S-FM 193: Final Fantasy VII

[SuperJack]

Is this another "terrible reaction test", SuperJack? It really doesn't do anything to give a read with nothing explaining why you think that way.

It's called reading back.

[DarknessB]

It's called reading back.

Sure, that's fine -- mind explaining to the rest of us why you think that way? It's not helpful to say "I think GameFreak is Town because I looked at his past posts" either. I feel like you are trying to be deliberately obtuse and unhelpful this game, lol.

[Gyrlander]

Why would they? Makes no sense.

Scum just attacked scum. Or maybe the same person LOL.

Scum attacked scum? 2/12 chance. Which is actually very low.

[powerofdeath]

Why would they? Makes no sense.

Scum just attacked scum. Or maybe the same person LOL.

Why would both scum attack the sword guy? More importantly why would even 1 scum attack him.

[DarknessB]

Why would both scum attack the sword guy? More importantly why would even 1 scum attack him.

My theory is that it was a Bus Driver who flipped Excalibur (useless empty slot AFKer) with someone else. No one in their right mind would attack Excalibur.

[SuperJack]

My theory is that it was a Bus Driver who flipped Excalibur (useless empty slot AFKer) with someone else. No one in their right mind would attack Excalibur.

You seem confident.

[powerofdeath]

There's also always the infamous WIFOM "no night kill" plan, but since Sen isn't playing in this game, I can't imagine that would happen.

Tonex from M-FM Voodoo was a Serial Killer who didnt start killing until all Cultists died. Could be possible.

[Gyrlander]

One question, are people who get bussed informed?

[powerofdeath]

My theory is that it was a Bus Driver who flipped Excalibur (useless empty slot AFKer) with someone else. No one in their right mind would attack Excalibur.

It's possible but someone would need to reveal it before we can go along with that idea.

[DarknessB]

One question, are people who get bussed informed?

It's possible but someone would need to reveal it before we can go along with that idea.

There is nothing to indicate that bussed players are notified per the BD role card:

Palmer
Target two players at night, switching their places which causes night actions that target one of the swapped players to be redirected to the other one.
Your first named target will count as the first target.
You may self target.

[SuperJack]

It's possible but someone would need to reveal it before we can go along with that idea.

Yes!

Bus Driver please reveal.

[Shifty]

One question, are people who get bussed informed?

No, targets are not informed of being bussed

[DarknessB]

Here's another pet theory:

Manipulate Materia
Target two players at night, manipulating your first target into visiting your second target.
Your first named target will count as the first target.
Gives no feedback to the user.

If anyone used this to send someone to visit Excalibur, speak up, lol.

[powerofdeath]

Yes!

Bus Driver please reveal.

I meant the victim, but since its not informed, I wouldnt recommend it.

[DarknessB]

I meant the victim, but since its not informed, I wouldnt recommend it.

Yeah, that would be up there with MBC claiming he vested as a Citizen in your Gun and Hooker game -- except of course that Citizens didn't have vests...

[SuperJack]

@Gyrlander

Something for you.

Its Teampeak In Engish.

[SuperJack]

@Gyrlander

Something for you.

Its Teamspeak In Engish.


^ correction

[Gyrlander]

@Gyrlander

Something for you.

Its Teamspeak In Engish.


^ correction

What do u mean, bruh?

[SuperJack]

What do u mean, bruh?

Oh yah now I think I'm town reading DarknessB

[Gyrlander]

Oh yah now I think I'm town reading DarknessB

What does that have to be with my QUESTION?

And why are you start to town read him?

[DarknessB]

What does that have to be with my QUESTION?

And why are you start to town read him?

I swear -- he's just doing reaction tests or something. GameFreak wasn't explained either.

[SuperJack]

@pisskop

bring it

[powerofdeath]

Hmm is it against the rule to abuse pinging? There should be otherwise I would probably spam it.

[SuperJack]

Hmm is it against the rule to abuse pinging? There should be otherwise I would probably spam it.

yeh dont be a wanker about it.

[Gyrlander]

@pisskop

bring it

SJ, answer my fucking question. PLEASE. You have left many posts without an aswer.

[DarknessB]

Hmm is it against the rule to abuse pinging? There should be otherwise I would probably spam it.

