Expand Blacklist and Prefer to Groups

[Brigade]

Due to the fact that -blacklist and -prefer were implemented in the beginnings of the game, the majority of games nowadays include a lot of random role groups, not to mention that the number of roles in the game have increased quite a bit;

I suggest that we allow up to 3x -blacklist group (Town Random, Neutral Evil, Mafia Random etc.) as well as up to 3 specific roles. Also allow the same option for -prefer.

It will make it easy to outlaw certain role types (I can't stand doctor or escort, so instead of taking up 2x -blacklist spots I can cover both with Town Protective), but not game-breaking so long as it's limited to up to 3 groups in addition to 3 roles.

Plus it'd be a big boost in hunting down those last few elusive roles that you might need to win with between 10 and 20k for all roles or other achievements. =)

Thanks Much

[Damus_Graves]

Personally against.

These are privilege that are not meant to break the balance of the game.
If we allow someone to blacklist almost everything or prefer such things it ruins what the basics of these abilities were for.

[kyle1234513]

-blacklist town protective, town investigative, town random, pretty much guarantees a strong town role like jailor or mayor, or significantly increases chance of being mafia or neutral.

and what about roles that fit into more than one category? like veteran, sheriff, doctor

overall i would say no because you would be able to blacklist more than 5 roles with this.

[Deantwo]

i am also against this idea...

but when MM was added we increased -blacklist by one (from 5 to 6) because of there being more roles in the game... should it be increased again? thoughts?

[cxx]

To blacklist groups would be somehow broken and it is hard to cope with it in a reasonable way. (You would need to exclude Any Random, Town Random and Mafia Random. Then deal specifically with fixed roles and role group changes regarding the setting. Also, you would be able to blacklist about 15 roles by blacklisting 3 role groups).

Anyhow, as this thread already exists: I would enjoy seeing the blacklist size increased from 6 to 7.

Before last content patch:
34 roles, blacklist size of 6. (17.6%)

After content patch:
40 roles, blacklist size of 7. (17.5%)

Regarding the new roles, a blacklist size of 7 would be very reasonable and proportional.

[kyle1234513]

i am also against this idea...

but when MM was added we increased -blacklist by one because of there being more role in the game... should it be increased again? thought?

imo blacklist is fine where it is, if players have this many roles that they "hate" its just like, what roles "do" you like. and if theyre just trying to get a certain role at this specific time, they should have to work for -prefer.

[Deantwo]

imo blacklist is fine where it is, if players have this many roles that they "hate" its just like, what roles "do" you like. and if theyre just trying to get a certain role at this specific time, they should have to work for -prefer.

i agree

just wanted to bring it up ^^;

i hardly ever use(d) -blacklist anyway

[ika]

i agree that an increase should exist due to the fact that 4 new roles has been added.

i dont think it would be too much effort to increase it.

@kyle do you know how long it takes for people to get to 20k points? even then it doesnt garentted the roles it just increases the chance of you getting it

[Damus_Graves]

If it gets bumped it would only be bumped one more slot for blacklist and 0 for prefer imo. These are some OP abilities tbh

[kyle1234513]

i agree that an increase should exist due to the fact that 4 new roles has been added.

i dont think it would be too much effort to increase it.

@kyle do you know how long it takes for people to get to 20k points? even then it doesnt garentted the roles it just increases the chance of you getting it

its about 1000 games for -prefer, give or take 100. so at an average of 5 games per day... so about 200 days, or if you prefer average of 24minutes per game, it would be 400hours of playing mafia. imo thats also fine, it should be reserved for the most dedicated players.

[Cryptonic]

If it gets bumped it would only be bumped one more slot for blacklist and 0 for prefer imo. These are some OP abilities tbh

when 2 roles were released, blacklist was bumped by 1.
so, with 6 roles, should be 2-3 imo

[ika]

when 2 roles were released, blacklist was bumped by 1.
so, with 6 roles, should be 2-3 imo

in b4 blacklist entire town

[TheComedian]

I got a suggestion:

What about the game remembers my -blacklist so I don't have to type it every time..........

[kyle1234513]

I got a suggestion:

What about the game remembers my -blacklist so I don't have to type it every time..........

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i agree 100%
and if you want to change it for this game in particular, for any reason whatsoever you just clear it by typing -blacklist ROLE, ROLE2, etc etc
and from then on those roles would be blacklisted

[cxx]

The blacklist being saveable would require a new bank file format, so it's very unlikely to be realized.

[TheComedian]

The blacklist being saveable would require a new bank file format, so it's very unlikely to be realized.

I don't know what that means, but if it's a file with lines of code, can't you just add a line without touching the other lines?

