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[Light_Yagami]

I Want No Other Talk Beyond That..

[blinkskater]

-vote auckmid

[blinkskater]

only 3 worlds:
1) the werewolf leader bussed their minion
2) its auckmind
3) its light_yagami (non voter)

Naz werewolf and minion dont know each other so this is shit.

[blinkskater]

Because based on overall scumness like i based my lynch off day 1. This slot is also scum.

[Auckmid]

I'll get back to the Blinkskater situation, but lets deal with this first...

Okay So I Dont Want Roles i Want N1 Actions Out Of You PPL..

So this is absolutely terrible. I have to assume that this is going to be followed up by something important like a lookout claim. Even if it is, all of the TPRs will get revealed if they answer this request, allowing for guaranteed cults on future nights. If you want to give everyone a chance to reveal whether or not they received feedback last night, go for it. I am obviously not going to answer what my N1 action was.

Unless this is just a horribly worded request for night feedback, which I did not receive last night.

[AIVION]

Okay So I Dont Want Roles i Want N1 Actions Out Of You PPL..

Lol I don't understand.

So you don't WANT roles but you want Night actions...

Lol?

[AIVION]

I Want No Other Talk Beyond That..

Like... seriously help me understand this:

How do you give out night action results while also not giving out your role?

I don't even..

[Arsonist]

Since auckmid defended Banshis, then why not?

-vote Auckmid

[Marshmallow Marshall]

only 3 worlds:
1) the werewolf leader bussed their minion
2) its auckmind
3) its light_yagami (non voter)

Read the setup: scums don't know eachother, only their rp names.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

i had hammered because i did think banshis was scum and i didn't vote earlier because i wanted to hammer. i hammered because i wanted that scummy immunity of being converted and it worked 8]

At the cost of EoD information, which we REALLY needed?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Okay So I Dont Want Roles i Want N1 Actions Out Of You PPL..

I Want No Other Talk Beyond That..

Uuhmmmm..... I'll just say it: this is terribly bad. Bad, bad, BAD.

1: it makes no sense, action claim = outing TPRs, which is literally the worst thing ever in this setup
2: you are restricting discussion
3: you are literally ruling scumhunting out.

So, please no lol.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Lol I don't understand.

So you don't WANT roles but you want Night actions...

Lol?

Like... seriously help me understand this:

How do you give out night action results while also not giving out your role?

I don't even..

...basically, yes.

What are your reads atm?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

At this point, I think Auckmid is the best pressure target. I will risk myself and say that Blink is town... YOU BETTER BE THIS TIME

-vote Auckmid

L-2 btw

[Auckmid]

At the moment, I do want to hear from Light again since I don't think even he would demand night action claims unless he actually had something to follow it up with and he obviously isn't getting those claims. Having said that...

1) The only reason why I am shown at L-2 is because Damus didn't update the vote counter. With 7 people alive, it should only take 4 votes to lynch. I doubt that Damus would actually allow the lynch on me to go through even if I do get 4 votes from this position seeing how people were misinformed on how many votes it takes to lynch and there will most likely end up being a vote reset. However, if we are using what the vote limit should be, I am still currently at L-1.

2) Everyone has checked in and no one has claimed to have been healed or the target of a failed cult attempt. For this reason, it's safe to assume that there was a successful cult action last night, bringing the scum count back to 2.

3) While I can spend more time arguing my position, my defense is still ultimately going to come down to this. Even though a few people have still not been properly reading the thread even though it has been mentioned a few times, the werewolf and the minion did not know each others actual identities, only their RP names. I looked carefully over Banshis' posts after he got lynched and I saw nothing that hinted towards his RP name. Unless someone saw something from him that I missed, the werewolf had no idea that Banshis was aligned to them. Even if you are scum reading me, interpreting Banshis' flip as evidence that I must have been scum trying to protect my ally is idiocy. Additionally, even if I was on a scum team with Banshis and knew his identity, I would like to think that I wouldn't link myself so heavily to him after he started receiving pressure.

