Epilogue

**FM Town of Salem** · August 12th, 2014, 05:13 PM

more post to come as i read though

@clem+mathblade, i am not pissed at all, you 2 still need to learn i have a diffrent mindset as neutral.

@math: you scum meta is kinda obvious to me now ;)

also for why i outed day 2 and gambited like hell was because of

rule of asquistion number 62:
The riskier the road, the greater the profit.

**FM Town of Salem** · August 12th, 2014, 05:17 PM

@clem the reason i shafted red is maf is due to how mathblade approached me on outing me. if she decided to try to play it off better and not tunnel me like she did i might of been mor einclined to help.

plus i know your deep hated for neutrals so i had to get thigns ready

**FM Town of Salem** · August 12th, 2014, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

Ferengi put a bounty on Red is mafia for pissing him off. LOL.

Never cross the money guy.

^that, never tempt me when im in power, i will be quick to backstab you

**deathworlds** · August 12th, 2014, 05:30 PM

I was the only Mafia to actually kill someone...

I should get an award for that.

**FM Town of Salem** · August 12th, 2014, 05:54 PM

n3 of vonnax maf chat is funny.

i pegged the scum team based of affilations and easy scumtells by any scum (neutral hunting)

**AppleyNO** · August 12th, 2014, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by deathworlds

What would of happened when Borg Quenn died?

There was no Borg Queen.....

However, Yayap did say N3 to me that FM Game Master is the Borg Queen, has 9,999 HP, and the game ends if we die.

>.>

**Gerik** · August 12th, 2014, 07:46 PM

I see that you marked me as "modkilled" even though I requested to be replaced. So be it.

Originally Posted by AppleyNO

because we wanted roles to be able to act without fear of being immediately found out.[/COLOR]

You say that, but then you made the role of "master" (my role) detectable in every single thing it did...

I have more thoughts on this game which I will post later.

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 07:50 PM

@ika

You should offer them special deals for creating stuff, which allows you to copy and sell. If not they will just save their charges and do nothing.

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by FM Game Master

Yayap points to FM-X (most complex FM before this one) & FM16 (where everyone complained about simplicity). Argument invalid... I was checking on the users online activity, the FMs complexity was not the main issue, its that the site is dead.

I do agree that this game is more complicated. But apparently although it is complicated, nobody bothered to discuss about it, or keep track of the complicated information.

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

@ika

You should offer them special deals for creating stuff, which allows you to copy and sell. If not they will just save their charges and do nothing.

Well the host intended for them to do it, even if they did nnothign i could of made deals with alc. i think it was more due to the fact everyone was passive and did nothing was the main problem. my main problem was trying to remain neutral, when scums are just apparent its real hard for me to just ildyl stand there. even when someone was askign things aobut my role that i knew, it was hard pressed for me to sit there.

also add int he fact i have no clue who was a blacksmith/doc/ect is also problomatic. i do agree with yap though if this is to eb hosted again, it should be done with host-merchant

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gyver

Who both beat the prisoner's dilemma but ended up pissing off god in the process.

Good job for both of you.

Those two awards from host are contradictory.

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

I do agree that this game is more complicated. But apparently although it is complicated, nobody bothered to discuss about it, or keep track of the complicated information.

that, people here just sign up for whatever and then just leave. every setup here has some sort of complication to it in them and i enjoyed that. the fact that its dead as ever is what tells.

its also has been why i have been playing elsewhere as well...

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 08:05 PM

Host-merchant will mean that host will have unnecessary influence to direct the course of the game...

My advice as "Captain Hindsight". You could have announced promotions (or discount for stuff with inflated prices) in the bar during the day you know? Or offer vouchers for producing stuff for you. Advantages: 1) They are motivated to produced stuff for you, 2) They will be inclined to use the vouchers to buy stuff and top-up the differences with their money.

**AppleyNO** · August 12th, 2014, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gerik

You say that, but then you made the role of "master" (my role) detectable in every single thing it did...

Not my setup :P

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Voss

i was looking forward to playing another big FM, but the thing that turned me off from this was the idea about the different race. At that point, it seemed more RPG. I really think this has less to do with 'site being dead' than the rpg like game this was. props to the hosts though for designing it.

looking forward to the next big fm.

