S-FM 193: Final Fantasy VII

[DarknessB]

Fake vote?

The player's name is SuperJack, not "SJ". Your vote did not register for that reason.

[pisskop]

ffs

[Gyrlander]

I'll actually unvote so ppl who want to vote him and leave can do so. I Am 2 people and I'm not leaving until day ends.

-unvote

[Saik0Shinigami]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

• Calix has voted SJ and I believe would vote the other two.
• I would vote any of the three.
• Banana has voted MZ and SJ -- not sure her view on POD.
• HeadShrinker seems intent on MZ or me.
• Saik0 seems more keen on MZ or maybe POD, but not on SJ.
• Gyrlander seems like he would vote POD, but reluctant on MZ or SJ.

In other words, it's a mess.

I'm more for PoD right now, can be swayed to MZ. I'm not set for SJ... You made a point, but I'm not sure I quite see it as a sound choice.

SJ has been rp'ing 99% of this from how I read it... I would like a serious post before night. if that doesn't happen I could be persuaded to vote SJ but that would be a hard sell on my end.

[Gyrlander]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

[Calix]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

That's OGC.

[DarknessB]

Spamming SJ's Skype isn't allowed, no?

Ping players is a host thing to do, not another player thing to do. Can ask Shifty if you want.

[Calix]

Ping players is a host thing to do, not another player thing to do. Can ask Shifty if you want.

SJ hasn't been inactive though. He's just not around. Players do have lives outside of the game.

[DarknessB]

SJ hasn't been inactive though. He's just not around. Players do have lives outside of the game.

He hasn't been inactive by the very minimal 5 post standard that we've all hit but Excalibur, but he hasn't been particularly active this game either.

[pisskop]

Its too late to be trying to get claims or whatever you guys arr trying to do. idk why its such a common thing to do to try to play chicken with the deadline

[MattZed]

Let me be more explicit:

I want to 1v1 BananaCucho right here, right now. Lynch her, or lynch me.

Also your logic about 'informative' flips is bullshit. Any town lynch = little information because you cannot form associations as easily. ANY scum lynch gives us information as to who voted, distanced, potentially bussed, buddied, etc. You should NOT lynch on Day 1 just to get information and your focus on this is not only flawed but scummy. (you talk about clearing yourself if she's scum? Why is that a reason important enough for you to mention? You're already forming pre-flip associations?)

What you've said here is absolutely false; a town flip from Banana or myself would not be "little information." Regardless of whether or not you agree with me on my Banana scumread, if either of us flipped town, your opinion of the other would change. That's because you have information. If I flip town, then you know Banana spent the whole day painting town as scum and refusing to consider all other options. Notice how even now she's refusing to consider non-me votes other than for the purpose of getting a lynch off. If Banana flips town, then her words become that of a confirmed town, and I get automatic HUGE suspicion leading her lynch train this hard.

You either believe that Banana and I are both town, or that at least one of us isn't. Lynch both of us, the one you find scummier first, and you've either killed two town or you killed at least one scum. But the thing is, do you really believe you'd be killing two town?

[DarknessB]

Its too late to be trying to get claims or whatever you guys arr trying to do. idk why its such a common thing to do to try to play chicken with the deadline

Might as well cast your vote for SuperJack then. Then we'd need one more locked in and Gyrlander can hammer at any time.

[Calix]

Let me be more explicit:

I want to 1v1 BananaCucho right here, right now. Lynch her, or lynch me.


What you've said here is absolutely false; a town flip from Banana or myself would not be "little information." Regardless of whether or not you agree with me on my Banana scumread, if either of us flipped town, your opinion of the other would change. That's because you have information. If I flip town, then you know Banana spent the whole day painting town as scum and refusing to consider all other options. Notice how even now she's refusing to consider non-me votes other than for the purpose of getting a lynch off. If Banana flips town, then her words become that of a confirmed town, and I get automatic HUGE suspicion leading her lynch train this hard.

You either believe that Banana and I are both town, or that at least one of us isn't. Lynch both of us, the one you find scummier first, and you've either killed two town or you killed at least one scum. But the thing is, do you really believe you'd be killing two town?

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.