This is a rule, yes. You can't just spam everyone's name in the game with a ping.

[SuperJack]

What does that have to be with my QUESTION?

And why are you start to town read him?

Arrogance, Confidence, Pushing. All Pro town moves and tells. He isn't sitting back and buddying up whilst agreeing with everyone, he is taking the charge and doing shit.

[SuperJack]

AIVION (3 [L-4]):
Gyrlander, Calix, GameFreak
Gyrlander (4 [L-3]):
AIVION, DarknessB, BananaCucho, pisskop
HeadShrinker (2 [L-5]):
powerofdeath, MattZed

[powerofdeath]

This is a rule, yes. You can't just spam everyone's name in the game with a ping.

Hmm, Host should be allowed ping everyone in the opening post each day to let people know game started or day 2 started or something.

Anyway sorry for being off topic here.

[SuperJack]

Hmm, Host should be allowed ping everyone in the opening post each day to let people know game started or day 2 started or something.

Anyway sorry for being off topic here.

host can do that. its a ping. just dont be a plonker about it

[SuperJack]

Gyrlander (6 [L-1]):
AIVION, DarknessB, BananaCucho, pisskop, Saik0Shinigami powerofdeath

[DarknessB]

Current Votes:

AIVION (4 [L-2]):
Gyrlander (Mayor), DarknessB, powerofdeath
BananaCucho (1 [L-5]):
SuperJack

As a reminder, no one put AIVION to L-1 yet -- we're way too early in the day, and several players have yet to check in even. Quick hammering is anti-Town and this is the first day after a night so there could be feedback / other night leads as well.

[Gyrlander]

Arrogance, Confidence, Pushing. All Pro town moves and tells. He isn't sitting back and buddying up whilst agreeing with everyone, he is taking the charge and doing shit.

I was interested more about the Teamspeak is Engish but kk. Still, don't believe him. Being active is a good strat to hide your scumness But yeah, there are more important people to focus on now.

[SuperJack]

I was interested more about the Teamspeak is Engish but kk. Still, don't believe him. Being active is a good strat to hide your scumness But yeah, there are more important people to focus on now.

Dude it's your riddle. Solve it and you win a prize. But just tell me you solved it.

[DarknessB]

I was interested more about the Teamspeak is Engish but kk. Still, don't believe him. Being active is a good strat to hide your scumness But yeah, there are more important people to focus on now.

You're correct that activity level shouldn't necessarily be correlated with likelihood of being Town. Scumhunting should be, however. Also, the more scum players participate, the more likely they will end up saying something wrong or contradicting themselves. Therefore, it's beneficial for everyone to participate actively so we have as many posts as possible to analyze. What we don't want is for lurking players to get a pass because they are lurking and we don't have enough to review from them -- that just makes for an incredibly unfun game.

[Gyrlander]

You're correct that activity level shouldn't necessarily be correlated with likelihood of being Town. Scumhunting should be, however. Also, the more scum players participate, the more likely they will end up saying something wrong or contradicting themselves. Therefore, it's beneficial for everyone to participate actively so we have as many posts as possible to analyze. What we don't want is for lurking players to get a pass because they are lurking and we don't have enough to review from them -- that just makes for an incredibly unfun game.

That reminds me that I wanted to tell you that piskoof has been being a PRO super sheeping guy. I love it when he random appears and votes the most voted player without saying anything. Only something shitty. It is really shocking.

[SuperJack]

Im town reading saik0Shinigami
and slight scum reading PoD

Calix is flip flopping its annoying

[Saik0Shinigami]

Im town reading saik0Shinigami
and slight scum reading PoD

Calix is flip flopping its annoying

Awwww... thanks pookie. I appreciate that nice read.

Anyway this shit doesn't help me at all. Nothing so far congeals with the shit I already knew. I need to know the other materia and if it was used. Anyone feel like claiming any abilities used?Not going to be bitchy if you don't, I wouldn't want to be a target either.

[SuperJack]

Awwww... thanks pookie. I appreciate that nice read.

Anyway this shit doesn't help me at all. Nothing so far congeals with the shit I already knew. I need to know the other materia and if it was used. Anyone feel like claiming any abilities used?Not going to be bitchy if you don't, I wouldn't want to be a target either.