The part of the Banshis flip that isn't completely illogical and does somewhat incriminate me is that the logic behind the Banshis lynch was based on him asking Blinkskater why he opened up with a WIFOM claim, which was perceived as anti-town, largely because people interpreted it as role-digging (obviously very anti-town in a cult setup). After he received criticism and votes for the question being anti-town, I defended the question. Since people saw the question as being very anti-town and weren't convinced by my reasoning for seeing the question as valid, I was also perceived as anti-town. Now that Banshis has been revealed as scum, people feel vindicated by their line of reasoning when lynching Banshis and are now carrying that on to try and get a lynch onto me.



The short defense that I have for this is that if I was the werewolf, I really didn't have any reason to stick my neck out and give any sort of defense for Banshis' position. Popular opinion was already shifting heavily against Banshis at the time. If I was the werewolf, then the only reasons I would have for acting like this would be...

1) I actually agreed with the logic behind pushing Banshis and wanted to derail it because I thought that Banshis was my minion and I wanted to save him. However, the logic behind this is extremely tenuous since I would be compromising my own position for a very uncertain reward. As has already been established, the werewolf didn't know who his minion was. I would have been making an argument I didn't believe in and exposing myself to try and save someone that I thought might be an ally but I could also be completely mistaken on. If someone wants to try and make an argument on why this situation is plausible, go for it, but I certainly don't think it is something that I would ever do.

2) I genuinely didn't believe the role-digging accusation. If this was the case, the only reason why defending the question would make me scum would be if I somehow would have seen the question as anti-town if I was town aligned and instead somehow didn't see it as anti-town as the werewolf. Similar to the logic of if I was on a scum team with Banshis and I knew his identity, I would very much like to think that if I was scum, I wouldn't lose the ability to look at things logically and be able to see things from a town perspective. Again, if someone wants to try and refute this, go for it, but I would have to be making the most basic of scum mistakes for this to checkout.

Unless someone disagrees with these arguments, even if you do think that I would have risked myself as the werewolf by defending Banshis' question (which is uncertain in itself), I would have made the same defense as town, making the entire argument that me defending Banshis' question makes me scum null.



While I have previously gone over a few of these points before, I am going to clarify the reasons why I wasn't that convinced by Banshis' question automatically making him scum as well as my suspicion of Blinkskater:

Prior to going into the game and before even getting my rolecard, I considered making a WIFOM claim immediately regardless of what role I got once the game started. The logic I was using was that if I was town, it could throw the werewolf off and cause them to make a mistake through my claim. If I was scum, I could use it to make myself appear pro-town since the play was coming from a "town motivated" place. The reason why I decided against this once I went into the game with a town rolecard was because I didn't think that there was actually any pro-town benefit for doing this. The werewolf would be taking a shot in the dark if he targeted me on whether to kill or to cult regardless of whether I did the play no matter what my actual role was, so it seemed pointless beyond doing a bit of pro-town theater.

When the game started I did find it to be a bit suspicious when Blink decided to follow through with what I saw as the type of gambit that I considered and opted against doing when I rolled town. TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THOUGH, EVEN THOUGH I DID FIND IT TO BE A BIT SUSPICIOUS, THIS ALONE WAS NOT THE REASON I LATER MADE A PUSH AGAINST BLINK. Though I had chosen not to make that type of play it was entirely possible that Blink was town and had come to a different conclusion, most likely because he had more faith in his ability to actively trigger a mistake from the werewolf which was entirely inline with his character. However, even though I thought that there was a very plausible scenario where he was town, I was still curious on his exact motivation for doing the play. As such, when someone else asked why Blink decided to make the post that he did, I was interested in hearing his rationale, so defended the question.

Even though Blink has been claiming that I've been attempting to force a role claim out of him, either due to misinterpreting what I've been saying or out of malice, that never had anything to do with it. All I wanted to know was his general motivation for doing the type of WIFOM play that I had opted out of doing earlier since I didn't believe that it would accomplish anything other then give a pro-town visage. Giving some indicator of the general motive would NOT require any information regarding the specific role.

