S-FM 223: Cult of Zed

[Firebringer]

On the other hand, FB is a different ball game. In the 5 scum-games I've seen him play, he's sprinkled town emotion all over the place very effectively.

Also, FB is a very risk-averse and "epic" player. Him taking risks doesn't surprise me at all. Furthermore, the SP vote looked more like a fuse-blow anyway.

P.S. If you really think I'm capable of doing all this as scum then obviously you should put me in the null pile lol.

Don't you mean I am not risk averse at all?
Risk averse means I play the safe route.

Also appreciate all the comments here. You make me blush.

[ika]

so apprently mobile doesnt want to load and we are out. if somone needed something do an @ im remot desktop

[Quick]

I originally townread FB for that post where he was like "fuck all my scumreads are dismantled". I respect tonereading him as town. However, with all townreads you have to question self-awareness/skill - i.e. "Does FB have the self-awareness/skill to make his tone sound towny anyway?" [yes]. So I disregarded the read as unreliable.

I get the feeling FB planned to do the TPR claim from early on and check the setup afterwards to see how fucked he was. I'm ignoring it as NAI lol.

FB made comments like "those who don't vote SP will be pushed tomorrow". It was hyperbolic, but it implies FB heavily townread SP, because he seemed to be naturally assuming SP wasn't CL, and the game wouldn't end after his lynch. Honestly, the vote looked like some kind of... erm... fuseblow. Anyway, you think scum!Firebringer lacks the balls to go balls deep?

What makes you think Gyr is scum?

This is not good yzb content. This is shit from you. It feels like you are different this day. Less wanting to make wall posts for God knows what reason and now this extremely reachy post.

[ika]

Why does it have to be one name only? That makes no sense why you get hung up on the fact that he says two people.

Saying two defeats the purpose of the activity.

Also are you still town reading USB? If so are you going to register the case I made or not?

Pedit: nvm then guess it's self answered

[Quick]

"SB's inconsistent motivation (bouncing between being disinterested to suddenly caring when he realizes he actually doesn't want to get lynched and then back to losing interest) is not CLish. A CL would be uniform because he's holding all of his posts to a certain standard to make sure he doesn't get shit on. SB doesn't seem like someone who's got a uniform, consistent goal that he's trying to follow. He looks like a town who is struggling to find the time/motivation to dedicate enough effort to the game."

"Plus, the way he felt awkward pride about the Ika reaction test thing looked genuine AF. It felt like a series of emotions a scum wouldn't express unless they were really getting into pretending to scumhunt. I just wouldn't expect someone who's so all over the place to be able to focus so hard on being creating such a genuine towny reaction."

Even though there's a couple counter-hypotheses you can dredge out -

"SB was trying to play background CL but when he got called out he had to play more forefront but was able to slip back into the background when he could. The highly-natural-looking reaction to Ika in the moment was a moment of luck/skill."

"SB was completely aware of all of this and tailored his play to get these obscure townreads from me."

They seem less plausible than the "SB's posts are town having town emotions" explanation.

On the other hand, FB is a different ball game. In the 5 scum-games I've seen him play, he's sprinkled town emotion all over the place very effectively.

Also, FB is a very risk-averse and "epic" player. Him taking risks doesn't surprise me at all. Furthermore, the SP vote looked more like a fuse-blow anyway.

P.S. If you really think I'm capable of doing all this as scum then obviously you should put me in the null pile lol.

IDK your Scum game, but in this post I can see the angle that you are trying to say more than you really are. Null it is then.

[Quick]

Saying two defeats the purpose of the activity.

Also are you still town reading USB? If so are you going to register the case I made or not?

Pedit: nvm then guess it's self answered

Dumb argument. I'm not going to have a back and forth with you over this.

I will just say Ika's tone seems a bit too abrasive for me to just hand him a town read for nothing.

[ika]

This is a shit reason to think someone is Scum IMO. Because someone wants to PL someone means they are Scum in what world?

It is because a cl setup it's perfect to fall back on.

How about you give me something better then it's shit?

I mean litarly his entire read list he made there is an easy way to cult outside of it and push every lynch with no blame on himself. How about you address the points in full

[ika]

Dumb argument. I'm not going to have a back and forth with you over this.

I will just say Ika's tone seems a bit too abrasive for me to just hand him a town read for nothing.

So your cult leader who doesn't want to fight? Good you can eat rope then

[ika]

This game is SO fucking slow right now.

@Quick Your Ika read is outdated and everyone townreads Ika. Refurbish your case or it'll never happen.

@ika Same to you regarding Quick - Most people TR him. Make a case.

@Mesk514 Noone seems to SR me but you, and noone seems to SR firebringer but me and you. Noone's even noticed Gyr. Share some of your reasoning or your lynches will never happen.

