S-FM 207 Island Conflict

[Kovath]

Spruance:

Such an odd way to agree with something.

Everyone could assume this, so in reality it just clogs/distracts the thread. Why post this?

I don't mind that he is actually being mature and commenting in a better way, compared to his usual play of "if you don't agree with me I don't like you."

Spoke too soon. This is probably Town, scum wouldn't vote like this to stand out.

I still don't like the "searching for slips" aspect. You can't expect slips to come TO YOU, you have to encourage conversation to GET THEM.

that one scum-read shocks me. I'm shocked you have me as town though, doesn't feel right.

Using the only 'slip' he finds to encourage a lynch. Not a good style, but nonetheless feels town motivated.

You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work.

What is the value of this post?

Leaning town for Spruance.

You point out a lot of oddities in Spruance's posts - Do you think these are just washed-out by his meta, or do you believe that the town motivation you see elsewhere (evidently the NU vote and the later pursuing of Eggy for a 'scum slip') outweighs them?

A lot of these comments have a kind of coaching vibe - For the example the "You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work." and "You can't expect slips to come TO YOU, you have to encourage conversation to GET THEM." This is related to the above questions, but do you derive any alignment tells at all from feeling that you have to comment like this?

(Suboptimal town play can be so or scum play - if you were proceeding through his ISO sequentially, it feels to me like you gave him the townread off his NU vote and simply went forward looking at the rest of his play from that light. Does taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture again give you a different view at all?)

"I don't mind that he is actually being mature and commenting in a better way": Do you get any alignment tells from this? Do you think this is motivated by a changing alignment or by evolving playstyle?

because he scum slipped lmao

On this Spruance quote you comment the following: "Using the only 'slip' he finds to encourage a lynch. Not a good style, but nonetheless feels town motivated." Can you explain the town motivation? Why do you think it is more compelling than a scum motivation in tunneling on a slip to avoid deeper reads or to justify a mislynch? I don't see why this scum possibility can be so easily discarded, so it seems to me like you're doing what you said DB in not considering both town and scum motivation. Is this based off momentum from your earlier townread, like I mentioned earlier?

[Mesk514]

hopefully i die of old age before the rope kills me

[Mesk514]

also spruance, maybe you don't know this but I actually have a deep fear of Darkness when it comes to FM, i wouldn't pie him with a 10 foot pole wrapped with a condom... so him and i, are not buddies

[Mesk514]

I love how theres also so much Eggy speculation when he's said.... what?

[Mesk514]

""You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work."

I agree with Kovath on this point that MiniZed gives off a coaching vibe when it comes to this quote. Honestly I'm more inclined to believe that it is scum that would feel the need to coach someone... "You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them." to me just comes off as if you look hard enough you can find inconsistencies on reads and be able to work with them, which to me seems more like a scum thing to say rather than a town... why would town be coaching other town, it's not even confirmed spruance is confirmed, in fact he's pushing a 1 post person LOL

[Kovath]

Never Unlucky:

Brings up recent game. Most people would try to ignore it and play different in order to win, but the fact that he hasn't shows a bit.

I will say, however, that I do not approve of comparing yourself with how others play. It really DOESN'T WORK. That could be comparing RLVG with PLZLEAVEDUCKK (Random example to prove my point)

Interesting wording. You treat the mistake as more of a scum-slip by being so defensive.

Continuing to bring up the previous game, which I still feel means they are more likely to be town, but this is a very early impression. Also prompts others to contribute, lousy question but none the less.

I don't think this is scum saying this. IMO they wouldn't be so blatant and obvious about questions that could be interpreted as scum asking them, ESPECIALLY since they have the redemption mood.

Slight odd defense of themself by overreacting again to something understandable.

The vote is odd, too. I still feel like scum NU would have hopped on my train.

Town-lean. Like this slot ATM.

"You treat the mistake as more of a scum-slip by being so defensive": You leave this train of thought here, do you see any reason to push it or does your townread just outweigh? Unless I am grossly misinterpreting, your point was that a town would simply have said "Oh, I messed up here, I meant this" rather than his far more drastically apologetic reaction. This is an observation of scumminess you make; why don't you pull it out further?

"Lousy question but none the less": Is there anything that specifically differentiates this post from busywork in your mind?

"Odd defense" + "overreacting": Can you elaborate further on this? Is this a scummy point that you think is outweighed or does it feel townie to you?

What does it mean that you like this slot? As a town-lean, or that you like what he's contributed so far?

[Mesk514]

i'm gonna leave my vote here for now... could be like Calix in AI, never shows because scum

-vote RLVG

[Mesk514]

also spruance, maybe you don't know this but I actually have a deep fear of Darkness when it comes to FM, i wouldn't pie him with a 10 foot pole wrapped with a condom... so him and i, are not buddies

poke* goddamit i need to lay off the drugs

[Gyrlander]

I read both Unlucky and Spruance as town (Spruance more). Unlucky because I read some posts and things that he mentione didn't feel like scum. Spruance basically because repeating "scum slip lol" everytime... I don't expect a scum doing it because 1- You don't want to talk about scum slips when you are actually a scum. 2- If someone really scum-slipped it would be somehow your partner so you don't want to mention it x99 times.

