    You don't accept me as I am!


    (but yes obviously lol)
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    honestly idek how im alive today
    if we already have 2 neuts dead there is no evil teacher coz there is bounty hunter? so why did we have 2 deaths every night so far?
    @oliverz144 I had the same brain bug lol. Wild Card can act as any role, so it acted as bounty hunter to make us believe it existed, basically. There's no BH, and there is an evil teacher, who is very likely to be Mizery (who is controlled by pro-town ghost).

    Also, I think scumbot is more likely scum than you, you're kinda towny so
    -vote scumbot5679
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Luka View Post
    Wisp
    Quit insulting Wisp, he's nice
    no DM i dont forgive you for your playstyle this game lol
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Okay so I think I got this down into one post.



    this makes sense actually, as otherwise it'd be very likely one of Martin/Luka/Helz/Huo would've died

    therefore one of us must be town, or both, we just don't know that yet

    Therefore, if there are no red flips in Oliver/Scumbot, the only realistically possible team is MM/Huo -- supposedly Mizery, the evil teacher, tried killing MM/Huo on n1 and since it didn't happen they're the same alignment.

    If there is a red flip, that clears MM. This narrows things down to

    Luka/red flip
    Martin/red flip
    DM/red flip

    With that knowledge, we can figure out exactly which by doing the following:



    The evil teacher will detect if I am mafia -- we already know MM is town if there is a red flip from lynching Oli/Scumbot -- and if I am indeed mafia I get one too many stab wounds alongside MM.

    The teacher check on MM + Luka will tell us if they're the same or not. If they're not, Luka is just outed since we know MM is town from the hypothetical red flip.

    In the event that neither MM or I die, and Luka is revealed to be the same as MM, we can conclude that every one of us is town.

    Which then reveals the final and only possibility:

    DM/red flip



    Since ghost is town-siding and controls evil teacher, only way to fuck with this plan is either not following the plan, Mizery lying to us (I doubt it), or the mafia NK. That is why by protecting Helz (as in, both me AND luka) we can ensure Helz lives through the next day to force a bride and instantly solve the game (or get extremely close to, I didn't math every possibility).
    Thanks for the very clear summary, it's very much appreciated xD. I hate reading through mech stuff to make sense out of it

    Also, this plan seems good, assuming Mizery isn't scum, but that's unlikely enough imo. If she is indeed scum, Varcron will know what she said is bs and will be able to attack her with the real evil teacher anyway.

    I don't think there's anything missing here. But umm... is there anything left to actually do at this point lol
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Ok i'm out i'm evil teacher but there's no way for me to do anything because from now on the ghost has control over my role card. Please lynch me.
    STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM

    I was utterly confused when the flip occured because I didn't realize wild card could usurp other abilities lol (or rather, I knew, but had long forgotten about it...), but everything makes sense now, and our lives are MUCH more simple. I also thank Varcron for this super optimal kill on Lily lol, and apologize for having misread her can't say she helped it, though.

    If we could trust Mizery's claim, we should keep her as our pet scum murderer and lynch her last lol. That said, I don't think we have any reliable way to verify what she's saying, and she's 100 % not town according to Huo, so lynching her isn't bad per se, it just might not be optimal. I think we should hunt for other scums (mafia) today.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    He said he gave Cat to Oliver.
    Then Oliver needs to confirm/deny
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    what

    -vote BwcPorscha


    I guess? Selfpres
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Aaaalright, I think that's it lol, and noone's moving. The power of reevaluation isn't very strong with you, eh?

    Spoiler : the top secret game solve :


    GJ on your town-cide. Or ecocide, I guess, since I'm a tree. There will be more CO2 in the atmosphere due to you.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by scumbot5679 View Post
    ["im cat lady" is the post before that in his ISO]
    I forgot n2 but I targeted varcron n1. I've sent my cat to oli just to confirm my role but if you think it would be better used elsewhere I could change it real fast
    Had missed this. Targeted a dead man N1 and "forgot" N2...?? What? That's thoroughly silly. An investigative doesn't forget who he investigates lmao - just for that, it sounds more like evil cat lady.