@Stealthbomber16 Explain how FB's posts felt towny to you, or my vote will basically be locked. Propose a lynch candidate.

@Gyrlander You have no right to be pissed about the SP lynch. You're like the guy who rages about election results but doesn't vote. Push a lynch.

Please. Pretty please. Pretty pretty please.

He litarly made it himself. The before of not refuting the points (and that's what possed me off and rage cus I'm just being ignored) and now he still doesn't want to do it.

I would expect town quick to at least flesh out his thoughts and give more reasons on why or I dunno, ADRESS MY POINTS

[ika]

Now I'm the only user... joy

[Cass]

Whew!

I'm here and caught up \o/

Need sleep so pls excuse if/when things get erratic, have a heap of half-thoughts to follow up from sporadic notes overnight.

Firstly @ika - why ask the 'who would you convert' question? I'm with yzb on this - I legit can't see how this is helpful for Town moving forward- discussing it seems like a bad idea - afaict all answers except one are purely hypothetical/get us nowhere, Cult get ideas on who they can push/should avoid/can setup with future recruiting and the one 'true' answer is likely to be WIFOMed to the hilt?

TLDR Town get dead ends/nothing concrete, Cult get future ammo.

How does this help Town? / How is this acceptably different to putting cult strategy ideas on the table in depth D1?

Same question @Firebringer / anyone else pushing it today that I've missed.

[ika]

Whew!

I'm here and caught up \o/

Need sleep so pls excuse if/when things get erratic, have a heap of half-thoughts to follow up from sporadic notes overnight.

Firstly @ika - why ask the 'who would you convert' question? I'm with yzb on this - I legit can't see how this is helpful for Town moving forward- discussing it seems like a bad idea - afaict all answers except one are purely hypothetical/get us nowhere, Cult get ideas on who they can push/should avoid/can setup with future recruiting and the one 'true' answer is likely to be WIFOMed to the hilt?

TLDR Town get dead ends/nothing concrete, Cult get future ammo.

How does this help Town? / How is this acceptably different to putting cult strategy ideas on the table in depth D1?

Same question @Firebringer / anyone else pushing it today that I've missed.

becasue nobody has portrayed the answer i thought of yet or my actions. furthermore it allows an idea of if someone is to flip cult (and not CL) then we could look at who said what and go from there.

i know its WIFOM crap come the end of it but to avoid that is asking for the justifcation becasue CL is gonna most likely do one of 2 cases:

say who they legit converted and expalin it in truth

lie about it and will then have to make a fabricated reason on why that person and can lead to others questioing it and potentialy out it

[ika]

you also self answer the question with your own response on this because if they suddenly "change" their entire agenda to fit who should be pushed/not it would show form the previous days or the player would have to fabricate the reasons on why its now a set way of "fitting what works best for cult"

[Cass]

Blla so hard to get my brain working right now, but no - afaict it doesn't answer anything.

You're not asking who you think 'should be pushed/not it' and I don't understand

"because if they suddenly "change" their entire agenda to fit who should be pushed/not it would show form the previous days or the player would have to fabricate the reasons on why its now a set way of "fitting what works best for cult"

Just... no?

Walk me through it:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B
Player B was converted - that means_____
OR
Player B was not converted - that means _____

The next day:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B again - that means_______
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means _______

So much nothing! As far as I can tell. If I'm missing a step that you can break down in a similar fashion to prove how anything someone says there points to scum please show me how.


Imo though, if you're Town, forget hypotheticals. Conversions are cult night decisions. Hypothesising them from Town perspective is going to be as (in)effective at finding scum as postulating about NKs. Consider the possibilities, sure. But don't make it the primary focus.

Just hunt scum, same as D1, same as every game.

Look at what has actually happened/is possibly happening - in the thread.

Unless CL is going deeeeeep the goal for their team today is mislynch.

Find possible alliances/strategic shifts pushing/allowing Town reads/non-town agenda and dig into them. Encourage good communication and coherent Town play.

Have an open mind and reassess if you're going wrong somewhere when there are differences of opinion. Communicate your thoughts. We're the majority and have the advantage if we keep our heads.

Town should never die today.

If they wanna go deep enough to make it the opposite, Cult shoot themselves in the foot and we're one up tomorrow, and with one less conversion.

Aaaaaaaaaand that was not succinct at all.

Welcome to my post night-shift brain.

[ika]

i feel like your mising my point of this entire thing so im gonna adrsss the big thing on it and then quote that one secions i feel that should maybe clarify.

i am scum hunting. im looking for intent and motives and if someone is fabricating their reaosns.

ill adress the biggest thing i find that pretains to everything but i feel you are thinking im saying X where what im saying is Y

[Cass]

Ok, so FTR I still have yzb largely Town for overall D1 play.

