Dead Chat

[FM Clawtrocity]

I didn't think I was that scummy to be shot. =(

[FM Raiden]

Lol, I was basically auto town... this vigilante...

[FM Raiden]

I keep dying on first 3 nights. RIP

[FM Raiden]

My blackmail: I want to find the Cabbage Merchant so I came up with a plan. You must claim Cabbage Merchant, you need to specify your role, but it doesn't really matter to me which one you pick. It won't work if you don't come across completely serious so you have to make it convincing. It will probably help to explain why you decided to claim. You must not back out unless the real Cabbage Merchant claims, in which case you not only can but should. I would prefer that nobody knows I forced you to do this, so you must not tell anybody. I will try to help you if I can, but I won't out myself unless absolutely necessary.

If for any reason you need to communicate with me use this cipher to communicate, to encode a message replace each occurrence of the characters on the right with the corresponding character on the left, to decode I'll replace each occurrence of the characters on the left with the corresponding character on the right. Don't use this unless absolutely necessary. If absolutely necessary I may attempt to communicate with you with the same cipher.

O-A
B-D
M-C
D-B
Y-E
J-F
G-K
N-H
A-I
W-J
K-G
S-L
C-M
R-N
I-O
P-Q
Q-P
H-R
L-S
T-X
E-U
Z-V
V-W
X-T
U-Y
F-Z

Also i was charged the day I died.

[FM Slaol]

sad

[Slaol]

Once we hit 13 players would you guys like me to host an sfm in dead chat?

[FM Ganondorf]

I lolled when you ended up dead, Raiden. We had charged you.

Also I might have been able to get away if I hadn't posted my toph lead so soon, if I wasn't so hasty I'd have realized Divemaster was visited by Sokka n1 and lied about his feedback.

[FM Slaol]

I lolled when you ended up dead, Raiden. We had charged you.

Also I might have been able to get away if I hadn't posted my toph lead so soon, if I wasn't so hasty I'd have realized Divemaster was visited by Sokka n1 and lied about his feedback.

you fucked up when you claimed toph

[FM Slaol]

Once we hit 13 players would you guys like me to host an sfm in dead chat?

sure just pm me on my regular account I don't see myself regularly checking this chat

[FM divemaster127]

I didn't lie about being not being target by Sokka. Two vigilantes.

[FM MrSmarter]

I didn't lie about being not being target by Sokka. Two vigilantes.

Was it you who shot me though?

[FM divemaster127]

Was it you who shot me though?

No

[FM MrSmarter]

Nevertheless this game got hurt so much by vigilantes.

[FM divemaster127]

Last night, I targeted S.A.S. Cnl Alpha. It was pretty obvious my number one scum suspect was Auckmid, and Ganondorf's words when it became obvious he was going to die made it pretty clear that mafia knew I was vigilante. As such I came to the conclusion that if mafia thought I was going to kill one of them (most likely Auckmid was mafia) they would roleblock me, but would let me shoot if they thought I wasn't going to kill one of them. I was roleblocked on the night of my death, so I'm assuming Auckmid was mafia.

[FM MrSmarter]

Last night, I targeted S.A.S. Cnl Alpha. It was pretty obvious my number one scum suspect was Auckmid, and Ganondorf's words when it became obvious he was going to die made it pretty clear that mafia knew I was vigilante. As such I came to the conclusion that if mafia thought I was going to kill one of them (most likely Auckmid was mafia) they would roleblock me, but would let me shoot if they thought I wasn't going to kill one of them. I was roleblocked on the night of my death, so I'm assuming Auckmid was mafia.

I went to heal Yayap last night because I didn't know if Jack was going to be allowed to possibly gamethrow so I Figured I could try and save one of the 2.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Are you actually kidding me? Why was I killed by the Avatar?

[FM MrSmarter]

Since u got roleblocked Dive does that mean nobody has actually visited S.A.S yet? cuz if people forget about it he can win.

