Search:

So I've been reading about this lately, mostly to educate myself a little and maybe not look totally ignorant when posting in this topic. As Marshall points out, the modern state of Israel hasn't been around that long but we do know that the Jewish people were living there when the Romans annexed the area in the first century. And there was an Iron Age Kingdom of Israel and Jueda. So if the question is "who was there first?" then I think its clearly the "jews". Islam didn't even exist until the 7th century. Although it seems like both groups are descended from local semite tribes and the biblical tradition is that both groups are descended from half brothers. (though that last part might be more Quran than Bible) MM does a pretty good job of answering Ozzy's questions but I wanted to add a maybe more...historical context, though I'm not claiming to be a historian or anything.

I think I was already a little bias since I feel like Israel has the right to defend itself or retaliate when attacked and its citizens are killed and captured. I did go back and forth a bit but I think I'm still more pro-israel/anti-hamas after reading and listening to youtube stuffs.

I also think that the guy Martin is quoting is fairly wrong.

So I've been reading about this lately, mostly to educate myself a little and maybe not look totally ignorant when posting in this topic. As Marshall points out, the modern state of Israel hasn't been around that long but we do know that the Jewish people were living there when the Romans annexed the area in the first century. And there was an Iron Age Kingdom of Israel and Jueda. So if the question is "who was there first?" then I think its clearly the "jews". Islam didn't even exist until the 7th century. Although it seems like both groups are descended from local semite tribes and the biblical tradition is that both groups are descended from half brothers. (though that last part might be more Quran than Bible) MM does a pretty good job of answering Ozzy's questions but I wanted to add a maybe more...historical context, though I'm not claiming to be a historian or anything.

I think I was already a little bias since I feel like Israel has the right to defend itself or retaliate when attacked and its citizens are killed and captured. I did go back and forth a bit but I think I'm still more pro-israel/anti-hamas after reading and listening to youtube stuffs.

I also think that the guy Martin is quoting is fairly wrong.

[QUOTE=Dark Magician;996218]It’s scum sided due to there being 3 Saplings which are arguably bad roles for toen.[/QUOTE]

maybe but no one is forcing them to become deathproof. They are only "bad" if you guys mass tree'd so I think I sorta agree with POD when he says that saplings are kinda like vts. My sense of "balance" is if we are equating saplings to vts there'd be 5 (or 6 in lumis setup) but I think the chance that town just mass tree would have been slim to begin with. I think POD and Martin would say that the reason that there were only 3 "vts" is b/c they were balancing the 3rd parties and I guess, I'm not suggesting that im a mechanic pro or anything and as I said b4, "balance is subjective".

no way this was scum sided set up though. You could maybe argue it wasn't as townsided as I feel it was or that I'm just being salty that I lost but I legit don't think you could objectively say this was balanced though I guess its possible that I could just be looking at it from the POV of role madness and open/semi open setups being town sided (and yeah there prob is a trickle od salt)

Originally Posted by Dark Magician

It’s scum sided due to there being 3 Saplings which are arguably bad roles for toen.

maybe but no one is forcing them to become deathproof. They are only "bad" if you guys mass tree'd so I think I sorta agree with POD when he says that saplings are kinda like vts. My sense of "balance" is if we are equating saplings to vts there'd be 5 (or 6 in lumis setup) but I think the chance that town just mass tree would have been slim to begin with. I think POD and Martin would say that the reason that there were only 3 "vts" is b/c they were balancing the 3rd parties and I guess, I'm not suggesting that im a mechanic pro or anything and as I said b4, "balance is subjective".

no way this was scum sided set up though. You could maybe argue it wasn't as townsided as I feel it was or that I'm just being salty that I lost but I legit don't think you could objectively say this was balanced though I guess its possible that I could just be looking at it from the POV of role madness and open/semi open setups being town sided (and yeah there prob is a trickle od salt)

I did wonder if we just keep try harding Luka could have maybe slipped by but the odds were prob against him at that point.

I did wonder if we just keep try harding Luka could have maybe slipped by but the odds were prob against him at that point.

One other thing that I've noticed that has become more prevalent through the years are "3rd parties" that can win with town and other 3p like a sk...they just almost always "townside" so I think thats just further stacking the deck for town.

One other thing that I've noticed that has become more prevalent through the years are "3rd parties" that can win with town and other 3p like a sk...they just almost always "townside" so I think thats just further stacking the deck for town.