    It's indeed bad play if scum, though, I don't see why he'd claim that and not something else. Very weird. At the very least, he needs to pick a target that will allow him to confirm himself somehow.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Mm you think luka can be a wolf? No real read on him that you gave when I thought you were townreading him earlier
    Yes. My townread on him was light, as indicated by what should be a light green-yellowish color and a low position in the town part of my old colorful readslist. He exists, he says things.... has he actually done anything that puts him out of the range of being scum? no. Has he claimed? no. He's more or less coasting on a favourable impression that everyone seems to give him. He absolutely could be town playing a relatively low-profile game, that's not excluded at all, but the other options aren't either.

    If I had time, I'd ISO him, but I don't think that's super appropriate here lol.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    A subject that has not been brought up is BwcPorscha

    How does everyone feel about them? I kind of sense most people have a pretty null opinion and they are sliding under the radar.
    I felt good about them earlier, mostly due to tone iirc. It's just that they disappeared, basically, which is weird. If I had to lynch an under-the-radar slot, though, it would be Scumbot before Porscha.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Aaaaalll right, then I'm going for the legacy post, because it looks like you're all going to do this.

    Helz - duh
    Martin - Probably still town, although he's playing pretty poorly right now; that argument saying "b-but the meta clears on Lily!! I must sheep them!!!" while ignoring everything else was very bad lol, and if there's something strange to look at, that's a good start
    DM - Town or evil teacher; fairly possible he's evil teacher, and the protective should claim if he protected him N1, else his claim is fake and the reason he survived the N1 attack was simply his anti-Mafia immunity
    Oliverz - looks towny enough. Strange but "natural" progression for him, also still liked his D1 (cf. him being very happy to have "caught" Baker). Wouldn't touch.
    Huo - should be town, believable claim, needs to bring in valuable info though, if there's STILL no valuable info tomorrow, they would get slightly suspicious imo, but ehh.

    Porscha - where are youuuuu, possibly voice of reason but also voice that doesn't exist I think you're probably town, but you're not here enough for me to judge well
    Luka - not sure tbh

    Mizery - Kinda felt genuine lately, so I don't know anymore tbh, but not super towny for sure

    Lily - JUST LYNCH/PROPOSE/WHATEVER HER, FOR GOD'S SAKE XD. I AM DEAD (OR WILL BE IN LIKE 15 MIN), AND I COMPEL YOU FROM HEAVEN. FOLLOW THE DAMN LEAD.
    Scumbot - Disappeared. Is watching the world burn. Has had his vote on me for reasons unknown. Is coasting away with a relatively fine consensus on him, one that should allow him to survive. VERY SUSPICIOUS. Potential BH in my opinion.
    Cape - still obviously scum


    Don't think I'm missing anything.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    To elaborate, as a town that gives them a confirmed chance but they aren’t taking the confirmed chance and also Helz cannot die at night.
    He cannot "be killed at night" due to bounty, but that doesn't mean he's invincible. Does Bride die of heartbreak if his lover dies, regardless of bounty, considering it's not actually getting "killed"? @powerofdeath
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    If literally everyone is out to kill me, then yes, I will accept lol, simply because lynching town today = abysmal, but that's a shitty shot
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall

    If I propose to you will you accept to sort your slot?
    That's... abysmal. What, am I supposed to root and become a tree too afterwards? I don't think that makes any sense, since we'd lack town votes at some point. It's better than straight up spending the lynch on me, but it's very bloody trash. My answer is no, not unless I'm straight up dying anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    To tell you the truth

    You sound like scum annoyed that is getting caught by poe/ and/or reasons that seem bs to you
    Just remove "scum" from here and you'll be right, because this is entirely bullshit lol, and I don't need to be scum to find it dumb
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    For the record, I am very fine with being Teacher'd with Lily or Mizery tonight (whoever between them we don't lynch).