Different races just means different roles. Only more complicated.

Seemed like RPG but it is not.

**Yayap** · August 12th, 2014, 08:22 PM

@gerik making you a master was more intended that you make a fellow scum your student so that he can do actions half price... As well as destroy any argument about someone being master = confirmed town.

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

Host-merchant will mean that host will have unnecessary influence to direct the course of the game...

personally i am inclined to have that b/c the host can do the deals as needed to keep it ballenced. i had a secondary objective of staying alive due to me losing half money on death. also given the fact that the role was stll being reworked every day in a diffrent manner kinda played agianst me in a fasion

My advice as "Captain Hindsight". You could have announced promotions (or discount for stuff with inflated prices) in the bar during the day you know? Or offer vouchers for producing stuff for you. Advantages: 1) They are motivated to produced stuff for you, 2) They will be inclined to use the vouchers to buy stuff and top-up the differences with their money.

Again I think with host-merch it would be avoided. or at least have a player who does not need to survive as well.

the biggest problem i had with it really was the fact that i could die any moment, i played a huged risk in the manner of outing self day 2 (kinda) and kinda went against what host wanted, but at the same time i felt somewhat restricted on what i could do due to the fact i had to also be host dependent on sevral things

**Gerik** · August 12th, 2014, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Yayap

@gerik making you a master was more intended that you make a fellow scum your student so that he can do actions half price... As well as destroy any argument about someone being master = confirmed town.

Yeah. Considered doing just that, but my scum team never commented on it when I brought it up. Eventually, given my schedule and the fact that it didn't seem that many people were putting time into the game, my interested waned and I asked to be replaced.

As to the complexity of the game, though it may have turned some away from the game, I feel like those who signed up knew what they were getting into (for the most part) and should've not signed if they thought it would be an issue. On an unrelated note- it seemed to me that the balance favored town, especially as far as kills were concerned. Town had both the lynch and a player that could one-shot people during the day (not to mention other town attacks/abilities). Scum had to have every member use an attack action on one person at night to kill them, limiting the use of their other abilities. And the "attacking during day reveals you" mechanic was interesting (and fitting for RP) but I think ultimately proved too strong a tool for town since it basically turned day-kills into an alternate lynch which essentially confirmed people as town. The only reason this didn't pan out is because all replacements/modkills became "borg" instead of simply being replaced or getting killed. I guess the borg were just designed as a failsafe for if too many people were inactive, but it seems odd to present it as a win for them.

**Orpz** · August 12th, 2014, 09:59 PM

I still have no idea what anything is other than Human

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gerik

On an unrelated note- it seemed to me that the balance favored town, especially as far as kills were concerned. Town had both the lynch and a player that could one-shot people during the day (not to mention other town attacks/abilities).

Actualy this was more due to the fact POD got red alc (rom ale) that gave +2 charges.

I think the game was ballenced overall but the sheer inactivity/passive play/dead site is what made it town-sided at first.

I think if thisgame was ran under acitve memebers, actual agressiona and plays and not just how it floped, it would be more panned out

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 10:16 PM

hey yap what was the amount of the bounty going to be in event i died?

**FM Vrih Riuurren** · August 12th, 2014, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by FM Game Master

Awards:

~~MVP~~ MVR (Most Valuable Reserves): Mathblade and Clementine, the biggest contributors for the Borg!

Most entertaining solo act: Bigby (Vrih Riuurren)

We going to get super awesome graphics for the awards? ^^

**Yayap** · August 12th, 2014, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gerik

Yeah. Considered doing just that, but my scum team never commented on it when I brought it up. Eventually, given my schedule and the fact that it didn't seem that many people were putting time into the game, my interested waned and I asked to be replaced.

As to the complexity of the game, though it may have turned some away from the game, I feel like those who signed up knew what they were getting into (for the most part) and should've not signed if they thought it would be an issue. On an unrelated note- it seemed to me that the balance favored town, especially as far as kills were concerned. Town had both the lynch and a player that could one-shot people during the day (not to mention other town attacks/abilities). Scum had to have every member use an attack action on one person at night to kill them, limiting the use of their other abilities. And the "attacking during day reveals you" mechanic was interesting (and fitting for RP) but I think ultimately proved too strong a tool for town since it basically turned day-kills into an alternate lynch which essentially confirmed people as town. The only reason this didn't pan out is because all replacements/modkills became "borg" instead of simply being replaced or getting killed. I guess the borg were just designed as a failsafe for if too many people were inactive, but it seems odd to present it as a win for them.