But @yzb25 - How on Earth did you progress from reading SP strongly Town/Defending him to being second vote on the train?

Especially since it was started by your #1 scum read at the time - who is consistently your #1 scum read/WTL today?

And why was it particularly important to you that others jump on the SP train if you had him as a Town read?

[ika]

Just... no?

Walk me through it:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B
Player B was converted - that means_____
OR
Player B was not converted - that means _____

The next day:
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B again - that means_______
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means _______

the big diffrence in this is simple and is also pointless seeing how we never dicussed it day one so i will talk about the later with the correction


Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B - that means as town they are saying what they genuinly belive and will show as such and not be fabricated in the least. as CL if they stay true and flip cultist, we can look back at who said it and maybe use it as poe
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means that the cult leader is not only going to have to lie but fabricate the reason then and then if player X who he did convert fliped cult, it would edventaly lead to the eprson becasue ti could make sense of them to be the target

[Cass]

the big diffrence in this is simple and is also pointless seeing how we never dicussed it day one so i will talk about the later with the correction


Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player B - that means as town they are saying what they genuinly belive and will show as such and not be fabricated in the least. as CL if they stay true and flip cultist, we can look back at who said it and maybe use it as poe
OR
Player A said they would hypothetically have converted Player C instead of player B - that means that the cult leader is not only going to have to lie but fabricate the reason then and then if player X who he did convert fliped cult, it would edventaly lead to the eprson becasue ti could make sense of them to be the target

If I understand you correctly, your theory can be reworked to:

We get most information looking at who said what when a player flips cult recruit.
PoE will equal anyone who had that person as a choice for recruit, and anyone who didn't who seems dishonest.

I see this getting more convoluted/unreliable for every night a conversion can be added.
But honestly, I'm not a maths person and I've had no sleep so missing an extra step/something obvious is a possibility. I'll leave it to you/math people and move along.

Are yzb and Quick still your top choices for scum?
Who's more likely CL and why?


Do you have any new thoughts/reads wrt other player alignments?

[Cass]

I suppose it would be you then. You're consistent on everyone's townreads (except quick) and I know you are experienced enough to hide as scum, as well as potentially lead a mislynch, which is where yzb falls short. If his passive demeanor were to change hard it would be considered scummy.

You're a townread on everyone for... some reason, I guess. You'll basically be a free cult vote. Actually you'd be great as a late game cult recruit...

@Stealthbomber16

What leans/reads do you have on Ika and Mesk?

Imma flop between yzb, fb and gyrlander for a bit today

Yesterday you voted Stealth before FB pushed hard for the SP train; why had he dropped from your focus by this point today?

[ika]

If I understand you correctly, your theory can be reworked to:

We get most information looking at who said what when a player flips cult recruit.
PoE will equal anyone who had that person as a choice for recruit, and anyone who didn't who seems dishonest.

I see this getting more convoluted/unreliable for every night a conversion can be added.
But honestly, I'm not a maths person and I've had no sleep so missing an extra step/something obvious is a possibility. I'll leave it to you/math people and move along.

Are yzb and Quick still your top choices for scum?
Who's more likely CL and why?


Do you have any new thoughts/reads wrt other player alignments?

yes. the case has not changed form day 1. if you would like to make a case on the point son yzb to me go right ahead.

i can do a reread of the start of day tommorw im too tired to think stright about it right now to make full comprhensive lists

[Cass]

Ah, okey.

-vote Mesk514

Gyr,
What was your read of Yzb end of D1?
What made you switch to Mesk over everyone else for your final vote?

You had a couple of digs/FoSes at Yzb but hadn't mentioned Mesk at all prior to voting there?

[Cass]

yes. the case has not changed form day 1. if you would like to make a case on the point son yzb to me go right ahead.

i can do a reread of the start of day tommorw im too tired to think stright about it right now to make full comprhensive lists

Going off the top of my head here, but your case against Yzb was essentially that he:
- pushed an opportunistic lynch at Gyr, and then backtracked when he copped heat and pressure for it;
- voiced FoS at you for not discussing strategy;
- had hedgey reads?

Your case against Quick was that he defended Yzb/Didn't rebut the specific points you raised?


I think I already commented on this/agreeing with Quick's take on Yzb at the time.



