S-FM 207 Island Conflict

[Eggy]

your goal is to convince town why people are scum not just show up randomly without reading most of the thread and say hey. I think these guys are scum. and what you scum read me for scum reading you?

[Eggy]

Im taking a break from this thread until calix mattzed and simple come back. I will go crazy if I stay on any longer. Someone please mention me when atleast two of the people I just said are back.

[Spruance]

Im taking a break from this thread until calix mattzed and simple come back. I will go crazy if I stay on any longer. Someone please mention me when atleast two of the people I just said are back.

Someone scurred of what they don't understand.

[Eggy]

Why is this thread so dead... I feel like its going to be another no lynchn, we cant get everyone on at the same time.

[Calix]

Jesus Christ, you people are stupid and I'm in the same boat for wasting my time reading the drivel that you call "scum-hunting"

"Oh, Mesk could have been killed by town." - If you took five seconds to READ THE SETUP, you'd realise that the Vigilante's kills take place the night after a player is shot. I don't even know why this is a point for debate.

In any case, Mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me early YET AGAIN and Mesk Body-Doubled me. I see a fair few comments trying to throw shade on me as being a potential Mafia (looking at you, MattZed, Eggy) but none of you thought to ask wherever Mafia can even target themselves before doing that? Looks like doubt-casting to me.

Spoiler : Here's an example :

My question is of calix was scum would she have known if she was being visited and that mesk was protecting her? couldnt she have just played along when mesk was having a conversation with her? Then she could nightkill mesk knowing that in her last will mesk would say that she was protecting her and she was town? Even if she didnt know if mesk was writing a last will(which I imagine she did because of their night chat.) Being that she is often targeted first because of her strong reads and that no one would counter claim her if she said mesk was on her since mesk was actually protecting her.

@Iced_Monopoly Can the Mafia target themselves for the night kill?

MattZed with the stupid questions over anything useful. Fuck's sake mate.

Spoiler : MiniZed's 'summary' of the game. A perfect example of why summaries are bullshit. It's horrendously biased and consists largely of subjective details/ interpretations over keeping it simple and focused on the facts.

MiniZed's summary also goes out of its way to throw shade on everyone. If this is how MiniZed views the game then he looks extremely opportunistic. Comments like "oh, Eggy had a weird vote", "everyone kinda stopped pushing me for whatever reason", "XYZ is being odd" looks like he isn't trying to scum-hunt as much as he is just trying to doubt-cast everyone who isn't him.

He's also a hypocrite because he literally uses meta to scum-read Eggy yet accuses me of "using meta more than usual" to suspect him. I say 'suspect' because MiniZed didn't even give a read on me, LMAO :

Erm, I'm not sure I'm the right person for this, but I will give it a shot Master!

Darkness was being odd, people thought he was picking on low hanging fruit and that his arguments were lacking.

Kovath hasn't done much out of the ordinary. I feel his arguments have been very lacking in opinion, but others would disagree with me.

Calix spent most of the day pushing Darkness, then fell asleep and missed a vote at EOD.

I was sick early day, and pretending to be someone else, so I got a lot of bad feedback. Then I made a long post and everyone kinda stopped pushing me for whatever reason.

Never Unlucky has been weird, had a same type of tone for a few posts that were made in relation to POLITICO, and asked two setup questions that could result in everyone thinking NU is neutral. Spruance trolled, old Gyrlander didn't do anything either.

My poor memory is helping me forget who is left. Oh! Eggy had a weird vote that got him scum-read by Spruance. Eggy then sheeped Calix's opinion and voted Darkness for no good reason discovered.

Spruance also did a lot of shady votes, very questionable and more sheep then usual.

A lot of people thought Darkness and Mesk were paired, but that ended up false.

My outline on MESK was clearly stated, and I do not feel bad for her flipping town. She honestly did it to herself.

Calix has used a lot of previous games to try to get a meta read on me, which feels false.

Kovath and Darkness had an argument, which Most people favoured Kovath for the most part.

A lot of hate on Spruance and Darkness this game, I hope I covered everything.

In comparison, you didn't say much the few days you were around. If you started to say more, it's probably because there were less people to talk to. POLITICO you spoke more, Insanity is a bad example since you AFK'D, but you talked more in Illuminati and Mafia Wars (I assume, sometimes difficult to determine the messages from you or mesk, sometimes not.)

I don't like that this message is almost as if you asked for pity. Why don't you contribute to reverse this opinion?

so, you are jumping to the conclusion that i need to read day one for any post that i comment about on day two to be valid.

pro-tuna-tinned-play here.

i voted for minized, that is made clear by the red text that says his name.
tmi=scumtell or do you ignore the point? why do you not consider it a scum slip, some more detail into your thought process is perhaps quite ravenous.

so gylander was trying more to just survive instead of contributing on day one?
was he being attacked? or are we too assume you have the power to feel.
in other words how was gylander exerting survivalist traits rather than contribution.
how in what way was gylander trying more a tell?

honestly you are not even saying this slot is scum, so the vote makes no sense. from what you have explained this slot could also be seen in the light as a tpr, or as faking tpr.

Only Simple Joy post I found but I like the vibe I got from them so far. Granted, I am biased because I was town-reading Gyrlander but the probing questions are always appreciated.

[Calix]

I'd just like to log these string of posts.

(note: they weren't posted consecutively so I might have missed some of the nuances of the discussion. However, the progression and my thoughts on the players are as I read it when I first skimmed the thread)

It starts off with Eggy stating that he has a town lean on Kovath. He claims that NU "doesn't feel genuine" in his scum-hunting and only states the obvious. This is a point that has been repeated on multiple occasions by DB, Kovath and MiniZed so I don't see any original analysis there.

NU, as per usual, immediately launches in to attack anyone accusing him. I don't disagree with his analysis in this example, but so far this just reads as another example of NU caring more and putting more effort into defending himself as opposed to legitimately trying to sort players.

MiniZed enters with some pointers about why he scum-reads Kovath. I dislike the focus on "feels" over anything substantial and the lack of examples aggravates me.

This is where it gets interesting - Eggy immediately abandons the town lean that he previously held about Kovath in favour of fueling the "Kovath could be neutral" scenario. This conformity with someone else's opinions pinged me as scummy.

Oh I forgot that kovath is townosh lean for me also(knew I was forgetting someone)

and I have NU as null scum because nothing he says seems thst genuine it doesnt really seem like he is actually hunting scum more that he is trying to post as much as.possible and state the obvious to make it seem like he has.town interest at heart. I wouldnt mind lynching him today.

That is Eggy in a nutshell. Stating the obvious, posting one-liners, not scum-hunting, not-reading and calling out others for not contributing when his posts never offer anything original and don't feel like a chore to read.

How about you reply to the 4-5 posts I just made about you instead of skipping them?

Long answer shortened:

-Plays too neutral
-Only interacts with people who will give him the reaction he wants (I've just discussed this)
-Often avoids communication with others in the game.
-All comments against him are almost always followed with "you're misrepping me" and that feels like his only argument in defense of himself.
-His comments usually are in areas that won't benefit the discussion.

Do you think he could be neutral? Your right I almost forgot about him being in this game(because of how neutral he is) thats why I didnt include him into my reads until after I realised

[Calix]

Some other pointers about Eggy.

