S-FM 196: QT 3.14

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I am very annoyed right now.
Don't bug me.

or what you will continue to try and mislynch me? LOL You picked this battle, please finish it.

[Firebringer]

In short, I am not. I think your current squabble with her is over a disagreement of how D1 should be played and not over much that actually indicates alignment. I strongly dislike her hostility toward you, but she has explained several times why she has the meta reads that she does. The hostility, as far as I can tell, is because she feels she's already explained the things you ask her about. Unless you can come up with a more compelling reason as to why BC's behavior is scum indicative, I'm not supporting her lynch.

Trying to do something of a Fire ISO atm.

MATT HE DID AN ISO OF ME LIKE TWO FUCKING PAGES AGO
STOP BEING SO FUCKING DENSE!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fire why wont you respond to the post? It covers and refutes the main reasoning behind your vote on me. We spent 71 hours getting to this point, if you want this lynch to go off on me just counter my argument against your post. It should be easy if I am mafia right?

[Firebringer]

or what you will continue to try and mislynch me? LOL You picked this battle, please finish it.

YOU WANT ME TO START SHOUTING AT YOU. CAUSE I WILL START FUCKING SHOUTING AT YOU TILL YOU GO FUCKING DEAF!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

YOU WANT ME TO START SHOUTING AT YOU. CAUSE I WILL START FUCKING SHOUTING AT YOU TILL YOU GO FUCKING DEAF!

I want you to show everyone I am mafia. Go head to head with me, embarass and expose me. Please I am waiting.

[Firebringer]

I want you to show everyone I am mafia. Go head to head with me, embarass and expose me. Please I am waiting.

I AM DOING THAT NOW.
YOU ARE GETTING LYNCHED TODAY OR ELSE I WILL ANNOY EVERYONE IN THE PTS UNTIL IT HAPPENS!


MY RAGE IS REAL!

[MattZed]

MATT HE DID AN ISO OF ME LIKE TWO FUCKING PAGES AGO
STOP BEING SO FUCKING DENSE!

It wasn't a full ISO, which is what I want. I don't want to have an opinion on based on the posts Helz thinks are significant, but based on the ones I myself find significant. And frankly, I'd never blindly trust a Helz ISO with how good he is as subtly flipping a read on someone to suit his liking as scum.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I AM DOING THAT NOW.
YOU ARE GETTING LYNCHED TODAY OR ELSE I WILL ANNOY EVERYONE IN THE PTS UNTIL IT HAPPENS!


MY RAGE IS REAL!

cute trying to copy your fit from last game when you were town. Why do you refuse to counter my arguments made on 490? Oh right you have no counter argument other than WELL DUCK DUCK HE UH DUCK DUCK HE SAID POCKET WRONG HE SAID POCKETING IN THE WRONG CASE. get the fuck out of here.

[Firebringer]

I have calmed down.

[Helz]

In short, I am not. I think your current squabble with her is over a disagreement of how D1 should be played and not over much that actually indicates alignment. I strongly dislike her hostility toward you, but she has explained several times why she has the meta reads that she does. The hostility, as far as I can tell, is because she feels she's already explained the things you ask her about. Unless you can come up with a more compelling reason as to why BC's behavior is scum indicative, I'm not supporting her lynch.

Trying to do something of a Fire ISO atm.

I see it like

Banana: I believe this because of X
Me: Can you clarify X
Banana: I already said I believe this because of X
Me: Yes, But can you further explain your reasoning; and I dislike the way you are doing Y
Banana: Fuck you, I play how I want and am trying not to be toxic

Can you see this pattern throughout my interactions with her? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that as town Banana would show some level of aggression against a player that from her perspective would be trying to get her mislynched? The only way I could see her reactions to my post making sense is if she town read me, but she does not. I think I am her top scum read and she has made pretty much 0 effort to get me lynched. Ask yourself why that is.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

@Helz what do you think of fire refusing to acknowledge my long ISO on him that attacks the main points of his argument on why I am mafia?

[Firebringer]

No one is able to compromise so I think we are heading to no lynch, which isn't going to be good, but w/e.

[Helz]

40 minutes until end of day..