As ika pointed out, the only reason pod could 1shot was because he was constantly buying the right alcohol for himself. I tried to balance it for 3 days for a kill for Klingons without extra charges. Mafia had 2 Klingons and +2 charges given out by the leader. I would have thought that mafia would have had plenty of charges to attack at night... Including enough for a 1 shot each night + combined attacks for increased kpn.

If I had decided to "kill" those that became Borg, game would have been unbalanced beyond redemption. Borg win is the equivalent of me cancelling the rest of the game.

As it was mafia only had clement, someone who wasted his charges confirming what mafia already knew about town of Salem. Barack, who was the only mafia that did anything and the scum leader, who was borderline for being mod killed on multiple days. A 2 man team in a setup that relied on team work just wouldn't work.

Town had many disadvantages as well, Bryan being revealed was a hit I thought would result in a big loss or major effort by town to keep him alive.

Town didn't fall into the trap I set for them with the jailer... Aka the only jailer was scum.

And cot hindsight got lucky when he picked the captain as his student.

With all that going on, I think it was pretty obvious that Bryan, bosco and town of Salem had a deal going on that mafia needed to stop... Which mafia pretty much ignored, even with Tim telling you in the night chat that the ferengi was naming all of you scum... None of you even proposed to stop it. Which was a sad point from a hosts point of view.

**MathBlade** · August 12th, 2014, 10:43 PM

Wow game ended. Not surprised based on some of the convos. I skim read the thread and well this game was very different in terms of meta. Had a ton of RL (which is still going on) and other things that made me not as strong as I should have been. It also didn't hurt that Red just became a do whatever the fuck I wanted character and maintain interest while teaching Star Trek. I would be curious to see what you think you picked up about my scum meta Ika.

Overall it was a lot of fun. It was complex and I think if I had more time outside of RL I would have avoided derpy questions.

About reading of Living quarters etc I did not read any account that wasn't Borg but we did have access to Night locations and Night chats if a Borg was present and we had to log in as that Borg. (e.g MathBlade could not read mafia night chat but FM Tim Howard could). When accounts became Borg we got access to their living quarters.

Towards the end it got harder to argue with myself and I feel bad for playing Kytra like I did at the end and deceiving Citrus. I figured a lot of people were confused and I used that to try to get him to sheep me. When the site went down and RL piled up I disappeared. Kudos to the rest of the Borg for stepping up.

I signed up as a reserve initially to just have something fun to read while moving to California. Sorry it turned into a lot more and kudos to everyone else for helping. Tis a shame I never got to use my alts that I dreamed up :P I did Kytra a little because Clueless = hilarious movie.

Kudos to Yayap and AppleyNO for being such good hosts. *pushes over a drink of their choice redeemable if we ever meet in person*

Overall may no one please kill this Fleshy Bit as she is no longer Borg.

**MathBlade** · August 12th, 2014, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by FM Vrih Riuurren

We going to get super awesome graphics for the awards? ^^

Agreed!! Clementine deserved an awards for Borg and Nick
VR deserves awards for most laughter (outside of my trolly posts)
For most towny I would probably say PoD
And best scum I would go with Barack.
I hope we can still vote though.

I am so sad though. I went Titus hunting and she wasn't here

**MathBlade** · August 12th, 2014, 10:55 PM

Ok and ika good job with the Ferengi
It was me posting with clementine advice. Sorry to annoy you we realized who you were and thought you'd know you could lie. *hides from ika barrage* I was trying to look über towny by pointing out everyone trusted you against Star Trek meta. If it wasn't for that sheriff check I dunno what would have happened.

Great work sir. *looks around for ika sustenance* If you find yourself in California I hope you say hi.