I can see the possibility that Yzb is scum there, but otoh

- the 'PL' push at Gyr seemed actually to be more about trying to pressure him into action than actually lynching him, which makes it more null than scummy;

- Yzb specifically said after his 'Ika hasn't discussed strategy and that's strange' that he'd been wrong. I interpreted it as he i)noted something inconsistent from your usual play and forgot to consider how the current setup might require that difference; and ii)acknowledged that fact and moved on; This could be Scum backtracking, but I doubt scum pushes at anybody for not discussing best scum strategy in the first place, and revising illogical opinions when new information comes to light is as much an important part of avoiding tunnels as town as it is avoiding attention as scum;

- Hedgey reads could be a thing

- Yzb's tone and flow read pretty transparently


Imo Quick's take on yzb wasn't a problem.
The fact Quick gave you his opinion of events rather than systematically refuting your exact points doesn't make him scummy.


I'm not saying neither of them are scum.
But you KNOW that they can't both have been scum, so you were wrong on at least one and still have that potential today.
It's your job to recognise that and try and analyse who you may be wrong on and why /shrug

[Cass]

Town slip.
Mesk is town here.

-vote Ika

Given your Town read on Ika yesterday, has it changed, or does that mean today you're aiming for those you see as potential converts first?

Wouldn't it be better to continue hunting original scum?

[Cass]

Cass seemed blindingly Town at this point in the game.

What were you seeing and be articulate about it.

We don't know who was recruited last night so I am hunting for CL rereading the day since that should be priority. Also, Everyone hasn't checked in today so I don't want to try and see differences in play until we get everyone to post more.

Mesk saying they are going to get sunburnt when it is March is kinda ??? and her just not going to be here could make her difficult to sort. Not saying she has to be Scum, but it is just a big fat question mark to me overall.

What seemed blindingly Town about me that game, to you?

FTR I think both yzb and FB had understandable reasons to doubt me, for all they don't equal me being scum.

You being so certain of my alignment is disconcerting.

Agree with the strategy of hunting for CL on re-read.

[Cass]

I would have recruited SecondPassing... If he was Alive. (Second option is Meskerino)

First option (had they been alive) Town Read
Second option Scum Read

Doesn't seem to make much sense?


Why even mention SP here?

Why Mesk?

[Cass]

Everyone should post who they think is CL. Let's not have a repeat of yesterday.

This one was Mesk's:

My current take is that those who did least for Town D1 were

Mesk
Gyr

In one sense I'm paranoid I'm wrong about this because I have tinfoil on everyone else, and significant doubts that a solo scum actually plays scummy on D1 - but I'm not sure that's enough to overrule their play to here, and my biggest FoS is on them to start with.

Gyr's (lack of) content, his EZ reasons and tone strikes me as more generically scummy than Mesk.

I think I see hints of investment/hunting in Mesk's ISO, like she has reasons and thoughts but just flat out refuses to share them.

(I don't like the blatant refusal to stray from previous meta, as I feel it holds this game back and the motivation for that is always more beneficial for scum - regardless of whether it's driven by alignment or personal choice not to adapt style game to game).

Neither of their EoD contributions reassure me at all but I think I see more logic in Mesk's start to D2 than Gyr's.

I can't find anything that strikes me as genuine Town in Gyr ISO.

[v]Gyr[/v] for now.

I'd really appreciate links to some of Gyr's games in either alignment for comparison pls.

Or at least specific explanations from anybody with reasons to read him Town here.

[Cass]

Oooooorrrrr

-vote Gyrlander

[Cass]

Your question on mesk is stupid.

Mesk is town because she hasn't changed at all from yesterday, she quoted she didn't have feedback and I honestly think maybe she likely didn't read it, even if thats a bad assumption. Chances of her being cult leader is low and cultist is lower.

Ika I have no strong feelings on, he could easily be cultist right now. He isn't around this day much so far (activity is w/e but he definitely should talk about why he isn't).

Quick feels exactly same as yesterday and honestly if he was scum I expect him to make super bad pushes, which I haven't seen yet.

Gyrlander and Stealth aren't getting converted as far as I think. If you want to make an argument for them being the CL go ahead, but not interested in focusing them at all. Grylander anger at SP lynch seems townie enough too.

Your fine enough for me today.

Cass isn't here at all, she could be cultist, but I don't think she is Cultist leader as I have already said.


Should I just copy and paste my "one liners" so you get the comprehensive list?
I am mostly repeating myself in here and its annoying.

I can follow most of this fine, but disagree on

Mesk being the same as yesterday - she still has attitude, but she has more content and (so far) less narrow focus of direction.

She opened her day with a different vote, one that imo makes logical sense wrt conversion and also half formed tinfoil that I'm pushing back heavily myself right now. It's a far cry from stubbornly pushing your single lynch choice based on gaming the mod and a vote you put down before the suspect even posted.

Gyrlander anger/timing wrt SP lynch seems sus af to me.

What makes you think it's Townie?