I think a decent rule of thumb is mountainous is scumsided while role madness is townsided so the goal is to put it somewhere in between. Balance is subjective but I believe that role madness can rarely be balanced simply b/c town has a disproportionate amount of power. In this game, scum had a 1x janitor which isn't super helpful in a way, a conditional roleblock/rolecop (and I don't even get to decide how it's used), and a delayed lynch.

I also think open/semi-open setups are town sided as well. Even though "montianess is scumsided" I can certainly understand that it's still winable by town. I've long postulated mafia (this game) is just "pro-town" since giving town a majority is somewhat hard to overcome. I mean certainly, if the town is full of new/bad players scum could walk all over them but I think most town are fairly competent so a simple majority is just not favorable for scum.

Part of me didn't want to say anything since it might be kinda rude but it got brought up and so I want to adress it. I feel like the lack of scum talk wasn't really my fault. I came in n1 and asked who they wanted to kill and then no one talked about it and luka and cape just weren't participating so I just sort of gave up. Maybe thats bad leadership on my part and I should have just relentlessly tried to get them to talk about who we should kill and who to cat etc.

We did get pretty unlucky with the n1 no kill so I think you are probs right that scum lost mostly to mechanics/bad luck but we didn't utilize one of our biggest strengths: that being planning and strategizing. Had we, I'm not sure if it would have put us over the edge or anything but if we had made better use of our actions if might have felt closer at least.

I think that teacher/backup (though the backup getting the teach role was mostly luck)/soul mate combo just made it a follow the cop game.

I think a decent rule of thumb is mountainous is scumsided while role madness is townsided so the goal is to put it somewhere in between. Balance is subjective but I believe that role madness can rarely be balanced simply b/c town has a disproportionate amount of power. In this game, scum had a 1x janitor which isn't super helpful in a way, a conditional roleblock/rolecop (and I don't even get to decide how it's used), and a delayed lynch.

I also think open/semi-open setups are town sided as well. Even though "montianess is scumsided" I can certainly understand that it's still winable by town. I've long postulated mafia (this game) is just "pro-town" since giving town a majority is somewhat hard to overcome. I mean certainly, if the town is full of new/bad players scum could walk all over them but I think most town are fairly competent so a simple majority is just not favorable for scum.

Part of me didn't want to say anything since it might be kinda rude but it got brought up and so I want to adress it. I feel like the lack of scum talk wasn't really my fault. I came in n1 and asked who they wanted to kill and then no one talked about it and luka and cape just weren't participating so I just sort of gave up. Maybe thats bad leadership on my part and I should have just relentlessly tried to get them to talk about who we should kill and who to cat etc.

We did get pretty unlucky with the n1 no kill so I think you are probs right that scum lost mostly to mechanics/bad luck but we didn't utilize one of our biggest strengths: that being planning and strategizing. Had we, I'm not sure if it would have put us over the edge or anything but if we had made better use of our actions if might have felt closer at least.

I think that teacher/backup (though the backup getting the teach role was mostly luck)/soul mate combo just made it a follow the cop game.

while I don't want to die at all it's preferable to get to potentially take a scum don't with me instead of just outright dying. Can't wait to see Helz and DM's reactions when I town flip.

[vote]oliverz144[/vote]

while I don't want to die at all it's preferable to get to potentially take a scum don't with me instead of just outright dying. Can't wait to see Helz and DM's reactions when I town flip.

-vote oliverz144

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;996110]er
[MENTION=46573]scumbot5679[/MENTION]

Basically please send your cat to one of Martin/DM. If Oli is mafia vengeful he may try to kill Helz in which case that leaves you open to do a check.[/QUOTE]

If Oliver doesn't kill me then I will

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

er
@scumbot5679

Basically please send your cat to one of Martin/DM. If Oli is mafia vengeful he may try to kill Helz in which case that leaves you open to do a check.

If Oliver doesn't kill me then I will

[QUOTE=powerofdeath;996073]No, the cat will mourns and go cry somewhere[/QUOTE]

why would ANYONE want to do that to my poor kitty?

Originally Posted by powerofdeath

No, the cat will mourns and go cry somewhere

why would ANYONE want to do that to my poor kitty?

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;996069]make me believe you are not frozen.