Also, tomorrow I'm going to the beach so I'm afraid I won't meet the post-quota.

[Kovath]

Yo Mesk, have any comments in response to, for example, MiniZed's post #278 or other reads on you?

Or... any comments and reads at all from the past pages would do too.



Speaking of which, was there anything in particular about my "coaching" paragraph from #301 that got your attention over the rest of the post? I think I'm made clear my sensitivity and opinion toward potential buddying / assimilation with me, so I don't quite like that you chose to comment on it above most everything else.

[Mesk514]

Yo Mesk, have any comments in response to, for example, MiniZed's post #278 or other reads on you?

nah dude, i think I'm just gonna kick it day 1 and see where it brings me... probably death by night kill but I'm ready to take one for the team

[Kovath]

I read both Unlucky and Spruance as town (Spruance more). Unlucky because I read some posts and things that he mentione didn't feel like scum. Spruance basically because repeating "scum slip lol" everytime... I don't expect a scum doing it because 1- You don't want to talk about scum slips when you are actually a scum. 2- If someone really scum-slipped it would be somehow your partner so you don't want to mention it x99 times.

Also, tomorrow I'm going to the beach so I'm afraid I won't meet the post-quota.

Why do you so easily eliminate the possibility of him tunneling on a 'fake slip'? For one, many lynches based only on 'scum slips' end up being mislynches anyway, and the slip he's referring to is... not very substantial, to say the least.

[Gyrlander]

Meh, I can't imagine him taking the risk of following a fake slip just to get someone mislynched. It would make him look bad if he just keeps tunneling like a fucker.

[Kovath]

nah dude, i think I'm just gonna kick it day 1 and see where it brings me... probably death by night kill but I'm ready to take one for the team

Playing like this probably does not get you killed at night lol.

Meh, I can't imagine him taking the risk of following a fake slip just to get someone mislynched. It would make him look bad if he just keeps tunneling like a fucker.

Well, the slot in question, but eh, I suppose I understand your point.

I think it's interesting that quite a few people are coming out with townreads on Spruance + NU in particular. Not sure if that means anything, I'll think about it.

[Mesk514]

Playing like this probably does not get you killed at night lol.



Well, the slot in question, but eh, I suppose I understand your point.

I think it's interesting that quite a few people are coming out with townreads on Spruance + NU in particular. Not sure if that means anything, I'll think about it.

reread every post i've written and explain to me what the common element is, besides the lack of quality... then tery and tell me I'm scum you

[MiniZed]

i'm gonna leave my vote here for now... could be like Calix in AI, never shows because scum

-vote RLVG

You vote the person who hasn't spoken? I mean, how will that help in the slightest bit?

I just woke up, I'm gonna eat something then I'll respond to those posts Kovath.

[Mesk514]

You vote the person who hasn't spoken? I mean, how will that help in the slightest bit?

I just woke up, I'm gonna eat something then I'll respond to those posts Kovath.

Respect your elders Mr.

[MiniZed]

Respect your elders Mr.

Wait, is that how you answer questions? My bad, i totally forgot cooperation wasn't apart of FM anymore.

[Mesk514]

Wait, is that how you answer questions? My bad, i totally forgot cooperation wasn't apart of FM anymore.

i laugh at you.

[MiniZed]

You point out a lot of oddities in Spruance's posts - Do you think these are just washed-out by his meta, or do you believe that the town motivation you see elsewhere (evidently the NU vote and the later pursuing of Eggy for a 'scum slip') outweighs them?

A lot of these comments have a kind of coaching vibe - For the example the "You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work." and "You can't expect slips to come TO YOU, you have to encourage conversation to GET THEM." This is related to the above questions, but do you derive any alignment tells at all from feeling that you have to comment like this?

(Suboptimal town play can be so or scum play - if you were proceeding through his ISO sequentially, it feels to me like you gave him the townread off his NU vote and simply went forward looking at the rest of his play from that light. Does taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture again give you a different view at all?)

"I don't mind that he is actually being mature and commenting in a better way": Do you get any alignment tells from this? Do you think this is motivated by a changing alignment or by evolving playstyle?



On this Spruance quote you comment the following: "Using the only 'slip' he finds to encourage a lynch. Not a good style, but nonetheless feels town motivated." Can you explain the town motivation? Why do you think it is more compelling than a scum motivation in tunneling on a slip to avoid deeper reads or to justify a mislynch? I don't see why this scum possibility can be so easily discarded, so it seems to me like you're doing what you said DB in not considering both town and scum motivation. Is this based off momentum from your earlier townread, like I mentioned earlier?

