S-FM 352: ★ Silent Night 2 ★

[Marshmallow Marshall]

yeah

Explanations would be welcome

you're digging a hole for yourself with this. Carol has at least 1 nontown, but not max 1. You can still be scum

I am aware, but since the carol can no longer be a reason to scumread me from your perspective (it just means nothing at all now), I am asking you what other reason you have to scumread me


It's like everything made a lot of sense two pages ago, and now everyone's lost their mind and is running amok like very angry headless chicken.

[powerofdeath]

for the same reason i do, everything feels theatrical
but again im just voting DM here till he full claims

you havent voted yet.

Also DM’s vote on MM didnt count, need to use full name @Dark Magician

[Stellaria]

WHAT

Are you literally saying you're going to vote me over THE LITERAL THIRD PARTY SCUM CLAIM (because notice he's claiming that there are probably only two mafia lol, implying he's replacing the third one)

WHAT WHAT WHAT

Have you read the walls of page 39 (50 posts per page)? Thoughts? Explain them, please. You've gone away for quite a long time and then just come back with this, which is frankly silly lol

Explanations would be welcome


I am aware, but since the carol can no longer be a reason to scumread me from your perspective (it just means nothing at all now), I am asking you what other reason you have to scumread me


It's like everything made a lot of sense two pages ago, and now everyone's lost their mind and is running amok like very angry headless chicken.

You're still individually scummy (your weird defense of Kuti comes to mind) you have potential equity with some other players (besides Arrow, PoD comes to mind) and at least one of the players who died (Deb) just so happened to essentially promise to campaign for your doom before he died. Also also, whether intentional or not, it looks like you're hiding behind the carol.

[macdougall]

has Marshall full claimed?

[Stellaria]

to my understanding, no

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You're still individually scummy (your weird defense of Kuti comes to mind) you have potential equity with some other players (besides Arrow, PoD comes to mind) and at least one of the players who died (Deb) just so happened to essentially promise to campaign for your doom before he died. Also also, whether intentional or not, it looks like you're hiding behind the carol.

I guess I can see how you could view me with PoD, but I'd be very curious to know what other scum you'd put me with lol. (I'm not sure I understood correctly, whether you are saying I'm Arrow's scummate or not, but since I just don't see how that would make sense, I'm assuming that's not what you're saying.)

As for my defense of Kuti:
- I was right (and if you're thinking "but you thus had TMI!!!", read the rest)
- scum!me has zero interest in whiteknighting kuti instead of just letting them die
- even if scum!me had decided to do that for some reason, it was easy to just backtrack when it was clear I was not getting any townreads for it (on the contrary) instead of remaining on my position
- I already explained that I simply wasn't seeing them as scummy (WHICH IS NOT A SIN), and then saw everybody pile on them with no resistance whatsoever, which is indicative of a townie getting lynched

As for the carol, sorry, not sorry: it's a core element of the game, and I'm not ashamed of considering as such; you're free to do as you wish on that matter, of course, but it makes no sense to just disregard it lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

has Marshall full claimed?

No, I haven't felt the need to do so, since I have nothing of importance to say for town, so giving info to scum to help them plan the kill isn't exactly my plan. Do you wish me to claim or something?

[Ultra]

uhhhh fashionably late

who we hittin

[Marshmallow Marshall]

uhhhh fashionably late

who we hittin

Hi. You're confirmed town as per Martin's peek from the grave. There are several walls explaining worldbuilding on page 39 (50 posts per page; if you don't have that yet, go fix it in settings, it's a blessing lol). DM is basically claiming third party scum and enjoining us to vote "group scum" instead (yes, ???).

[Wiisp]

you havent voted yet.

Also DM’s vote on MM didnt count, need to use full name @Dark Magician

ya well majority end is activated, im explaining my intentions

[Wiisp]

It was never about tmi, I mean if i think you are a wolf, i will think u had TMI there, but I never hated you for liking Sabi, your explanations were fine once they got going, what I hated was you shading the thread state, and your tone just makes so many of your posts feel fake to me
but also, its not mylo/lylo yet i presume, and im not really going to win as town if ur alive with me, if we are both town, so it makes my vote a bit easier to place

I also kinda think if u were town, you'd be dead by now
and Im pretty sure DM had many notably sizeable wagons on them day 1, which is a sign in their favor of at least being uninformed

[Wiisp]