[Firebringer]

I am not lynching any of these three:
(Kovath, Mz, Bananacucho)

So, anyone else.
I can go to.
But I prefer PLZELEAVEDUCKK as I have made plainly clear.

[Helz]

@Helz what do you think of fire refusing to acknowledge my long ISO on him that attacks the main points of his argument on why I am mafia?

Well this realllly stretches OOG communication in a way but I just had a conversation with him on skype in which he is irritated about something totally unrelated to the game. I hate to bring that into my reasoning here but I suspect that is why he has not immediately responded. I will have to look back and see where you were asking and how long he has not answered and such..

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I am not lynching any of these three:
(Kovath, Mz, Bananacucho)

So, anyone else.
I can go to.
But I prefer PLZELEAVEDUCKK as I have made plainly clear.

Then respond to 490 and show everyone why I am mafia..................... if you are town this is officially the worst thing I have ever seen in my life, and I played a game with silverwolf.

[Unknown1234]

I am willing to be more flexible. I will allow votes on anyone except MattZed (not that i really expect this one to happen) or Kovath. But why is Kovath not communicating right now?

[Firebringer]

Reads me as town, mirrored reads at the early stages of the game.

Flips his vote because unknown says he is my copy? We get into his reasoning in a few posts:



He scumreads me because he dislikes my lynch order so he votes me… funny wasn’t his idea the SAME THING AS MINE? He reads my posts as town in tone, but my ideas as scum which mean if our ideas are the same, he reads himself as scum. I will post both ideas and you can decide for yourself.



Fire’s Plan:


If you compare the Plans, we both had banana and Kovath as our two top towns, and I would allow any player to be replaced for me. In my world everyone but banana and kovath are lynched, in fire’s the same. We will assume in each proposed world the person making it is town, meaning IT IS THE EXACT SAME THING, yet he scum reads me for it? It is even scummier for him because of the following:





This is proven false if you read up where I say “lynch in ANY order, (this is my proposed order though).

What exactly do you want me to comment on this?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Well this realllly stretches OOG communication in a way but I just had a conversation with him on skype in which he is irritated about something totally unrelated to the game. I hate to bring that into my reasoning here but I suspect that is why he has not immediately responded. I will have to look back and see where you were asking and how long he has not answered and such..

I know this is your answer not his (I don't really care about the OCG) but this a totally bullshit answer. I can understand if something is happening, and he is unable to post. But if he is here and able to shit post, he sure as hell is able to respond to my post which is pretty fucking important at this stage of the game.

[BananaCucho]

@Helz why are you suddenly thinking i am scum? I don't think i've seen the slightest impression of you thinking this.

@MattZed how do you feel on Duck?

@Duck how do you feel about Helz?

@Kovath how do you feel about Banana?

This scramble is kinda all over the place which is odd because its Fire getting lynched today, not you.

I am just going to straight up ask it. Is anyone else willing to lynch Banana today? Even now at the end game you see her wanting a lynch but not wanting to push for it.She has hardly pushed anyone and is just passing out town cred gathering friends. She constantly avoids clarifying or giving reasoning and flat out refuses to interact in a meaningful way displacing my requests with hostility.

To be 100% clear this is who I would like to lynch today. I am not super certain that she is scum but I am more confident that she is than any other player in the game. I would really like to hear players thoughts on her. If someone makes a stronger case on a different slot I will consider switching over but this is currently my focus.

I want to lynch Fire and that is who I am pushing. But please continue this narrative you are pushing that I am not playing the game, as you've done all game.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

What exactly do you want me to comment on this?

You voted me and read me mafia because of my plays such as the lynch order when you had the EXACT SAME PLAN. You can't scum read me for it without scumreading yourself therefore that should not be factored in. Based on recent posts and you mentioned earlier that I did not mention because of how laughable it was, but you also read me mafia for my incorrect use of pocketing. Is that the only thing you have to read me mafia as of now or is there something else. Help myself, and others understand your full mafia read on me.