I am currently be "pressured" myself but ill get around to that. And Ihave nothing to say to spruance I am just waiting for the outcome of another game. Also I dont have much to go off of so I am waiting for the 2 replacees to say more before I can apply pressure on them.

The lack of initiative amazes me. You are seriously waiting until a game is finished until you give reads/ pressure them? You were perfectly capable of giving reads on your first game on-site so this lazy and privileged way of viewing the game rubs me the wrong way.

Why do I say privileged? You're assuming that you'll survive long enough for the outcome of the game to be made apparent.

Oh look another one liner. If you can give me one paragraph of why you scum read me I might just take this vote off.

Bartering votes. That's not how you'd treat a scum-read. Seems like you're just going through the motions.

Your last comment about "oh noes we might No Lynch again" is premature. ~200 posts overnight is a reasonable level of activity in my eyes.

[Calix]

@Spruance

This isn't a case, technically speaking. I just made some notes on players last night as I am finding it difficult to sort them. If Spruance ignores this post or doesn't take the time to respond to it in a way that satisfies me, then I'm just going to interpret that as confirmation of the points made against him.

- Starts the game by trying to crib the "ALWAYS TOWN GUISE" line, then goes on to post some of the most insultingly obvious crap the world has ever seen (there is X% chance of lynching a town guise!) before he gets drawn into a protracted discussion about how DAY 1 IS TOO HARD FOR MEH.

- Claims Eggy scum-slipped but his reasoning makes zero sense. (Kovath wasn't capitalised + join date + 'feels strange' = ???) DB raised a good point when he mentioned Spruance's aversion to scum-reading active players.

- His defenses and vote reasoning sucks. Most of it is "you did it too!", "you suck/ I already did this so I don't have to do anything else" and "this player is experienced and that scares me so they should die now!"

- Suspicious voting patterns. Admits to OMGUS with NU. Changes votes frequently and goes along with ALL of the popular trains even though he town-read them. (Never Unlucky, DarknessB, Mesk) Seems like he only cares about getting a lynch off on anyone who isn't him.

- This is reinforced by the fact that he a) claimed DB didn't feel scummy but voted for him when I asked for reasoning and b) voted for Mesk right after MiniZed dropped a shitty ISO on her.

- Speaking of the DB vote, his reasoning for thinking that DB could be the Neutral is "he has a good reads list" and "he seems unbiased enough that he probably doesn't have a partner" - this reads like Spruance is informed on what would be a 'good' and 'bad' read on players.

- In addition to this, his Day 2 behaviour follows a similar pattern. Instead of pursuing a lynch on NU/ DB/ anyone that he had previously suspected, he claims that he would be "fine with either a Kovath or Eggy" lynch today. Why? Because of "having the highest probability of flipping scum" - I rest my case for bullshit, generic reasoning that can apply to everyone.

- As this post shows, he later goes on to add MiniZed to the scum pool.

eggy - first hunch, then carefully examined for scum/meta behavior.

kovath - no clear reads list and not pressuring yet trying to appear to do so.

minized - scum for saying that mesk might have been town killed.

Let's see...he's voted for NU, DB, Mesk and then adds Kovath, MiniZed, Eggy. 6/9 players in the game and the remaining three are the following:

1. Gyrlander/ Simple Joy, a slot which has not been at risk of being lynched nor has it faced much pressure.

2. RLVG/ MattZed, a slot which was AFK for Day 1 and thus was unlikely to result in a lynch.

3. Calix, a slot which was widely town-read, under minimal pressure and was attacked on Night 1.

Tell me how this isn't the behaviour of someone trying to get a lynch on anyone that ISN'T himself.

[Calix]

@MiniZed you stated a town-read on him after going through his ISO. Please respond to the points raised against him if you'd be so kind.

If your response is "lol don't town-read him anymore" then a detailed walk-through of why you changed your mind would be A.

[Calix]

-vote Spruance

[Calix]

Vote Count [Day 2]

How the actual fuck did people stand by and allow Kovath to be the leading train, exactly? The fact that Shaun the Sheep has decided to hop onto Train of the Day for the 597647th time while MiniZed is on a mission to throw shade on everyone doesn't inspire confidence in this train.

Not sure wherever MiniZed's "don't think it was a scum kill anyways" line was a legitimate slip. Like I said, the Vigilante cannot instantly kill players and I see no plausible scenario where a) I was attacked by town and b) the scum had their kill fail on the same night. I think it's scummy more because he is trying to stir the pot with moronic theories and throw shade...seems to be a recurring theme with MiniZed.

I'm going to dig into that debacle between Eggy and NU before I comment on that in more detail.

• MiniZed (1 [L-4]):
  Simple Joy
  

  ---

  Kovath (2 [L-3]):
  MiniZed, Spruance
  

  ---

  Eggy (1 [L-4]):
  Never Unlucky
  

  ---

  Spruance (2 [L-3]):
  Eggy, Calix

[Calix]

Iced, can we have a link to Day 2 in the first post of the thread please?

[Iced_Monopoly]

@Iced_Monopoly Can the Mafia target themselves for the night kill?

Yes

Iced, can we have a link to Day 2 in the first post of the thread please?

Will do

[Calix]

Mesk dying as the elder whilst having a chat with Calix pretty much confirms Calix as a non-scum. I don't think the expansionnists would have targeted Mesk seeing as he was one of the top scum-reads for everyone, so I assume that Calix was the scum's target.

THe other possiblity as to why Mesk died is the SN who could've redirected randomly an action on Mesk. For this option, I'd need you guys to confirm/infirm that the SN did use his ability as I was not informed of it myself. In this scenario, I doubt that the SN would be a Grand Witch who happened to find the scum killer and redirect his action on Mesk. In this scenraio, the SN would be the Voodoo doctor.

"non-scum"

Did you just reveal that I cannot be the Neutral either? Given your weird behaviour around anything relating to the Neutral (case in point, your theory-crafting about the Neutral's involvement in the kill) this catches me as strange.

-vote Eggy

I feel like his contribution has been lower then in previous games, which slightly reminds me of AI.

Ah yes, using meta to scum-read players even though MiniZed was slamming players earlier for using meta. Consistency at its finest.

Some potential buddying with MattZed going on. Nothing he said has impressed me so I'll be looking for an increase in post quality. If he keeps referring to MiniZed just because of RP reasons, I'm going to get annoyed. Case in point, his 'ISO' on MiniZed which he only followed up with the following:

@MiniZed , did Calix and Kovath ever stop grilling you over NAI nonsense, or is the rest of this ISO just going to be you giving them one-sentence responses justifying fluff?

[Calix]

@Eggy

Here are most of the Eggy/ NU interactions, split up into 6 segments. There is more but it got repetitive after a while.

Spoiler : EGGY VS NEVER UNLUCKY :

Spoiler : PART 1

Eggy starts off with my favourite "I told you so" tactic with a side order of self-serving "I was the only person to correctly town-read her" bullshit. Scummy. When NU calls him out on his undiluted bullshit, he gives a generic explanation of "no other lynch was happening" and "Mesk has never been scum in any game I've played with her". Not liking Eggy so far :

First off let me say how happy I am mesk flipped town. Proved that her motto is still true. Also let me say I was the only perso who town read her(Im pretty sure) if people had refrained from hoping on that train we would not have wasted the entire first day.

