I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
How the fuck am I a candidate for lynch? I'm just as confirmed as Crypt. Titus pushed me as low hanging fruit and I jokingly voted her cause why the fuck not, I have nothing to lose. There's no way anyone can make as case that Titus and I were aligned.
My two top scum picks after rereading the gamethread are Orpz and Mattzed.
I actually couldn't find the vote count, but I think it was:
Titus (4): Iced_Monopoly, Mesk514, Yzb25, Cryptonic
Whad (3): Orpz, MattZed, Titus
Is it too obvious that the whole scum team would have voted me to push for my mislynch D1? Hear me out.
First, Orpz:
A post that really stuck out to me as scummy from Orpz's posts from D1 is:
So Orpz decided to vote me for "lazy" reads. This is juxtaposed with him saying Yzb's post on cryptonic being scummy is "pretty good". I think if Orpz had a real scum read on me, enough to actually merit his vote on me, then he shouldn't just comment that I had "awful justification" for being on Cryptonic. He should be incensed about the train on Cryptonic since his biggest scum read is on it! Because he fails to do this, the post doesn't seem sincere to me and seems like a way to 1.) push a Whad train and 2.) leave the door open for a Cryptonic train (both of which I believe are trains on townmembers).
Re: MattZed:
I still really feel like this is something S says to T in games:
In Mafia, I find it exceptionally rare that people will throw around compliments like this. Or at least ones where in the context of the rest of the quote MattZed is raking me over a pile of hot coals for what he claims to be terribad town play and then in the next sentence saying it's actually pretty nice if I'm scum. That all just seems insincere and triggers my S talking to T radar.
I dislike this post by MattZed for two reasons:
1.) At this point, if we are about to lynch a mafia member, then the mafia will use their lynch redirect. MattZed's plan will help scum identify the unlynchable confirmed townies to better inform the lynch redirect.
2.) I note it very interesting that MattZed leaves Orpz off his list of people that he finds the most scummy. Instead he picks out the 3 lowest hanging fruits who are more likely than not townies. I'll get to why I don't find Gyrlander, Mesk, or SJ very scummy in my next post though.
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
Town reads that need little explanation:
Cryptonic - for being the deciding vote on Titus (scum) when the other option was Whad (town)
yzb25 - this guy GETS me. And always seeks to understand players and motivations. Liked his defense of me when I wasn't around and MattZed was hugely misrepping me.
Iced_Monopoly - #238 was the first to focus on Titus and was responsible for sheparding in the train.
My less straightforward town reads:
Gyrlander:
[spoiler]1. Cryptonic flagged this earlier, but Gyrlander pointing out that SJ didn't have a good case against Cryptonic seemed very town motivated to cut through the bullshit.
2. I literally read this as too stupid of a mistake for a scum player to make. Gyrlander seems really sincere here and I can sense his embarassment. VI, but town nonetheless.
3. I also like this post where Gyrlander is actively trying to probe me and discern my alignment as opposed to the blatant misreps thrown my way by people like MattZed.
4. In this post by Gyrlander, he is telling Titus not to read yzb and focus on something more productive. This doesn't seem like S talking to S, instead it reads very much to me like T talking to T/S which is what it would have been from Gyrlander's perspective at the moment.
5. This response to Titus revealing as scum doesn't seem at all like something Titus's scum partner would say.
6. If Gyrlander hadn't unvoted me then Titus and I would have been tied and it would have been randomed. That gives him townpoints even if he didn't end up placing that vote on Titus.[/spoiler]
Mesk514
[spoiler]
1. I'll admit that a large portion of my townread on Mesk is still based on meta, but there are also some non-meta kernels in there, too. This post, however is typical bold town mesk play.
2. Flagged this as typical town mesk, too.
3. Especially this. This is town mesk.
4. Mesk was a random voter on Titus, but we needed that vote to get the lynch off, nonetheless. Slight outside chance of being mafia who wanted to bus but didn't think the train would get off the ground. Mesk's D2 posts seems like sincere townie who thinks she should be cleared though.
5. Titus was pushing so hard for Mesk on D1. I find it really hard to believe that Titus would tunnel so aggressively after a teammate.[/spoiler]
SuperJack:
[spoiler]
I still have a gut town read on this slot simply because the posting demeanor seems very town-like to me.