DM has his own problems for what its worth, I think 80% of their posts are outright wolfy, but I still think they feel uninformed, but also not really townie, its weird
the way they went about claiming was still super wolfy, like probably one of the wolfiest posts in this entire game
them wanting to die now, for the "thread state" is very silly, since I dont really believe town is winning this lylo/mylo
so if they are town, that is just bad, and if they are a wolf, its the kinda ATE I expect

so ya the conundrum here is, "who is wolfier", and personally if i could shoot u both, I would
if u are both town, we lost to DK playing that carousel extremely well as a wolf
or rng wasnt on our side, and we lost to a wolf, they got a list of 3 names with a 3p in it

[Wiisp]

whoever doesnt full claim gets lynched, honestly

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It was never about tmi, I mean if i think you are a wolf, i will think u had TMI there, but I never hated you for liking Sabi, your explanations were fine once they got going, what I hated was you shading the thread state, and your tone just makes so many of your posts feel fake to me
but also, its not mylo/lylo yet i presume, and im not really going to win as town if ur alive with me, if we are both town, so it makes my vote a bit easier to place

I also kinda think if u were town, you'd be dead by now
and Im pretty sure DM had many notably sizeable wagons on them day 1, which is a sign in their favor of at least being uninformed

"shading the thread state" - what? If you mean disagreeing with the thread consensus and voicing it, hey, I plead guilty! Because that.... isn't scummy?
"tone feels fake" - no u (there's nothing else to answer to that lol, and it's a very weak accusation at this point of the game)

"if you were town, you'd be dead by now" - uh what? Why? In what world does mafia ever kill me when people are willing to just lynch me instead? And if you mean I'd have been lynched, Banana and Kuti were taking all the room and you know it

DM had a wagon that noticeably vanished into thin air on D1, yes - and you were part of how it vanished lol.


Also, for the record - in the off-chance DM is actually telling the truth and is somehow a third party scum, I will have to reevaluate you. But we're absolutely not there atm.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

whoever doesnt full claim gets lynched, honestly

Sure. I'm just a vanilla patron lol, don't think this is going to surprise anybody

color to attract your attention to the post containing a claim

[Ultra]

-vote Dark Magician

[Marshmallow Marshall]

DM has his own problems for what its worth, I think 80% of their posts are outright wolfy, but I still think they feel uninformed, but also not really townie, its weird
the way they went about claiming was still super wolfy, like probably one of the wolfiest posts in this entire game
them wanting to die now, for the "thread state" is very silly, since I dont really believe town is winning this lylo/mylo
so if they are town, that is just bad, and if they are a wolf, its the kinda ATE I expect

so ya the conundrum here is, "who is wolfier", and personally if i could shoot u both, I would
if u are both town, we lost to DK playing that carousel extremely well as a wolf
or rng wasnt on our side, and we lost to a wolf, they got a list of 3 names with a 3p in it

I think Ikarus is towny even independently from the carol, so I'm not too worried about it. And besides, just accepting to lose to scum!Ikarus makes my life much easier, considering it removes many weird possibilities at the cost of a not too big chance of just being doomed (and we'd probably be doomed anyway lol).

[Wiisp]

Sure. I'm just a vanilla patron lol, don't think this is going to surprise anybody

color to attract your attention to the post containing a claim

k, i should probably get this out there now as well

I know my original post said mafia or PR, ya, Im just a vanilla town :3
before it somehow bites me in the ass

[Wiisp]

part of me thinks town is just losing this game regardless

[Stellaria]

I guess I can see how you could view me with PoD, but I'd be very curious to know what other scum you'd put me with lol. (I'm not sure I understood correctly, whether you are saying I'm Arrow's scummate or not, but since I just don't see how that would make sense, I'm assuming that's not what you're saying.)

As for my defense of Kuti:
- I was right (and if you're thinking "but you thus had TMI!!!", read the rest)
- scum!me has zero interest in whiteknighting kuti instead of just letting them die
- even if scum!me had decided to do that for some reason, it was easy to just backtrack when it was clear I was not getting any townreads for it (on the contrary) instead of remaining on my position
- I already explained that I simply wasn't seeing them as scummy (WHICH IS NOT A SIN), and then saw everybody pile on them with no resistance whatsoever, which is indicative of a townie getting lynched

As for the carol, sorry, not sorry: it's a core element of the game, and I'm not ashamed of considering as such; you're free to do as you wish on that matter, of course, but it makes no sense to just disregard it lol.

fmpov: Dark Magician is lock scum, but uninformed about his teammates. That leaves two other scum mates. I'm saying you + PoD or you + Arrow fits.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ngl, Wisp is much more towny now than before, and it surprises me quite a lot

The problem is, if Wisp isn't scum, then who is? PoD? Or, Heaven forbid, Mac? I don't see Stellaria as scum here, like, ever, and Ultra is confirmed town. Something just feels off, tbh.