Stop giving yourself credit, lm0a. You weren't the only one who town-read Mesk (DB did for instance) and your reasoning for town-reading her was utter shit. "She is always town" won't make people follow you into thinking she's town.

"if people had refrained from hoping on that train we would not have wasted the entire first day"
Please! Your vote was on Mesk too as far as I'm concerned. You can't blame the louder voices on her train for voting on what was going to be a mislynch if you voted her yourself. If you contributed more and drew everyone,s attention on someone else with good arguments rather than sheeping and giving Carrot-Cake arguments, maybe the first day wouldn't have been "wasted".

I voted on her because there was LITERALLY no possible other lynch as one of you told me I cant remember who. Where did DB town read her? Didnt he have her as null? I was also town reading her based on meta since ive plsyed with her almost all my games and she was never scum once.

Spoiler : PART 2

Eggy continues to gain scum points in my eyes by pushing the "possibility" (cough, doubt-casting, cough) that I am Mafia who decided to target Mesk to gain all the town credz. This is blatantly moronic because it implies that I would willingly kill a Protective who town-read me when there is a Neutral who could kill mafia!Calix the very next night...all so that I could 'confirm' myself as town when nobody was scum-reading me.

After NU points out the similarities between this retarded argument and MattZed's earlier posts, Eggy just doubles down on the thought :

I feel like if calix was scum and nightkilled mesk herself it would put her in a very good position and have everyone basically confirm her as town(if for some reason my reasoning was off let me kno) i am still townreading calix as my now #1 stronfedt town read I am just giving this far fetched theory because it strikes me as not only possible but optimal scum play in the small chance that calix is scum

...

This is exactly what MattZed said.

Oh sorry didnt see him say that. Its possible tho right? Wouldnt she know that mesk was protecting her because of the shared chat? And be able to influence mesk last will annd everythinf.

Spoiler : PART 3

Eggy considers replacements/ failure to not be a lurker to be alignment-indicative for some reason. He doesn't make much of an effort to push the replaced slots so this just looks like he's trying to plant scum-reads in those slots without following up on it.

Gyrlander was not even scummy. Why do people insist on pushing this narrative? :

Dont think any are really new. Gyrl and RlVG were replaced which just doesnt really seem like something towny then again I could have been replaced in insanity so its not 100% valid. I find simplejoy jumping into things has been a bit awkward and forced as if he wants to make up for gyrls scummyness.

Spruance still strikes me as town idiot or scum. I will have a way better read on him shorty based off meta

I think we should push a lynch between
Simple and mattzed, right now im leaning simple

In your post you talk about your Simple Joy and Spruance scum-reads and you then suggest we either lynch MattZed or Simple Joy? Where is MattZed coming from?

Im like 70% sure one of the people who replaced is scum or both I dont think two towns would replace in one game

Spoiler : PART 4

This is the part where Eggy does his dodgy back-tracking on the Kovath town-read and does the "I'll wait for Politico to end before waiting to lynch my strongest scum-read" nonsense. Again, this assumes that Eggy will be around long enough for this to happen. It's also stupid because he's saying "I shall wait an indefinite amount of time for this other game to end before properly playing this current game"

He makes a decent point about why he is pressuring NU over the replacements, however, but his reasoning for not pushing Spruance is literal shit.

This part ends with some 'townie' bravado from Eggy about how literally none of the points that NU has raised are worth ignoring :

Oh I forgot that kovath is townosh lean for me also(knew I was forgetting someone)

and I have NU as null scum because nothing he says seems thst genuine it doesnt really seem like he is actually hunting scum more that he is trying to post as much as.possible and state the obvious to make it seem like he has.town interest at heart. I wouldnt mind lynching him today.

That is Eggy in a nutshell. Stating the obvious, posting one-liners, not scum-hunting, not-reading and calling out others for not contributing when his posts never offer anything original and don't feel like a chore to read.

How about you reply to the 4-5 posts I just made about you instead of skipping them?

What did I miss? I am happy to answer anything you asked me

Because id like one of the replacements to say more before I make up my mind. Spruance is currently my strongest scum read but im in politico right now with him so I would rather wait on lynching him until I see what he flips in the other game. I feel like when that happens I will have 100% solid alignement read on him since his play is basically identical

If thats what you are trying to do you are not doing a very good job

Is going back a few posts/pages this hard? You're basically admitting not reading others' posts and confirming my description of you.

That doesn't explain why I'm your preferred lynch lm0a.

Maybe if you wouldn't skip the posts...

Eggy, your formating is worse than mine, fix it. You've made three posts that could easily have been included in one post. I'll L0L if you call me out again for trying to post as much as possible.

I dont see anything ive missed. Is it before page 36? How does it not explain why you are my.prefered lynch right now? The order is subject to change. I would like to see the replacees say more before they are lynched and I am waiting on a very good peice of info before I push a lynch on spruance(my #1 scum read) so you are again literally the only player I am comfortable lynching if the day was to end right now.

I was not talking about the amount of indivual posts just the amount of words that you have posted so far. Please tell me where I have missed anyposts and.I will answer them. If I have missed some it is an accident not because I dont want to answer them. Im 100% confident nothing you can say agaisnt me is worth me ignoring

Spoiler : PART 5

NU goes down a notch for the moronic "you fake-voted so you claimed scum" line of thought. Of all the things that Eggy has done, that is hardly something worth commenting on, nor will it result in any fruitful discussion aside from denial. Eggy is also correct when he says that the situations being compared are apples and oranges.

I really wish these two would shut it with the references though. They do it way too much and it makes me want to shove a pitchfork in my eyes.

I don't agree with Eggy that NU wasn't trying to pressure him BEFORE Eggy had stated a null-scum read on him unless I missed that read before the whole "I told you Mesk was town" drama took place.

In fact, I'd like a comprehensive summary of these interactions from Eggy's POV with examples to back up his viewpoint :

Did you even read my post? Your reply to it doesn't answer any questions that were raised.

Also,

you said this in Politico, and you voted "mesk" in Island conflict rather than "Mesk514"... Are you revealing yourself as scum?

Lol why would scum fake vote town when it would be in my best interest to see someone I knew as town misylnched?? It is no where near to the same effect as the fake vote in the pilitico context. It shoudlnt even be comparable. I just called her mesk instead of mesk514 because I always call her that and have never even placed a vote on her except once in my entire life.

You are not very good at what you call pressuring lol. And yes I read your post and explained why you shouldnt not lump me in the same group as tge other people who voted mesk because I was the only person who thought she was town until the end(you say DB id like him to explain what his read.of her was)

What are your reads on me atm you didnt really start "pressuring" until I said you were my top lynch priority

Do you still not understand why you are my favoured lynchright now?

I replied to your posts WAY before you mentionned me being a lean-scum read. That,s why I replied to Unknown "Probably because he can't handle being pressured"

You're burrying yourself with every post you make.

Spoiler : PART 6

I know that Eggy later says "lol love how your read changed from null to null-scum because I called you out on your bullshit". Well I think NU did more call-outs than Eggy did so he's going to have to walk me through that one.

NU's "you didn't respond to my posts" mantra gets seriously repetitive though. If he had explained HOW Eggy was avoiding things then I would find it less notable but most of what he does is repeat this line of thought with no progression. I don't agree that Eggy was evading anything either.