I'm also going to mention here that even after the flip, while I do think that using Banshis' question as a basis for a lynch against him was correct, the reason why it was scummy was a bit different then what people seem to currently think. I still don't think that Banshis was thinking "Let's see if I can get people to reveal their roles so that it will be easy for the werewolf to successfully cult people. The town will never notice *evil laugh*." I think it is more likely that Banshis was thinking "Questioning people is pro-town, this is something that I can question so I'll go for it" without thinking much about why a town player would ask the question or how it would be received. The reason why I did not want to get clumped together with Banshis and why I did very much recognize the possibility that Banshis was scum was because even though I had reasons for wanting to get a response out of Blink, as the day progressed, I became increasingly aware that it was unlikely that the reason why Banshis asked the question were the same as my reasons for wanting an answer.

Since this has already taken a significant amount of time to write (this entire post is around 1500 words), I'm not going to continue this post for much longer. I'm not going to rewrite the arguments that I made when I voted for Blink (reread the original post), but reasons given were primarily because I found his reaction to the questioning to be suspicious since he essentially refused to give any type of answer and immediately clumped those who brought forward the question as scum (and since the person I got clumped with flipped scum, this is why I am in my current situation) and because I found Blink not voting me earlier in the game after he called the random questions scummy as out of character.

The very last quick point I will also make is that the push against me is pretty much solely under the belief that I am the werewolf. After the position I was in at the end of day 1, there is around a 0% chance that I would be the cult target seeing how the chance of a mislynch on me would have looked very high and still doesn't look unlikely seeing how I am technically at L-1.

[Light_Yagami]

OKay Let Me Ask A Different Question.. What One Of You Is Schuyler?

[Light_Yagami]

Uuhmmmm..... I'll just say it: this is terribly bad. Bad, bad, BAD.

1: it makes no sense, action claim = outing TPRs, which is literally the worst thing ever in this setup
2: you are restricting discussion
3: you are literally ruling scumhunting out.

So, please no lol.

It Not Outing Shit..

Yes, So I Can Get To The Bottom Of Something..

Incorrect Me Doing This Is An Attempt To Find The Scum.. That Im Pretty Positive Ive Already Found..

[blinkskater]

OKay Let Me Ask A Different Question.. What One Of You Is Schuyler?

Auckmid really wants explanations STILL on my wifom.

I set a trap... Catch a scum in it red handed because of the mindset that scum had.

Auckmid shares this mindset but calls the reasoning different. How can you know what Banshis was thinking...?

He was scum therefore using a scum mindset, my trap was successful.

[blinkskater]

OKay Let Me Ask A Different Question.. What One Of You Is Schuyler?

The only players interested in name dropping would be scums....

[Light_Yagami]

The only players interested in name dropping would be scums....

Incorrect Names Are Pro Town Tactic At This Point Refusal In My Eyes Would Show U Became Scum LN And The Guy That Visited You Is Your Scum Buddy Now..

[Light_Yagami]

For Me Name Dropping I A Process Of Elimination.. At This Point..

[Light_Yagami]

Is A Process Of Elimination ^

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler : Auckmid's big post, #164 :

At the moment, I do want to hear from Light again since I don't think even he would demand night action claims unless he actually had something to follow it up with and he obviously isn't getting those claims. Having said that...

1) The only reason why I am shown at L-2 is because Damus didn't update the vote counter. With 7 people alive, it should only take 4 votes to lynch. I doubt that Damus would actually allow the lynch on me to go through even if I do get 4 votes from this position seeing how people were misinformed on how many votes it takes to lynch and there will most likely end up being a vote reset. However, if we are using what the vote limit should be, I am still currently at L-1.

2) Everyone has checked in and no one has claimed to have been healed or the target of a failed cult attempt. For this reason, it's safe to assume that there was a successful cult action last night, bringing the scum count back to 2.