[Cass]

Tbf, Cass/Quick would probably be at the top under normal circumstances, but converting you after that massive shitfling would just be an unmissable opportunity ^^

What would be fun about this for you, considering you two displayed large differences of opinion ITT, how would you work as a team?

[Cass]

I really liked how FB posted because it just seemed like a natural town response, much like your townread on me, or to a lesser extent, ika. The one post that I really didn't like yesterday was the one where he supposedly went back to the setup to check to see what PR he just claimed. The time between him posting his PR claim and him saying "there are no PRs" was about 3 minutes, and to me that seems natural. But that's just one post, it may not convince you all the way.

Overall its just kind of a gut feeling, and the way he lead the mislynch on secondpassing may have been a mislynch but it was done in a balls deep fashion that no cult leader would do. Unless he was converted last night I seriously doubt fire is cult.

As for lynch candidate, I propose gyrlander with a backup option of mesk being a possible cultist.

None of the claim seemed natural for me.

The difficulty is deciding whether it was scummy, or whether there's validity in it coming from a Town perspective.

FB didn't treat it like a serious reaction test as far as I can tell, and that somewhat reduces the chance it's Towny, unless it's a specific meta thing for him.

(halp)?

Both yourself and @yzb25 unvoted him after his claim and that series of posts, and I still don't understand why.

Also, can you explain the contradiction with the bold 'the one post I really didn't like... .seemed natural' ?

[Cass]

Back to work I go.

hi Ho

I'll pop in if I can, otherwise see you all after I get home tomorrow. Extended day means I won't make actual EoD, but I should be around for a few hours at least before/in the lead up.

[Gyrlander]

Yesterday I thought that my tone when I was town was incredible townie but now you vote me lmao

Anyway, you mentioned probably the two people that have the smallest content, while it is somehow a valid way of finding Bad people I think you should try to find people who are scummy no matter their contribution ;)))!););) O lbl

[Stealthbomber16]

@Stealthbomber16

What leans/reads do you have on Ika and Mesk?




Yesterday you voted Stealth before FB pushed hard for the SP train; why had he dropped from your focus by this point today?

Ika is town, Mesk is null leaning town now that she's participating in the conversation.

Yesterday I thought that my tone when I was town was incredible townie but now you vote me lmao

Anyway, you mentioned probably the two people that have the smallest content, while it is somehow a valid way of finding Bad people I think you should try to find people who are scummy no matter their contribution ;)))!););) O lbl

I do think she has quite the valid case against you, and if your rebuttal is going to be that she should look toward people who have contributed more then you've earned yourself a vote.

-vote Gyrlander

[Stealthbomber16]

Full reads list at this point in the game
Me
ika
yzb
firebringer
cass
mesk
quick
gyrlander
At this point I want a quick or gyrlander lynch and a mesk lynch would be alright, but I won't actively push it.

[Quick]

I feel good about Cass. Don't see any change from D1 to D2.

I don't feel bad about Gyr. Seems like typical Town!Gyr to me.

IDK why SB thinks I am Scummy, which is concerning.

Ika is just really Meh and I expect decent content from him and I am not seeing it here. Top pick atm.

Fire is hard for me to read in general, could go either way.

yzb hasn't put out the solid performance we saw from him D1, maybe? Still leaning Town though.

And Mesk is just plain not here.

[ika]

Going off the top of my head here, but your case against Yzb was essentially that he:
- pushed an opportunistic lynch at Gyr, and then backtracked when he copped heat and pressure for it;
- voiced FoS at you for not discussing strategy;
- had hedgey reads?

i would have to find it myself as well but form what i can recall was the backtracking and his pro-cult ideas/posting and then trying to say he didnt know setup.

Your case against Quick was that he defended Yzb/Didn't rebut the specific points you raised?


I think I already commented on this/agreeing with Quick's take on Yzb at the time.

can you relink it. agreeing isnt really refuting anything

I can see the possibility that Yzb is scum there, but otoh

- the 'PL' push at Gyr seemed actually to be more about trying to pressure him into action than actually lynching him, which makes it more null than scummy;
then by definition ist not a PL, PL is when you have an intent to lynch someone outside of alignemnt. however based on his posting it seemed like he town read gry so i find it scummy that hes trying to push a PL in a cult based game. as i said earlier, any other edge case (where cult is not here) i would agree its null at best.