I still think Spruance is town, based on some of the stupid comments he's done and the tone of how he talks. Sure, you could say he plays similar every time. You could also say that he's always town, so I try to balance it out in terms of points. I do think he is more town than scum. I have been trying to put more of a effort in to read players based on their play (including trolls)

I don't understand. Are you telling me that coaching is a BAD thing? Unless you are naturally assuming me and Spruance are scum, and that i'm trying to get him to cooperate so that he doesn't get lynched. If this is how you feel, why do you think i did it so openly? If you don't think we are scum together, why do you think scum would try to coach other towns? I cannot guarentee that he is town, sure, but if he IS town why wouldn't I try to get him to contribute? I can tell you now, this wouldn't be the first time i've 'coached' someone, and I believe it can help others contribute. So, don't really know why you say I'm commenting in a weird way. Do you think coaching is a scum-tell? If so, why would scum try to coach town?

I don't know why you base it entirely on the NU vote, but it does credit him more. The vote shows that he isn't going to jump on either of the popular trains and go against what he thinks, making him stand out more which to me doesn't feel like a scum play in particular. If you want to say why it's more scum then town, go for it, but I do not understand what you mean by the "bigger picture".

Putting some more effort in doesn't even feel like a scum-tell for me, especially for Spruance. He literally said "lurking is working for scum, they often don't get PL'd anymore". I don't think Spruance would be clever enough to go against what he has said, but perhaps I am wrong. My read isn't solid, and it is still early game right now and i haven't been 100%.

I haven't 'discarded' it, just because I town-read him now does NOT mean that i won't. You seem to be highly against specific reads, as if you are really determined to lynch them. Mind responding to the other cases I made? Or were these the only ones that stuck out? I don't believe scum!Spruance would try to lead a Lynch, LMAO. Even though it's a dull effort at best, do you consider what he was trying to do as a scum-list? Because trust me Kovath, I am certainly considering both sides but this vote is going nowhere. His justification sucks, but as I said it's not scum. Feel free to refute this, because all i'm seeing is WAY TOO NEUTRAL of an opinion. I have yet to hear your opinion, only that you obviously seem to want him lynched by pointing out my read on him.

[MiniZed]

i laugh at you.

Feeling is definitely mutual. Good effort btw.

[MiniZed]

"You treat the mistake as more of a scum-slip by being so defensive": You leave this train of thought here, do you see any reason to push it or does your townread just outweigh? Unless I am grossly misinterpreting, your point was that a town would simply have said "Oh, I messed up here, I meant this" rather than his far more drastically apologetic reaction. This is an observation of scumminess you make; why don't you pull it out further?

"Lousy question but none the less": Is there anything that specifically differentiates this post from busywork in your mind?

"Odd defense" + "overreacting": Can you elaborate further on this? Is this a scummy point that you think is outweighed or does it feel townie to you?

What does it mean that you like this slot? As a town-lean, or that you like what he's contributed so far?

Sure, I definitely could consider this suspicious, as was why i left this here. My initial thought process was for NU to explain WHY they said it like that, but as I'm not feeling great i wasn't going to do much prompting. You are certainly welcome to ask them why they did it if you feel necessary. My answer for not pushing is because I didn't have a ton of energy, whether that's a shit reason or not it's the only explanation i've got other then waiting to see if they would reply.

from busywork? Don't quite see what you're asking here.

This post in particular doesn't feel town. I don't see why, in such a light situation, that they needed to react with such expression. I'd love to hear why they said this, as it would be a good chance for them to respond to the first post as well.

Feels different from last game. Last game they were way too aggressive and tried to discredit me entirely, which they then ended up flipping scum.

[Kovath]

I still think Spruance is town, based on some of the stupid comments he's done and the tone of how he talks. Sure, you could say he plays similar every time. You could also say that he's always town, so I try to balance it out in terms of points. I do think he is more town than scum. I have been trying to put more of a effort in to read players based on their play (including trolls)

I don't understand. Are you telling me that coaching is a BAD thing? Unless you are naturally assuming me and Spruance are scum, and that i'm trying to get him to cooperate so that he doesn't get lynched. If this is how you feel, why do you think i did it so openly? If you don't think we are scum together, why do you think scum would try to coach other towns? I cannot guarentee that he is town, sure, but if he IS town why wouldn't I try to get him to contribute? I can tell you now, this wouldn't be the first time i've 'coached' someone, and I believe it can help others contribute. So, don't really know why you say I'm commenting in a weird way. Do you think coaching is a scum-tell? If so, why would scum try to coach town?

I don't know why you base it entirely on the NU vote, but it does credit him more. The vote shows that he isn't going to jump on either of the popular trains and go against what he thinks, making him stand out more which to me doesn't feel like a scum play in particular. If you want to say why it's more scum then town, go for it, but I do not understand what you mean by the "bigger picture".

Putting some more effort in doesn't even feel like a scum-tell for me, especially for Spruance. He literally said "lurking is working for scum, they often don't get PL'd anymore". I don't think Spruance would be clever enough to go against what he has said, but perhaps I am wrong. My read isn't solid, and it is still early game right now and i haven't been 100%.

