S-FM 210: Give or Take

[BananaCucho]

How am I "framing yz" lol you have not given any defense of him other than its what scum wants us to do. Like damn you cant be town and ignore his scummy ass behavior the entire game lol

Banana protects those that kiss the royal ring.

[BananaCucho]

This is actually quite possible lol, not so sure about titus tho lol. If thats turns out to be the scum team I hope you get banned for game throwing

lmao

[Eggy]

If you have nothing useful to say keep it to urself.

[Eggy]

Banana protects those that kiss the royal ring.

Ur a troll and scummy as hell enjoy your loss its gnna b your own fault lol thanks for making this game so easy lol

[BananaCucho]

If you have nothing useful to say keep it to urself.

Keep calling my posts useless, I mean calling my vote garbage sure worked out for NU didn't it

[BananaCucho]

Ur a troll and scummy as hell enjoy your loss its gnna b your own fault lol thanks for making this game so easy lol

You equate troll with scummy do you? Interesting.

[Eggy]

Im out someone mention me later once people have caught up

[Eggy]

You equate troll with scummy do you? Interesting.

Lol now I dont dont twist my words I said you are a troll AND you are scummy as fuck there is no relation between the e

[Eggy]

Between the 2

[BananaCucho]

Lol now I dont dont twist my words I said you are a troll AND you are scummy as fuck there is no relation between the e

What about my posts is scummy other than "others sum read you"

[BananaCucho]

@Eggy

[BananaCucho]

[Eggy]

Your random defense of YZ and then voting of me when I highlighted his scum play? Your initial post saying how you shouldnt be lynched because you are experienced yet all you seem to do is troll? Your fake claim or Idk wtf you were doing when u were saying u were gnna peek MZ you are just scummy as fuck.

[Eggy]

Dont mention me again you are a troll

[BananaCucho]

@Eggy

[Eggy]

@Eggy

Fuck you

[BananaCucho]

Triggered

[yzb25]

Let me try a little more level-headed approach

My response was very emotional, please let me explain myself.

(1)I'm shocked that you agree with the player pushing back against the person scumreading you -- really, no kidding!(2) Scum are just as motivated to get rid of those who suspect them, especially when that player wasn't particularly active / vocal and had promised to be more so today.

Response: (1) is NAI. Naturally I agree with people who disagree with scumreads on me lol. In regards to (2), I just explained the dangers of reading the scumkill.

Why I'm pissed: In this exchange, DB proposed a chain of reasoning (reading the scumkill), I dismantled the base of the chain (scum wants you to read scumkill, scum very hard to read), and then DB continued to extend the chain anyway (scum wants to kill people who will scumread them) It's like he completely ignored what I said.

"Yes, it's possible they did that. Doesn't explain the rest of your d1 behavior though -- excessive policy lynch analysis, IIOA in lieu of opinions at EOD, suddenly changing your vote to lynch NU at EOD and saying that I convinced you when there was no progression to suggest that. "

Response: I've already given explanations. As I said with max patronization earlier, you now should counter the explanations, not ignore them.

Why I'm pissed: This is unbeatable. No matter how much I repeat explanations, you can say "you haven't" in that oh-so-convincing fashion and everyone will trust you. Again, I'm being ignored.

"Reads evolve and you take additional happenings in the game into account, such as your YOLO lynch of your supposed Townread, NU. When you get more data (i.e. NU's flip), you should go back and review what's happened in the game from that vantage point."

Response: If my PL is relevant again due to the NU mislynch, you should explain specifically how it links to the mislynch of NU and my vote. You haven't explained the link.

Why I'm pissed: Wtf? The first time he brought this up, he just said "yzb was focused on PLs". How am I supposed to know he had some hidden reasoning that linked it to the NU mislynch?! He's literally moved the playing field mid-debate when called out on his contradiction. And he's done it so naturally noone will notice.

"We're early in Day 2. I've given a theory as to what I think is going on -- you're free to posit your own. You literally have one vote on you and you're jumping into the OMFG I'M GETTING LYNCHED level defense. If anything, you're the one who is writing a giant tome to discredit all of my play right now instead of defending your own. That's a classic scumplay -- not focused on your own play, but trying to discredit your accuser. You're also giving yourself a lot of credit as the "one player" who didn't agree with the lynch. How about SP or Mesk for that matter?"

Response: Sorry for not having a theory ready just after my scumread got torn apart. Anyway, about half of the "tome" is a defense. And I've made numerous references to the townish things I've done. Also, my emotional response to your one vote is now being explained. It is a big deal. Also, I didn't say I'm the "one player" who disagreed with the NU lynch, I said I'm the "one player" who proactively spent ages trying to talk down the players in the NU lynch. Also, the sum of all the posts about me you've made today is a bit shorter than my "tome", but pulling apart bullshit takes longer than saying it.