Not really feeling the scum vibes from NU so far for Day 2 save for his insistence on bringing up the Neutral. He's upped his effort - could be in response to the accusations that he was being complacent, however :

What kind of question is this? Is scum going to reveal itself as scum after being asked a question like that. Also I said sometimes and I do not beleive that you did not notice the context difference between the two false votes. You just use it to paint a picture as me as scum when there is not a connection to be made. I dont think that is very towny.

That's seriously your defense? You didn't refute any points I made in my posts, prefering to throw shade on my intentions.

I'm reading you as lean-scum.

You continue to say this when I have replied to every point you made. Your point was correct me if im wrong "you said here that fake votes can ve a scumtell, you made a fake vote here, are you trying to say you are scum?" That was the entirety of what you said. you took the quotes out of context to the point that you could not not have seen the difference unless you were trying to intentionally throw shade. Why would I not question your intentions.

Good job rephrasing my post. Now, read your reply, you'll realize that it answered NOTHING I asked.

-vote Spruance

It might be your meta but I literally cant think off how a town member can be as dense as this. I would have prefered to wait and see the outcome of politico but you are so annoying I dont think I can wait that long. If you are town kill yourself please. you are way worse than NU if Nu is town at least he responds to posts and doesnt show up to offer one liners and terrible and baseless reads.

I scum-read Shaun the Sheep as well and the reasons I am voting with a scum-read are because a) it's a multi-ball setup so this is possible W/W and b) I have four players in my lynch pool so I need to sort them out somehow...but this vote is truly terrible.

• Hedges the possibility of Spruance being scum because of teh metah
• 'You are so annoying' is not a scum tell
• 'if you are town' (this is not a line that should be popping up when you are voting for people)
• Justifies voting for Spruance over NU because of NU's contributions

While I am on a roll with wall-posting the absolute shit out of this game, Eggy can respond to the notes I made on him from N1 as well.

[snipped from my Last Will. Has not been edited so some parts are outdated/ have been addressed already]

"I don't see a lot of overtly scummy behaviour but I see little pro-town behaviour either. Possible that he is trying to float by. (his comment about making sure that he could catch up in posts before he got replaced just gave me that impression)

Some things do not add up for me.

• Seems to be making way more excuses than normal to justify his subpar performance this game. Hedges his opinion and lacks initiative (asks people to 'persuade him' and 'paint a picture' of someone as scum)
• Town-reads Mesk because "she is always town and has been town in all the games I've played with her" (yet is self-aware that his friendship could make him biased and later backtracks on this read with the whole "oh I'll vote her if she is the only person who can be lynched today")
• Wasn't a fan of those EOD comments about Mesk either. Feels like he already knew what she would flip. He'll claim meta, I'm sure.
• Sheeps me onto DarknessB, although he later says that his only scum-read is Spruance. Not sure if he had even looked through DB's posts before voting.
• Actually, he has no scum-reads. Closest thing he has is "null-scum" for Spruance."

Spoiler : Actually let's discuss these reads of his, shall we?

Already been mentioned that waiting to see how the outcome of a current game goes before making a read on 2/9 other players is bad.

He seems to be relying way too much on meta, honestly, which seems to be why his reads are so terrible. I don't like the lack of scum-reads, I've said this, and the fact that he only mildly suspects the lurkers while town-reading the active players could be an attempt to avoid being pressured by stronger players.

Conflates contribution/ activity with a town alignment. See above for criticisms of that line of thought. I'd go into more detail but Eggy is just so bland that I don't really know what to say about him.

His constant references to Politico give me the impression that he is being legit with his uncertainity about reads, however :

Ok so guys. My reads are these
Calix 90%(sure is town)
Mesk(acting abit strange but I will not vote her still think shes town mayne just frustrated)
Minized is unknown right(70% sure is town)
kovath also town
Gyrlander null(until I see what he flips in politico)
spruance(null /scum until I same as girl after politico ends I will have a good idea their alignement.)
Never unlucky. I think hes town has been contributing more thoughtfully than his previous gane where he flipped scum and I feel like he is actually offering information without being pressured.
RLVG null for obvious reasons. He is definately going to be replaced so I dont think he is biggest threat.
Darkness(60% sure is town) I find that his arguments have made alot of sense and that since he has been put on the spot he has worked hard to prove his town allegiance. I beleive he definately deserves to survive the day.

I personally think the scum is most likely the lurkers. I feel like most of you have been contributing a lot and I dont get a sneaky vibe from what you have said. NU is probably the person im the most ify about but I cant say I scum read him.

And no at the moment I havnt.picked up on amy strong scum reads that is why I am asking for you to paint me a picture of who you read as scum strongly and why.

Calix
Your play is the same as it was last game (pushing the game forward doing a good job of scum hunting) from what I can tell your play is beneficial to town in every way(except maybe discouraging others from standing against you because of how confident you are with your reads) you are definately my strogest town read.

Kovath
He also seems to have towns interest at heart he is pushing the thread in the right direction and has formed reads of his own for the most part. I beleive him to be town or very clever scum.

Minized
He is my second strongest town read he has been scumhunting well and I feel like he has asked all the right questions that a town would ask. There is nothing about his olay that strikes me as scummy.

NU seems to be sheeping mostly but at the same time I feel like his play is different from last game when he flipped scum and also he is sheeping my stronest town reads so I dont see why scum would do that.
I was suspicious of DB in the begging of the game but I feel like he has made a solid defense(and then some) I would regret to see him lynched today because I am pretty confident he will flip town.
RLVG is null
Spruance and gyrlander are slight scum reads. But I think in the next two days of politico I will know exactly what their alignements are and they will become some of my stringest reads.
I will have substantial more info to provide day 2 so I ask you guys to juzt bear with me
Mesk is possible scum I guess but I just really hope shes not. If she flips scum I just dont know what to think anymore. Her motto has kinda stuck with ne since itd always proven to be true since I starting playing on this forum.

I feel like spruances play would ve scum if it was anyone else because he just does not seem to really care and seems almost like he is joking with his posts. He is also responding to question with useless answers like YOLO so I dont think that is very towny. The only reason I dont vote him right now is because people seem to say that that is how he always plays nomatter his aligbement so I an hesitant. Also I have the rare oppurtunity to see how he flips in politico and that will give me valuavle info on his alignement.

Gyrl is even less helpful I havnt seen him do anything this game(maybe I missed something) he is basically the same read as spruance for me just that I feel like he cares less and is more like ke in insanity in a way(hasnt really oosted anything) but at the same time he is playing very sinilar to how he is in politico and I am scum reading him there for that so I am kind of inclined to think he is scim until more evidence shows up.

[Calix]

I don't think the mentions work when you use colours.
@Spruance @Eggy

[Never Unlucky]

In any case, Mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me early YET AGAIN and Mesk Body-Doubled me. I see a fair few comments trying to throw shade on me as being a potential Mafia (looking at you, MattZed, Eggy) but none of you thought to ask wherever Mafia can even target themselves before doing that? Looks like doubt-casting to me.

@Iced_Monopoly Can the Mafia target themselves for the night kill?

No, their theory was that scum!Calix, knowing she was in a night-chat with the Mesk, attacked Mesk directly to make it seem like you were targeted by the expansionists and confirm you as not scum. Their theory was not that scum!Calix targeted herself.