Unless it's Blizzards?

in b4 blacklist entire town

Love Crier! Then I can teach people how to -lw

...

[cxx]

Of course it's possible, but you would need to write or modify at least 3 procedures, not to mention the new file format itself.

If you want to increase the blacklist size by 1, you need to change one digit in the code. That doesn't even take 2 minutes.

[Brigade]

At the very least .. especially if you're thinking of expanding BL .. increase the time you can do it. Tough to type out 6 roles in 15 seconds. An extra 5 seconds would be nice.

[Lazers]

At the very least .. especially if you're thinking of expanding BL .. increase the time you can do it. Tough to type out 6 roles in 15 seconds. An extra 5 seconds would be nice.

Are you kidding me

Do you type with one finger

[kyle1234513]

Are you kidding me

Do you type with one finger

my problem is clicking help before it disapears to see who else is in the room and their current points, games played, achievments etc etc. that takes up at least 5-7seconds for me, leaving about 5-10seconds to type 5 roles, and or repick, and yell at the room to type repick as well (because i dont want to be in a room with 8 criers and 3 marshalls)

[ika]

my problem is clicking help before it disapears to see who else is in the room and their current points, games played, achievments etc etc. that takes up at least 5-7seconds for me, leaving about 5-10seconds to type 5 roles, and or repick, and yell at the room to type repick as well (because i dont want to be in a room with 8 criers and 3 marshalls)

thats why copy and paste exist

[Brigade]

Are you kidding me

Do you type with one finger

Actually I type about 150 WPM .. however scanning over the list to see what confirmed roles I do NOT want, and the occasional typo/forgot comma requires it to be retyped out again.

I don't BL the same 6 roles every game .. I adjust it according to what's listed. And if they've been trading host/adjusting things, that gives me about 15 seconds to throw everything into a line of code. I usually make it, but occasionally not.

[Brigade]

its about 1000 games for -prefer, give or take 100. so at an average of 5 games per day... so about 200 days, or if you prefer average of 24minutes per game, it would be 400hours of playing mafia. imo thats also fine, it should be reserved for the most dedicated players.

You suggesting that one averages 20 points/game? Seems a bit high .. you only get 5-10 points for a loss.

Multply your estimate by a factor of about 3-4 .. those numbers get a bit scary.

[Cryptonic]

I think blacklist should always be able to be used, you should be able to blacklist as many roles as you want, and it costs 10 points a role to blacklist.

[creedkingsx]

Do 3 staple roles you will always blacklist and allot for 3 adjustable. That way, while your scanning, you can type the first three and be ready to transition to the second three easier.

[kyle1234513]

You suggesting that one averages 20 points/game? Seems a bit high .. you only get 5-10 points for a loss.

Multply your estimate by a factor of about 3-4 .. those numbers get a bit scary.

consider achievments too, its like your first 2000 points are handed to you, with all roles +500, + your last role means you also fill in all town or all mafia or all neutrals which is another 100. so that's a free 600 points just for winning a few games.

[maccabbe]

There are too many potential problems with blacklisting groups but I don't see the problem with preferring groups.

[creedkingsx]

There are too many potential problems with blacklisting groups but I don't see the problem with preferring groups.

I can agree with thsi depending on how the prefer groups are setup.

[Myrtroll]

Increase blacklist # gets a vote from me. Possible prefer group is good also, but not necessary.

[TheComedian]

Allow players to Unlock blacklist and preferlist slots gradually (and thereby the first slot earlier), as they increase points.
This instead of unlocking all slots at 10K and 20K, which takes ages.

Also the Prefer and Blacklist could be managed with a menu you can open with a command, and could also be saved in your profile, so you don't have to type it each time.

However, all this obviously requires some programming work...

[creedkingsx]

Can't do saving blacklists and such.

[Brigade]

consider achievments too, its like your first 2000 points are handed to you, with all roles +500, + your last role means you also fill in all town or all mafia or all neutrals which is another 100. so that's a free 600 points just for winning a few games.

Bear in mind .. i was @ about 6k points and still missing 2 evil roles for all roles achievement before my points got scewed up .. this was after MM dropped.

I've had points restored since, and I'm still missing 3 town, 2 mafia, and 1 evil role (even with -blacklist option) .. getting all roles isn't easy, not only do you have to roll it, you have to win with it. IIRC, I'm about 200 games in and only earned about 5k points over those games. 25 points/game (roughly) but including achievements that are one-shot bonuses .. that rate is going to taper off pretty quickly to bring the average down.

[Raptorblaze]

I'm entirely against this.

[Slaol]

We will not be considering this change. The more likely change to blacklist or prefer would be removal of the system. It will not be expanded.

[Raptorblaze]

[8:00:13 PM] DarkRevenant: @rap: no