Oh i'll show why. Just been reading through day 1 and getting the posts.

[SuperJack]

@Gyrlander

Solved it yet?

[Saik0Shinigami]

@Gyrlander

Something for you.

Its Teamspeak In Engish.


^ correction

The fuck does this mean and why did you say correction... but not fix anything? teamseak and english

The shit am I missing here?

[Saik0Shinigami]

The fuck does this mean and why did you say correction... but not fix anything? teamseak and english

The shit am I missing here?

of course I misspell shit... I hate BBcode... it makes me nuts.

[SuperJack]

DarknessB is town:

The Entire game he is seen pushing the game further, trying to make quieter players contribute. He shows strong confidence in his status which tends to be a Town trait. This is why I consider him town along with a few of these quoted posts:

The Focus on Banana here that DarknessB did.
DarknessB gave time and effort into reading Banana, and he reulted in a town/null read.
A scum would never put this much effort into a IOS and then result it with a townie read without no scum read in it.

I'm ready. Most of Banana's posts were going after Gyrlander, you, or SuperJack. I got a little lazy at the end, but I'll post it just so everyone can see her threads in order.

Spoiler : BananaCucho ISO :

#19


This is in response to my RVS vote on MattZed and is likely poking at MattZed's tradition of being lynched early in games. Not much to see here.

#24


This is in response to Gyrlander's cryptic comment about his RVS vote not being random. I assume Gyrlander was trolling with that comment because he never explained what it meant. Banana seemed justified in raising this as a red flag early.

#31


This is in response to Gyrlander voting pisskop after pisskop (jokingly) said he wasn't going to do anything. This doesn't catch me oddly given the red flag mentioned in #24 -- i.e. Gyrlander was presumably on her radar and was continuing to troll.

#40


Refuses to give a further explanation of why she voted Gyrlander. Either irritation with him, laziness, or null, but doesn't register much eitehr way.

#129


In response to MattZed's suggestion that pisskop and AIVION could be scum buddies. Banana / Toadette has been burned a lot by pre-flip associations which have turned out to be odd. Seems like a reasonable mention to me in terms of encouraging careful play.

#130


Loses her quote list, but calls out Grylander on the shoddy read list (I agree with this), the fact that both Grylander and I didn't notice that she wasn't included in his reads list, and something else she forgot about. Point 1 was contribution with the rest being a bit fluffy.


#219


Provides copy of votes for VCA purposes and comments that our votes are all over the place. Mildly helpful reference post.

#222


#1 is a joke reference to a snarky post by HeadShrinker. #2 and #3 are commenting on Gyrlander pushing against POD (which she liked) and withdrawing the push / trying to bargain that the two not vote for each other. I agree that was extremely fishy of Gyrlander and this seems like a decent point to make.

#223


#1 is agreeing with GameFreak on Town not needing to say they are Town (seems reasonable). #2 is commenting on Gyrlander acting survivalistic in terms of potentially advocating for a lurker policy lynch and saying scummy actions doesn't mean he's scum. Both reads seem reasonable.

#224


Comments on the votes being spread out again -- fine.

#233


Comments on it not mattering if we go after the Mafia or SK -- fine.

#239


Expresses preference to go after Gyrlander over AIVION. This matched other players' views at the time given Gyrlander was making scummy statements while AIVION was trolling / RPing for the most part.

#241


Pushes back against Gyrlander who was being very defensive in his post.

#254


Calls out Gyrlander for not placing his vote anywhere.

#264


Expresses concern ovre Gyrlander basically trying to bargain with AIVION to have them both remove their votes on each other. This was very scummy behavior by both Gyrlander and AIVION and was right to be called out.

#286


Explains why non-voting can be a scum-tell in terms of avoiding controversy or enemies. Reasonable to me.

#287


Negatively comments on Gyrlander's view that we have 29 hours let and can therefore wait. Makes sense in terms of not letting the clock run down.

#291


Expresses surprise at SJ's sudden and unexplained townread of Gyrlander.

#302


Comments on how weak Gyrlander's argument is -- i.e. saying he is trying to survive vs. establishing towncred.