I'm pissed because I wrote reasons I feel you're acting scummy and defenses of my townplay, but they've all been ignored. I'm pissed because I feel like he's doing the above with almost everything I say, and I'm pissed because he's going to fucking get away with it because this argument is going to get half-read and people will place votes on me out of instinct.

"Yeah, you were too busy posting summaries for the two AFK players -- that's exactly my point. You didn't share your thoughts, perhaps because you were afraid of slipping or saying something that you didn't intend. It's very easy and safe to post summaries that I doubt Banana and Ginger are even going to read. Funny how you didn't point out this view (that NU needed to be lynched) until 5 minutes before EOD. Before that, you were almost hoping that some lurker like Eggy would come and hammer NU -- you directly said that yourself."

Response: As I've already said, by that point, I had shared my scumread (and voted on them), tried to implore others into looking into why I scumread them, tried to placate the train on my townread to BC and Titus, and written why I townread NU (and sent it to you). As I've already said, continuing to do that was pointless given the vote count. I'm sorry for not explaining my change of mind. Everyone else had explained the reasons. I assumed it was reasonable to believe I changed my mind. I didn't think I'd be scumread for hammering for the reasons nearly everyone else currently present posted and persuaded me with.

Why I'm pissed: Explanation ignored, explanation ignored, explanation ignored.

"I heard the explanation, I just don't accept it."
"You've explained this, but you haven't explained everything else."
"You haven't explained many things"
"You continually refuse to explain yourself and bounce attention on to me."

GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEAD AND STOP FUCKING IGNORING ME

Debating DarknessB when he goes into this mode is like debating the world's most intelligent creationist - it doesn't matter if you're in the right - they're superior to you, and superiority determines the winner.

Anyway, I wanted to explain my emotional response. Sorry for being intimate. Sorry if I lose town the game because of my childish complexes heh.

[BananaCucho]

Jesus that's a wall Trump would be jealous of

[yzb25]

Jesus that's a wall Trump would be jealous of

I realized the reason people didn't like my wallposts was because they weren't large enough. So I've made them larger, and added a repetitive structure to keep the reader interested.

[Mesk514]

Well, I find myself in a tough situation...

Do I take the side of the mentor that made me the person I am today, or my high school fuck

uh

well

tbh I think I'm taking Eggys side on this one

-vote BananaCucho

[secondpassing]

Well in case anyone is here, I'm pissed because my phone broke because of an update I did not want.
So now I can't annoy you all with my phone posts.

[secondpassing]

Can someone tell me (best if it was Titus herself) why the Titus train dissipated yesterday? How is she town now?

Titus, can you pick out a post where you were "bleeding town emotion"? I don't see any.

Though she saw that Never Unlucky saw her as town, she never unvoted him. That's rather opportunistic.

Her play has continued to be reactive. Calling posts against her as shade by Never Unlucky.

[BananaCucho]

Can someone tell me (best if it was Titus herself) why the Titus train dissipated yesterday? How is she town now?

Titus, can you pick out a post where you were "bleeding town emotion"? I don't see any.

Though she saw that Never Unlucky saw her as town, she never unvoted him. That's rather opportunistic.

Her play has continued to be reactive. Calling posts against her as shade by Never Unlucky.

It may be that Titus might be sum but the early ling rush on her makes me think not. That shit started with MZ'd poor host meta vote and people piled on. No thanks, not voting Titus today either.

[secondpassing]

If that's the reason you are scum-reading me, because of my emotion, you won't like the end result.

This is vaguely linked with another post, but just treat this question as by itself:

Context- Never Unlucky and you talked, and you replied with something like "not wanting to play as your [poopy] playstyle"
If you aren't trying to play the same as Black Flag Nightless, what are you planning/doing to change your playstyle this game?

::

Serpate question:
What would you like to convince me of?

[secondpassing]

The word choice in his insults. You don't run around calling your scumreads dumb. By insulting my play as dub rather than scummy, it indicates a townread. No one calls their scumreadthe townbeard.

So did you kill him for that?

*double hands up troll face here* Ugh sc2mafia why you so sloww.

[BananaCucho]

So did you kill him for that?

*double hands up troll face here* Ugh sc2mafia why you so sloww.

Pls, I'm the one who made the hit, not Titus.

[MiniZed]

Sorry I havent soonen much, I plan to do that now and when I wake up.

[BananaCucho]

Sorry I havent soonen much, I plan to do that now and when I wake up.