NU, as per usual, immediately launches in to attack anyone accusing him. I don't disagree with his analysis in this example, but so far this just reads as another example of NU caring more and putting more effort into defending himself as opposed to legitimately trying to sort players.

I "launched an attack" on Eggy when I saw that he skipped at least 3 pages of posts, asking questions that had already been addressed, before he made his reads list.

[Calix]

No, their theory was that scum!Calix, knowing she was in a night-chat with the Mesk, attacked Mesk directly to make it seem like you were targeted by the expansionists and confirm you as not scum. Their theory was not that scum!Calix targeted herself.

My refutation of this idea still stands. Killing a sympathetic Protective (likely the only one we have) when the Supernatural, not the Mafia, can kill tonight would be a horrendously short-sighted move on my part with minimal gain.

I "launched an attack" on Eggy when I saw that he skipped at least 3 pages of posts, asking questions that had already been addressed, before he made his reads list.

Noted.

I hope you are in the middle of responding to the rest of what I posted.

[Never Unlucky]

"non-scum"

Did you just reveal that I cannot be the Neutral either? Given your weird behaviour around anything relating to the Neutral (case in point, your theory-crafting about the Neutral's involvement in the kill) this catches me as strange.

No, I meant that you weren't in the scum faction, that you weren't an expansionist. If I had wanted to imply that you weren't a neutral either, I'd have said "Town" rather than "non-scum"

[Calix]

Let me know when you are finished with responding to my posts and then I will get back to you.

[Never Unlucky]

Let me know when you are finished with responding to my posts and then I will get back to you.

I don't think I've got anything else to add. I was in the process of going back to read Kovath's ISO of you, but if you have some certain points you want me to address, please highlight them for me.

[Calix]

I don't think I've got anything else to add. I was in the process of going back to read Kovath's ISO of you, but if you have some certain points you want me to address, please highlight them for me.

You being serious? I just posted two giant cases on Spruance/ Eggy and you have nothing to say about them?

All you did was respond to anything that mentioned you.

Even more damning, you have claimed in this game thread that such self-centred behaviour is a scum tell.

I can't even answer this because I don't have a reason for doing this. I just read everything and responded to where I saw my name mentioned.

That's what I was doing as a scum in Politico...

[Never Unlucky]

You being serious? I just posted two giant cases on Spruance/ Eggy and you have nothing to say about them?

All you did was respond to anything that mentioned you.

Even more damning, you have claimed in this game thread that such self-centred behaviour is a scum tell.

I'm being lazy. zzz
Since the very first page of the thread, you mentioned the NKA was important. Do you have any thoughts on Mesk's death? Or were they all brought up by everyone else?

What did you like of Simple Joy's post? I was left with a WTF-face after reading it.

Good points you make on Eggy.

Ok, you summed up what's Spruance's done this game...

His point on why he is "pushing me" (How do you even consider that pushing me?) rather than the replacement is not "decent". He says he wants them to talk more before he pushes them, but he does NOTHING to get them to talk. This guy's a joke.

I didn't go for the moronic "you fake-voted so you claimed scum" line of thought. My point was that Eggy himself said that fake-voting was a scum-tell in POLITICO, but faked his vote himself in this game. I wanted to know what he had to say about this. His reply was good (for once).

"I really wish these two would shut it with the references though" In this whole debacle, I made reference to another once. I'm not sure what are your grounds for this statement, it feels really off. If anything, you're the one who abuses of references this game.

"They do it way too much and it makes me want to shove a pitchfork in my eyes." lol

"Well I think NU did more call-outs than Eggy did so he's going to have to walk me through that one." I didn't understand who the "he" was referring to.

"NU's "you didn't respond to my posts" mantra gets seriously repetitive though." That's sort of a misrep. I blame Eggy for not answering my questions, not for not replying to my posts. There is a big nuance between these two. You can't say that Eggy has ever answered my questions other than the "fake-vote" question which was an easy one.It does get repetitive for me too, trust me, but if Eggy would give an answer to the shit I say to him, we wouldn't be here.


"Not really feeling the scum vibes from NU so far for Day 2 save for his insistence on bringing up the Neutral." I talked about the neutral once? o.o

More good points on Eggy.

HA! I'm back with the shitty format again! Suck it, Calix!

[Calix]

I'm being lazy. zzz
Since the very first page of the thread, you mentioned the NKA was important. Do you have any thoughts on Mesk's death? Or were they all brought up by everyone else?

lmao, I like how you responded when I called you out on it and your only defense is being "lazy". Yeah, not letting that one slip past.

No, I do not have any thoughts on Mesk dying because the scum attacked me. There is nothing to say there because people have a fetish for seeing my dead body. I cannot even tell wherever the scum fear me because my reads are accurate or just because I'm ~Calix~ and I'm ~too good to risk keeping around~

What did you like of Simple Joy's post? I was left with a WTF-face after reading it.

The fact that they are willing to dig deep into posts to draw out more nuanced reasoning, perhaps?

His point on why he is "pushing me" (How do you even consider that pushing me?) rather than the replacement is not "decent". He says he wants them to talk more before he pushes them, but he does NOTHING to get them to talk. This guy's a joke.

Think I noted that earlier, but not sure there. I agree either way.

I didn't go for the moronic "you fake-voted so you claimed scum" line of thought. My point was that Eggy himself said that fake-voting was a scum-tell in POLITICO, but faked his vote himself in this game. I wanted to know what he had to say about this. His reply was good (for once).

Gotcha.

"I really wish these two would shut it with the references though" In this whole debacle, I made reference to another once. I'm not sure what are your grounds for this statement, it feels really off. If anything, you're the one who abuses of references this game.

I was talking about the Politico references in general. Between you drawing comparisons between your own scum game and here and Eggy using it as a reason to be lazy with his reads, it's getting on my tits.

"Well I think NU did more call-outs than Eggy did so he's going to have to walk me through that one." I didn't understand who the "he" was referring to.

Eggy.

"NU's "you didn't respond to my posts" mantra gets seriously repetitive though." That's sort of a misrep. I blame Eggy for not answering my questions, not for not replying to my posts. There is a big nuance between these two. You can't say that Eggy has ever answered my questions other than the "fake-vote" question which was an easy one.It does get repetitive for me too, trust me, but if Eggy would give an answer to the shit I say to him, we wouldn't be here.

That wasn't a misrepresentation. Please stop bandying around that term.

What points do you feel that he missed then? I didn't get the impression that he was evading anything myself.

More good points on Eggy.

Want to expand on that, mate?

[Kovath]

Calix claiming that she was the target for the night kill and not Mesk was NAI for me as she would do it as both alignments (but would only have claimed the opposite if she was town and it was true), but:

There is nothing to say there because people have a fetish for seeing my dead body.

Ok, she's town.

Going to comment on Spruance + Eggy post now.

[MiniZed]

Before I do anything else, (I have to go somewhere) my vote on Eggy was to get him to contribute not based on Meta though. I wasn't going to say "I don't scum-read Eggy" because that does nothing. Luckily he contributed more then he did day 1 anyways.

[MiniZed]

Calix claiming that she was the target for the night kill and not Mesk was NAI for me as she would do it as both alignments (but would only have claimed the opposite if she was town and it was true), but:


Ok, she's town.