#307


Tries to provide clarity on SJ's comment, which was addressed at finding the SK (Sephiroth). On this point, interesting that SJ seemed more intent on finding the SK than the Mafia...

#312


Points out Gyrlander's flailing and immediately focusing on me after SJ troll voted me for using red in a comment.

#314


Comment on the limitations of meta in response to MattZed defense of AIVION for meta reasons.

#319


Pushes back against MattZed for defending AIVION and reminding the Town that poor play is not alignment indicative either way. Agree with this.

#322


Pushes back Gyrlander again in terms of his tendency to latch onto other people's targets that are not himself.

I completely agree with this excerpt of Banana's post. I don't think anyone tries to act scummy on purpose and get votes -- given there is no Jester in this setup. My guess is that Gyrlander was having fun given the Final Fantasy theme (much like AIVION), let it get away from him, made some careless posts, and then the train built up against him. SuperJack and MattZed interpreting his behavior in the most favorable way (i.e. it was planned scumminess to avoid a night kill!) seems beyond reasonable logic to me as well.

It would take an extremely seasoned player to be able to balance that type of gambit well and Gyrlander is very new to Forum Mafia. I think we were all correct for voting him based on his behavior which was very problematic: A weak read list without explanations, Corporation cheerleading RP replete with pompoms and all, attempting to bargain with multiple players to get them to drop their votes on him in exchange for him doing the same, focusing on game terminology as opposed to scumhunting, and then flailing when pushed later on today. It really wasn't good and to write it all off as some sort of a deliberate gambit is foolish to me.

That having been said, he's claimed and we need to move on, but the emphasis should be on scummy behavior. not low-hanging fruit, meta, or anything else.

This post shows he is happy to engage with Banana, scum tend to distance themselves and never get this involved.

On that note, I'm starting the POD train given we need a new viable lynch candidate and his behavior has been very questionable today. I'd say it's either him or AIVION IMO.

-vote powerofdeath

DarknessB is trying to start a new train. Pushing the game further, yet only one person joins him on this train. This suggest that scum did not wish to pressure PoD and that it was town trying to push this train.

Sure, I'd go with SJ over POD for now. The white knight play looks a little more dangerous / manipulative than just being lazy like POD

-vote SuperJack

The only vote that has legit reasoning to lynch me (Later post shows the shite train on me)

[SuperJack]

The fuck does this mean and why did you say correction... but not fix anything? teamseak and english

The shit am I missing here?

Lol fuck it, them words are far to difficult to get right easier to abbreviate it.

[Saik0Shinigami]

DarknessB is town:

DarknessB is trying to start a new train. Pushing the game further, yet only one person joins him on this train. This suggest that scum did not wish to pressure PoD and that it was town trying to push this train.



The only vote that has legit reasoning to lynch me (Later post shows the shite train on me)

So does this insinuate that you also believe PoD to be scum?

[SuperJack]

So does this insinuate that you also believe PoD to be scum?

Yes

[SuperJack]

Saik0Shinigami is town:

No, but lyching now removes an easy out for the night folk to remain relatively anonymous while still removing a townie if you are actually a townie.

I'll try to simplify what you mean to me right now

your hard-claim is true and verified: I can revote if I catch it before I go to sleep.
your hard-claim is true, verified but I miss it in thread(sleep or whatever): you pm'd already and your safe anyway. So if I miss my time to change vote, no harm done, I'll have to apologize.
Your hard-claim is false and your a townie: oops. but then everything you've been doing is really messed up and you kinda deserved it anyway
You're gambiting a soft-claim to survive to night: you have golden opportunity to kill a townie then we lynch you next day. This option doesn't make sense to rely on at all since we have at least one apparent AFK player who could potentially be the mayor and can't counter your soft-claim if you're b/s-ing us.

What this means on data for me if you die at night as townie. No allies, only one vouch, almost everyone voted you or has had some negative say to you. I cannot determine who killed when everyone at one point wanted to. You have no strong ties to anyone so I cannot determine if anyone has direct relation to you.

Darkness made a good case in my mind that we shouldn't lynch the AFK(maybe?) player yet. So this is next option that has any feng shui with my information gathering.

So, once again. Once confirmed or I'm enlightened to a difference in how soft/hard claims work on this site, I have to keep the vote up. I will not be the person that fails to put you up for lynch if you're pulling our legs with the claim.