He obviously hasn’t really read... Mesk's read on herself should have been Whad’s read on Mesk and I just feel like the lack of game mechanics exhibited by this slot and happy go-lucky nature seems more townie than scummy.
Obviously this is the weakest of my townreads but I'm confident enough in MattZed/Orpz scum to let my SJ gut town feel ride.[/spoiler]
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
-vote Orpz
To be honest at this point I don't mind Orpz or MattZed. Let's see what they have to say.
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
Two posts detailing me as potentially bussing titus, or being potential scum. Id like to remind you that I drove that lynch at the beginning half of the second day, and didnt veer off of it at any point. If she were my partner, this play would be incredibly bad, and she probably wouldve raged harder at me.
It seems my town reads are all in agreement that MZ is a target; Less convinced that Gyr is a target, but all seem interested in Orpz. I will re-read his position when I get the chance.
Im willing to clear mesk on the grounds that her vote on titus was absolute trash, and titus didnt react all that badly too it. Not nearly as badly as she shouldve if mesk was her teammate. Gyr is going to be null since nobody else is currently getting the same scum vibes from him that I am, I wont be forgetting him though.
This leaves my town pool at YZB, Whad, Crypt, Mesk
Null pool at Gyr, Sj, Orpz
Scum pool at MZ
Monopoly of the Iced variety
-unvote
fixed
Monopoly of the Iced variety
What about the other stuff I posted about Gyrlander?
Especially this post: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...111#post674111
Where Gyrlander asks Titus to do something productive and please read someone other than yzb who is basically townread by everyone. Doesn't seem like a SvS interaction to me.
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
Monopoly of the Iced variety
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
I feel pretty confident with how many mislynches we have. MZ / Orpz / SJ ... Pretty sure there's the scum that will give us our victory
Thank you Anonymous Donor
WTF STOP I didn't sheep anyone, I've been gunning for Whad the whole time
Though I will admit Titus's flip makes him look better
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
>When you call someone scum for keeping lynch options open as you make a post declaring your lynch options are open
I don't even think you're scum anymore because of Titus's flip but your arguments against me are weak.
Let's start a new hype train AWAY FROM ME
-vote Superjack
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
Ok well given that you thought my 1st half of D1 reads were lazy, can you explain some of your reasoning on how they seemed scum motivated? I already gave reasoning to mattzed for why they were town motivated. The main two prongs being 1.) actually my reads even if lazy and 2.) gave town a baseline to talk about reads and who needed to get shifted around.
Also regarding you keeping the option of cryptonic open: I'll admit that I found cryptonic scummy yesterday. However I think most people were of either the Cryptonic town/Whad Scum (Gyrlander, Cryptonic) or the Whad town/Cryptonic Scum (yzb, Whad, SuperJack), or Cryptonic town/Whad town (Iced_Monopoly) so it looks weird that you were fencesitting it. I'd like to understand how you came to the conclusion of Cryptonic scum/Whad scum because at the present moment it seems scum motivated to keep ML options open and fuel both trains.
Why SuperJack and not MattZed? What do you think of the stuff I pointed out about MattZed's behavior?
Link here: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post674394
I am Hela, Odin's firstborn, commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the Goddess of Death.
-vote MattZed
Because I suspected him enough before Titus flipped.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Present. Will start reading up.
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
Basically, my thoughts today can be summed up as: 1 scum in SJ/MZ, who care about the last scum
Also everyone who pushed Titus should be more or less cleared because it was obvious from the day that Titus was someone who could potentially control the day chat if needed. I'd like to think that Mafia would choose to bus another player if they really did have to bus one.
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
Mattzed is being really scummy.
-He reasonlessly gave the 3 baitest lynch choices (Gyr, Mesk and SJ) then proceeded to justify the townreads instead. Most of the townreads were obvious anyway (Me, Crypt, exc.).
-He conveniently had just enough time to post his Whad ISO (the only read he'd made all game) to justify voting the largest train, but conveniently couldn't be around for peak-time LYLO to discuss his lynch choice properly. His schedule may have just been unlucky, but the scum perspective is impossible to ignore.