Going to comment on Spruance + Eggy post now.

Not neutral?

[MiniZed]

@MiniZed you stated a town-read on him after going through his ISO. Please respond to the points raised against him if you'd be so kind.

If your response is "lol don't town-read him anymore" then a detailed walk-through of why you changed your mind would be A.

I'll get to this later, seeing as it involves me responding to the wall post.

[Calix]

Before I do anything else, (I have to go somewhere) my vote on Eggy was to get him to contribute not based on Meta though. I wasn't going to say "I don't scum-read Eggy" because that does nothing. Luckily he contributed more then he did day 1 anyways.

>claims vote is for pressure
>does not unvote now that he's revealed the vote was for pressure and that the main reason for voting Eggy has been made invalid

Not neutral?

Exhibit A of scum trying to keep their lynch options open.

Do you actually read me as Neutral or are you just saying this to doubt-cast?

I still haven't forgotten your complete lack of a read on me, mate.

[Kovath]

Not neutral?

Town-read her D1 and what I quoted emanates town to me hardcore. Doubt she's neutral, so why would I include it? Of course she's not 100% confirmed town, that's self-evident.

[MiniZed]

>claims vote is for pressure
>does not unvote now that he's revealed the vote was for pressure and that the main reason for voting Eggy has been made invalid



Exhibit A of scum trying to keep their lynch options open.

Do you actually read me as Neutral or are you just saying this to doubt-cast?

I still haven't forgotten your complete lack of a read on me, mate.

What do you mean I didn't unvote?

More like commenting on how he's so certain.

Apparently this is considering"doubt cast" opposed to being more cautious then not. I don't know why you've said I castes shade on everyone, but my opinion is there so people can comment on it. If you want to call it shade throwing on everyone, go for it.

Don't really care.

[MiniZed]

Town-read her D1 and what I quoted emanates town to me hardcore. Doubt she's neutral, so why would I include it? Of course she's not 100% confirmed town, that's self-evident.

Her saying that people want to kill her makes her town?

[Calix]

What do you mean I didn't unvote?

More like commenting on how he's so certain.

Apparently this is considering"doubt cast" opposed to being more cautious then not. I don't know why you've said I castes shade on everyone, but my opinion is there so people can comment on it. If you want to call it shade throwing on everyone, go for it.

Don't really care.

Wait, forgot you changed your vote to Kovath. My bad.

"I'm going to write a paragraph justifying myself before claiming that I don't care."

Legit.

You still haven't stated your read on me, nor have you answered why you didn't give a read on me yesterday. Thus your "can't she be Neutral? xDDDD" questioning is throwing shade on me.

[Kovath]

Her saying that people want to kill her makes her town?

Tone and delivery.

[MiniZed]

Wait, forgot you changed your vote to Kovath. My bad.

"I'm going to write a paragraph justifying myself before claiming that I don't care."

Legit.

You still haven't stated your read on me, nor have you answered why you didn't give a read on me yesterday. Thus your "can't she be Neutral? xDDDD" questioning is throwing shade on me.

I wasn't saying I don't care to that, it's in sequence.

Cool, continue the constant mocking it's really enjoyable.

That's what I said I don't care to, lol. I just woke up and I don't want to make a long post on a result I'm already pretty sure of.

Why is that throwing shade? If you want me to go ahead and be like "she can't be neutral and as long as I say this I'm not throwing shade at her and we're all happy"

Throwing shade is saying "she's likely neutral obviously" and anything further. Pondering the idea doesn't = throwing shade.

[MiniZed]

Tone and delivery.

I'm not the only one who uses this, and I don't think it's a bad reasoning.

[Calix]

I wasn't saying I don't care to that, it's in sequence.

Cool, continue the constant mocking it's really enjoyable.

That's what I said I don't care to, lol. I just woke up and I don't want to make a long post on a result I'm already pretty sure of.

Why is that throwing shade? If you want me to go ahead and be like "she can't be neutral and as long as I say this I'm not throwing shade at her and we're all happy"

Throwing shade is saying "she's likely neutral obviously" and anything further. Pondering the idea doesn't = throwing shade.

Because you still haven't said what alignment you think I am or given anything to substantiate your read on me, which allows you to insinuate things without sticking yourself down in anything concrete or taking a side.

You have enough time to whine about how you don't have the time to give a read on me...when you could have just told me.

Cool, continue the constant evasion. It's really enjoyable.

[Kovath]

@Spruance

- Starts the game by trying to crib the "ALWAYS TOWN GUISE" line, then goes on to post some of the most insultingly obvious crap the world has ever seen (there is X% chance of lynching a town guise!) before he gets drawn into a protracted discussion about how DAY 1 IS TOO HARD FOR MEH.

Usual shit he does.

- Claims Eggy scum-slipped but his reasoning makes zero sense. (Kovath wasn't capitalised + join date + 'feels strange' = ???) DB raised a good point when he mentioned Spruance's aversion to scum-reading active players.

First point is correct but probably NAI for this slot - why should we consider it a scum-point? If you believe that he's just trying to survive, would you say this was an excuse to cast his vote randomly somewhere, possibly to fish for a train as well? But then why go back toward sheeping the main trains?

- His defenses and vote reasoning sucks. Most of it is "you did it too!", "you suck/ I already did this so I don't have to do anything else" and "this player is experienced and that scares me so they should die now!"

They always suck, so again, does this suggest a certain narrative to you? I don't see anything particularly compelling toward either alignment.

- Suspicious voting patterns. Admits to OMGUS with NU. Changes votes frequently and goes along with ALL of the popular trains even though he town-read them. (Never Unlucky, DarknessB, Mesk) Seems like he only cares about getting a lynch off on anyone who isn't him.

How does the Eggy vote fit?

- This is reinforced by the fact that he a) claimed DB didn't feel scummy but voted for him when I asked for reasoning and b) voted for Mesk right after MiniZed dropped a shitty ISO on her.

I think I've done the first thing as town before when having a gut feeling that someone wasn't scum but didn't really have an answer on hand when questioned on it (though not sure whether I actually voted). Second part is more fair. I'd just blend it in with the broader picture you're presenting.

- Speaking of the DB vote, his reasoning for thinking that DB could be the Neutral is "he has a good reads list" and "he seems unbiased enough that he probably doesn't have a partner" - this reads like Spruance is informed on what would be a 'good' and 'bad' read on players.

I think the weirder part was the unsubstantiated "unbiased enough" - I'd say there are a number of players that would be unbiased, especially because there are only 2 scummates, so to highlight this here over a particular reads list is odd (what did he think about MiniZed's wall? was it because he was townread by MiniZed?). Does that mean Spruance is seeing bias elsewhere (neutral)? Or perhaps that he's aware of his own bias and his teammate's?

"Good" has more to do with size + analysis present in the read, probably. Though it's odd he'd call that a good reads list and then produce his own unique brand of reads list, lul.

- In addition to this, his Day 2 behaviour follows a similar pattern. Instead of pursuing a lynch on NU/ DB/ anyone that he had previously suspected, he claims that he would be "fine with either a Kovath or Eggy" lynch today. Why? Because of "having the highest probability of flipping scum" - I rest my case for bullshit, generic reasoning that can apply to everyone.