3) While I can spend more time arguing my position, my defense is still ultimately going to come down to this. Even though a few people have still not been properly reading the thread even though it has been mentioned a few times, the werewolf and the minion did not know each others actual identities, only their RP names. I looked carefully over Banshis' posts after he got lynched and I saw nothing that hinted towards his RP name. Unless someone saw something from him that I missed, the werewolf had no idea that Banshis was aligned to them. Even if you are scum reading me, interpreting Banshis' flip as evidence that I must have been scum trying to protect my ally is idiocy. Additionally, even if I was on a scum team with Banshis and knew his identity, I would like to think that I wouldn't link myself so heavily to him after he started receiving pressure.

The part of the Banshis flip that isn't completely illogical and does somewhat incriminate me is that the logic behind the Banshis lynch was based on him asking Blinkskater why he opened up with a WIFOM claim, which was perceived as anti-town, largely because people interpreted it as role-digging (obviously very anti-town in a cult setup). After he received criticism and votes for the question being anti-town, I defended the question. Since people saw the question as being very anti-town and weren't convinced by my reasoning for seeing the question as valid, I was also perceived as anti-town. Now that Banshis has been revealed as scum, people feel vindicated by their line of reasoning when lynching Banshis and are now carrying that on to try and get a lynch onto me.



The short defense that I have for this is that if I was the werewolf, I really didn't have any reason to stick my neck out and give any sort of defense for Banshis' position. Popular opinion was already shifting heavily against Banshis at the time. If I was the werewolf, then the only reasons I would have for acting like this would be...

1) I actually agreed with the logic behind pushing Banshis and wanted to derail it because I thought that Banshis was my minion and I wanted to save him. However, the logic behind this is extremely tenuous since I would be compromising my own position for a very uncertain reward. As has already been established, the werewolf didn't know who his minion was. I would have been making an argument I didn't believe in and exposing myself to try and save someone that I thought might be an ally but I could also be completely mistaken on. If someone wants to try and make an argument on why this situation is plausible, go for it, but I certainly don't think it is something that I would ever do.

2) I genuinely didn't believe the role-digging accusation. If this was the case, the only reason why defending the question would make me scum would be if I somehow would have seen the question as anti-town if I was town aligned and instead somehow didn't see it as anti-town as the werewolf. Similar to the logic of if I was on a scum team with Banshis and I knew his identity, I would very much like to think that if I was scum, I wouldn't lose the ability to look at things logically and be able to see things from a town perspective. Again, if someone wants to try and refute this, go for it, but I would have to be making the most basic of scum mistakes for this to checkout.

Unless someone disagrees with these arguments, even if you do think that I would have risked myself as the werewolf by defending Banshis' question (which is uncertain in itself), I would have made the same defense as town, making the entire argument that me defending Banshis' question makes me scum null.



While I have previously gone over a few of these points before, I am going to clarify the reasons why I wasn't that convinced by Banshis' question automatically making him scum as well as my suspicion of Blinkskater:

Prior to going into the game and before even getting my rolecard, I considered making a WIFOM claim immediately regardless of what role I got once the game started. The logic I was using was that if I was town, it could throw the werewolf off and cause them to make a mistake through my claim. If I was scum, I could use it to make myself appear pro-town since the play was coming from a "town motivated" place. The reason why I decided against this once I went into the game with a town rolecard was because I didn't think that there was actually any pro-town benefit for doing this. The werewolf would be taking a shot in the dark if he targeted me on whether to kill or to cult regardless of whether I did the play no matter what my actual role was, so it seemed pointless beyond doing a bit of pro-town theater.

When the game started I did find it to be a bit suspicious when Blink decided to follow through with what I saw as the type of gambit that I considered and opted against doing when I rolled town. TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THOUGH, EVEN THOUGH I DID FIND IT TO BE A BIT SUSPICIOUS, THIS ALONE WAS NOT THE REASON I LATER MADE A PUSH AGAINST BLINK. Though I had chosen not to make that type of play it was entirely possible that Blink was town and had come to a different conclusion, most likely because he had more faith in his ability to actively trigger a mistake from the werewolf which was entirely inline with his character. However, even though I thought that there was a very plausible scenario where he was town, I was still curious on his exact motivation for doing the play. As such, when someone else asked why Blink decided to make the post that he did, I was interested in hearing his rationale, so defended the question.