[/QUOTE]
i let it go

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

make me believe you are not frozen.

i let it go

I have 0 control over oliverz ability so if he decides to kill me then he just does but if he were a town vengeful then he shouldn't b/c I'm town and I just don't understand why anyone thinks I'm not. I kinda get MM's though since guy is mad that I've been calling him scum since d2.

I have 0 control over oliverz ability so if he decides to kill me then he just does but if he were a town vengeful then he shouldn't b/c I'm town and I just don't understand why anyone thinks I'm not. I kinda get MM's though since guy is mad that I've been calling him scum since d2.

???? Didn't DM used to like me? what changed?

???? Didn't DM used to like me? what changed?

no, its fine im just saying that if it were a oliver/martin team then he's not going to kill martin like you guys want. it would have to be oliver/dm to get a dead martin

no, its fine im just saying that if it were a oliver/martin team then he's not going to kill martin like you guys want. it would have to be oliver/dm to get a dead martin

if oliver is a mafia venge then he'll just kill town though.

if oliver is a mafia venge then he'll just kill town though.

I'm just town and I don't get why helz suspects me at all

I'm just town and I don't get why helz suspects me at all

but I could have targeted elsewhere.

but I could have targeted elsewhere.

oh right, i forgot about that

oh right, i forgot about that

but miz' claim is true, i just saw MM say "if we can trust" and my gut reaction was like "I just investigated her dude!" + I was already mad sus of the slot and im tunneling lol

but miz' claim is true, i just saw MM say "if we can trust" and my gut reaction was like "I just investigated her dude!" + I was already mad sus of the slot and im tunneling lol

or maybe I misread that IDK

or maybe I misread that IDK

I swear MM has to be scum b/c he keeps saying the dumbest things imaginable. Hello, cat lady here.

I swear MM has to be scum b/c he keeps saying the dumbest things imaginable. Hello, cat lady here.

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;995935]Wild card is not a cult smh[/QUOTE]

oh I get it now, i think. porscha was like her own little faction?

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

Wild card is not a cult smh

oh I get it now, i think. porscha was like her own little faction?

Wasn't DM the one that asked me to switch from oli to miz and then argued that oli would confirm/deny me? IDK it just seems odd and there's like 4 wilds so this is prob a wild win. My tinfoil is that the wilds pushed an MM lynch so they could sit there and spend the next 3 days hunting mafia.

Wasn't DM the one that asked me to switch from oli to miz and then argued that oli would confirm/deny me? IDK it just seems odd and there's like 4 wilds so this is prob a wild win. My tinfoil is that the wilds pushed an MM lynch so they could sit there and spend the next 3 days hunting mafia.

[vote]Marshmallow Marshall[/vote]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

i need to start getting ready, where do I put my vote...cape or MM?

i need to start getting ready, where do I put my vote...cape or MM?

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;995671]who is miz[/QUOTE]

you are boring as a troll, I think I liked it better when you were cosplaying as an anime girl

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

who is miz

you are boring as a troll, I think I liked it better when you were cosplaying as an anime girl

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;995667]Miz?[/QUOTE]

DM wants me to target miz

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

Miz?

DM wants me to target miz

or hey, maybe I'm not evil b/c I'm not using my role in a anti-town matter

or hey, maybe I'm not evil b/c I'm not using my role in a anti-town matter

I mean, all Miz has to do is claim that she didn't get my cat and I become a free mislynch

I mean, all Miz has to do is claim that she didn't get my cat and I become a free mislynch

I've also been calling MM scum so fine voting there

I've also been calling MM scum so fine voting there

I forgot n2 but I targeted varcron n1. I've sent my cat to oli just to confirm my role but if you think it would be better used elsewhere I could change it real fast

I forgot n2 but I targeted varcron n1. I've sent my cat to oli just to confirm my role but if you think it would be better used elsewhere I could change it real fast

im cat lady

im cat lady

[QUOTE=Dark Magician;995627]If I could vote I would vote this[/QUOTE]

why?

Originally Posted by Dark Magician

If I could vote I would vote this

why?

[QUOTE=oliverz144;995612]yeah hihihi hahaha im soooo oooo totally scum[/QUOTE]

I have infact been town reading you the entire game but I mean, even if you guys (wrongly) think I'm scum there are still 4 scum, not counting Cape, do you honestly think they are going to town read me?