**ika** · August 12th, 2014, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by MathBlade

Ok and ika good job with the Ferengi
It was me posting with clementine advice. Sorry to annoy you we realized who you were and thought you'd know you could lie. *hides from ika barrage* I was trying to look über towny by pointing out everyone trusted you against Star Trek meta. If it wasn't for that sheriff check I dunno what would have happened.

Great work sir. *looks around for ika sustenance* If you find yourself in California I hope you say hi.

well i want to see another scum game b/c if this is how it is i know a scumtell and a towntell from you.

I didnt mind that you guys knew me, i just think you guys were not expecting what played out. some adivce is this: dont provke me, when i have powers i am not afird to use them. there are certain triggers that will make me act in the manner.

I reacted in that fasion b/c i know clem has a thing for being aginst neutrals and will kill them on sight.

i was not aware as you think on many of the things, if you check my quarters and see the talk with host you will see that a lot of it was not really fully known.

using star trek meta was not a good case tbh, if you look at other things i basicly went flat out saying "i will not provide false feedback" due to the fact my wincon depended on my surivvial.

even if we didnt sheirff check you, i think i/we had enough momentum against you to where I could still win it. I had bryan+bosco under my trust factor enough and they had enough voice to where i could be fine.

when you guys claim ferargi, i had no implication to go against it, in fact i enjoyed the clusterfuck it made due tot he fact it does nothing to me.

**Nick** · August 12th, 2014, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Yayap

As it was mafia only had clement, someone who wasted his charges confirming what mafia already knew about town of Salem.

Surely mafia would not want to kill an innocent town? Captain is no threat to mafia anyways.

**powerofdeath** · August 12th, 2014, 11:28 PM

It seems like the same players are being modkilled from inactivity, I remember those who was modkilled in my M-FM also got modkilled here.

I had to replace out like 5 people.

Why bother signing up if you aren't gonna play it at all?

**MathBlade** · August 12th, 2014, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by ika

well i want to see another scum game b/c if this is how it is i know a scumtell and a towntell from you.

I didnt mind that you guys knew me, i just think you guys were not expecting what played out. some adivce is this: dont provke me, when i have powers i am not afird to use them. there are certain triggers that will make me act in the manner.

I reacted in that fasion b/c i know clem has a thing for being aginst neutrals and will kill them on sight.

i was not aware as you think on many of the things, if you check my quarters and see the talk with host you will see that a lot of it was not really fully known.

using star trek meta was not a good case tbh, if you look at other things i basicly went flat out saying "i will not provide false feedback" due to the fact my wincon depended on my surivvial.

even if we didnt sheirff check you, i think i/we had enough momentum against you to where I could still win it. I had bryan+bosco under my trust factor enough and they had enough voice to where i could be fine.

when you guys claim ferargi, i had no implication to go against it, in fact i enjoyed the clusterfuck it made due tot he fact it does nothing to me.

Glad you had fun. I wish I could like button this post.

Time to try to sleep again *sigh*

**Gyver** · August 13th, 2014, 06:31 AM

I do have a couple of complaints on some of the mechanics.

I think people either started with too much money or couldn't generate money fast enough. Town would've been drained pretty fast.

Even without a ton of people becoming borg I'm not a fan of cult gaining access to basically all night chats (if they convert an officer or mafia).

I think having 3 possible times in which a person can do an action ridiculously nerfs dets, lookouts and bus drivers.

**Gerik** · August 13th, 2014, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Yayap

As ika pointed out, the only reason pod could 1shot was because he was constantly buying the right alcohol for himself. I tried to balance it for 3 days for a kill for Klingons without extra charges. Mafia had 2 Klingons and +2 charges given out by the leader. I would have thought that mafia would have had plenty of charges to attack at night... Including enough for a 1 shot each night + combined attacks for increased kpn.

If I had decided to "kill" those that became Borg, game would have been unbalanced beyond redemption. Borg win is the equivalent of me cancelling the rest of the game.

As it was mafia only had clement, someone who wasted his charges confirming what mafia already knew about town of Salem. Barack, who was the only mafia that did anything and the scum leader, who was borderline for being mod killed on multiple days. A 2 man team in a setup that relied on team work just wouldn't work.

Town had many disadvantages as well, Bryan being revealed was a hit I thought would result in a big loss or major effort by town to keep him alive.