[FM divemaster127]

Since u got roleblocked Dive does that mean nobody has actually visited S.A.S yet? cuz if people forget about it he can win.

Yeah, I wouldn't have visited him.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Are you actually kidding me? Why was I killed by the Avatar?

Was I really Modkilled? When I was using my charge to go after Pro who I thought was Firenation and Yayayp who I thought was faking BMed?

Tell me that didn't just happen as if it did I quit this site.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Was I really Modkilled? When I was using my charge to go after Pro who I thought was Firenation and Yayayp who I thought was faking BMed?

Tell me that didn't just happen as if it did I quit this site.

There changed that so it's an actual question now.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Yup modkilled for zero reason. And all of my whispered to the Game Masters were ignored. This will either be my last FM now or at least when this host is hosting.

Beyond stupid to Modkill me for using a mechanic they set up.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Was I really Modkilled? When I was using my charge to go after Pro who I thought was Firenation and Yayayp who I thought was faking BMed?

Tell me that didn't just happen as if it did I quit this site.

At best, your action was attempted suicide. At worst, a triple kill on members of your own faction. It's textbook gamethrowing. You throw the game, you get modkilled. It's in the rules.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

At best, your action was attempted suicide. At worst, a triple kill on members of your own faction. It's textbook gamethrowing. You throw the game, you get modkilled. It's in the rules.

And I clearly explained why this was not game throwing. I even whispered you why, which you could have replied too or explained what would happen if I went through with it.

You failed to listen to my reasoning and you did not reply to a single message I sent you over the past two days. That is textbook bad hosting.

At best, my actions killed two scum members, or one out of two. My action was not to take down two probably scum members and myself with it. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
At worst yes, it could have been a triple kill of my own members. But that is not my fault that you, the creators of the game, put that as a in game mechanic that the bus driver can be charged. I even questioned this before hand and announced my intent with facts behind it to show that this was not game throwing but a legit strategy.

First message

"Hello Avatar!

"Bus Driver
Swap 2 players at night.
Players that visit a swapped target will instead affect the other.
Should your swapping cause a killing role to attempt to kill itself the attack will pierce invulnerability.
You may swap yourself."

My night action is to swap FM Procyon and FM Yayap.

(was this submitted correctly?)"

Second sent on Jan 9th

"I think it was! Well I tried to be entertaining in the end at least.

This group of players were far more aggressive and just assholes compared to the last FM. It's probably the game people on both FMs I realize that but they just played different. Maybe Star Trek is happier then Avatar.... AVATAR YOU BRING OUT THE BULLY IN PEOPLE! DAMN YOU NICKELODEON!

I honestly don't believe this should be considered Game Throwing as really do believe that Pro is Scum. Just the read I have gotten off of him.

Yayap could be pretending to be BMed. I have seen that happen in Mafia and at least this way they will know if he is lying or not.

Both of these are decent targets and make sense to try and see if they have lied about A) whom they are aligned with and B) if they were charged or not.

This is playing to my win condition. Eliminate all scum and Fire Nation."

When those were not replied too I sent a few more to check to see if the Avatar was there and if he was ok with my choice. No reply.

Grade A not great hosting.

1) Don't put the mechanic in the game if you will modkill someone for using it to attempt to remove scum members.
2) Announce perhaps in a whisper to one of the 4/5 messages I sent you this weekend what would happen if I followed through.

It's that simple.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

At best, your action was attempted suicide. At worst, a triple kill on members of your own faction. It's textbook gamethrowing. You throw the game, you get modkilled. It's in the rules.

Day 3
Post 680

"Again, what Crimson said is that in past games Fire Nation charged their own members to seem town.

If/When I interact with people claiming to be charged (which I am too) if they don't explode then they are caught lying and that helps town.
If/When I interact with people claiming to be charged (which I am too) if they explode and turn up Fire Nation or scum that helps town.
If/When I interact with people claiming to be charged (which I am too) if they explode and turn up town, then that hurts town.