I haven't 'discarded' it, just because I town-read him now does NOT mean that i won't. You seem to be highly against specific reads, as if you are really determined to lynch them. Mind responding to the other cases I made? Or were these the only ones that stuck out? I don't believe scum!Spruance would try to lead a Lynch, LMAO. Even though it's a dull effort at best, do you consider what he was trying to do as a scum-list? Because trust me Kovath, I am certainly considering both sides but this vote is going nowhere. His justification sucks, but as I said it's not scum. Feel free to refute this, because all i'm seeing is WAY TOO NEUTRAL of an opinion. I have yet to hear your opinion, only that you obviously seem to want him lynched by pointing out my read on him.

Ok.

No, I didn't say anything about the objective towniness or scumminness coaching. I made the comment because you came in and made coaching-vibe comments, so I questioned whether you derived anything in terms of his alignment from commenting, or having to comment, on those things, since you did quite a bit of it (and I don't really remember you doing so in prior games, correct me if wrong). Also, it's perfectly explainable why scum might coach shitty towns - it makes the scum seem "townier" on the surface while the coached person either a) ignores the coach and remains shitty for the town or b) the coached player might improve slightly while acquiring a slight town bias toward the person advising them. It's not like scum can't say shit like "don't do pre-flips!". Still, I'm not decided on which alignment read, if any, I'm giving for this coaching vibe, which is why I'm trying to dig in deeper to what you're thinking. The "coaching is scummy!" spiel is more what Mesk posted recently, and you might have conflated my specific question with her point.

The only explicitly townie stuff I got from your analysis was the NU vote and the motivation thing on the mislynch - if you have any other reasons to townread him, you didn't share them, while on the other hand you point out a lot of things such as "odd", "you don't like", or "doesn't feel right" for example. This is what I mean by the bigger picture: you highlight many things like that, yet I only see two explicit townread justifications that I'm not too strongly agreeing with myself and instead focus more on the coachy-thing, for instance. As it seems you did indeed proceed sequentially in your ISO, I again tried to dig deeper as to what might have been going on: whether you got a town vibe from your NU and it (along with your other townread reasons, whatever they may be) colored the rest of your following analysis.

You put in the effort to comment on the change in his tone of answers, so I wanted to know if it actually had any value to you for reading him. Your answer indicates that you commented on it because... you liked it from a "how to play the game politely" standpoint, I guess?

My point was that you ping DB for not pointing out potential motivation from the other alignment in question - I was asking if you are doing the same here. In fact, I ask after the town motivation and your response is "I don't believe scum!Spruance would try to lead a Lynch, LMAO". That explains, to some degree, why you don't think it's scummy, but it doesn't explain for me why you think it is townie either, since you said "I see town motivation here." Besides, who says he's trying to lead an actual ML as scum? It could just be an excuse to park his vote and not have to vote for a scummate either.

Instead, you're turning this paragraph into an attack on me: "only that you obviously seem to want him lynched by pointing out my read on him." No, I haven't stated an overall opinion on Spruance yet as I just agreed. I am trying to dissect YOUR read on Spruance and understand more of the details going on behind the scenes by asking clarifying / piercing questions about what was going in your mind, how did you weigh this or that, could you explain this part of your thought process more. There are certain incongruities in your read that I am trying to resolve. This will help me read YOU, since this is the main post of content you've produced so far in relation with other slots. If you reread my earlier post carefully, you'll see that there's actually no pressure from it on Spruance on all, which refutes the narrative that I'm trying to get Spruance lynched.

Why are you flipping my post in order to try and counter-push me? Does my asking for more details on your read scream "I'm trying to mislynch Spruance!!!" that badly to you?

(Also, yes, I chose Never Unlucky and Spruance to hone in on because the other ones didn't have much of interest for me to comment on imo).

[Iced_Monopoly]

Amendment to rules

Current rule: A succesful lynch will not end the day, it will only lock the thread.
Ammended rule: A succesful lynch will not end the day unless it occurs before half the day has elapsed (ie 24 hours), else the thread will be locked.

Reason: Game days will always start at 8am AEST as its the most convenient timezone crossover for players/host. Late game if lynching is quick and decsisive, nobody wants to wait the full 48hours to continue

[MiniZed]

I'm not trying to flip your post, if that's what you think i'm doing you clearly didn't outline your specific message well enough for me to understand. I was more asking for your opinion, because as I did share mine, and you commented on it, I did not notice your opinion. That is why I asked again.

[Kovath]

Sure, I definitely could consider this suspicious, as was why i left this here. My initial thought process was for NU to explain WHY they said it like that, but as I'm not feeling great i wasn't going to do much prompting. You are certainly welcome to ask them why they did it if you feel necessary. My answer for not pushing is because I didn't have a ton of energy, whether that's a shit reason or not it's the only explanation i've got other then waiting to see if they would reply.

from busywork? Don't quite see what you're asking here.

This post in particular doesn't feel town. I don't see why, in such a light situation, that they needed to react with such expression. I'd love to hear why they said this, as it would be a good chance for them to respond to the first post as well.