Town didn't fall into the trap I set for them with the jailer... Aka the only jailer was scum.

And cot hindsight got lucky when he picked the captain as his student.

With all that going on, I think it was pretty obvious that Bryan, bosco and town of Salem had a deal going on that mafia needed to stop... Which mafia pretty much ignored, even with Tim telling you in the night chat that the ferengi was naming all of you scum... None of you even proposed to stop it. Which was a sad point from a hosts point of view.

Well to be fair, the ferengi was supposed to be a pseudo-cohost with no win condition... ie. completely neutral... During the time I played the game, I didn't care about the Ferengi because, as I stated a few times in the night chat, we should have no reason to care about a completely neutral party. The fact that this was an incorrect assessment is more a failure on the Ferengi's part and a bit on yours as well for choosing to implement him the way you did. So perhaps we should've put a stop to it... but there shouldn't have been anything we needed to stop in the first place. Also this:

[7/19/14, 10:31:45 PM] Yayap: he is mostly just a uber neutral player
[7/19/14, 10:32:23 PM] Gerik: Then why doesn't he count?
[7/19/14, 10:32:39 PM] Yayap: because he doesn't vote
[7/19/14, 10:33:01 PM] Gerik: He's not allowed to?
[7/19/14, 10:33:09 PM] Yayap: votes won't count
[7/19/14, 10:33:51 PM] Gerik: But he can still make them.
[7/19/14, 10:34:10 PM] Gerik: ie.
[7/19/14, 10:34:28 PM] Gerik: I can't propose for everyone to vote someone randomly to find the ferengi
[7/19/14, 10:34:32 PM] Gerik: right?
[7/19/14, 10:35:17 PM] Yayap: now why would you want to do that?
[7/19/14, 10:36:15 PM] Yayap: you'll most likely be getting your weapons from him
[7/19/14, 10:36:54 PM] Gerik: Well if he has a win condition, and it's not the same as mine (and I don't know what it is exactly), that means it might conflict with mine. Plus, since he is targetable and such, I figure there must be a reason for it.
[7/19/14, 10:37:44 PM] Yayap: His win condition is literally: Make more money!
[7/19/14, 10:37:55 PM] Gerik: oh lol
[7/19/14, 10:39:33 PM] Gerik: so then... why IS he targetable?
[7/19/14, 10:40:36 PM] Yayap: prevent him from selling weapons to the mafia?

As to PoD, the alcohol is another thing that benefitted town more than scum. Sure they had to spend some time figuring out which was good and bad for them, but they could do that relatively quickly and reap the benefits. For scum it seemed better to save money for when certain weapons (namely the Varon-T Disruptor) came into play that were promised in the setup (which never arrived, afaik).

**ika** · August 13th, 2014, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Gerik

Well to be fair, the ferengi was supposed to be a pseudo-cohost with no win condition... ie. completely neutral... During the time I played the game, I didn't care about the Ferengi because, as I stated a few times in the night chat, we should have no reason to care about a completely neutral party. The fact that this was an incorrect assessment is more a failure on the Ferengi's part and a bit on yours as well for choosing to implement him the way you did. So perhaps we should've put a stop to it... but there shouldn't have been anything we needed to stop in the first place.

it was the orginal intention for me to be a co-host and not be a player at all, it got changed afterwards. aslo even though my goal is to make money it does not mean i can act pro-town or anti-town, i am allowed to act as i plaease. im sure yap wasnt happy with the way i acted but it comesback to my sig where host cant realyl do much about it.

As to PoD, the alcohol is another thing that benefitted town more than scum. Sure they had to spend some time figuring out which was good and bad for them, but they could do that relatively quickly and reap the benefits. For scum it seemed better to save money for when certain weapons (namely the Varon-T Disruptor) came into play that were promised in the setup (which never arrived, afaik).