2 out of 3 possibilities and two are good for town.... APPA GONNA HUG IT OUT TONIGHT TO HELP THE TOWN HE LOVES AND HIS AVATAR PAL!"

I clearly state intent and reasoning behind the play. I clearly state why it is not intended game throwing in multiple posts and USE a mechanic that you put in the game.

So again, how is that gamethrowing when I played to take out scum players?

[FM TheJackofSpades]

*Get Charged.
*Suspect that FM Procyon is scum and that FM Yayap is faking being BMed
*Stand up for a player that flips Scum.
*Realize that you are now hooped as everyone thinks you are scum.
*Reveal as Bus Driver to prevent Vigs from shooting me and wasting shots.
*Announce that I am going to switch Yayap and Procyon as I suspect they are both scum and are also charged. This is a in game mechanic.
*Get mod killed for using the in game mechanic (charges) as I COULD have been taking out town players. (Why were the vigs not mod killed then as they were taking the same risks as I did? What about Bodyguards? They protect town and die for it. How is what I did any different? If a vig shoots a target then Body Guards die and so do they. When I suspect FM Procyon and FM Yayap are both scum, why did I get modkilled for trying to kill them and explaining why?)

Really, I would like this reasoning answered as the Modkill makes zero to no sense. I think it was done to prevent the game from being over that much quicker as I was wrong and both were town. Possibly a very important town role.

Would any of the two hosts like to reply to this please as I believe the modkill was wrong and did not intend to game throw (which I made public and stated many times with facts backing up my plan and reasoning for it.)

Thank you.

[Forum Mafia GM]

And I clearly explained why this was not game throwing. I even whispered you why, which you could have replied too or explained what would happen if I went through with it.

You failed to listen to my reasoning and you did not reply to a single message I sent you over the past two days. That is textbook bad hosting.

At best, my actions killed two scum members, or one out of two. My action was not to take down two probably scum members and myself with it. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
At worst yes, it could have been a triple kill of my own members. But that is not my fault that you, the creators of the game, put that as a in game mechanic that the bus driver can be charged. I even questioned this before hand and announced my intent with facts behind it to show that this was not game throwing but a legit strategy.

Don't put the mechanic in the game if you will modkill someone for using it to attempt to remove scum members.

You planned to do that action before providing any kind of reasoning other than "I'm mad at everyone". I don't believe the reasoning you provided was anything more than an attempt to justify your actions so that I would let you ruin the game.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

You planned to do that action before providing any kind of reasoning other than "I'm mad at everyone". I don't believe the reasoning you provided was anything more than an attempt to justify your actions so that I would let you ruin the game.

Key words being "I don't believe." Unless we are suppose to be mailing you our scum lists every night.
*When I was charged I did not visit anyone as I didn't want to switch people possibly being investigated or set off an innocent person.
*At this point both Yayap and Procyon were already on my scum list. I stated early in the day before "I'm mad at everyone" that I thought Yayap was lying about being BMed.
*I role revealed to save the Vigs shot as I figured they were heading straight for me. And decided to take out two targets who were suppose to be Charged and who I believed are scum.
If one didn't die then they lied about being charged.
If they both flipped scum then my play was correct.
If they both flipped town then I have made the same mistakes the Vigs have been making all game.
It was a play I should have been allowed to finish and not been publicly punished for attempting it.
Not when I tried to talk to you about it and even justified the move with proper logic and reasoning besides "I'm mad at everyone."

This was not an attempted game throw. Like I am sure the Vigs are not attempting to game throw and are using the game mechanic they were given.
I did the same. Charged. Bus Driver.