Feels different from last game. Last game they were way too aggressive and tried to discredit me entirely, which they then ended up flipping scum.

You want me to do it for you? Uhmm...

Busywork is stuff that people can do to make themselves seem useful while not actually doing anything substantive. Case in point, asking someone for reads, so I asked if there was anything specific about that post or his play that suggests to you that this wasn't just busywork. Perhaps you just think the town narrative is just so much stronger overall? That's a potential answer, there are several.

Another thing to ask, then.

This is a fair point.

[Kovath]

I'm not trying to flip your post, if that's what you think i'm doing you clearly didn't outline your specific message well enough for me to understand. I was more asking for your opinion, because as I did share mine, and you commented on it, I did not notice your opinion. That is why I asked again.

Well, you specifically said that it was obvious that I was trying to push a lynch on Spruance...

I also didn't have any particular message to present one way or another, I wanted you to explain more specific details in your reads, especially ones that I thought deserved attention or seemed incongruous.

I am hard-null on Spruance, I haven't seen much compelling evidence in favor of either a town or scum narrative; I've kinda hinted at this through my questioning and some statements I dropped in there.

Plus I think there are better lynches for today.

[MiniZed]

Meh, i didn't mean to say that you could do it. I was thinking you COULD have done it when i wasn't around if you felt like it was needed, but after my post I didn't feel inclined to capitalize on any of the posts at that second

[MiniZed]

Well, you specifically said that it was obvious that I was trying to push a lynch on Spruance...

I also didn't have any particular message to present one way or another, I wanted you to explain more specific details in your reads, especially ones that I thought deserved attention or seemed incongruous.

I am hard-null on Spruance, I haven't seen much compelling evidence in favor of either a town or scum narrative; I've kinda hinted at this through my questioning and some statements I dropped in there.

Plus I think there are better lynches for today.

I felt like you were trying to push his lynch when it was one of the only reads you spoke about, and most of what you said seemed to disagree with my town-read. That was before you said that you didn't have much to say about the other reads, which can be understandable.

Sorry if i didn't explain myself at the time, not trying to make excuses but it ended up happening anyways.

I'm trying to be more flexible with my reads, I often consider all the trolls/shit posters scum throughout the game, when the reality is that most of them really aren't. I wouldn't say that this has more of an impact on my reads, but it does help me look at it from their perspective more compared to mine and everyone else looking at them.

Have you said who you prefer? If not, might be a good time now.

[Kovath]

I originally had a town lean on Never Unlucky from the very early sequence - however imo his post quality has dropped since he got several townreads.

Looking at a specific post, for example:

Man, Unknown, I really liked your post. I take back saying you weren't a major contributor to town.

I do have some questions/concerns though.

1. Why are you smurfing?

2. I do not agree with one point you made on Kovath. I think that he's actually been drawing attention to useless-LOOKING posts and made some very legitimate points about them (DarknessB's major misrep).

3. Is being defensive AI iyo?

NU generally isn't shy about digging into posts, yet in regards to yours he agrees with everything, including the stuff pointed out about himself and not answering the questions raised? Maybe because he still got townread for it? Instead the only question he really asks is to clarify something in support of me - and calling DB's misrep "major" isn't quite accurate in my opinion, I personally thought it was minor until DB raised a huge convo on it and made it a bigger issue - but the "major" part is coming from hindsight so that doesn't really ping me.

Looking through his recent ISO, he's mainly done the setup questions, asking some "easy" questions, and generally avoiding slot-specific discussion unless it involves him:

I understand where you're coming from with your Neutral read on me. But, seeing as I got lynched D1 as scum in Politico a couple of days ago, why would I base my scum play on WIFOM?

Then again, the answer to this question would be WIFOM too.

Though earlier there was this:

Also, I'm liking Darkness's posts so far. I like the fact that he/she/it had original comments on everyone's posts, including mine. I was surprised and happy that this player did not copy Calix's concerns on my setup specs questions.

But he never really expanded or evolved this, even for instance after that major interaction between myself and DB despite clearly reading it, as evidence by #2 in the first post of his I've quoted here.

All in all, there's a general aura of someone who has become rather complacent after getting townread by people - he's content to drift by on meager contributions. I'm currently undecided on which alignment I think this tends to for him, as town can do this too (me in QT?), but it's definitely weakened my initial town feelings about him.

[Kovath]

Meh, i didn't mean to say that you could do it. I was thinking you COULD have done it when i wasn't around if you felt like it was needed, but after my post I didn't feel inclined to capitalize on any of the posts at that second

I'd be a bit hypocritical of me to criticize this, heh... it's not an important point so I don't think there's any point to pursue it more.

I felt like you were trying to push his lynch when it was one of the only reads you spoke about, and most of what you said seemed to disagree with my town-read. That was before you said that you didn't have much to say about the other reads, which can be understandable.

Sorry if i didn't explain myself at the time, not trying to make excuses but it ended up happening anyways.