[MattZed]

I see it like

Banana: I believe this because of X
Me: Can you clarify X
Banana: I already said I believe this because of X
Me: Yes, But can you further explain your reasoning; and I dislike the way you are doing Y
Banana: Fuck you, I play how I want and am trying not to be toxic

Can you see this pattern throughout my interactions with her? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that as town Banana would show some level of aggression against a player that from her perspective would be trying to get her mislynched? The only way I could see her reactions to my post making sense is if she town read me, but she does not. I think I am her top scum read and she has made pretty much 0 effort to get me lynched. Ask yourself why that is.

I think that's a fairly accurate summary of your interaction, but I don't think enough credit is being given for how thorough some of BananaCucho's "because X" explanations actually are. I would prefer she explain more, but it's not like she's leaving everything in the dark. The question is whether she's an annoyed town or scum who doesn't want to keep talking for one reason or another. Given what I know of her temperament and that fact that she's actually given a fair degree of reasoning, I'm inclined to see annoyed town. Even though I don't like her reaction, it's not a strong scum indicator for me.

I also don't like how she's not voting you, but she's been very consistent today, with a point I agree with that, that votes before EOD are for pressure, not actually trying to lynch someone, given how valuable D1 is. She was going after who she thought she could get more information out, which was apparently her null read, not you. I will agree I do find it mysterious how close it is to EOD without her having a vote now, though.
@BananaCucho , why aren't you voting anyone atm?

[Firebringer]

You voted me and read me mafia because of my plays such as the lynch order when you had the EXACT SAME PLAN. You can't scum read me for it without scumreading yourself therefore that should not be factored in. Based on recent posts and you mentioned earlier that I did not mention because of how laughable it was, but you also read me mafia for my incorrect use of pocketing. Is that the only thing you have to read me mafia as of now or is there something else. Help myself, and others understand your full mafia read on me.

It wasn't the saem plan, I said I have these players as town and I don't want them lynched anyways. You give a preferred lynch order even if you aren't 100% for that, you still appear scummy for me for even suggesting it. Do you not understand that?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

It wasn't the saem plan, I said I have these players as town and I don't want them lynched anyways. You give a preferred lynch order even if you aren't 100% for that, you still appear scummy for me for even suggesting it. Do you not understand that?

THATS EXACTLY WHAT MINE WAS. KOVATH AND BANANA WERE BOTH OUR TOWNS TO NOT BE LYNCHED AND THE OTHERS COULD BE LYNCHED IN ANY ORDER. I JUST ALSO GAVE MY SCUMMIEST PLAYERS IN ORDER BUT SAID LYNCH THEM IN ANY ORDER. the fact oyu cant see it is identical is fucking laughable.

[Firebringer]

This scramble is kinda all over the place which is odd because its Fire getting lynched today, not you.



I want to lynch Fire and that is who I am pushing. But please continue this narrative you are pushing that I am not playing the game, as you've done all game.

Regardless of this, I still think Banana is town, and don't think you should lynch her.

[BananaCucho]

@MattZed

My vote was on Fire and Duck put him at L-1 a few hours ago so I unvoted.

It's pretty close to the end of day now though.

-vote Firebringer

[Helz]

I want to lynch Fire and that is who I am pushing. But please continue this narrative you are pushing that I am not playing the game, as you've done all game.

Again with the straw man. I have said that you are apathetic. That you have not put much effort into the game. That you have been town reading people for dumb reasons and have hardly directly pushed a single player. I believe you are the ONLY player in this game who has played this way. It screams "I just want to survive; be my friend" and the way you have avoided clarifying things reminds me of watching politicians on TV regurgitate the same rehearsed and reasoned out answer to a question as opposed to naturally communicating their thoughts.
Hopefully you will be more receptive in private chats.

[Helz]

23 mins until end of day
Firebringer is at L1

[BananaCucho]

I can already tell how my night chat with Helz is gonna go.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

banana I just want you to put some effort in the game

fuck you

Can you explain your read on fuck you

fuck you

[Unknown1234]

I don't exactly agree with this, i need to revisit Fire.

[Helz]

I can already tell how my night chat with Helz is gonna go.

I doubt it. I already have something on my mind that could work things out for you. If after that you are still stubborn its going to be a lot of the same you have seen here. But hopefully you are actually willing to talk in there.