So don't you agree that the modkill was not needed now? I don't know how I can make it any more clear that it was a mistake.
One that if there was anyway that could be fixed I would appreciate.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Key words being "I don't believe." Unless we are suppose to be mailing you our scum lists every night.
*When I was charged I did not visit anyone as I didn't want to switch people possibly being investigated or set off an innocent person.
*At this point both Yayap and Procyon were already on my scum list. I stated early in the day before "I'm mad at everyone" that I thought Yayap was lying about being BMed.
*I role revealed to save the Vigs shot as I figured they were heading straight for me. And decided to take out two targets who were suppose to be Charged and who I believed are scum.
If one didn't die then they lied about being charged.
If they both flipped scum then my play was correct.
If they both flipped town then I have made the same mistakes the Vigs have been making all game.
It was a play I should have been allowed to finish and not been publicly punished for attempting it.
Not when I tried to talk to you about it and even justified the move with proper logic and reasoning besides "I'm mad at everyone."

This was not an attempted game throw. Like I am sure the Vigs are not attempting to game throw and are using the game mechanic they were given.
I did the same. Charged. Bus Driver.

So don't you agree that the modkill was not needed now? I don't know how I can make it any more clear that it was a mistake.
One that if there was anyway that could be fixed I would appreciate.

I mean I could have sent you 17 private messages explaining why this was not game throwing and posted maybe 40 more times with facts and reasoning....
Far be it that no one who has ever played mafia before role revealed and attempted to kill scum players when they got upset.
I hope those Vigs are writing you 12 page essays about each shot they take that comes up Town with reasons why they took that shot so you don't assume they were just angry and game throwing.....
See my point?

[Forum Mafia GM]

I mean I could have sent you 17 private messages explaining why this was not game throwing and posted maybe 40 more times with facts and reasoning....
Far be it that no one who has ever played mafia before role revealed and attempted to kill scum players when they got upset.
I hope those Vigs are writing you 12 page essays about each shot they take that comes up Town with reasons why they took that shot so you don't assume they were just angry and game throwing.....
See my point?

I am still not convinced that you weren't trying to gamethrow. However, if you truly were not intending to gamethrow, and you actually want town to win, then you should be grateful that I modkilled you. If I hadn't, you still would have died (from the charges) and you would have taken two townies down with you, putting town in an even worse position than they are in currently.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

I am still not convinced that you weren't trying to gamethrow. However, if you truly were not intending to gamethrow, and you actually want town to win, then you should be grateful that I modkilled you. If I hadn't, you still would have died (from the charges) and you would have taken two townies down with you, putting town in an even worse position than they are in currently.

Well that is good then. But at the very least could you please remove the Modkill strike and replace it with something else. Just killed. As I promise you my intent was not to game throw. I would not be going through this much effort if it was.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Well that is good then. But at the very least could you please remove the Modkill strike and replace it with something else. Just killed. As I promise you my intent was not to game throw. I would not be going through this much effort if it was.

"You know, Jack COULD of been right about mafia charging themselves.

Note how Jack was going to bus Proycyon, and Yapap.

The whole lynch train on Severn seems scummy.

Proycyon and Yapap are both on different lynch trains.

Could Proycyon could Mafiascum and Yapap be neutralscum?" - Said by Narks on Day 4

....... If alive players are even seeing what I was doing as a real tactic instead of "game throwing" doesn't that say somethng Avatar?

I am thankful that I did not kill two innocent town players. But still, I was not game throwing in purpose. I was using myself to take care of two evil targets. I had nothing vs Yayap or Pro except that I thought they were scum. Now If I went after FalseTruth or Ozy with no resoning or logic in my posts before night then for sure you could believe I was game throwing. But I didn't and I wasn't.

Anyway I can replace a modkill target and get back in the game? I don't want to go down like this to be honest as I am a better player then the "modkill" status will lead people to believe.

[Slaol]

If you are better than just play more games and play them well.
Not taking night action until the gamethrow in question suggests a lack of intent towards the game. Your posts were abundant, but actively defending a fairly blatantly clear scum and planning to go about action that would get yourself killed, and was rooted (at least vocally at first) in being an act of spite clearly defend the opinion that your day presence also had no intention to contribute.