I'm trying to be more flexible with my reads, I often consider all the trolls/shit posters scum throughout the game, when the reality is that most of them really aren't. I wouldn't say that this has more of an impact on my reads, but it does help me look at it from their perspective more compared to mine and everyone else looking at them.

Have you said who you prefer? If not, might be a good time now.

Well, I don't townread him as I said - but if any of that was incorporated in my big post, it was through subtle bias and not intended. I was drawing straight from what you said: your comments about "odd" and "not feeling right" in contrast with your townread. Characterizing me as trying to drive a lynch on Spruance in this way is the surface level view of what I was trying to do - not correct but easy to conclude, if that makes sense.

I'll try to coalesce my thoughts more in the morning, sleeping soon. I'll see if there's any questions left I felt you didn't answer :P

-

DB is atm the main one, I'll need to look closer again at some of the other posters tomorrow.

[Eggy]

Okay guys Im sorry for being afk. I was busy today. I read through everything and will make a reads list tomorrow when I wake up( I am extremely tired and am going to go to sleep after I make this post) I am going to try my best to meet my post quota before the day ends(shouldnt be so hard)

Something that is really striking me as odd is spruance claim I scum slipped? And he did not really explain why he thought so? All I understood from him is that he thinks im scum because I did not capitolize the K in kovath. (Again if I am missing soomething I apologize.) I find his confidence based off the one post I made, which was basically flugg and a RNG vote, enough to make me the only scum in his eyes.

[Eggy]

Currently I am town reading calix and kovath and mesk (obviously ) I will give my scum reads when Iam up tmrw. Also being as calox really impressed me with her finding scum the first day last game I played with her, I am going to sort of sheep her(dont hate me please) and follow her lead again.

-vote DarknessB

[Calix]

Mesk514

Not gonna lie, I mostly skimmed over the paragraph wars between Kovath/ MiniZed because I just woke up and it's early but it just looked like Kovath was getting MiniZed to expand further on reads that he disagreed with. If there's anything AI that either of them feel like I should be paying attention to then they should speak up about that now.

So I am just going to discuss Mesk. Speaking of that, @Eggy what makes you town-read her from her posts, exactly? @DarknessB should also expand on his Mesk read.

hopefully i die of old age before the rope kills me

Flippant attitude towards being lynched. This is similar to her Return to Normalcy play. (where she was scum)

also spruance, maybe you don't know this but I actually have a deep fear of Darkness when it comes to FM, i wouldn't pie him with a 10 foot pole wrapped with a condom... so him and i, are not buddies

This comment is interesting because it reveals that she has read the accusation that DB and herself are in a scum team. The fact that she prioritises making this comment over legitimately refuting the points against her (did she even respond to the criticisms of the post that garnered her so much attention in the first place...?) reeks of evasion.

I love how theres also so much Eggy speculation when he's said.... what?

Draws attention to Eggy's one post...for reasons. Doesn't use this to make a point against anyone or form reads. Has she actually given any of her own since the RVS?

""You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work."

I agree with Kovath on this point that MiniZed gives off a coaching vibe when it comes to this quote. Honestly I'm more inclined to believe that it is scum that would feel the need to coach someone... "You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them." to me just comes off as if you look hard enough you can find inconsistencies on reads and be able to work with them, which to me seems more like a scum thing to say rather than a town... why would town be coaching other town, it's not even confirmed spruance is confirmed, in fact he's pushing a 1 post person LOL

At this point in time, MiniZed was one of the more likely trains to happen (and it's still the leading train after DB) so that is worth noting. Mostly cribs on Kovath's reasoning too and implies that she suspects MiniZed.

"it's not even confirmed spruance is confirmed" does not sit well with me. I can't really explain it but it sounds like she expects him to flip town...but she has not actually stated a read on Spruance one way or the other. I just get the vibe that Mesk can differentiate the town from the non-towns more easily than we can.

i'm gonna leave my vote here for now... could be like Calix in AI, never shows because scum

-vote RLVG

...but then she votes for an AFKer right after implying a scum-read on MiniZed? This I find harder to explain so well. An obvious explanation is that scum!Mesk is finding it hard to scum-hunt as she knows who most of the scum are (assuming mafia here) and is thus going for a target who is unable to retaliate. This would also explain why she borrowed Kovath's reasoning instead of using her own - it means she does not have to fabricate her own reads and also increases the possibility of assimilation happening.

Although I am uncertain on why Mesk wouldn't just hop on the MiniZed train. Perhaps she seeks to risk confronting him and having to explain further her read on him.

nah dude, i think I'm just gonna kick it day 1 and see where it brings me... probably death by night kill but I'm ready to take one for the team

Absurd level of confidence in being night-killed. Again, similar to the one scum game she even has on this site.

reread every post i've written and explain to me what the common element is, besides the lack of quality... then tery and tell me I'm scum you

You're scum, mate.