- Yzb specifically said after his 'Ika hasn't discussed strategy and that's strange' that he'd been wrong. I interpreted it as he i)noted something inconsistent from your usual play and forgot to consider how the current setup might require that difference; and ii)acknowledged that fact and moved on; This could be Scum backtracking, but I doubt scum pushes at anybody for not discussing best scum strategy in the first place, and revising illogical opinions when new information comes to light is as much an important part of avoiding tunnels as town as it is avoiding attention as scum;
the former i could agree to if he pushed me further, what i dislike is he jsut gina threw his arms up and went "oh ya im worng forget it" like in empire (he was scum fyi) he did the same thign with sw. I would of expected yzb to at least maybe use it as a talking point to maybe have an interaction and have a followup of like "will you share later" or somethign of the sort.
- Hedgey reads could be a thing

- Yzb's tone and flow read pretty transparently
this is where i invoke that on day 1 its moot point to an extent in the sense that FMPOV that a CL can fake their town meta becasue they know they are only scum

Imo Quick's take on yzb wasn't a problem.
The fact Quick gave you his opinion of events rather than systematically refuting your exact points doesn't make him scummy.
i find it scummy when he basicly ignores the points being made and instead jsut decides to call me scum off it.

I'm not saying neither of them are scum.
But you KNOW that they can't both have been scum, so you were wrong on at least one and still have that potential today.
It's your job to recognise that and try and analyse who you may be wrong on and why /shrug

i know both cant be CL and thats my damn problem. i know one of them are/were town but both of their day 1 plays were so terrible.

i mean if i go with occom razor in MPOV it would be easier to conclude that quick is CL who defended yzb becasue he knows hes town and that yzb is just dumb in the fact he didnt read setup.

[Mesk514]

-vote gyrlander

[Mesk514]

Yes I'm kind on vacay...... sorry

[ika]

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ika*

i am le sad

[yzb25]

This is not good yzb content. This is shit from you. It feels like you are different this day. Less wanting to make wall posts for God knows what reason and now this extremely reachy post.

IDK your Scum game, but in this post I can see the angle that you are trying to say more than you really are. Null it is then.

I think I get this now. If I try to downplay the full extent of my bias / opinions and try to be more roundabout with my conclusions, it makes me look like some sleezy politican who's being fillery / making non-points and throwing out empty, reaching theories.

I'll be more direct then.

Spoiler : here, scroll through this again :

Lynch Secondpassing now. Or I will use large font for the rest of this game you newbs.

This is not a drill.
You are going to vote Secondpassing.
He is not a townread of anyone.

We are voting Secondpassing.

Stop being a shitlord.
Vote secondpassing.

Hey you idiot.
Vote Secondpassing or you won't get dinner.

Did you think he had this ridiculous outburst because he got a sudden drive to be town leader? Because he desperately wanted to get his TOWNREAD lynched? (He clearly did not believe SP would flip CL)

For fuck's sake - FB has rolled scum over and over since fucking October and lost over and over. His reputation of being a legendary sheriff jailor has been dragged through the mud. In the signups alone he was still acting salty about losing the last scumgame.

If he'd rolled town in a "trash MZ setup", do you think he'd give a fuck about my scumread? Obviously noone was voting with me and obviously I'd never lead a lynch. He'd just think "lol tinfoil yzb is off on one again".

No. He didn't find me threatening at all. But getting scumread on d1 as scum yet again is clearly a triggering slap in the face after getting shit scum games over and over. This is why he had the SP-vote-outburst.

Don't get me wrong, 10 minutes before EOD I switched to my light town read SP because there were only 5 people on and it was the only feasible lynch - in a setup like this, any lynch is good because even a lynch on a townread eliminates a guess. Some utilitarian "ends justify the means" shit is nothing like FB's outburst tho.

And you dickheads give this plus points because "hurrdurr scum would never want to put himself in the spotlight", "hurrdurr his tone is so towny".

I have played more scumgames with FB than all of you. I have watched him lead mislynches over and over as scum, I've watched him give you your cheap towntone reads as scum. In fact (LOL) - I've even pushed him and got shut down by him as scum. I'm not reaching by acknowledging the skills he has demonstrated over and over.

That's not all, either.

How he's handled his Mesk read has been scummy AF. Mesk is a very significant read because (unless you take the trash townslips seriously) you have no way of reading her but relying on your instinct. But obviously if you're informed you can't draw up any natural instinct.

This is why he's cagey as fuck about his trashy Mesk read. He gave her a free pass on day 1 but apparently found her scummy on day 2 because of making this post:

Imma flop between yzb, fb and gyrlander for a bit today

He said it was scummy because Mesk was being lazy. Lazy?! Wtf?! SRing her for being lazy not only makes no sense from a meta angle, but she HAS CLEARLY BEEN LAZY ALL FUCKING GAME, YET HE HAD TOWNREAD HER ALL FUCKING GAME.

His read on Mesk is completely fucking fake. People were paranoid her tone had changed at d2start so he coasted off that, then switched off because Mesk is clearly an impossible mislynch.