    Also, tbh, Lily is just scummier than Mizery, who's looking strangely genuine atm - although she should claim
    -vote Lilypetal


    I absolutely will selfpres if needed, but that just seems better
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    Is not just that, by logic you are in poe anyway
    but then why not Lily? why not Mizery?

    Also, it's not "not just that", that argument is literally void and null, it's entirely irrelevant, it's bogus, it's [insert any other synonym here]. There is no mech here lol
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    this is the end of the world and I know it

    this is the end of the world and I know it

    this is the end of the world and I know it

    and I feel fiiiiiinnnnnneeeeeeeeeee

    Sure. Abysmal. Whatever. I'm just trying this game and finding neutrals is hard. Can't use mafia associatives to solve for that.
    we need a "this is fine" emote, it apparently doesn't exist

    I don't mean it personally btw, it's just like... why

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Anyway, I trust Lily 100% and I’m not really sold on MM, I think both can be town.

    Also means town had an absolutely terrible rand.
    Wolf Sided Rand.

    But we can still pull through as long as neither of us mess up.

    MM and Lily need to work together for the time being and never use their Deathproof no matter what.
    The "100 %" on Lily makes no sense, though. You're basing this on a super thin interaction with Mizery that doesn't really mean anything, and on a super easily scum-doable push on Cape. That's waaaay too weak to call for a 100 % read
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    I said that, bit Magician says mech stuff go brrr, so we go you
    @Huo Huo and Mr Tail so because Magician says "mech stuff" WHILE CLAIMING LITERALLY VANILLA TOWNIE, you believe him? Okay.

    I INVOKE THE POWER OF "MECH STUFF" TOO AND SAY DM IS SPOUTING BULLSHIT. I HAVE MECHANICAL EVIDENCE THAT SAPLINGS CANNOT HAVE MECHANICAL EVIDENCE APART FROM KNOWING WHAT'S IN THE SETUP.

    There you go Huo, you're free from his evil spell and can now think for yourself about how much sense that makes. Like... saying the word "mech" doesn't magically make one right lol.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    I bet Bolded was the same question on why mafia attacked me again last night.
    Called killing myself and becoming Deathproof.
    My point was exactly what Martin brought up. I know since, you know, I AM THAT ROLE and thought about it, wondering if it could be used as a strange variant of a vest.

    If you were indeed attacked on N1, you were protected, beca--

    Or you're evil teacher... actually, is there anything going against this possibility lol? Hm. I... hmmmm. I looked at your vote history, and you literally never voted in the game, so that tells us nothing. I don't know anymore, actually.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Luka, DM, and Baker have all vouched for Lily on meta or whatever at one point or another. I kinda can't ignore that.



    there's one
    And Porscha has vouched for my case against her....... you're also ignoring LITERALLY EVERYTHING I HAVE DONE and ignoring my obviously genuine scumhunt.

    ... also wait a minute, are you justifying your choice by saying you're sheeping a D1 metaread, a supposed illumination from DM, and a meta read from a guy who's in the PoE (Luka) and whose meta tell pretty much goes against what a meta dive in Lily's past game indicates (she was active and all in that game, there is a difference with here)?

    ........ ummmm, that's pretty abysmal, actually
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    I trust Lily more.
    I called out a Cape/MM/Mizery team day 1 and I was attacked night 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Meaning at least 2 of Cape/Mizery/MM is correct and we know Cape is a wolf.
    That's an immense leap in logic. There are reasons other than being correct that lead to mafia kills, such as being widely townread (which you kinda were, iirc).

    Also, aside from that... how did you live N1?
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    although if we go by mafia 101, lily should go over before MM just from performance, but Mr Magician seems to have mech on MM Lily situation
    Magician literally claimed Sapling, Huo. How would he ever have any mech info?
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    In other news, where is @Mizery and her claim? She's just sitting back and letting the world burn rn. Should've listened to myself and waited for her to claim. Had I known half the game would go crazy lol...
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    basically town's goal is to consolidate outside of cape

    alternative is Mizery

    other alternative is you it would seem

    there doesn't seem to be other alternatives and scumbot apparently had to leave, they claimed cat lady earlier which puts them as either town or mafia and likely not-neutral

    mizery we all know is prob mafia along with cape

    I'm mostly just hoping we get evil teacher (as that's the biggest source of volatility in KP imo) and its currently looking like you, if you want my raisins then here



    Also Lily + DM make for two other sapling claims as well.
    Why the fuck do you trust Lily over me lmao
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    I CC. I am Deathproof

    MM is Wolf.
    ... are you saying we're stuck with already-voteless-slot you forever


    And NO, I AIN'T WOLF, and you're silly lol.