"Good point, I was partially acting scummy to avoid night kills too."
avoid night kills? How does doing this avoid a night kills? Scum already know who you are so how does any action you take avoid killing you? If you are townie and you act like scum, then scum will keep you alive as cannon fodder because you're an easy target for the other townies when you blatantly act like scum.

This post shows he is thinking way to much in what happens if Gyrlander is not who he says he is.
Scum would be a lot quicker with believing Gyrlanders claim
This a long with a lot of other thoughts and comments he has made shows that Shakira is thinking from a Towns PoV.

Congrats Gyrlander. Hope there's no hard feelings and that my explanation at the very least made sense.

-vote Powerofdeath

Similar reasoning as Gyrlander before. Is next in my chain of unusefulness for nightkill. Doesn't help that they've chosen to vote me for no particular reason other than posting lulz. Also does help that they offer anything that isn't garbage posts.

Still waiting on something from Excalibur. We know he's been here, but he hasn't done literally anything. I'm curious on DarknessB thoughts on that. Still worth not auto-lynching him?

Here he is seen being the only other person willing to push the PoD train further. If I'm right and PoD is scum, and the scum have been unwilling to jump on him then it shows that Shakira is town.

Excalibur comes, says he's here and then leaves again ..? Short But intense. Also, playing Hearthstone isn't an excuse for voting me and refusing to explain the vote. And I totally agree with MZ that your way of being has been slightly scum sided, as I mentioned in that shitty reads list you all remember. But I'm not sure about saik0 neither. I don't like that "night usefulness". I think you should vote bases on scum vibes, because if you die tonight you may not be able to use your " night kills leads" to find scum. And we can lose majority too soon, aa someone stated at the beggining of the game. I'll leave my vote on you while I'm taking this Language exam

-vote Saik0Shinigami

ALL HAIL THE MAYOR

-vote Saik0Shinigami

-vote saik0Shinigami

This is acceptable. Excalibur is acceptable, somebody pushing a case for more than the last 4 pages; that push is acceptable

to boot saiko is beliw the line

Some pretty decent points overall. Your first point is the most convincing one to me. Saiko's wording has pinged me a couple times, most notably in that incident when he came across as unsure of wherever he should unvote me. (he said that something scummier had to happen in order to 'allow' him to unvote) Considering that he kept his RVS vote on me before switching to you, this reinforces my idea that he's self-conscious about how his voting patterns look.

That comment about mislynches is the most damning, however; being that casual about a mislynch in this setup (going as far as to preemptively justify Gyrlander's mislynch) looks like scum who is trying to fabricate reasoning to join a wagon. Especially given how many times it's been repeated that we CANNOT afford many mislynches.

-vote Saik0Shinigami

Above you have someone who I scum read powerofdeath, a sheep/spotlight avoider pisskop who is a slight scum read for me, and Calix who is flip flopping scumtown for me. (Along with the mayor)

Banana was not around at the time to join or comment on this train.

[Saik0Shinigami]

Yes

Cool... At least I can feel like I was right on Day 1 when I was repeatedly saying I would rather hit up PoD than anyone else.

[SuperJack]

Gamefreak is town

Im in the pub but ill say this.

Gyr if you are scum you should be disappointed in yourself. If you are town i hope crypt doesnt allow you in the fm because this play is pathetic.

-vote Superjack

Trying to start a train on me and was unsuccessful. Normally a town tell from a weak player.

Banana also has been giving me scumvibes but the problem is i have called Toadette scum D1 every game i'm pretty sure. So i never trust that feeling.
That being said i will place my vote there and doing an Iso since our train has collapsed.

Sorry for the harsh words Gyr, i hope you take the message to heart and learn something from this game.
SuperTPR should not put themselves in the spotlight D1. Others should be taking the bullets for them.

-vote BananaCucho

Is all go for the Lynch on Banana who is scum

Mattzed claim so its over with

-vote Superjack

Sticks to who he thinks is scum, although it goes directly against the current MattZed lynch.

[SuperJack]

Btw what I've done is concentrated on votes because 3 Town players have had a train on them (Me, Mattzed and Gyrlander)