New Neutral Role : Puppet Master

[MissingNo]

Role: Puppet Master
Team: Neutral Evil
Description: The Puppet Master is an evil man who uses dark magic to control corpses.
Ability: Can control the recently dead.
Spec Abilities:
- Type -s to switch between yourself and your puppet. You can talk and vote as your puppet.
- At night target a player. If they are killed that night, they instead do not appear to have died and become your puppet. If you get a new puppet then your old one goes to the graveyard and appears to have died the way they originally died.
- If you target yourself, it will let your current puppet die.
Sheriff: NS
Invest: Trespassing, Disturbing the peace
Goal: See the town lose.

Optional:
-Puppet is invulnerable at night Default: OFF
-Puppet's last will can be changed Default: ON
-A revealed mayor puppet loses votes Default: OFF


Notes:
You can only have 1 puppet at a time. The Player who gets puppet-ed still dies regularly just nobody sees them die. Your puppet is only good for day chat, voting, and last will editing. You do not get to use them at night. If the Puppet Master dies, so does the puppet. Puppets look the same as they did before becoming a puppet to invests and sheriffs.


If it isn't clear let me know.

[Beuzmoker]

I really like the concept.

But what if your puppet is a Crier, can it still speak at night ?

What happen if a Disguiser kill your puppet ?

What happen if a Cultist convert your puppet ?

If your puppet is a revealed Mayor, does it votes count for 3/4 ?

[MissingNo]

I really like the concept.

But what if your puppet is a Crier, can it still speak at night ?

What happen if a Disguiser kill your puppet ?

What happen if a Cultist convert your puppet ?

If your puppet is a revealed Mayor, does it votes count for 3/4 ?

You can't use night abilities of your puppet so that would extend to Crier.

I added an option for mayor puppets.

I believe for cult it would have to be not able to be converted.

I'm undecided for disguiser.
It can either tell the disguiser that the target is already dead, similar to when a disguiser targets someone who happens to die that night.
Or it can simply let the disguiser do his thing (assuming night immunity is off). The puppet would then die instead as far as the master is concerned and everything else would proceed normally.

Actually now that I thought and typed it out, I think it should let the disguiser disguise. The Puppet Master will know who the disguiser is (since they will lose their puppet and their puppet will now be talking as someone else) but that shouldn't matter. Firstly because the Puppet Master generally wants to side with the maf and secondly because puppets are usually gained through maf targets. This mean maf often should figure out who is a puppet based on them "surviving" an attack and talking different or not claiming healed.

[deathworlds]

I like this.

[louiswill]

It should be the last faction alive instead of see town lose.

This role has much potential, please don't make it a Must-side-with-mafia type.

[MissingNo]

It should be the last faction alive instead of see town lose.

This role has much potential, please don't make it a Must-side-with-mafia type.

It would be super hard to win solo. You would have to get it to you and 2 other ppl. Then you select 1 and maf targets them and you use both you and the puppet to vote the maf off.

Or you could try to use you and a puppet to lynch the maf off while there are only 1-2 towns left.

I think see the town lose is the best way for it, especially since maf can often figure out a puppet master is in the game if their kill target doesn't die and acts funny.

[Apocist]

How would you handle a Puppet Master targeting player A, and a disguiser targeting player A?

[MissingNo]

How would you handle a Puppet Master targeting player A, and a disguiser targeting player A?

Well, A is now the disguiser so I'd say they wouldn't get a puppet because A isn't dead. (B, the disguiser, is now A for all intents and purposes)

I'd say they would get a puppet if they target B.

[Apocist]

I believe the person that killed player A(which A is now the puppet) would suspect A instantly as a puppet, mafia, or sk and the only defense it would have is to have been healed/vested

[MissingNo]

I believe the person that killed player A(which A is now the puppet) would suspect A instantly as a puppet, mafia, or sk and the only defense it would have is to have been healed/vested

This is unrelated to your disguiser question, right?


If I am reading it right, then yes that is part of the role. Usually, though, it is the mafia who did the attack and they have no reason to out a puppet. If not, then you can use heal/vest/bus/witch etc as a defense (or calling someone a liar/executioner).

Worst case scenario the vigi figures out your puppet and the town wastes a day lynching virtually nobody.

[Apocist]

This is unrelated to your disguiser question, right?


If I am reading it right, then yes that is part of the role. Usually, though, it is the mafia who did the attack and they have no reason to out a puppet. If not, then you can use heal/vest/bus/witch etc as a defense (or calling someone a liar/executioner).

Worst case scenario the vigi figures out your puppet and the town wastes a day lynching virtually nobody.

Yes it was unrelated. The role seems to be like a evil neutral disguiser. I could even see this role being placed as apart of Mafia. I'm assuming that the puppet dies when the puppet master dies as well

[Gyver]

Yes it was unrelated. The role seems to be like a evil neutral disguiser. I could even see this role being placed as apart of Mafia. I'm assuming that the puppet dies when the puppet master dies as well

I think it's too powerful as a member of a team. Able to false claim to put someone on the stand with little consequence, able to know who the mafia is going to target to puppet, able to give the mafia an extra vote bringing the mafia vote majority end game that much quicker.


By itself, it is a nerfed witch doctor.

[MissingNo]

I'm assuming that the puppet dies when the puppet master dies as well

Ya

[MissingNo]

By itself, it is a nerfed witch doctor.

I don't agree with that but I understand your comparison. The biggest difference is that the mafia want to work with the PM.

Other notable differences:

-You can kamikaze your puppet by doing regularly risky strats such as "sheriff here, 5 is mafia. lynch me tomorrow if wrong"

-You can write a convincing last will claiming a town to be mafia then letting your puppet die (role still looks town when they die die).

-You have full control over the person. Sometimes your culties are bad or straight up afk.

[Apocist]

So this is basically a ventro with voting power. You turn s player into you're smurf. I think the voting power could be OP

[MissingNo]

So this is basically a ventro with voting power. You turn s player into you're smurf. I think the voting power could be OP

I just looked this up https://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Ventriloquist .

I'd point out these differences other than voting power:

-it is a neutral role
-it requires the target to have been attacked
-it is permanent (or until the puppet dies)
-it can use the last will

[Apocist]

I meant the sc2maf version of ventro, but yes

[louiswill]

It would need to survive till end anyway. Win together with other evil roles do not make it easier, judging from "friendly"fire.

In later game, puppet master would be able to predict killing action much more accurate,

In that sense, I do not think it would be a harder role than witch or executioner or cultists in most situations.

If really too hard, you can always turn the host options default ON.

HAve I added rep to You YET?