T-disurptor is one shot, i think it owuld of been better to have the acl boost then just a weapon. plus i was going to make that weapon super expensive (more then $100)

**FM Bastian Schweinsteiger** · August 13th, 2014, 09:24 AM

i request "modkilled" to be renamed to just converted or borgified/borged or assimilated and that converted COMs are no longer red

reasons:
1) this event was obviously part of gameplay, like in normal cult games. modkills are not part of gameplay, it's an external circumstance.
2) most people didn't deserve to be modkilled, because they were still active. and yes it matters, for statistics etc. modkills do not only affect the game, the range is far bigger, as it affects future fms etc
3) it's not in the rules that you get modkilled if you post like less than 10 times a day. it says "If you sign up, I expect you to play."
reading day chat and making 1 or several post is playing.

i also don't like that my other critique was completely ignored. it's almost like the hosts wanted town to lose on d4, because after the downtime there was like 12h left. obviously not everyone can show up during these 12h.

given the inactivity of people and/or the extreme rules for conversion the setup was ridiculously unbalanced, no way for us or mafia to win as of d4

**ika** · August 13th, 2014, 09:39 AM

i request "modkilled" to be renamed to just converted or borgified/borged or assimilated and that converted COMs are no longer red

modkills=borgified

reasons:
1) this event was obviously part of gameplay, like in normal cult games. modkills are not part of gameplay, it's an external circumstance.
dont be inavitve, they were put in as a limitation for the game, technacly everyone could heal for all eternatiy, and again, modkill was the borg recutiment meathood

2) most people didn't deserve to be modkilled, because they were still active. and yes it matters, for statistics etc. modkills do not only affect the game, the range is far bigger, as it affects future fms etc
its host discression what dictate a modkill

3) it's not in the rules that you get modkilled if you post like less than 10 times a day. it says "If you sign up, I expect you to play."
reading day chat and making 1 or several post is playing.
again, its host discression what is "active" and what is inactive

i also don't like that my other critique was completely ignored. it's almost like the hosts wanted town to lose on d4, because after the downtime there was like 12h left. obviously not everyone can show up during these 12h.

borgs already won, there was no reason for the day to continue

given the inactivity of people and/or the extreme rules for conversion the setup was ridiculously unbalanced, no way for us or mafia to win as of d4

then dont be inacive, yap sai in the prime of this site, borg would never had a chance, all you can do is blame the players for inactivity

also:

[8/11/2014 9:35:25 PM] yayap: Once you see the Borg recruitment mechanics, you'll see that Borg would never have stood a chance in the glory days of the site.
[8/11/2014 9:35:36 PM] yayap: So it's not because I made Borg op
[8/11/2014 9:35:54 PM] ika: its that players are passive....

[8/11/2014 9:38:49 PM] yayap: Borg recruitment mechanics = all modkills become borg

the fault comes to inactivity, yap made the perfect counter-ballence to modkills, give them to another type of role to play.

lets take it from if every modkill was taken account for, it would of been 2 scums left over and been an easy sweep for town

**ika** · August 13th, 2014, 09:41 AM

if i was town or maf i would of rather had this ending then win/lose by mod intervention of modkills tbh

**FM Bastian Schweinsteiger** · August 13th, 2014, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Gyver

I prefer complexity myself. My only complaint is the punishing of active players by turning modkilled into borg.

Many of Arrow and My reads on scum were accurate and I was going to be making full use of both town Masters using capt charges.

really, i would have gotten charges? if you had created a chat with me once and trusted me, it'd be pretty nice, i could always make you stay on alert for 0.5 c (or twice for 1c) (but you would've needed a nice weapon), let you witch guys for 2c and especially i could have done a lot of kills (if i knew there were so many borg, i would have gone on rampage, i had lots of charges saved already (because i'm hard to kill) but it kind of sucked that borg were so OP hard to kill... impossible for town to beat them). klingons were only supposed to get 1 charge, but with master i already got 2 and then the death of romulan, 3 per night plus additional 3 captain charges and maybe 2 of red alc, that's 2 kills each night

however i dont like that captain was also an officer, it's super easy and boring to spread charges to confirmed town