I'm not going to suggest anyone not let you into a game, and I'd prefer if you were interested in our games in the future, but I doubt that at this point your performance sells anyone on you being above the modkill. I do hope to be proven wrong in the future.

Just for my curiosity, what kind of strategy is there behind the mafia charging itself?

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Just for my curiosity, what kind of strategy is there behind the mafia charging itself?

Why would Mafia claim sheriff and sacrifice a fellow Mafia player?
Why would Mafia vote to lynch Mafia?
To look innocent. It was done in a M-FM that I read when Chrimson brought the strategy forward. I read that M-FM and upon doing so figured since I was hooped anyway and Pro was on my scum list I may as well check and see if he was really charged and or scum.
I've also seem Mafia fake being BMed before as well and Yayap I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth or not.

Your posts were abundant, but actively defending a fairly blatantly clear scum

Blatantly clear scum, I respectfully disagree. It was a trust one or the other.
Either Narks is telling the truth and Ganon is evil after Narks claims Lookout.
Or Ganon is telling the truth and is a Truthseer and Narks is lying
It was a 50/50 chance. But I figured a Truthseer was more valuable then a Lookout and we could not afford to lynch a Truthseer. Why I backed up Ganon as much as I did, and even then I backed up the Role he claimed and not him itself.
I was too deep when he finally admitted to lying and it was when I was trying to defend that I was charged that Chrimson brought forward the Mafia Charged Themselves theory and game. Thus I roled revealed and explained my intentions to visit Pro (who said he was charged and I thought was scum) and Yayap (Whom I thought was possibly faking BMed).
I was wrong on all three cases, which sucks. But I had fun when I role revealed and got to act like I did in the last FM, which was great.
Maybe I just need to scum hunt and play a bit better. Getting charged so early really hurt me as Bus Driver as I tried to play pretty cautious. . But when I was hooped I just went for it and revealed and tried to take scum down as how much more damage could I do that the Vigs didn't already do?

Hope that answers your question! =)

[Slaol]

No, see I asked what strategy there is for charging themselves, I said nothing about claiming. Mafia is expected to lie every day every game. Hell every post if you factor intent.

What I asked about though is why would they actually charge themselves? All it does is increase chance of death. And on top of that, then also claim charged?

One might charge to let power roles die upon their action, and one might claim to deflect attention- in fear of death. But who would both claim the deflecting claim, and prepare himself to be killed? Moreover, planning to surrender one scum to kill one town is a losing ratio, and a plan no effective mafia would ever choose, until they are the majority they can not suffer a 1-for-1 by choice, and at that point the game would be over. Surrendering a sinking ally to buy town credit is 'bussing' a well known strategy, but doing so is only worth if it prepares a long game of defense.

There is no reasonable reason to have committed both actions. With that in mind your actions were either running into lying scum- which does nothing (similar to your first few nights doing nothing), or attempting to suicide upon fellow non-mafia (something that was real here).

I respect that even the best can have bad games, it happens so I've not in anyway let this negatively impact my view of you. But there really wasn't very much logical base for your thoughts in this case. You even have acknowledged that you were wrong in all cases, so I'd hope you stop defending your own error, and just grow from this game. I have this debate with my gf all the time, 'Once you know you err'd, stop explaining your error like explaining it somehow makes it make sense.'

Anyone can be wrong any game, but as Roku has said your death was already assured, I'd just take from this that your play was odd enough that the host was 'justified' in not letting you ruin the game.

It's better to go down as a modkill than to go down as the biggest reason the town lost. No?

[FM TheJackofSpades]

No, see I asked what strategy there is for charging themselves, I said nothing about claiming. Mafia is expected to lie every day every game. Hell every post if you factor intent.

What I asked about though is why would they actually charge themselves? All it does is increase chance of death. And on top of that, then also claim charged?