(FYI, He could not have been one of the paranoid people, because he said he toneread her as town.)

And this is all without acknowledging the shitty supposed "townslip" she made, and the question dodging and shitty probing on day 1 that looked like he was looking for a mislynch.

But w/e, the insight of the guy who's sweated out this game harder than everyone else probably holds no weight. Follow up your shitty run-of-the-mill SP mislynch with a shitty run-of-the-mill Gyr mislynch, then DB can consign this to the other 50 "games town lost for being lurking trash".

Or we could vote the Cult Leader? Maybe?

[yzb25]

I think I get this now. If I try to downplay the full extent of my bias / opinions and try to be more roundabout with my conclusions, it makes me look like some sleezy politican who's being fillery / making non-points and throwing out empty, reaching theories.

I'll be more direct then.

Spoiler : here, scroll through this again :

Did you think he had this ridiculous outburst because he got a sudden drive to be town leader? Because he desperately wanted to get his TOWNREAD lynched? (He clearly did not believe SP would flip CL)

For fuck's sake - FB has rolled scum over and over since fucking October and lost over and over. His reputation of being a legendary sheriff jailor has been dragged through the mud. In the signups alone he was still acting salty about losing the last scumgame.

If he'd rolled town in a "trash MZ setup", do you think he'd give a fuck about my scumread? Obviously noone was voting with me and obviously I'd never lead a lynch. He'd just think "lol tinfoil yzb is off on one again".

No. He didn't find me threatening at all. But getting scumread on d1 as scum yet again is clearly a triggering slap in the face after getting shit scum games over and over. This is why he had the SP-vote-outburst.

Don't get me wrong, 10 minutes before EOD I switched to my light town read SP because there were only 5 people on and it was the only feasible lynch - in a setup like this, any lynch is good because even a lynch on a townread eliminates a guess. Some utilitarian "ends justify the means" shit is nothing like FB's outburst tho.

And you dickheads give this plus points because "hurrdurr scum would never want to put himself in the spotlight", "hurrdurr his tone is so towny".

I have played more scumgames with FB than all of you. I have watched him lead mislynches over and over as scum, I've watched him give you your cheap towntone reads as scum. In fact (LOL) - I've even pushed him and got shut down by him as scum. I'm not reaching by acknowledging the skills he has demonstrated over and over.

That's not all, either.

How he's handled his Mesk read has been scummy AF. Mesk is a very significant read because (unless you take the trash townslips seriously) you have no way of reading her but relying on your instinct. But obviously if you're informed you can't draw up any natural instinct.

This is why he's cagey as fuck about his trashy Mesk read. He gave her a free pass on day 1 but apparently found her scummy on day 2 because of making this post:



He said it was scummy because Mesk was being lazy. Lazy?! Wtf?! SRing her for being lazy not only makes no sense from a meta angle, but she HAS CLEARLY BEEN LAZY ALL FUCKING GAME, YET HE HAD TOWNREAD HER ALL FUCKING GAME.

His read on Mesk is completely fucking fake. People were paranoid her tone had changed at d2start so he coasted off that, then switched off because Mesk is clearly an impossible mislynch.

(FYI, He could not have been one of the paranoid people, because he said he toneread her as town.)

And this is all without acknowledging the shitty supposed "townslip" she made, and the question dodging and shitty probing on day 1 that looked like he was looking for a mislynch.

But w/e, the insight of the guy who's sweated out this game harder than everyone else probably holds no weight. Follow up your shitty run-of-the-mill SP mislynch with a shitty run-of-the-mill Gyr mislynch, then DB can consign this to the other 50 "games town lost for being lurking trash".

Or we could vote the Cult Leader? Maybe?

"This is why Mesk was being cagey AF" should be a separate paragraph because it's a separate point.

"he said he toneread her as town at day2start." <--- shoulda added that.

Excuse my obsessiveness.

[Stealthbomber16]

I'd really appreciate links to some of Gyr's games in either alignment for comparison pls.

Or at least specific explanations from anybody with reasons to read him Town here.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...221-Death-Note

This was my re-introductory game and I believe my first game with Gyr, this being my second.

[Gyrlander]

LMAO. Same as I said the last post. I thought my posts this game felt like town miles afar and now I'm the most voted wagon? Okey, I must accept I'm not doing much this game appart from defending myself and casting some votes. It's that I just found out that Cultist games make me go OH DAAAAAEEEMNNNN.

And well, stealth, just voting me because I critizised Cass reason to vote me in a way you didn't like is quite lame, don't you think?