[powerofdeath]

is everyone mass claiming today? I’m sure it doesnt matter anymore since roles are NAI, and mafia is most likely killing either Ultra or me if they fear my medium powers(if DM flip scum) Wouldnt surprise me if I’m last PR for town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

fmpov: Dark Magician is lock scum, but uninformed about his teammates. That leaves two other scum mates. I'm saying you + PoD or you + Arrow fits.

Okay, then I guess the flip will tell us more. If you're somehow right about DM and DM is somehow telling the truth for a reason I cannot fathom, I will reevaluate my world, that's a promise. However, you should also be reevaluating completely if DM is actually just normal scum.

Not sure how you can think me and Arrow can be scum together. PoD + me does seem to fit from your point of view if you think me scum, though.

[Stellaria]

Arrow is a one-size-fits-all. He can fit on any scum team. He's given me nothing to read. It's honestly really frustrating and part of why I wish he would just swap out

[Wiisp]

fmpov: Dark Magician is lock scum, but uninformed about his teammates. That leaves two other scum mates. I'm saying you + PoD or you + Arrow fits.

not possible unless u believe DK is lying
MM can not be with DM
not to mention, Marsh's play around DM would make no sense as partners, defend Kuti, push DM? i mean if this is their wolf game, they certainly can and have pushed town, so why at that point go out of ur wait to defend a town which could easily lead to your partner getting kicked off the island

[Stellaria]

not possible unless u believe DK is lying
MM can not be with DM
not to mention, Marsh's play around DM would make no sense as partners, defend Kuti, push DM? i mean if this is their wolf game, they certainly can and have pushed town, so why at that point go out of ur wait to defend a town which could easily lead to your partner getting kicked off the island

why can't MM be with DM?

[Arrow]

I think at this point everyone has me locked in as a scumread and swapping out would make no difference. I should've done it back on Monday when I got the news.

[Stellaria]

it'll make a huge difference Arrow because the new person will give us something to read

[Stellaria]

no offense

[Arrow]

None taken.

[Stellaria]

can you at least comment on the current gamestate? I'm dying for something from you

[Arrow]

I'm trying to figure out why we switched to DM from MM right now, and why Ikarus isn't being considered. I get Achro gets his wincon from killing MM, but MM seems scummy as hell to me.

PoD seems town. Mac and Ultra just seem to be piling on wherever they can.

[powerofdeath]

I'm trying to figure out why we switched to DM from MM right now, and why Ikarus isn't being considered. I get Achro gets his wincon from killing MM, but MM seems scummy as hell to me.

PoD seems town. Mac and Ultra just seem to be piling on wherever they can.

my advice for someone new is be more aggressive and less passive. who cares if youre new or wrong about your reads, go for it. its fastest way to grow tbh

[Wiisp]

I'm trying to figure out why we switched to DM from MM right now, and why Ikarus isn't being considered. I get Achro gets his wincon from killing MM, but MM seems scummy as hell to me.

PoD seems town. Mac and Ultra just seem to be piling on wherever they can.

who is we? i feel like the collective group was never voing MM here
why do people keep shading DK like his...

why do u want MM over DM?

Mac/Ultra piling on whoever they can, is a lie, or at least a very shallow way of looking at their votes

[ikarusdk]

DM is the wolf in the carol.

DN shading me after Kuti flip means he doesn't want MM to be lynched today. He has clearly shown that he does not have a preference who we lynch between me and MM.

As I described before, this results in two mislynches (because i know it will if you lynch me) in succession, leading to a mafia win.

Whereas MM is clear in his conviction, that DM is the mafia here. He knows if DM flips green, he is next. This does not result in lylo or clear mafia winning.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say T!DM believes that I am wolf and that I had faked the carol. He is willing to RISK that I am fake, rather than RISK that I am right. I am townread by two of the most skeptical-about-ika players (Martin and Debs) also DM himself townread me on day 1. Our day 2 interaction simply shouldn't guarantee DMs stance about me, and his willingness to disbelieve MM is the wolf here, does not make sense.