[pisskop]

Im really unhappy with a lynch on a sj when theres simply more promising lynches that provide more useful analysis and the players have shown even less use than SJ.

[pisskop]

-vote superjack

[Calix]

Im really unhappy with a lynch on a sj when theres simply more promising lynches that provide more useful analysis and the players have shown even less use than SJ.

You're the person who said that SJ isn't the sort of player that you'd want at LYLO - what's with this change of heart?

[MattZed]

@Saik0Shinigami , I haven't trusted DarknessB for a long time. The reason I asked him to ISO Banana is because I was already suspicious of Banana (note: I had already voted her then) and wanted to see if he was truly on her side or just wasn't reading Gyrlander too carefully. When he gave Banana's ISO with a Null/Town read, I stopped trusting him at all. But I haven't been kicking up dirt on his ISO because he's not my main scumread right now; BananaCucho is. He would only be guilty by association, and thus it only makes sense to go after him once my scumread actually flips scum.

[DarknessB]

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.

Personally, I feel like this whole thing is bad blood carrying over from the Matrix game given the similar early game dynamics between the two. Given where the votes stand, I doubt it's going to be end up being a 1v1 between MattZed and Banana. I also don't like the fact that MattZed refuses to give other scum reads among the group currently being considered: SJ and POD.

[DarknessB]

@Saik0Shinigami , I haven't trusted DarknessB for a long time. The reason I asked him to ISO Banana is because I was already suspicious of Banana (note: I had already voted her then) and wanted to see if he was truly on her side or just wasn't reading Gyrlander too carefully. When he gave Banana's ISO with a Null/Town read, I stopped trusting him at all. But I haven't been kicking up dirt on his ISO because he's not my main scumread right now; BananaCucho is. He would only be guilty by association, and thus it only makes sense to go after him once my scumread actually flips scum.

Maybe it's not the right time for it, but you never responded to my early game ISO of Gyrlander where I went through the first 200 posts of the game and didn't find anything Town-leaning or contributory.

[Calix]

MattZed/ Banana is 100% something that should be considered TOMORROW.

[DarknessB]

Also, this has officially become the pre-flip associate Darkness game. Depending on who you ask, I'm scum with MattZed, am I scum with Banana, or maybe someone has a third option they'd like to raise? I'm also always the second person in the group with the primary scumread being on the other person. Seriously, guys?

[MattZed]

That assumes that your interactions with Banana are V/W and not V/V or W/W. You're trying the push the former but I see no reason why I should think that.

Tunneling is a thing, as you know perfectly well. It's not as set in stone as you're making it out to be. Stop pushing a narrative based on pre-flip associations as a reason to lynch someone.

Misrep. I have been pushing Banana's lynch because she's repeatedly distorted the truth in a manner that reveals she's more intent on painting people as scum than on trying to figure out people's alignment. She's scum-motivated, and when someone with this much effort into the game displays that kind of scum-motivation, I try to kill them.

I've been bringing up the point about the benefits of an informative lynch because, even if someone were too lazy to read Banana and felt she had been contributing, I feel it can be objectively agreed that lynching either of us would be informative.

Yes, BananaCucho and I, as far as anyone else knows, could be SvS or TvT. But SvS is just as good as TvS as you still lynch at least one scum, and I'm saying that anyone who's paying attention to our interactions should doubt TvT.

[pisskop]

You're the person who said that SJ isn't the sort of player that you'd want at LYLO - what's with this change of heart?

eww

[pisskop]

Wanna try using some actual logic with that bold statement, and explain how 'not in lylo' became 'lynch today'?

[pisskop]

What a gross shift

[Calix]

Misrep. I have been pushing Banana's lynch because she's repeatedly distorted the truth in a manner that reveals she's more intent on painting people as scum than on trying to figure out people's alignment. She's scum-motivated, and when someone with this much effort into the game displays that kind of scum-motivation, I try to kill them.

I've been bringing up the point about the benefits of an informative lynch because, even if someone were too lazy to read Banana and felt she had been contributing, I feel it can be objectively agreed that lynching either of us would be informative.

Yes, BananaCucho and I, as far as anyone else knows, could be SvS or TvT. But SvS is just as good as TvS as you still lynch at least one scum, and I'm saying that anyone who's paying attention to our interactions should doubt TvT.