Damn, if I die right now I won't be able to win! Plz let me get converted first and then I'll tell you when you guys can lynch me <3

[Mesk514]

I'm not being lazy. I apologize. I didn't anticipate doing so much touristic things. Right about now I would give a lengthy opinion sadly I cannot at the moment. If I make it to tomorrow I will definitely be %100 active.

[Gyrlander]

I think I get this now. If I try to downplay the full extent of my bias / opinions and try to be more roundabout with my conclusions, it makes me look like some sleezy politican who's being fillery / making non-points and throwing out empty, reaching theories.

I'll be more direct then.

Spoiler : here, scroll through this again :

Did you think he had this ridiculous outburst because he got a sudden drive to be town leader? Because he desperately wanted to get his TOWNREAD lynched? (He clearly did not believe SP would flip CL)

For fuck's sake - FB has rolled scum over and over since fucking October and lost over and over. His reputation of being a legendary sheriff jailor has been dragged through the mud. In the signups alone he was still acting salty about losing the last scumgame.

If he'd rolled town in a "trash MZ setup", do you think he'd give a fuck about my scumread? Obviously noone was voting with me and obviously I'd never lead a lynch. He'd just think "lol tinfoil yzb is off on one again".

No. He didn't find me threatening at all. But getting scumread on d1 as scum yet again is clearly a triggering slap in the face after getting shit scum games over and over. This is why he had the SP-vote-outburst.

Don't get me wrong, 10 minutes before EOD I switched to my light town read SP because there were only 5 people on and it was the only feasible lynch - in a setup like this, any lynch is good because even a lynch on a townread eliminates a guess. Some utilitarian "ends justify the means" shit is nothing like FB's outburst tho.

And you dickheads give this plus points because "hurrdurr scum would never want to put himself in the spotlight", "hurrdurr his tone is so towny".

I have played more scumgames with FB than all of you. I have watched him lead mislynches over and over as scum, I've watched him give you your cheap towntone reads as scum. In fact (LOL) - I've even pushed him and got shut down by him as scum. I'm not reaching by acknowledging the skills he has demonstrated over and over.

That's not all, either.

How he's handled his Mesk read has been scummy AF. Mesk is a very significant read because (unless you take the trash townslips seriously) you have no way of reading her but relying on your instinct. But obviously if you're informed you can't draw up any natural instinct.

This is why he's cagey as fuck about his trashy Mesk read. He gave her a free pass on day 1 but apparently found her scummy on day 2 because of making this post:



He said it was scummy because Mesk was being lazy. Lazy?! Wtf?! SRing her for being lazy not only makes no sense from a meta angle, but she HAS CLEARLY BEEN LAZY ALL FUCKING GAME, YET HE HAD TOWNREAD HER ALL FUCKING GAME.

His read on Mesk is completely fucking fake. People were paranoid her tone had changed at d2start so he coasted off that, then switched off because Mesk is clearly an impossible mislynch.

(FYI, He could not have been one of the paranoid people, because he said he toneread her as town.)

And this is all without acknowledging the shitty supposed "townslip" she made, and the question dodging and shitty probing on day 1 that looked like he was looking for a mislynch.

But w/e, the insight of the guy who's sweated out this game harder than everyone else probably holds no weight. Follow up your shitty run-of-the-mill SP mislynch with a shitty run-of-the-mill Gyr mislynch, then DB can consign this to the other 50 "games town lost for being lurking trash".

Or we could vote the Cult Leader? Maybe?

OMG, just kidding, you're my first option to convert.

-vote Firebringer

And I'm partially doing this to try saving my ass.

[Gyrlander]

I'm not being lazy. I apologize. I didn't anticipate doing so much touristic things. Right about now I would give a lengthy opinion sadly I cannot at the moment. If I make it to tomorrow I will definitely be %100 active.

Don't worry, by tomorrow I won't be alive so your "lengthy opinion" will be forgotten and you will go happily around the world once more.

[Quick]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...221-Death-Note

This was my re-introductory game and I believe my first game with Gyr, this being my second.

Why am I your #2 to lynch?

[yzb25]

-vote Firebringer

Summary of main points:

1) Mesk read looks informed.

2) EOD1 outburst looks like scum!Firebringer getting triggered by traumatic past of scum losses.

If these points feel unsubstantiated, it's probably because you didn't read the massive fucking wallpost 5 posts above this.

[Quick]

I feel better about yzb now.

[yzb25]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...221-Death-Note

This was my re-introductory game and I believe my first game with Gyr, this being my second.

You're voting Gyr based on:

1) A town meta he doesn't actually have. In most games he plays very passive/quietly throughout the whole game.
2) His lack of contribution. There is absolutely no correlation between contribution-levels and scummyness, and the droves of towns who get mislynched stand as testimony.