[ikarusdk]

Also if DM has thought MM was wolf all game, he should still be pushing for MM regardless of carol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Arrow is a one-size-fits-all. He can fit on any scum team. He's given me nothing to read. It's honestly really frustrating and part of why I wish he would just swap out

it'll make a huge difference Arrow because the new person will give us something to read

no offense

Alignments aside (you're very probably town anyway), I think you're being very rude here, even though you don't seem to intend to be. Arrow isn't AFK, he's there. He can explain his reads (and hopefully spew his teammates for us in the meantime lol). New/rusty players shouldn't be driven out because "they're hard to read" - which isn't even true, because he's not hard to read, he's pretty obviously scum xD (see my case on him, p. 39). Everyone has been new at some point, and he's far from the worst (especially considering that just the fact he existed is already good).

Note that my goal isn't to guilt trip you or anything, just to make you realize you shouldn't do that to people :P

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm trying to figure out why we switched to DM from MM right now, and why Ikarus isn't being considered. I get Achro gets his wincon from killing MM, but MM seems scummy as hell to me.

PoD seems town. Mac and Ultra just seem to be piling on wherever they can.

Can you detail what is going through your head, i.e. the REASONS that led you to those conclusions? You've been stating your reads as facts throughout the game without walking us through your reasonings, which is kinda normal assuming you're scum, but it kills your chances of convincing us of anything, so you ought to fake a progression, at least.

Like, I don't know why think PoD is town, or why you think I'm scum.

Oh also, Ultra is mechanically confirmed town, in case you missed that lol. Martin's town peek from the grave landed on him.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, it's like Wisp switched from ScumOS to TownOS today. Am I the only one feeling that way lol? Like, he feels much more "real" now than before, almost like he's playing a different game.

[Stellaria]

Also if DM has thought MM was wolf all game, he should still be pushing for MM regardless of carol.

good point, maybe that's why he didn't want to bother pushing for MM

[Stellaria]

Alignments aside (you're very probably town anyway), I think you're being very rude here, even though you don't seem to intend to be. Arrow isn't AFK, he's there. He can explain his reads (and hopefully spew his teammates for us in the meantime lol). New/rusty players shouldn't be driven out because "they're hard to read" - which isn't even true, because he's not hard to read, he's pretty obviously scum xD (see my case on him, p. 39). Everyone has been new at some point, and he's far from the worst (especially considering that just the fact he existed is already good).

Note that my goal isn't to guilt trip you or anything, just to make you realize you shouldn't do that to people :P

Sorry @Arrow I did not mean it like this at all

[ikarusdk]

@macdougall @Achro @Arrow

I suggest you read the walls on page 39 to get more context.

And @Stellaria if you want to figure out MM all you have to do is look into their interaction and see if there could be anything. Personally I don't think so

[Wiisp]

@macdougall @Achro @Arrow

I suggest you read the walls on page 39 to get more context.

And @Stellaria if you want to figure out MM all you have to do is look into their interaction and see if there could be anything. Personally I don't think so

ur not gunna change mac's mind, and Achro is going to vote for his wincon
and there is a decent chance arrow is just a wolf
@Marshmallow Marshall
thats usually got it goes for my town game, my wolf game is usually townier because im actually paying attention to what I say

[macdougall]

I'm trying to figure out why we switched to DM from MM right now, and why Ikarus isn't being considered. I get Achro gets his wincon from killing MM, but MM seems scummy as hell to me.

PoD seems town. Mac and Ultra just seem to be piling on wherever they can.

What am I piling on exactly?

[macdougall]

So when I was showering I was thinking to myself.

If we flip MM and he flips town, we have at least a confirmed wolf at limlo. It also sorts out any Achromatic is full of crap worlds which is pretty good.

If we flip DM and he flips lost wolf or 3p or whatever, we don't really have MM solved and Achro remains around, we are unfortunately in a bit of a kingmaker situation with Achro.

If we flip MM and Achro doesn't exit the game then we at least know he's been a big fat liar?

[macdougall]

The idea that DM is like, not a pack mafia but some sort of mafia siding alternative medium is kinda believable in a way?

[macdougall]

I dunno I could just be being a dumbass. I must admit my wim took a fair hit when Kuti flipped town and was revealed to have fake claimed on day 1 for no real reason lol.

[Achro]

That is true. Killing mm gets rid of me which opens a lot of avenues going forward. But also I am not that picky as long as eventually I get a second marked player killed.

[ikarusdk]

That is true. Killing mm gets rid of me which opens a lot of avenues going forward. But also I am not that picky as long as eventually I get a second marked player killed.

Why not mark arrow then tonight.

Then you meet your wincon tomorrow

[powerofdeath]

isnt your other wincon to let ika live til day 5?