You're trying to 1v1 and you're ignoring all other trains because of this tunnel when dealing with it in a more considered manner on DAY 2 is a far better move. Not going for it.

According to your logic about associations, almost everyone is an informative lynch. Banana isn't special just because you picked her.

One question.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.

[MattZed]

Maybe it's not the right time for it, but you never responded to my early game ISO of Gyrlander where I went through the first 200 posts of the game and didn't find anything Town-leaning or contributory.

I basically put it in my locker of "future evidence to consider when BananaCucho is dead." You're either trying to justify BananaCucho's response to Gyrlander to make her seem more towny, or you sincerely agreed with her from the beginning. Just as you accused me of hindsight bias, I can consider you to have had hindsight bias in not wanting to admit that you may have misread Gyrlander's early game. I don't have enough information on me to make a hard opinion of you from that ISO, but I do disagree with the tone of it.

[DarknessB]

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.

Thought this was weird as well. On the one hand, we have all these players basically spending posts to blast out that they are Town (i.e. saying it vs. showing it). On the other hand, we have MattZed here, with "I could hypothetically be scum". At least we're getting some odd new meta in this game...

[Calix]

Wanna try using some actual logic with that bold statement, and explain how 'not in lylo' became 'lynch today'?

So you're implying that you wanted him lynched on a future day? If so, how is that any better...?

Town is going to reach LYLO very quickly if scum floats, you know.

[MattZed]

You're trying to 1v1 and you're ignoring all other trains because of this tunnel when dealing with it in a more considered manner on DAY 2 is a far better move. Not going for it.

According to your logic about associations, almost everyone is an informative lynch. Banana isn't special just because you picked her.

One question.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BRINGING UP THE POSSIBILITY OF YOU BEING SCUM?

What the literal fuck? No town would be casting doubt on THEIR OWN ALIGNMENT like you're doing by even considering that.

The highlighted part is simply false. Think about how anyone flipping town right now would change your opinion of the game. Me or Banana flipping town would affect your opinion a LOT more than, say, PoD or Excalibur flipping town.

I grow tired of your playing dense. I'm not casting doubt on my own alignment; I'm pointing out how anyone who's not me or Banana should be seeing this right now.

While I think my play has certainly given me good reason to be townread, but that's not the point I'm making here: Banana needs to die.

[Gyrlander]

Just wanted to say that due to late interactions and so, I'm starting to find piskoof scummy too. A thing I wanted to tell before I die tonight.

And Banana isn't here right now, so I would consider focusing on other people, @MattZed

[pisskop]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

[MattZed]

Just wanted to say that due to late interactions and so, I'm starting to find piskoof scummy too. A thing I wanted to tell before I die tonight.

And Banana isn't here right now, so I would consider focusing on other people, @MattZed

Gyrlander, we don't need to vote people who are here right now. We're past the point of pressuring people into making a defense. It's time for someone to die, and people don't need to be present to die. There is no further reaction I need from Banana.

[pisskop]

Yea, can we stop being indecisive nimblies and vote?

[Calix]

The highlighted part is simply false. Think about how anyone flipping town right now would change your opinion of the game. Me or Banana flipping town would affect your opinion a LOT more than, say, PoD or Excalibur flipping town.

I grow tired of your playing dense. I'm not casting doubt on my own alignment; I'm pointing out how anyone who's not me or Banana should be seeing this right now.

While I think my play has certainly given me good reason to be townread, but that's not the point I'm making here: Banana needs to die.

Nah mate. If we policy-lynched, we can analyse the motivations of the players on that train, see if they used the lynch as an excuse to push away from someone else that was being pressured, etc. Even a seemingly 'random' lynch can be revealing, ESPECIALLY if a scum is policy-lynched. Your argument that we should lynch someone to get information doesn't make sense when every lynch will reveal something; that's the secondary aim with lynching.

Nobody should be posting shit like "if I was scum" and pushing themselves being a scum possibility. It's day one - the only thing that town has right now is the knowledge that they are town. That is it. And you're throwing that away?

[DarknessB]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

There's a possible Jailor -- we have no idea if an actual one rolled.