One might charge to let power roles die upon their action, and one might claim to deflect attention- in fear of death. But who would both claim the deflecting claim, and prepare himself to be killed? Moreover, planning to surrender one scum to kill one town is a losing ratio, and a plan no effective mafia would ever choose, until they are the majority they can not suffer a 1-for-1 by choice, and at that point the game would be over. Surrendering a sinking ally to buy town credit is 'bussing' a well known strategy, but doing so is only worth if it prepares a long game of defense.

There is no reasonable reason to have committed both actions. With that in mind your actions were either running into lying scum- which does nothing (similar to your first few nights doing nothing), or attempting to suicide upon fellow non-mafia (something that was real here).

I respect that even the best can have bad games, it happens so I've not in anyway let this negatively impact my view of you. But there really wasn't very much logical base for your thoughts in this case. You even have acknowledged that you were wrong in all cases, so I'd hope you stop defending your own error, and just grow from this game. I have this debate with my gf all the time, 'Once you know you err'd, stop explaining your error like explaining it somehow makes it make sense.'

Anyone can be wrong any game, but as Roku has said your death was already assured, I'd just take from this that your play was odd enough that the host was 'justified' in not letting you ruin the game.

It's better to go down as a modkill than to go down as the biggest reason the town lost. No?

Oh...... you know what, you are 100% correct! I actually didn't think of it like that. At least busing them if the were lieing about being charged would have exposed them, right? Hmmm.

I really didn't intend to game throw though! I think that point is clear. But clearly I have a lot of learning to do.

Oh well, there is always the next FM! Thank you for that though. Real eye opener.

[FM divemaster127]

Why didn't the PK sabotage before he did the suicide move?

[FM MrSmarter]

Soooo dive who are u?

[FM divemaster127]

Its a secret Banshis

[FM MrSmarter]

Suuuuure Auckmid. Get on

[FM divemaster127]

Internet is way too weak. If I was still alive, I would have had to call limited access.

[FM Slaol]

guess my com yo

[FM Slaol]

also lol at jack

[FM Raiden]

guess my com yo

noctiz?

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Why didn't the PK sabotage before he did the suicide move?

Interesting question.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Ugh my first FM I did well (Even got a reward for it!)
This one I played so damn terrible on Day 3. Glad that my action was stopped.
Excited for the next FM and I hope this "modkill" doesn't hurt me from getting into future games or how people look at me.
Reading this night chat I think open eyes on the situation and what went down and why it was good that it was stopped.
Even though it was not attempted game throwing it was a very bad play that would have probably cost town the game.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Narks asks way too many FAQ questions at night...
That has to be close to abusing the FAQ system.

[Slaol]

I don't think it should or will impact your chance to play games, I wouldn't worry.

The FAQ is open at all times. Until he starts a day chat in there Im not bothered and I doubt Roku is bothered

[FM TheJackofSpades]

I don't think it should or will impact your chance to play games, I wouldn't worry.

The FAQ is open at all times. Until he starts a day chat in there Im not bothered and I doubt Roku is bothered

Ah gotcha. So has the game gone the way you had predicted so far or no?
Probably with each FM it is hard to predict what may happens but I am sure there is a few things you can guess before the game starts.
Living up to your expectations?
Also, and I have to say after playing Bioshock Infinite and reading the Bioshock FM, I would LOVE to play a Bioshock Infinite themed FM.

[Slaol]

I think it's pretty alright. I'm most excited to just see the finale of this FM series, more so than to even care what that looks like.

Often though Mafia will roll for a littlebit, and then Town will begin to put it together, that might be what it happening here, as it looked really ugly, but they have pulled off 2 consecutive lynches.

[FM MrSmarter]

I think it's pretty alright. I'm most excited to just see the finale of this FM series, more so than to even care what that looks like.

Often though Mafia will roll for a littlebit, and then Town will begin to put it together, that might be what it happening here, as it looked really ugly, but they have pulled off 2 consecutive lynches.

Or town completely decimates 2 factions in 1 day and gets rid of the mafia till they surrender