Of the fab five I'm leaning towards you being the I'm still

[BananaCucho]

The scum... Stupid new phone can't get it right

[MiniZed]

The scummy part is the sudden flip-flop on account of "Darkness convinced me". When did I do that exactly? Yzb was adamantly saying he woudn't vote for NU, and suddenly, when he was faced with a no lynch, he flips his vote onto him. Also, did you read the 4-5 other reasons I have a questionable read on him?

1. Sudden change of vote without explanation.
2. Overuse of IIOA (summaries)
3. Overuse of general Mafia strategy (policy lynch debate)
4. MZ (Town) scumread him, as the one noteable read he emphasized.
5. Was being a bit too friendly to me during d1 (new reason)

I gotta be honest, this still feels oppourtunistic to me, and I'll explain why.

Yzb25 is legit the NU to Calix. I'm not sure if he's madly in love with you, but it's fairly evident he looks up to you. For the EOD comment, I don't see why him voting is a bad thing. You were talking a lot about how no Lynches leaves us nothing, and I know that point was reinforced but you could also tell he voted NU because he was arrogant and lashing out. It's pretty obvious with what he wrote.

1.) I can't speak for him, but as I said I don't think he found NU cooperative given his post. Whether what you said actually convinced him or if he was just pissed off I don't find it that scummy. Why did you guilt someone into voting if you were just going to lash out on him?

2.) that feels more of a personality thing. I don't see why it's bad or why it's scummy so I might need more clarification.

3.) why would scum need to be open about this? I fail to see why they would do this either.

4.) Yes, it was very obvious they both scum-read each other. My issue is how quickly you came to make a case against yzb and how you failed to consider a framing possibility.

5.) Out of game reference, but before the sign ups even started he asked you for his autograph. I don't know how this comes as a surprise or why you suddenly bring it up now.

[MiniZed]

theres 10 of us left
7 are town

there's no one in this game so far that has striked me as solid town

on that note, i really thought MattZed was a potential scum but he wasn't so for that I'm kinda baffled to say the least

honestly right now I think MiniZed and Banana are scum

Banana's role claim seemed more like a ploy to draw out reaction

MiniZed seemed to be defending Banana

quotes to come

must read some more stuff

I'm not sure what makes you think we are scum, have you even seen our interactions outside of Banana's claim?

I'm sorry if we don't reach the same conclusion, but I compare Banana's actions similar to Ducks town antics. It's not a good reference, but my point stands that there was no reason for scum to do that even without reading the setup.

[MiniZed]

Anyway



Are you now caught up? We need to question you so you're not policy lynched for having shit taste in 2d girls.

Darkness is right. Try to actually interact other then saying "are you caught up yet" it feels like a low key way to encourage teammates to talk.

[MiniZed]

-vote yzb25

there is no way in hell this man is not scum

You sheeped points from Darkness to stick it on yzb25. I'll ask you a question though.

Nobody town-read MattZed as far as I'm sure. Unless the Vig killed Matt, which I don't really know if they would have, what would yzb25 gain from Matt's death?

[MiniZed]

Well, I find myself in a tough situation...

Do I take the side of the mentor that made me the person I am today, or my high school fuck

uh

well

tbh I think I'm taking Eggys side on this one

-vote BananaCucho

You make everything so dramatic for whatever reason.

Eggy's argument is yzb is scum and being defended by Banana. Eggy voted yzb. If you believe Eggy why aren't you voting against yzb because the only reason he finds banana scummy (that was mentioned aside from the claim) is because she defended yzb.

I don't get why the play so do scummy to you.

[MiniZed]

This is vaguely linked with another post, but just treat this question as by itself:

Context- Never Unlucky and you talked, and you replied with something like "not wanting to play as your [poopy] playstyle"
If you aren't trying to play the same as Black Flag Nightless, what are you planning/doing to change your playstyle this game?

::

Serpate question:
What would you like to convince me of?

My play goal was for me to play better. Starting from the beginning, I've been trying to be more productive with my time by asking questions to help me with my reads. I know that's I've used a lot of pre-flip associations in the past, so as a more mental note I've been using that less. Laziness was a big factor in my past plays, even though I had IRL issues I was too big on it. I've been doing better at that hopefully.

What was the point of these two questions? (Why did you ask them?) it feels weird and I don't get what it does in this current situation.

"Convince" is not the right word. Unless you are implying I'm scum, I'm trying to improve my town play this game so I guess I'm proving that??