-After writing an entire essay about why Whad's entire game makes him either scum or so anti-town he's worth PLing, he comfortably flipped his read without showing any emotion. Generally people show some kind of stubbornness / reluctance about going back on their reads, shame or shock, or just fucking anything. Being like "yo wanna truce ex-hard-scumread?" feels so insincere.
-His pro-town attitude just feels fake and forced. <--- I don't generally make these kinds of reasons the crux of my reads, but given my townread Iced seems to also be getting inexplicable scum-gutread vibes from Matt and my townread Whad seemed to feel a similar response to that "if you're scum I admire your boldness" crap I'm including it.
His supposed unawareness of how his actions can be construed as scummy feels fake AF, too. We shouldn't even need to ping him - it's extremely obvious he's on the chopping block.
@MattZed Yeah you're needed. Respond to Whad's criticisms while you're at it (#509).
We have SO many mislynches that I'm feeling totally comfortable if we just lynch following a lynch order, something like:
MZ -> Orpz -> Whad -> Mesk -> Iced
Or something like that.
Thank you Anonymous Donor
Basically it's almost confirmed that the lynch will be swapped today, regardless of who we're lynching (unless we're lynching "confirmed" Town).
We should almost just fast hammer someone semi-scummy and go from there.
To what end, though?
I mean, if I were scum, I'd be swapping the second lynch. Especially true if it were a misslynch.
Swapping a misslynch forces the idea that the lynch was correct, and Mafia was saving their own. The next day would proceed with the misslynch. Then Mafia only needs 1 more lynch after that.
That's why I hope people will stand back and consider other lynch possibilities after the lynch-swap takes place.
Rereading the Orpz/SJ/MZ slots and taking notes while I go through their ISOs:
Orpz
- Oddly centric on mesk around the same time that Titus was. Took a different approach in discussing her than Titus did, but seemingly dropped her the same time whad's train gained traction
- Advocates a SJ lynch over MZ, even though he presents why MZ is scummy - he presents no case for SJ but 'gut feels'
SuperJack
- Doesnt read the game, (setup or posts)
- Shitposts, or falls into a thesaurus and makes post that are constantly asked for clarification
- Large interest in cryptonic, even when hes not a target for a train, continues through to the end when titus and whad are on the chopping block
MattZed
- Suprised game is active without him (joke?) Promises to ISO major trains - Ignores titus completely and only ISO's whad
- Far too interested in Whad, doesnt even consider titus as a viable lynch, makes no case for her (+ve or -ve), only tunnels whad
- Game cannot be mechanically solved, but he insists it can, looks like an attempt to take town leader slot.
From these 3, only two were on either train yesterday, Orpz and MZ. With that information, and the reads on SJ, im willing to excuse him from the lynch pool today. Between MZ and Orpz, MZ is by far the scummier player.
I was right about titus, Im confident im right about MZ too.
-vote MattZed
Monopoly of the Iced variety
Aight, I dont want to see L-1 with 24hrs left, so il change my vote to a placeholder
-unvote
Still voting MZ
Monopoly of the Iced variety
Okay, no.
@Whad , if you're town, you REALLY need to stop assuming your own innocence is self-evident. Regardless of your alignment, there have been legitimately scummy things in your posts, and when people vote you for it, it doesn't make them scum. You're proposing that your EoD train was 100% scum. When has that ever happened? Really, I understand scum wanting to coordinate to save their own, but when is a train ONLY scum, especially on D1?
And besides, the "scum were voting Whad to save Titus" idea ENTIRELY misses the chronology of what happened. Crypt made a switch at last minute, long after many players would have been able to vote to save a scum partner. Hell, with how close it was, there's a very good chance a scum vote was sitting on Titus that couldn't be moved in time (*coughMeskcough*) Unless Orpz is somehow playing waaaaay better than I know him to as scum, your train was town driven and you need to accept that.
The notion that Orpz and I are scumbuddies is absurd and needs to stop right now.
@Cryptonic , if you're sincere about being okay with a SuperJack lynch, then join me. He's in my lynch pool, and if he's in yours then you should have no problem changing.
-vote SuperJack