[pisskop]

somebody needs to sit me down and explain the setup then. in normal people english

[Gyrlander]

We have a jailer, theres no reason to assume youd die

How the fuck would you know we have a jailor?

--------------------

I'm not sure as Banana lynch, I'll re-read his posts.

[pisskop]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

[pisskop]

How the fuck would you know we have a jailor?

--------------------

I'm not sure as Banana lynch, I'll re-read his posts.

Shut up. youve turned a potentially good role into fodder

[Calix]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

Order of Operations.

It's the equivalent of the NAR, only it's not guaranteed to be in the same order as that.

[DarknessB]

somebody needs to sit me down and explain the setup then. in normal people english

Turk/Shinra Executive means any role under either of those categories could roll. Those are our TPRs sans Rufus (the Mayor). We have 3 TPRs, which could be any of those roles (under Turks or Shina Executive). We have no idea of the exact composition however.

[pisskop]

ahh.

And also ahh. OoO is a fishface

[Gyrlander]

These are 'employee' role possibilities?

OoO:
1. Heidegger jails
2. Jailer/architect/night chats open.
3. Yuffie hides
4. Heal Materia
5. Reno/Aeris roleblock/Contain Materia
6. Manipulate Materia
7. Hojo heals/Restore Materia/Cover Materia
8. Steal Materia
9. Red XIII frames
10. Night Kills
11. Tifa hands out suit
12. Investigatives investigate simultaneously/Sense Materia
13. Cloud remembers role

Whats ooo mean then

This means in what order will Night actions take action.

[DarknessB]

This means in what order will Night actions take action.

Town point for Gyrlander? See how much easier it is when you are host confirmed?

[pisskop]

can we end the day now? I want to jail a person

[Gyrlander]

Town point for Gyrlander? See how much easier it is when you are host confirmed?

I would like to not be confirmed. I've faith on surviving at least 1 night, but I'm not sure about it. Let's hope I get a Materia and use it on me ROFL

[MattZed]

Nah mate. If we policy-lynched, we can analyse the motivations of the players on that train, see if they used the lynch as an excuse to push away from someone else that was being pressured, etc. Even a seemingly 'random' lynch can be revealing, ESPECIALLY if a scum is policy-lynched. Your argument that we should lynch someone to get information doesn't make sense when every lynch will reveal something; that's the secondary aim with lynching.

Nobody should be posting shit like "if I was scum" and pushing themselves being a scum possibility. It's day one - the only thing that town has right now is the knowledge that they are town. That is it. And you're throwing that away?

No, you're still wrong. Some lynches are much more informative than others. You're presenting a false equivalence, and you need to stop insisting on it.

Again, you're making squabbles and overstatements about something that shouldn't even be registering on a town's scumdar. In what way does analyzing a 3rd-person perspective even remotely indicate alignment?

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

[DarknessB]

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

MZ, given how little time we have left in the day, why don't you give us your reads / scum possibilities? I really don't think this 1v1 thing you have proposed is going to happen, and if you are in fact Town, it's not helping us arrive at a lynch target. In other words, can you try to be productive in light of our current votes please?

[Calix]

No, you're still wrong. Some lynches are much more informative than others. You're presenting a false equivalence, and you need to stop insisting on it.

Again, you're making squabbles and overstatements about something that shouldn't even be registering on a town's scumdar. In what way does analyzing a 3rd-person perspective even remotely indicate alignment?

For the record, I've been scumreading Calix for a while now. She persists in pushing this false equivalence and drawing attention to tangential matters to discredit me. She would rather join a nearly random lynch than make the effort to take a side on issues that are actually appearing.

That's not a false equivalence, try again.

Pointing out scummy shit that you've been doing, such as doubt-casting your own alignment and trying to control the lynches, is a scum tell now? Bitch please. And then you completely disregard SJ's scummy behaviour and discredit the wagon as 'nearly random' even though you're trying to push an 'informative' lynch as a priority over lynching scum.

I've been campaigning AGAINST your lynch for the best part of the evening because you're rushing into a Banana lynch without considering the other possibilities. Your 'scum read' isn't going to make me go along with your shitty narrative. Deal with it.