    If there's one sapling claim I wouldn't trust in there, it's 100 % Lily, btw.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I hate to say it but I think I'm fine with MM being in the PoE.

    Their fixation on Lily + how they interacted with me with a townread instead of any substantiative discussion earlier is really bothering me, and the fact that they claimed a Sapling(?) role has me worried.

    There's a chance they're evil teacher. I'd have some difficulty in seeing them as BH or mafia though.
    Tu quoque, fili mi...! I should bite you from inside your pocket for this

    Why would I be PUTTING MYSELF IN THE DAMN SPOTLIGHT by being so intent to push Lily AS THE DAMN EVIL TEACHER. WHY. And why would I townread you IF I DON'T HAVE TMI (which you are implying by calling me evil teacher). There's zero benefit for evil teacher!me to play this way: I could be clearing a mafia.

    This is actually surreal lol
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Okay so I'm actually being voted because I claimed lol???

    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    I mean, MM claimed sappling and lily claimed sappling
    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail View Post
    if we have 2 sapplings, this game was lost on rand xD

    -Huohuo
    Sapling is literally vanilla townie. Are you saying 2 vanilla townies in a 15p game is impossible...?? That's silly.

    Also, IN WHAT WORLD IS LILY TOWNIER THAN ME, SERIOUSLY. If you thought that there should be just 1 sapling, you should AT LEAST be voting Lily the openly useless nonsolving slot (not personal Lily btw, no hate meant, just an activity/involvement fact).
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    wait what the fuck, why am I top voted

    I'm busy atm but getting on ASAP. Have you lost your minds??

    Also I see scumbot being on my train without having said anything noticeable today, I don't like it
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    i wanted to type a photo but i will paste it out
    mm
    mizery
    martin
    scumbot
    luka
    porscha


    biggest poe for today
    What is Martin doing in there
    (and me )
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    tbh I'm not sure they're ever going to claim

    they had plenty of time and opportunity to do so

    or at least I would've claimed by this point if I were mizery
    Well, she's gone, and I don't think whatever she says will change much at this point...

    I'm a tree-hugger, minus the hugging part. Citizen with enhanced suicide ability XD
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Also
    -vote Mizery


    Claim
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    The ghost can target players PoE and force them onto cape role blocking the player / elimination of cape.

    our vengeful can target cape opening the door for eliminating them at night via Evil teacher. Also potential to mail 2 scum at once

    It lets us vote in the PoE sorting the game and maybe killing a scum.

    Lots of upside in such a play while town is hurting for ways to shoot into a scum packed PoE
    @Varcron since you might want to know what you should be doing lol.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    hah. i buy dms read on lily.

    towncore:
    oli
    helz
    lily
    dm
    huo huo


    scum
    cape



    others
    you're TOWNCORING lily based on DM's weak stuff? Sorry but umm... have you lost your mind?
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    ►►Re: S-FM 355: Nonstandard Roles 3◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I’m kinda down with any of those. Luka is less likely mafia in my book but I feel our chances are great shooting into such a PoE. Will take some time to read into players when I wrap this project up and get home
    Among that PoE, I'd be more surprised if Porscha were scum than if Luka were, but I have no super massive objection to either, although they're definetly not my first picks. The PoE is great overall, though; if we could blow all of them up, we'd probably win lol.

    Also, Luka, I agree with pretty much all of what you said about claiming, but before any of that happens, Mizery should claim. She's the main suspect and the most likely lynch, so she should be the one going out in the open so that she can't hide well if she's scum.
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