[BananaCucho]

I doubt it. I already have something on my mind that could work things out for you. If after that you are still stubborn its going to be a lot of the same you have seen here. But hopefully you are actually willing to talk in there.

Yeah yeah, you're a saint and I'm stubborn. Blah blah blah.

[MattZed]

If we are to lynch today, I can be content with either a Fire or Duckk lynch. I haven't read Kovath deeply enough to have a solid read, but the reason I haven't put effort into reading him is that he hasn't done anything that flagged my attention as suspicious. I would not lynch Kovath today. While BananaCucho and Helz would both prove interesting lynches and be somewhat informative via my host meta argument outlined before, I think they're both highly productive and have given me good reason to give each at least a town lean, albeit with some suspicious behavior that prevents a full-on townread, such as anything drunk Helz said or Banana's hostility.

Spoiler : Partial Fire ISO :

2 - Fluff; RV on Kovath
6 - Fluff
8 - Fluff
12 - Fluff
15 - Fluff
18 - Fluff
19 - Fluff with light suspicion on Unknown for not reacting differently to FB's earlier fluff
24 - continuing suspicion made in 19
30 - States to think I'm mafia without saying why, votes me
32 - "OMG EVERYONE IS ACTING SCUMMY"; votes Kovath
35 - Fluff
39 - Fluff
40 - Fluff reminding Kovath that Fire has already claimed scum
41 - Readlist with Myself and Duckk as town, Kovath and Unknown as scum
44 - Fluff
47 - Fluff
50 - Fluff
51 - Says Kovath often misses things, lightly fingers him as scum for this
58 - Fluff
61 - Considers re-reading Kovath because Kovath's reaction to Fire's scumclaim from Unknown's reaction
65 - unvotes and reposts read list, with Kovath on the town side now
66 - Disagrees with Kovath's joking point that agreeing to be lynched indicates scum
69 - the infamous "trap," telling scum to suicide D1 to give their teammate a kill
72 - unapologetic about the trap being potential scum coaching
74 - prods Kovath for reads
80 - accuses me of missing the entire point of what he's doing
81 - agrees with Duckk's townread on me
83 - tells BC to not break her promise to return later
87 - says it was scummy for me to question his trap and accuses me of not reading into his true motivations
92 - Fluff
95 - Considers one of Helz' posts a potential scum brag
98 - Remarks that Duckk's read list, with Fire town and Unknown+Helz as scum, is similar to his own.
101 - tells Helz that his scumread on Unknown is from his reaction to Fire's scumclaim and his disappearance under pressure
104 - Fluff
109 - Tells Duckk that Duckk's meta read is, in fact, a meta read
114 - asks Duckk to explain his meta read further
116 - tells Duckk there's no need to rush
118 - reveals paranoia about Helz' ability to seem town as scum
130 - Fluff
134 - points out that having the same thoughts as another player is not indicative of alignment
147 - Fluff
148 - elaborates that his read on me is due to meta from me attempting to "figure stuff out," even if he disagrees with my reads
189 - new read list with myself, Kovath, Banana, and Duckk as town, Helz and Unknown as scum

[BananaCucho]

17 minutes to hammer my minion

[Firebringer]

17 minutes to hammer my minion

Sad face.

[Kovath]

I'm ok with Fire, Banana, Unknown as lynches.

[Helz]

I think that's a fairly accurate summary of your interaction, but I don't think enough credit is being given for how thorough some of BananaCucho's "because X" explanations actually are. I would prefer she explain more, but it's not like she's leaving everything in the dark.

Its not about how much she has explained. Its about the refusal to say anything more than she previously did. I have never seen a player take a position of "Because I have said X which makes some level of sense I am unwilling to say anything more." That is just batshit insane. The reason to communicate your reads to other players is to get them to understand and see what you see. To allow others to critique your read and get them to potentially take up your position. Stating a position and then refusing to interact with the position as the subject points to a player taking a position for other reasons than to have their read critiqued or persuade others of their position. That is an objectively scummy action.

[BananaCucho]

Its not about how much she has explained. Its about the refusal to say anything more than she previously did. I have never seen a player take a position of "Because I have said X which makes some level of sense I am unwilling to say anything more." That is just batshit insane. The reason to communicate your reads to other players is to get them to understand and see what you see. To allow others to critique your read and get them to potentially take up your position. Stating a position and then refusing to interact with the position as the subject points to a player taking a position for other reasons than to have their read critiqued or persuade others of their position. That is an objectively scummy action.