NAI on the bullshit reasoning. The more interesting part of this was that he voted for Eggy again and then myself, who has probably a smaller chance of being lynched: It could be a repeat of D1 behavior in just picking some rando placeholder trains until something clearer develops from the rest of the players, or it could be trying to follow MiniZed while trying to look like not sheeping.

- As this post shows, he later goes on to add MiniZed to the scum pool.

Let's see...he's voted for NU, DB, Mesk and then adds Kovath, MiniZed, Eggy. 6/9 players in the game and the remaining three are the following:

1. Gyrlander/ Simple Joy, a slot which has not been at risk of being lynched nor has it faced much pressure.

2. RLVG/ MattZed, a slot which was AFK for Day 1 and thus was unlikely to result in a lynch.

3. Calix, a slot which was widely town-read, under minimal pressure and was attacked on Night 1.

Tell me how this isn't the behaviour of someone trying to get a lynch on anyone that ISN'T himself.

Don't see anything wrong with this characterization. Now for alignments: Is he neut or a scum-member, and is there anything that pushes that narrative over survivalist and shitty town?

I'm leaning scum now after thinking this through. He seems oddly aware of where his votes are going (shitty placeholders with terrible reasoning in early day, leaves him room to switch away, followed by sheeping big trains later in the day -> suggests that this isn't haphazard) and my thoughts about "unbiased enough" : It suggests to me that this is a scum being premeditated about his approach over a town just being lazy af. The "unbiased" comment has me a little more favored toward a scum-member theory than a neut one, but admittedly it's a weak reason.

[DarknessB]

I'm still catching up, but another potentially implicating point on Spruance would be his rationale for voting me yesterday combined with last night's scum attack. Spruance's rationale was something to the effect of: "he's too dangerous to keep alive" / "he's a dangerous, experienced player". Consider that in light of Calix, the loudest voice in the game, being attacked last night -- it's not a stretch to assume that the scum are afraid of her persuasive ability / status as an experienced player as well. At the very least, Spruance has a fixation with experienced players, who seem to be drawing night actions.

[Eggy]

Jesus Christ, you people are stupid and I'm in the same boat for wasting my time reading the drivel that you call "scum-hunting"

"Oh, Mesk could have been killed by town." - If you took five seconds to READ THE SETUP, you'd realise that the Vigilante's kills take place the night after a player is shot. I don't even know why this is a point for debate.

In any case, Mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me early YET AGAIN and Mesk Body-Doubled me. I see a fair few comments trying to throw shade on me as being a potential Mafia (looking at you, MattZed, Eggy) but none of you thought to ask wherever Mafia can even target themselves before doing that? Looks like doubt-casting to me.


@Iced_Monopoly Can the Mafia target themselves for the night kill?

MattZed with the stupid questions over anything useful. Fuck's sake mate.

Spoiler : MiniZed's 'summary' of the game. A perfect example of why summaries are bullshit. It's horrendously biased and consists largely of subjective details/ interpretations over keeping it simple and focused on the facts.

MiniZed's summary also goes out of its way to throw shade on everyone. If this is how MiniZed views the game then he looks extremely opportunistic. Comments like "oh, Eggy had a weird vote", "everyone kinda stopped pushing me for whatever reason", "XYZ is being odd" looks like he isn't trying to scum-hunt as much as he is just trying to doubt-cast everyone who isn't him.

He's also a hypocrite because he literally uses meta to scum-read Eggy yet accuses me of "using meta more than usual" to suspect him. I say 'suspect' because MiniZed didn't even give a read on me, LMAO :

Only Simple Joy post I found but I like the vibe I got from them so far. Granted, I am biased because I was town-reading Gyrlander but the probing questions are always appreciated.

I was not trying to throw shade at you. I was just stating a distinct possibility. Also I never said scum targeted themself I said you could have targeted mesk. NU already explained this so im not going to reapeat it. I find it strange that you are almost waving around a confirmed status and then you go on to say it would be not a good scum move, when you basically are using it to confirm yourself.

[DarknessB]

Also, I am not under the impression that Calix was attached for having correct Day 1 reads as opposed to "Calix is dangerous / persuasive" meta. Recall that her scumteam narrative for most of Day 1 was Mesk / Darkness. We already know that Mesk was Town and I know that I am Town (whether you believe me is of course another story...), which makes her 0/2 for scumreads during Day 1. I suppose that's more reason for Calix to be pissed in terms of being targeted even when she's not on the right track, but just because she's Calix.

[Calix]

First point is correct but probably NAI for this slot - why should we consider it a scum-point? If you believe that he's just trying to survive, would you say this was an excuse to cast his vote randomly somewhere, possibly to fish for a train as well? But then why go back toward sheeping the main trains?

I think he voted for an inactive so that he didn't draw the ire of any of the more active, aggressive players, then he started to join the viable lynch trains nearer the end of the day.

They always suck, so again, does this suggest a certain narrative to you? I don't see anything particularly compelling toward either alignment.

The other reasons might be NAI, but his focus on experienced players and how they should die early seems like he might be scared of being pressured by them later on. He was referring to DB with that 'experienced' line (a player who had expressed irritation about the lurkers) as well.

I think the weirder part was the unsubstantiated "unbiased enough" - I'd say there are a number of players that would be unbiased, especially because there are only 2 scummates, so to highlight this here over a particular reads list is odd (what did he think about MiniZed's wall? was it because he was townread by MiniZed?). Does that mean Spruance is seeing bias elsewhere (neutral)? Or perhaps that he's aware of his own bias and his teammate's?

This part makes me lean towards Spruance being the Neutral. The fact that he specified that DB could be the Neutral Killing catches me strangely, however. He's either hypersensitive about his own role or he is neutral-hunting. I am leaning towards the former because he kept changing his votes afterwards.

Don't see anything wrong with this characterization. Now for alignments: Is he neut or a scum-member, and is there anything that pushes that narrative over survivalist and shitty town?

I'm leaning scum now after thinking this through. He seems oddly aware of where his votes are going (shitty placeholders with terrible reasoning in early day, leaves him room to switch away, followed by sheeping big trains later in the day -> suggests that this isn't haphazard) and my thoughts about "unbiased enough" : It suggests to me that this is a scum being premeditated about his approach over a town just being lazy af. The "unbiased" comment has me a little more favored toward a scum-member theory than a neut one, but admittedly it's a weak reason.

I think Neutral is more likely because of how indiscriminately he votes but I can see some hints of this coming from Mafia as well. I am not particularly bothered with which one because of the lack of town motivation behind such terrible play.

[Calix]

I was not trying to throw shade at you. I was just stating a distinct possibility. Also I never said scum targeted themself I said you could have targeted mesk. NU already explained this so im not going to reapeat it. I find it strange that you are almost waving around a confirmed status and then you go on to say it would be not a good scum move, when you basically are using it to confirm yourself.

Show me how I'm doing that please. That post has me expressing irritation over me being attacked on Night 1 YET AGAIN. That isn't me 'trying to confirm myself' - that is a fact.

I also explained why it isn't a good scum move. You have not countered my reasoning for why it isn't so why are you acting like that's a bad thing?

[Eggy]

I'd just like to log these string of posts.