Even though Blink has been claiming that I've been attempting to force a role claim out of him, either due to misinterpreting what I've been saying or out of malice, that never had anything to do with it. All I wanted to know was his general motivation for doing the type of WIFOM play that I had opted out of doing earlier since I didn't believe that it would accomplish anything other then give a pro-town visage. Giving some indicator of the general motive would NOT require any information regarding the specific role.

I'm also going to mention here that even after the flip, while I do think that using Banshis' question as a basis for a lynch against him was correct, the reason why it was scummy was a bit different then what people seem to currently think. I still don't think that Banshis was thinking "Let's see if I can get people to reveal their roles so that it will be easy for the werewolf to successfully cult people. The town will never notice *evil laugh*." I think it is more likely that Banshis was thinking "Questioning people is pro-town, this is something that I can question so I'll go for it" without thinking much about why a town player would ask the question or how it would be received. The reason why I did not want to get clumped together with Banshis and why I did very much recognize the possibility that Banshis was scum was because even though I had reasons for wanting to get a response out of Blink, as the day progressed, I became increasingly aware that it was unlikely that the reason why Banshis asked the question were the same as my reasons for wanting an answer.

Since this has already taken a significant amount of time to write (this entire post is around 1500 words), I'm not going to continue this post for much longer. I'm not going to rewrite the arguments that I made when I voted for Blink (reread the original post), but reasons given were primarily because I found his reaction to the questioning to be suspicious since he essentially refused to give any type of answer and immediately clumped those who brought forward the question as scum (and since the person I got clumped with flipped scum, this is why I am in my current situation) and because I found Blink not voting me earlier in the game after he called the random questions scummy as out of character.

The very last quick point I will also make is that the push against me is pretty much solely under the belief that I am the werewolf. After the position I was in at the end of day 1, there is around a 0% chance that I would be the cult target seeing how the chance of a mislynch on me would have looked very high and still doesn't look unlikely seeing how I am technically at L-1.

Agreed on the assumption of conversion.

I have not found any hints to name in Banshis' posts, either. That doesn't mean what you did wasn't scummy; we lynched him because of what he did, and you did the same thing... Sooooo.....

Scum whiteknighting town exists, too... you're narrowing things more than they actually are.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

OKay Let Me Ask A Different Question.. What One Of You Is Schuyler?

-vote Light_Yagami

The only possibility of wanting to know people's name, especially literally asking who is X, is that you're a Minion.

It Not Outing Shit..

Yes, So I Can Get To The Bottom Of Something..

Incorrect Me Doing This Is An Attempt To Find The Scum.. That Im Pretty Positive Ive Already Found..

Uuuuh.... do I really need to explain how night actions and roles have some kind of... link....

[Light_Yagami]

-vote Light_Yagami

The only possibility of wanting to know people's name, especially literally asking who is X, is that you're a Minion.


Uuuuh.... do I really need to explain how night actions and roles have some kind of... link....

Yes So Do PPLs Reactions To What I Say I Kindly Ask You To Remove Your Vote From Me.. I Have No Problem Giving My Night Action And Who Visited My Target Hence The Names Requirement. That I Request You All Comply With..

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes So Do PPLs Reactions To What I Say I Kindly Ask You To Remove Your Vote From Me.. I Have No Problem Giving My Night Action And Who Visited My Target Hence The Names Requirement. That I Request You All Comply With..

Elaborate, please. I don't understand what your words are referring to lol

[Light_Yagami]

Walks Into Town Carrying A Pair Of Binoculars

Elaborate, please. I don't understand what your words are referring to lol

This Is What Im Referring..

[Light_Yagami]

Again Name Dropping Is More Pro-Town Now Then Anything Else ATM..