You know you're just repeating yourself over and over at this point right?

[Firebringer]

It is pretty much me or nolynch.
So go ahead and lynch.

I guess I wont get to try these PTs out.
Meh.

GOod luck to town.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

It is pretty much me or nolynch.
So go ahead and lynch.

I guess I wont get to try these PTs out.
Meh.

GOod luck to town.

2 of your top 3 town reads are voting you.

[Firebringer]

2 of your top 3 town reads are voting you.

Your point?

[Helz]

Apparently I am not making progress with Banana in either gaining any information from her or persuading others to apply the pressure necessary to gain information from her. Sense I would rather go into private chats before considering lynching fire and Unknown is not really a viable option I am going with my original vote.

-vote Calix

We should take more time to work it out.

[MattZed]

A point about night chats:
For the most part, I will be starting my night chat messages with the tag [To ALL], indicating that I am sending the message to everyone. The more we treat the night chats like a public chat, the more common material we have to scumhunt from.

If we don't get a scum lynch today, I will not tolerate any town pretending to be someone's scumbuddy as a gambit; while it may be a worthwhile gambit to fake scum, this is a tactic akin to claiming Sheriff as Citizen; allowing it gives scum more room to maneuver and makes them harder to pin down. I encourage the rest of you to do the same.

[Helz]

You know you're just repeating yourself over and over at this point right?

Not at all. In that post you just quoted I very specifically explained how your lack of interaction comes off as scummy as opposed to frustrated. You should read that again rather than just trying to discredit the statement.

[Firebringer]

A point about night chats:
For the most part, I will be starting my night chat messages with the tag [To ALL], indicating that I am sending the message to everyone. The more we treat the night chats like a public chat, the more common material we have to scumhunt from.

If we don't get a scum lynch today, I will not tolerate any town pretending to be someone's scumbuddy as a gambit; while it may be a worthwhile gambit to fake scum, this is a tactic akin to claiming Sheriff as Citizen; allowing it gives scum more room to maneuver and makes them harder to pin down. I encourage the rest of you to do the same.

I was honestly planning on doing this. lol, too bad I won't anymore :P

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

A point about night chats:
For the most part, I will be starting my night chat messages with the tag [To ALL], indicating that I am sending the message to everyone. The more we treat the night chats like a public chat, the more common material we have to scumhunt from.

If we don't get a scum lynch today, I will not tolerate any town pretending to be someone's scumbuddy as a gambit; while it may be a worthwhile gambit to fake scum, this is a tactic akin to claiming Sheriff as Citizen; allowing it gives scum more room to maneuver and makes them harder to pin down. I encourage the rest of you to do the same.

Do you plan on hammering?

[Kovath]

Apparently I am not making progress with Banana in either gaining any information from her or persuading others to apply the pressure necessary to gain information from her. Sense I would rather go into private chats before considering lynching fire and Unknown is not really a viable option I am going with my original vote.

-vote Calix

We should take more time to work it out.

What do you think you would get from the QTs that would adjust your opinions?

[Helz]

A point about night chats:
For the most part, I will be starting my night chat messages with the tag [To ALL], indicating that I am sending the message to everyone. The more we treat the night chats like a public chat, the more common material we have to scumhunt from.

If we don't get a scum lynch today, I will not tolerate any town pretending to be someone's scumbuddy as a gambit; while it may be a worthwhile gambit to fake scum, this is a tactic akin to claiming Sheriff as Citizen; allowing it gives scum more room to maneuver and makes them harder to pin down. I encourage the rest of you to do the same.

I like the [To All] Tag idea. I would also like to say that people should explain their votes to each player when they cast them. I hate the idea of someone just flopping a vote down given the lack of global chat.

[BananaCucho]

It is pretty much me or nolynch.
So go ahead and lynch.

I guess I wont get to try these PTs out.
Meh.

GOod luck to town.

You are really making me feel bad about this lynch.

Appeal to emotion denied.