(note: they weren't posted consecutively so I might have missed some of the nuances of the discussion. However, the progression and my thoughts on the players are as I read it when I first skimmed the thread)

It starts off with Eggy stating that he has a town lean on Kovath. He claims that NU "doesn't feel genuine" in his scum-hunting and only states the obvious. This is a point that has been repeated on multiple occasions by DB, Kovath and MiniZed so I don't see any original analysis there.

NU, as per usual, immediately launches in to attack anyone accusing him. I don't disagree with his analysis in this example, but so far this just reads as another example of NU caring more and putting more effort into defending himself as opposed to legitimately trying to sort players.

MiniZed enters with some pointers about why he scum-reads Kovath. I dislike the focus on "feels" over anything substantial and the lack of examples aggravates me.

This is where it gets interesting - Eggy immediately abandons the town lean that he previously held about Kovath in favour of fueling the "Kovath could be neutral" scenario. This conformity with someone else's opinions pinged me as scummy.

I said TOWISH=null town. So much so that he is the only person I forgot to mention in my intitial reads. I still have a slight town/read on him that didnt change, he was the least strong of my town leans though so why would I not take other possibilites (such as neutral since I didnt think he was rlly scum, and i've never played with neutrals so I dont know if I would mistake the playstyle for slight town or not. I did not abandon my weird what so ever, I just agreed that he is not strikingly town or scummy which conforms with my forst read.

[Eggy]

Show me how I'm doing that please. That post has me expressing irritation over me being attacked on Night 1 YET AGAIN. That isn't me 'trying to confirm myself' - that is a fact.

I also explained why it isn't a good scum move. You have not countered my reasoning for why it isn't so why are you acting like that's a bad thing?

I think it would be a very good scum move. Because it makes you look way more towny than you even were. And you would have a chance to manipulate mesks last will so that everyone all but is convinced that you are town. And then you can take the position of town leader and push mislynches. I still think you are town I just think that is a pretty damn good move if you were scum. I dont see a better nightkill.

[Eggy]

Jesus Christ, you people are stupid and I'm in the same boat for wasting my time reading the drivel that you call "scum-hunting"

"Oh, Mesk could have been killed by town." - If you took five seconds to READ THE SETUP, you'd realise that the Vigilante's kills take place the night after a player is shot. I don't even know why this is a point for debate.

In any case, Mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me early YET AGAIN and Mesk Body-Doubled me. I see a fair few comments trying to throw shade on me as being a potential Mafia (looking at you, MattZed, Eggy) but none of you thought to ask wherever Mafia can even target themselves before doing that? Looks like doubt-casting to me.


@Iced_Monopoly Can the Mafia target themselves for the night kill?

MattZed with the stupid questions over anything useful. Fuck's sake mate.

Spoiler : MiniZed's 'summary' of the game. A perfect example of why summaries are bullshit. It's horrendously biased and consists largely of subjective details/ interpretations over keeping it simple and focused on the facts.

MiniZed's summary also goes out of its way to throw shade on everyone. If this is how MiniZed views the game then he looks extremely opportunistic. Comments like "oh, Eggy had a weird vote", "everyone kinda stopped pushing me for whatever reason", "XYZ is being odd" looks like he isn't trying to scum-hunt as much as he is just trying to doubt-cast everyone who isn't him.

He's also a hypocrite because he literally uses meta to scum-read Eggy yet accuses me of "using meta more than usual" to suspect him. I say 'suspect' because MiniZed didn't even give a read on me, LMAO :

Only Simple Joy post I found but I like the vibe I got from them so far. Granted, I am biased because I was town-reading Gyrlander but the probing questions are always appreciated.

You said mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me. In other words you are confirmed to be town? If mafia trying to kill you is confirmed then that confirms you as not mafia at least. Right?

[DarknessB]

I said TOWISH=null town. So much so that he is the only person I forgot to mention in my intitial reads. I still have a slight town/read on him that didnt change, he was the least strong of my town leans though so why would I not take other possibilites (such as neutral since I didnt think he was rlly scum, and i've never played with neutrals so I dont know if I would mistake the playstyle for slight town or not. I did not abandon my weird what so ever, I just agreed that he is not strikingly town or scummy which conforms with my forst read.

Honestly, Kovath is a very slight Town-read if that and that read would be mostly based on the contribution = Town misnomer. There's a certain allergicness in his play to jump into the mud this game. Instead, he tends to remain somewhat detached with long wallposts that tend to show some suspicion of player, but he never really makes a strong stand for much.

I've been excoriated / harshly scumread by players like Calix before for being hesitant to cast votes early in games when I ended up rolling scum / neutral. To that end, I believe Kovath cast maybe two votes yesterday? His RVS vote and then at Mesk during the end of the day? I feel like he is trying to avoid making strong enemies by treating everyone with a little bit of suspicion, but never really pushing on anyone. Smells a bit Neutral to me, in terms of not making any strong enemies early in the game who might be inclined to push against him.

[Eggy]

And then you dismiss the idea by not "understanding what we were saying" and then when it is explained again you dismiss it as "not a good scum move."

[DarknessB]

And then you dismiss the idea by not "understanding what we were saying" and then when it is explained again you dismiss it as "not a good scum move."

Honestly, it's a dumb idea to night kill Calix to start the game because everyone knows that it's very likely to happen, even to the extent of the "if Calix survives Night 1, she's scum" joke. Given our site's sad meta on that, it's not a surprise that Mesk as a protective guarded Calix. Leads me to believe that the groupscum have at least one derpy or reckless-type player, especially given Mesk's soft clues to the effect of "Calix and I will speak tonight" in Day 1.

[Calix]

I said TOWISH=null town. So much so that he is the only person I forgot to mention in my intitial reads. I still have a slight town/read on him that didnt change, he was the least strong of my town leans though so why would I not take other possibilites (such as neutral since I didnt think he was rlly scum, and i've never played with neutrals so I dont know if I would mistake the playstyle for slight town or not. I did not abandon my weird what so ever, I just agreed that he is not strikingly town or scummy which conforms with my forst read.

Null-town is different from town lean how, exactly?

I don't see how anyone forgets about Kovath, honestly. It's not like he's been sitting back and doing jack shit.

I think it would be a very good scum move. Because it makes you look way more towny than you even were. And you would have a chance to manipulate mesks last will so that everyone all but is convinced that you are town. And then you can take the position of town leader and push mislynches. I still think you are town I just think that is a pretty damn good move if you were scum. I dont see a better nightkill.

Would be good if it was someone else who didn't have a reputation for constantly getting shot.

I hold the position of town leader regardless of how confirmed I am.

It's a stupid move because trying to 'confirm myself as town' would 100% attract the attention of the Supernatural who would then kill me N2.

You said mafia are confirmed to be lazy cunts who tried to kill me. In other words you are confirmed to be town? If mafia trying to kill you is confirmed then that confirms you as not mafia at least. Right?

Well, they did try to kill me. That is stating a fact, like I said.

No, because there is always the possibility that I am Neutral, something you discount in that 'Calix wants to confirm herself' theory.

And then you dismiss the idea by not "understanding what we were saying" and then when it is explained again you dismiss it as "not a good scum move."

Why are you trying to paint my misinterpretation of the arguments that I could be team scum as scummy? You make it sound like I was being deliberately obtuse.

Again, you still haven't explained how my reasoning is flawed.