in general i am just dissappointed about the fast end of this game, i did take the time to understand all this (yes it was much, but not too much and i don't think it was complicated after all, as it was pretty easy to understand, what i hated though is that i had to ask sooo many questions which were left open by the setup and some answers were really surprising, like you could stack actions and you are informed who attacks you, all this was never mentioned in the setup), which now feels completely in vain and the mechanics in general were actually fun. some mechanics sucked too (more maybe later) and what most sucked is that everything was secret. i mean can't you make public rolecards like every setup has? why didn't we know what happens if the ferengi dies? and worst of all, the borg. yes you couldnt tell us that inactives (or better say less active) are converted. but it still sucked. also all the other things should have been open, like borgs can read everything (which sucked pretty hard btw, you'd think that you're on your own with the others in your night location). borgs are controlled by external players. there is no thing such as borg queen among the players. all this could have reduced our confusion. and you should have told us the meaning of the code, that it shows how many borg there are. no one could even imagine there being 8 borg as of d3, that's ridiculous. then we would've tried better to keep them under control. instead your rp made us believe borg are not the real threat.

also why was the item list and location list not in the races thread? these are things you always have to look up and special mechanics, so it would have been easier to handle

**Citrus** · August 13th, 2014, 10:39 AM

Yeah sorry but I just think this was absolutely terrible implementation for an FM. Like why the fuck would you think it's ok to make a game where modkills -> cult. At the very least just remove them from the game and let the remaining players play with what's left. You're giving people a hard time for all the inactive players, but what about the players that actually tried? People like Ika and Gyver NumberTwo that actually put in effort.

I can understand frustration at the lack of player interest/activity, but it's a really really fucking dumb decision to just throw the game and act all pissy when you wasted the time of some of those players that actually read and tried to work with all those rules. And then you throw sarcastic-as-fuck 'awards' to the people that did what you wanted and tried? If you're going to hit everyone with a stick, would you really expect player interest/activity to increase.

Fuck your 'herp derp player base sucks' attitude when you just shat on the players that tried.

**Citrus** · August 13th, 2014, 10:41 AM

Mechanics comments:

The setup seems fun in hindsight. I think the evenings/nights should have been combined with the player count being so low

**Citrus** · August 13th, 2014, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Citrus

Yeah sorry but I just think this was absolutely terrible implementation for an FM. Like why the fuck would you think it's ok to make a game where modkills -> cult. At the very least just remove them from the game and let the remaining players play with what's left. You're giving people a hard time for all the inactive players, but what about the players that actually tried? People like Ika and Gyver NumberTwo that actually put in effort.

I can understand frustration at the lack of player interest/activity, but it's a really really fucking dumb decision to just throw the game and act all pissy when you wasted the time of some of those players that actually read and tried to work with all those rules. And then you throw sarcastic-as-fuck 'awards' to the people that did what you wanted and tried? If you're going to hit everyone with a stick, would you really expect player interest/activity to increase.

Fuck your 'herp derp player base sucks' attitude when you just shat on the players that tried.

tl;dr hosts are hypocritical as fuck for throwing the game due to inactivity and complaining about time wasted, when they wasted the time of the few people that put in a ton of effort. And then they "Lemon Awarded" half of those effort players with sarcastic jabs at them

**FM Bastian Schweinsteiger** · August 13th, 2014, 10:49 AM

i request "modkilled" to be renamed to just converted or borgified/borged or assimilated and that converted COMs are no longer red

modkills=borgified
but i request this to be changed
reasons:
1) this event was obviously part of gameplay, like in normal cult games. modkills are not part of gameplay, it's an external circumstance.
dont be inavitve, they were put in as a limitation for the game, technacly everyone could heal for all eternatiy, and again, modkill was the borg recutiment meathood
explain how the game could have never ended. but this doesn't even matter because:
i know it was their recruitment method and i'm fine by that but it should be considered as a 'modkill'
2) most people didn't deserve to be modkilled, because they were still active. and yes it matters, for statistics etc. modkills do not only affect the game, the range is far bigger, as it affects future fms etc
its host discression what dictate a modkill
only to some extent
3) it's not in the rules that you get modkilled if you post like less than 10 times a day. it says "If you sign up, I expect you to play."
reading day chat and making 1 or several post is playing.
again, its host discression what is "active" and what is inactive
technically inactive means afk which means posting 0 times. active is the opposite so posts > 0
i also don't like that my other critique was completely ignored. it's almost like the hosts wanted town to lose on d4, because after the downtime there was like 12h left. obviously not everyone can show up during these 12h.