Originally Posted by oliverz144

yeah hihihi hahaha im soooo oooo totally scum

I have infact been town reading you the entire game but I mean, even if you guys (wrongly) think I'm scum there are still 4 scum, not counting Cape, do you honestly think they are going to town read me?

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;995594][vote]scumbot5679[/vote]

just throwing an idea out there[/QUOTE]

Why is me not town reading scum, scummy?

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

-vote scumbot5679

just throwing an idea out there

Why is me not town reading scum, scummy?

i have been very busy lately and I have to go soon anyways since I have a meeting @ 4:30 but I'm not scum so anyone that has me in thier POE is either wrong or scum themselves.

i have been very busy lately and I have to go soon anyways since I have a meeting @ 4:30 but I'm not scum so anyone that has me in thier POE is either wrong or scum themselves.

you are town though but that's our little secret so shhhh

you are town though but that's our little secret so shhhh

tbf, you are a dark magician and dark sort of has an evil connection so....

tbf, you are a dark magician and dark sort of has an evil connection so....

you guys knew how I knew varcron was scum? Dud argued that he was town b/c he was voting cape. I think I was the first but I know Lly also mentioned it-that scum are just gonna bus or hop onto his wagon from the town cred but its not like we are doing anything other than cape so....

[vote]cape90 [/vote]

you guys knew how I knew varcron was scum? Dud argued that he was town b/c he was voting cape. I think I was the first but I know Lly also mentioned it-that scum are just gonna bus or hop onto his wagon from the town cred but its not like we are doing anything other than cape so....

-vote cape90

What was the plan?

What was the plan?

killing cape is bad from the pov of an evil teacher b/c he's a not them lynch and thats good for them b/c everyday we lynch someone there's the possibility that we do them so they would want to keep as much mislynchbait around as they can.

killing cape is bad from the pov of an evil teacher b/c he's a not them lynch and thats good for them b/c everyday we lynch someone there's the possibility that we do them so they would want to keep as much mislynchbait around as they can.

we are saying its

BH
ghost
evil teacher

we are saying its

BH
ghost
evil teacher

[QUOTE=Lilypetal;995184]boring[/QUOTE]

so what do you plan to do for the next 48 hours?

Originally Posted by Lilypetal

boring

so what do you plan to do for the next 48 hours?

I'm not ignoring cape lol

I'm not ignoring cape lol

I guess that is a possibility that the evil teacher visted awut and varacron

I guess that is a possibility that the evil teacher visted awut and varacron

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;995162]And you think i would claim i visited varcron as evil teacher[/QUOTE]

it just makes it WIFOM. It happens all the time. + I'm just excited that maybe I was right after all.

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

And you think i would claim i visited varcron as evil teacher

it just makes it WIFOM. It happens all the time. + I'm just excited that maybe I was right after all.

[QUOTE=Huo Huo and Mr Tail;995142]So correct me if i'm wrong but there's has to be an evil teacher right?

-Huohuo[/QUOTE]

im mostly reacting to huo that thinks varacron was an evil teacher kill but why should I think awut was an evil teacher or wolf kill over varcron?

Originally Posted by Huo Huo and Mr Tail

So correct me if i'm wrong but there's has to be an evil teacher right?

-Huohuo

im mostly reacting to huo that thinks varacron was an evil teacher kill but why should I think awut was an evil teacher or wolf kill over varcron?

[QUOTE=Mizery;995155]What[/QUOTE]

if a wolf guesses someone's role they get eaten. To suggest that a wolf guessed that Varcron was a ghost seems outthere to me. Its much more simple that think that an evil teacher visited varcron. + huo is outright claiming they did so...

Originally Posted by Mizery

What

if a wolf guesses someone's role they get eaten. To suggest that a wolf guessed that Varcron was a ghost seems outthere to me. Its much more simple that think that an evil teacher visited varcron. + huo is outright claiming they did so...

tbh, you could very easily both be scum here.

tbh, you could very easily both be scum here.

We all knew (well me) knew Varacron was scum but a ghost guess seems far fetched so occams just says evil teacher

We all knew (well me) knew Varacron was scum but a ghost guess seems far fetched so occams just says evil teacher

that is my understanding

that is my understanding

like I think he's being honest with his other readz but the mechanical ones he's just mucking around.

like I think he's being honest with his other readz but the mechanical ones he's just mucking around.