[Mesk514]

[CENTER]
Flippant attitude towards being lynched. This is similar to her Return to Normalcy play. (where she was scum)

LOLLOLLOLLOLOLOLOLOL, honey... i'm laughing at you so hard right now.. you totally must be scum... you seriously looked into everything, made twisted it seem like i had malicious intentions but missed the one thing that i've literally claimed my role in like every post.....

[Mesk514]

Currently I am town reading calix and kovath and mesk (obviously ) I will give my scum reads when Iam up tmrw. Also being as calox really impressed me with her finding scum the first day last game I played with her, I am going to sort of sheep her(dont hate me please) and follow her lead again.

-vote DarknessB

*says he'll follow calix, when calix says I'm scum but he says I'm town.... Votes Darkness*

lol okay... interesting

please explain your logic?

[Mesk514]

lolololol before someone goes crazy about that question mark

!!!!!*******8

[Calix]

LOLLOLLOLLOLOLOLOLOL, honey... i'm laughing at you so hard right now.. you totally must be scum... you seriously looked into everything, made twisted it seem like i had malicious intentions but missed the one thing that i've literally claimed my role in like every post.....

"You must be scum because you scum-read me. I won't respond to any of the points against me nor will I explain how I am helping the town nor will I actually contribute, but I'll claim to have soft-claimed my role so that people will fuck off and not try to lynch me."

I don't give a fuck about your role. If you're shitizen, you're dead. If you're claiming anything less than a 100% confirmed town role, you're also dead because you're not acting like one at all...similar to Normalcy, gee golly gosh.

Think I'm going to give a pass for that shit twice?

*says he'll follow calix, when calix says I'm scum but he says I'm town.... Votes Darkness*

lol okay... interesting

please explain your logic?

No idea what you are even getting at here. I voted for DB so he's obviously referring to sheeping that...?

You make it sound like his logic is off because he doesn't agree that you are scum either.

[Mesk514]

"You must be scum because you scum-read me. I won't respond to any of the points against me nor will I explain how I am helping the town nor will I actually contribute, but I'll claim to have soft-claimed my role so that people will fuck off and not try to lynch me."

I don't give a fuck about your role. If you're shitizen, you're dead. If you're claiming anything less than a 100% confirmed town role, you're also dead because you're not acting like one at all...similar to Normalcy, gee golly gosh.

Think I'm going to give a pass for that shit twice?



No idea what you are even getting at here. I voted for DB so he's obviously referring to sheeping that...?

You make it sound like his logic is off because he doesn't agree that you are scum either.

lol so Eggys random vote is allowed to just slide by with no explanation... thats okay, but my lack of random voting and participation is scummy...

talk about my attitude all you want and place it next to my only scum game which was my second FM game but at least everything i've said has somewhat made sense but your logic really doesn't...

this is clearly an attempt to push me since I haven't give a full read yet and everyone here associates lack of reads = scum

which by the way why the fuck would I give anyone a full on read at the beginning of the game, when the fuck have i ever done that?

[Calix]

lol so Eggys random vote is allowed to just slide by with no explanation... thats okay, but my lack of random voting and participation is scummy...

talk about my attitude all you want and place it next to my only scum game which was my second FM game but at least everything i've said has somewhat made sense but your logic really doesn't...

this is clearly an attempt to push me since I haven't give a full read yet and everyone here associates lack of reads = scum

which by the way why the fuck would I give anyone a full on read at the beginning of the game, when the fuck have i ever done that?

You're still using the "IF SOMEONE ELSE IS WORSE THEN MY BEHAVIOUR SHOULDN'T BE BROUGHT UP!" logic which is absolute shite. Put your head out of the gutter, if you'd be so kind.

Strong. Discrediting my logic but you won't actually counter the points. You are just confirming the accusations against you by refusing to counter them.

No shit.

I'm asking for reads now. I asked at the beginning of the game for the sake of conversation, otherwise not sure why you dredged that one up.

[Mesk514]

You're still using the "IF SOMEONE ELSE IS WORSE THEN MY BEHAVIOUR SHOULDN'T BE BROUGHT UP!" logic which is absolute shite. Put your head out of the gutter, if you'd be so kind.

Strong. Discrediting my logic but you won't actually counter the points. You are just confirming the accusations against you by refusing to counter them.

No shit.

I'm asking for reads now. I asked at the beginning of the game for the sake of conversation, otherwise not sure why you dredged that one up.

nah i'll pass honestly, we can discuss tonight if we get there

[Calix]

nah i'll pass honestly, we can discuss tonight if we get there

I'm going off now. Post what you will...which will be nothing.

[MiniZed]

lol so Eggys random vote is allowed to just slide by with no explanation... thats okay, but my lack of random voting and participation is scummy...

talk about my attitude all you want and place it next to my only scum game which was my second FM game but at least everything i've said has somewhat made sense but your logic really doesn't...

this is clearly an attempt to push me since I haven't give a full read yet and everyone here associates lack of reads = scum

which by the way why the fuck would I give anyone a full on read at the beginning of the game, when the fuck have i ever done that?

feel like this is a slip. The first time you don't defend Eggy.