[Light_Yagami]

I Saw Who Visited My Target LN That Persons Name Is Schuyler

[blinkskater]

I Saw Who Visited My Target LN That Persons Name Is Schuyler

You only got a name?

[Light_Yagami]

You only got a name?

Correct..

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This Is What Im Referring..

.... why the fuck did you claim...

Any sane TPR wouldn't claim, because it would tell scum to not convert them (and therefore waste a night).
Any sane scum wouldn't claim... because they're scum lol.

I honestly don't think you'd have made that up alone. Therefore,

-vote unvote

But it's still bad.

[Light_Yagami]

.... why the fuck did you claim...

Any sane TPR wouldn't claim, because it would tell scum to not convert them (and therefore waste a night).
Any sane scum wouldn't claim... because they're scum lol.

I honestly don't think you'd have made that up alone. Therefore,

-vote unvote

But it's still bad.

Well Who Ever Said I Was Sane?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Well Who Ever Said I Was Sane?

[blinkskater]

Correct..

Only 1 name?

[blinkskater]

.... why the fuck did you claim...

Any sane TPR wouldn't claim, because it would tell scum to not convert them (and therefore waste a night).
Any sane scum wouldn't claim... because they're scum lol.

I honestly don't think you'd have made that up alone. Therefore,

-vote unvote

But it's still bad.

Its not tho, it furthers my theory...

[Light_Yagami]

Only 1 name?

Correct..

[Light_Yagami]

Its not tho, it furthers my theory...

I Appreciate Ur Vote Of Confidence..

[Light_Yagami]

The Fact Blink Is Trying To Scum Paint What Im Doing Makes Me Suspect He Was Converted LN

[blinkskater]

I believe i successfully lured the werewolf into trying to convert me due to my wifom, i believe yagami's claim because he pretty much hardclaimed lookout with his first post. Yagamis a straight up kind of guy and i don't see him pulling this as a scum. Therefore this schulyer character is likley the werewolf.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

-vote Auckmid

Gonna put my vote back there, it's the most productive thing atm.

[blinkskater]

The Fact Blink Is Trying To Scum Paint What Im Doing Makes Me Suspect He Was Converted LN

Hey if i was trying to scum paint you you'd have been lynched already my friend.

[blinkskater]

I Appreciate Ur Vote Of Confidence..

Read my post you Monchi-chi

[naz]

Naz werewolf and minion dont know each other so this is shit.

but it was so obvious he was scum.......

[naz]

Because based on overall scumness like i based my lynch off day 1. This slot is also scum.

what slot? you?

[naz]

Even if it is, all of the TPRs will get revealed if they answer this request, allowing for guaranteed cults on future nights. If you want to give everyone a chance to reveal whether or not they received feedback last night, go for it. I am obviously not going to answer what my N1 action was.

Unless this is just a horribly worded request for night feedback, which I did not receive last night.

i literally want to put my vote on you just for this but you're already at L-2
going to finish reading the thread first to make sure i'm certain first

[naz]

At the cost of EoD information, which we REALLY needed?

What information since scums didn't know who each other were? HMMM???

[blinkskater]

What information since scums didn't know who each other were? HMMM???

Tbh that just sounds like town MM he cant fake that as scum lol

[blinkskater]

what slot? you?

No auck lol,

[blinkskater]

But i do agree with you naz there wasnt anymore information that could have been gained.

Did you read Aucks wall?

He was trying to justify his intentions being different then Banshis because he flipped scum. They were literally preaching the same ideology.

[naz]

ol god auckmid's long ass post is so long, i can't reply to it on mobile - there are certain parts i want to highlight and reply to and it is such a pain in the ass on my phone. i'll be back later this afternoon to reply to it, i'm going to teach yoga here in a bit and then have other things to take care of

after his long post i'm like 75% scum leaning him still, but it might change when i sit down and start to type out my arguments and see if they make sense.

i'm going to reread day 1

starting to get a bad feeling about arsonist; hes been under the radar and town has been setting up lynches for him to not contribute much

-vote arsonist