borgs already won, there was no reason for the day to continue
they won because day didn't continue, didnt they?
given the inactivity of people and/or the extreme rules for conversion the setup was ridiculously unbalanced, no way for us or mafia to win as of d4

then dont be inacive, yap sai in the prime of this site, borg would never had a chance, all you can do is blame the players for inactivity
players will always be inactive, that's given from higher powers. and everyone knows the site is dead, so you just can't make such a setup. of course you can now say that it's our fault, but you should have known, so it's not our fault
also:

[8/11/2014 9:35:25 PM] yayap: Once you see the Borg recruitment mechanics, you'll see that Borg would never have stood a chance in the glory days of the site.
[8/11/2014 9:35:36 PM] yayap: So it's not because I made Borg op
[8/11/2014 9:35:54 PM] ika: its that players are passive....

[8/11/2014 9:38:49 PM] yayap: Borg recruitment mechanics = all modkills become borg

the fault comes to inactivity, yap made the perfect counter-ballence to modkills, give them to another type of role to play.

lets take it from if every modkill was taken account for, it would of been 2 scums left over and been an easy sweep for town

**ika** · August 13th, 2014, 10:55 AM

i request "modkilled" to be renamed to just converted or borgified/borged or assimilated and that converted COMs are no longer red[/COLOR][/B]

modkills=borgified
but i request this to be changed
but it wont.... yap mad it liek this
reasons:
1) this event was obviously part of gameplay, like in normal cult games. modkills are not part of gameplay, it's an external circumstance.
dont be inavitve, they were put in as a limitation for the game, technacly everyone could heal for all eternatiy, and again, modkill was the borg recutiment meathood
explain how the game could have never ended. but this doesn't even matter because:
i know it was their recruitment method and i'm fine by that but it should be considered as a 'modkill'
well no shit, but if that was known the game would of been easily imallenced. a host has every right to do what they like, also he stated hes not going to answer evey question

2) most people didn't deserve to be modkilled, because they were still active. and yes it matters, for statistics etc. modkills do not only affect the game, the range is far bigger, as it affects future fms etc
its host discression what dictate a modkill
only to some extent
no its entirely host decision, its all viewpoints

3) it's not in the rules that you get modkilled if you post like less than 10 times a day. it says "If you sign up, I expect you to play."
reading day chat and making 1 or several post is playing.
again, its host discression what is "active" and what is inactive
technically inactive means afk which means posting 0 times. active is the opposite so posts > 0
technacly, again it goes to host decision

i also don't like that my other critique was completely ignored. it's almost like the hosts wanted town to lose on d4, because after the downtime there was like 12h left. obviously not everyone can show up during these 12h.

borgs already won, there was no reason for the day to continue
they won because day didn't continue, didnt they?
given the inactivity of people and/or the extreme rules for conversion the setup was ridiculously unbalanced, no way for us or mafia to win as of d4

then dont be inacive, yap sai in the prime of this site, borg would never had a chance, all you can do is blame the players for inactivity
players will always be inactive, that's given from higher powers. and everyone knows the site is dead, so you just can't make such a setup. of course you can now say that it's our fault, but you should have known, so it's not our fault
he was planning on not hosting to begin with, the fact he did means something.

also:

[8/11/2014 9:35:25 PM] yayap: Once you see the Borg recruitment mechanics, you'll see that Borg would never have stood a chance in the glory days of the site.
[8/11/2014 9:35:36 PM] yayap: So it's not because I made Borg op
[8/11/2014 9:35:54 PM] ika: its that players are passive....

[8/11/2014 9:38:49 PM] yayap: Borg recruitment mechanics = all modkills become borg

the fault comes to inactivity, yap made the perfect counter-ballence to modkills, give them to another type of role to play.

lets take it from if every modkill was taken account for, it would of been 2 scums left over and been an easy sweep for town[/QUOTE]

**ika** · August 13th, 2014, 10:56 AM

host reserve the rights to do waht they deem is right, i have played setups that are entirly closed and has no roles revealed or any question answered, the fact that he answers most of it is something you should be greatful for.

**Yayap** · August 13th, 2014, 10:57 AM