[Never Unlucky]

hopefully i die of old age before the rope kills me

Answer my questions..

[Never Unlucky]

Currently I am town reading calix and kovath and mesk (obviously ) I will give my scum reads when Iam up tmrw. Also being as calox really impressed me with her finding scum the first day last game I played with her, I am going to sort of sheep her(dont hate me please) and follow her lead again.

-vote DarknessB

You can't sheep someone because they impressed you in the past. What if that person you're sheeping has a different alignment?

Why are you town-reading Mesk? She's done nothing worthy of being town-read imo.

[Never Unlucky]

Never Unlucky:
Brings up recent game. Most people would try to ignore it and play different in order to win, but the fact that he hasn't shows a bit.

I will say, however, that I do not approve of comparing yourself with how others play. It really DOESN'T WORK. That could be comparing RLVG with PLZLEAVEDUCKK (Random example to prove my point)



Interesting wording. You treat the mistake as more of a scum-slip by being so defensive.



Continuing to bring up the previous game, which I still feel means they are more likely to be town, but this is a very early impression. Also prompts others to contribute, lousy question but none the less.



I don't think this is scum saying this. IMO they wouldn't be so blatant and obvious about questions that could be interpreted as scum asking them, ESPECIALLY since they have the redemption mood.



Slight odd defense of themself by overreacting again to something understandable.

The vote is odd, too. I still feel like scum NU would have hopped on my train.

Town-lean. Like this slot ATM.

Spruance:


Such an odd way to agree with something.



Everyone could assume this, so in reality it just clogs/distracts the thread. Why post this?



I don't mind that he is actually being mature and commenting in a better way, compared to his usual play of "if you don't agree with me I don't like you."



Spoke too soon. This is probably Town, scum wouldn't vote like this to stand out.



I still don't like the "searching for slips" aspect. You can't expect slips to come TO YOU, you have to encourage conversation to GET THEM.



that one scum-read shocks me. I'm shocked you have me as town though, doesn't feel right.



Using the only 'slip' he finds to encourage a lynch. Not a good style, but nonetheless feels town motivated.



You can always find inconsistencies, you just have to put effort in to find them. If they aren't there, then you're probably right, but saying someone always plays like town doesn't work.



What is the value of this post?

Leaning town for Spruance.

I don't care if my reads suck, if you say i didn't read, if you think I am too scummy, good for you. I'm not in a good position right now, and so I figured it would be best that I wrote this to avoid doing nothing. I'll be back.

1. I think I did that in Politico too though less. NAI, but nice remark.

2. -

3. I do not understand how being defensive makes you interpret that I think that my mistake was a scum-slip. Being defensive is my natural way of replying to mistakes (See AI).

4. Lousy question indeed, but I'm still watiting for its lousy answer @DarknessB .

5. You're using the "too scum to be scum" argument here. I was taught that this argument is invalid.

6. See 3.

As for your read on Spruance, you're basically using the "too dumb to be scum" argument. Paladin taught me that it is invalid.

[Calix]

Mesk's lack of a chainsaw with regards to Eggy is a notable change at the very least.

You can't sheep someone because they impressed you in the past. What if that person you're sheeping has a different alignment?

Why are you town-reading Mesk? She's done nothing worthy of being town-read imo.

He stated a town-read on me so I assume that is why he is following me.

Do you, personally, think I have a different alignment to Eggy? I can see you lurking in the thread so while I am here and kind of out of it still, any questions for me?

For your last post, I'm not sure wherever MiniZed is actually using "X is too scummy to be scum" as much as he is asking "why would scum do X" (where the latter is always the better option) so clarification would be good.

[Never Unlucky]

Mesk's lack of a chainsaw with regards to Eggy is a notable change at the very least.



He stated a town-read on me so I assume that is why he is following me.

Do you, personally, think I have a different alignment to Eggy? I can see you lurking in the thread so while I am here and kind of out of it still, any questions for me?

For your last post, I'm not sure wherever MiniZed is actually using "X is too scummy to be scum" as much as he is asking "why would scum do X" (where the latter is always the better option) so clarification would be good.

I do think you both share the Tribe alignment. I still think that justifying his sheeping with "X was right in the past" feels wrong (can sheeping even be justified?).

No, I do not have any non-setup spec questions for you. xD

[Calix]

I do think you both share the Tribe alignment. I still think that justifying his sheeping with "X was right in the past" feels wrong (can sheeping even be justified?).

No, I do not have any non-setup spec questions for you. xD

To go into theory spec for a moment, sheeping is good in the sense that it allows for larger trains to form, thus there is more pressure on the target. That's applicable to larger games more so than a 10-player one, but similar logic applies. And who someone is willing to sheep onto can also be telling. (see S-FM Guns and Hookers for one example of this paying off )

Guess I shall take my leave until the evening then. If everyone else turns up like they did yesterday, it should be fun

[Calix]

Actually wait, do you have legitimate reads now? ;) I'd work on those, lol.