[secondpassing]

-vote Titus

[secondpassing]

My play goal was for me to play better. Starting from the beginning, I've been trying to be more productive with my time by asking questions to help me with my reads. I know that's I've used a lot of pre-flip associations in the past, so as a more mental note I've been using that less. Laziness was a big factor in my past plays, even though I had IRL issues I was too big on it. I've been doing better at that hopefully.

What was the point of these two questions? (Why did you ask them?) it feels weird and I don't get what it does in this current situation.

"Convince" is not the right word. Unless you are implying I'm scum, I'm trying to improve my town play this game so I guess I'm proving that??

I don't actually know what you've produced from asking questions. What did you learn? Are you continuing to use that to incorporate into your playstyle? How has it worked out for you?
Were you surprised by Never Unlucky's flip?

"I'm emotional" is what I got from your self-claim(?) Correct me if I'm wrong. Though you are "emotional" I can't read what emotion you're trying to convey to me-- which may be because I'm not too in touch with emotions right now. How are you feeling? What are you fearing/what could go wrong?

I think convince is the right word. I'm asking what view do you have that is different than mine, and that you need to convince me of.
There is but one truth-- I am town, and three are scum. If we do not find the answer, then I am dead.
What would you like to convince me of?

[BananaCucho]

Honestly the Titus vote makes 0 sense. You had me.voted at the end of day 1 why Titus now? I have a vote already so it would make more sense to vote me.

[secondpassing]

Honestly the Titus vote makes 0 sense. You had me.voted at the end of day 1 why Titus now? I have a vote already so it would make more sense to vote me.

I preferred to lynch Titus over you at EoD. I only switched over due to time constraints.

[BananaCucho]

That's silly.

[Mesk514]

Mesk (Me) = Citizen
MattZed = Citizen
Never Unlucky = Citizen

Eggy = Citizen/Scum - leaning more Citizen
YZB - potential scum
Banana - potenital scum
SecondPassing - potential scum
Titus
Darkness
Unknown
GameFreak, should probably be replaced by now I have this slot as Null
Gingerape

at this moment honestly, I'm just dying for YZB, Banana Or SecondPassing to die. all three of those deaths to me are definitely telling.
I feel like a MattZed kill was just random one. Even I personally would have gone on to today tunneling MattZed, so I don't see why he needed to die.

Unless of course someone thought he was a TPR.

[BananaCucho]

Mesk (Me) = Citizen
MattZed = Citizen
Never Unlucky = Citizen

Eggy = Citizen/Scum - leaning more Citizen
YZB - potential scum
Banana - potenital scum
SecondPassing - potential scum
Titus
Darkness
Unknown
GameFreak, should probably be replaced by now I have this slot as Null
Gingerape

at this moment honestly, I'm just dying for YZB, Banana Or SecondPassing to die. all three of those deaths to me are definitely telling.
I feel like a MattZed kill was just random one. Even I personally would have gone on to today tunneling MattZed, so I don't see why he needed to die.

Unless of course someone thought he was a TPR.

No no, Titus is my teammate, not sp, smh

[Mesk514]

No no, Titus is my teammate, not sp, smh

I'm too mentally incapable of figuring out what this means....

[secondpassing]

I'm too mentally incapable of figuring out what this means....

She just wants you to use pre-flip associations and:
SecondPassing - potential scum
Titus

->

Titus -potential scum
SecondPassing

[Eggy]

Well, I find myself in a tough situation...

Do I take the side of the mentor that made me the person I am today, or my high school fuck

uh

well

tbh I think I'm taking Eggys side on this one

-vote BananaCucho

You made the right choice ;)

[Eggy]

You make everything so dramatic for whatever reason.

Eggy's argument is yzb is scum and being defended by Banana. Eggy voted yzb. If you believe Eggy why aren't you voting against yzb because the only reason he finds banana scummy (that was mentioned aside from the claim) is because she defended yzb.

I don't get why the play so do scummy to you.

What I had banana in my scum pile from her first post lol

[Eggy]

You sheeped points from Darkness to stick it on yzb25. I'll ask you a question though.

Nobody town-read MattZed as far as I'm sure. Unless the Vig killed Matt, which I don't really know if they would have, what would yzb25 gain from Matt's death?

I dont think any scum had anything to gain from mattzeds death and thts y I think vigi killed him. Pretty sure banana just claimed that she killed him lol

[BananaCucho]

She just wants you to use pre-flip associations and:
SecondPassing - potential scum
Titus

->

Titus -potential scum
SecondPassing

You tried to explain a joke and even confused me now lol

[BananaCucho]

I dont think any scum had anything to gain from mattzeds death and thts y I think vigi killed him. Pretty sure banana just claimed that she killed him lol

I am the invest-vig, didn't you hear?