Is this site toxic?

[Firebringer]

Quick even MS allows you to insult a players play.
To a certain degree.

They are more liberal with usage of the rules, but thats because its a bigger crowd and not everyone gets it that the other person doesn't really mean it.

I mean if I have a back and forth with most players here they will get it that I don't really mean it, some won't but a most get it. If you feel like someone is going too far you can always just tell them "Hey stop" unless they are huge asshole I think most will respect that on some level and back down at least a bit.

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Mafia is about communication and when you start banning certain ways people communicate you limit the ways in which people play.

I agree with Crypt on the whole point about we aren't robots.

Does that mean we allow all forms of people Ad Hom? No. It depends on intention of the player.

Is the player doing so to actually legitimately hurt you? That isn't okay.
Is the player acting within their role/win con to further it? Yes, than usually okay.

[Cryptonic]

I mean if I have a back and forth with most players here they will get it that I don't really mean it, some won't but a most get it. If you feel like someone is going too far you can always just tell them "Hey stop" unless they are huge asshole I think most will respect that on some level and back down at least a bit.

This x19273891273

If people just told others to stop and that they don't appreciate it, then 99% of the people would stop. And the 1% would get weeded out as the true toxic players. As I said, we are human and we can get upset/frustrated. But we can also feel empathy.


But instead, this is what happens every time:

Player A insults
Player B gets upset
Player B reports post
Player B replies with insults
Player A replies with insults
Player B reports post
Player B replies with more insults
Player A & B both get infracted because the conversation was reported
Player A gets mad @ Player B for reporting
Player B gets mad @ Admin because they think they are completely innocent and should be allowed to respond with hate and go unpunished because they didn't initiate


Where is the logic in these situations? How can you report someone for something, and then carry out the same actions? And I'm not joking, this literally happens 99% of the time someone reports a post in game. Just blows my mind that the people who complain about the toxicity on this site are willing to do it themselves. They don't try to help the situation at all.

[Quick]

This x19273891273

If people just told others to stop and that they don't appreciate it, then 99% of the people would stop. And the 1% would get weeded out as the true toxic players. As I said, we are human and we can get upset/frustrated. But we can also feel empathy.


But instead, this is what happens every time:

Player A insults
Player B gets upset
Player B reports post
Player B replies with insults
Player A replies with insults
Player B reports post
Player B replies with more insults
Player A & B both get infracted because the conversation was reported
Player A gets mad @ Player B for reporting
Player B gets mad @ Admin because they think they are completely innocent and should be allowed to respond with hate and go unpunished because they didn't initiate


Where is the logic in these situations? How can you report someone for something, and then carry out the same actions? And I'm not joking, this literally happens 99% of the time someone reports a post in game. Just blows my mind that the people who complain about the toxicity on this site are willing to do it themselves. They don't try to help the situation at all.

FWIW, I have never reported a post. Secondly, its pretty easy to see how to solve the problem ie. take insults off the table for play.

[Cryptonic]

FWIW, I have never reported a post. Secondly, its pretty easy to see how to solve the problem ie. take insults off the table for play.

Yes, true, you never have. I've also never really seen you involved in any in-game drama.

The hard part with removing insults is, where do we draw the line?

Crappy players make plays like that. For one, it lacks subtlety. it doesn't really throw anyone off because it is so obvious as a fancy play. That why no one did that. Ofc based on some of the things I have see on this forum I can't rule that out I suppose. I have a naturally bent toward playing straightforward though.

Is this an insult? It's stating that a player is crappy based on their playstyle.

Tell me unknown, what the flying fuck do you know about my town game?

Should we consider this toxic and instigating? It encourages players to respond with hostility.

The whole point of me asking for a Doc claim is to eliminate WIFOM. How the hell do you not see that?

Should we consider the loaded question @ the end of the post, which infers someone is stupid, as an insult?

Uhg. Really? I have to explain this? Ok, I will walk you though it.

And this is also condescending and inferring that someone is so stupid that you're shocked you have to explain it.



I mean, personally I don't think there is a problem with the way you are posting. But they definitely do help harbor the toxic environment you are posting against. I don't think it's appropriate to think it's OK to be condescending to players, and then get upset if they insult you. Being condescending is insulting.

And just to say, I'm not trying to single you out. I'm just using you as an example because you've openly posted against the toxicity of the games. There are other users I would've way rather used for examples than you, but I know they would've taken it as an insult and this thread would just be full of drama if I did that. Sorry if you are taking offense to me using these quotes, I am just using them to prove my point. It is nothing against you as a player, because, tbh, it's a similar playstyle to mine and most other users.

[Quick]

Yes, true, you never have. I've also never really seen you involved in any in-game drama.

The hard part with removing insults is, where do we draw the line?

I think drawing the line is something that requires knowing the intent of the person. I still think that some things should still not be said, even if the intent to hurt someone was not there. After all, some people are simply sociopaths.

Is this an insult? It's stating that a player is crappy based on their playstyle.

No one did that though, so I was not actually insulting anyone's play. I made a comment saying some people on this site are prone to fancy play syndrome, yes, but I did not point out specific examples and didn't name names.

Should we consider this toxic and instigating? It encourages players to respond with hostility.

This is a case where I was using colorful language to give a more dramatic effect. I didn't insult Unknown. I was raising the question of does unknown really know how I play as Town. It is colorful language, yes. But the actual message is not insulting.

Should we consider the loaded question @ the end of the post, which infers someone is stupid, as an insult?

That would be one way to look at it. Another would be that I was frustrated and wanted more info on how I could explain it so people could understand.

And this is also condescending and inferring that someone is so stupid that you're shocked you have to explain it.

It doesn't necessitate that I think they are stupid. All it means is that I am surprised people don't understand what I am saying. I have this problem a lot actually, so when I am put in a heightened state of stress, I typically get more bothered by people not knowing where I am coming from.

I mean, personally I don't think there is a problem with the way you are posting. But they definitely do help harbor the toxic environment you are posting against. I don't think it's appropriate to think it's OK to be condescending to players, and then get upset if they insult you. Being condescending is insulting.

I was not being condescending in the slightest. Everything I said there was 100% genuine. I was not trying to knock anyone. Obviously, I also am someone who needs to work on my presentation to make sure I am not offending anyone because I can see what you are saying here.

And just to say, I'm not trying to single you out. I'm just using you as an example because you've openly posted against the toxicity of the games. There are other users I would've way rather used for examples than you, but I know they would've taken it as an insult and this thread would just be full of drama if I did that. Sorry if you are taking offense to me using these quotes, I am just using them to prove my point. It is nothing against you as a player, because, tbh, it's a similar playstyle to mine and most other users.

No, I see your point. I know what you are thinking. The way you present info can be harmful if taken the wrong way and so where do we determine what is ok to say and what is not. Granted, I think you kinda twisted the meaning of what I said, but tbh, it might have been deserved on my end.

[Firebringer]

But instead, this is what happens every time:

Player A insults
Player B gets upset
Player B reports post
Player B replies with insults
Player A replies with insults
Player B reports post
Player B replies with more insults
Player A & B both get infracted because the conversation was reported
Player A gets mad @ Player B for reporting
Player B gets mad @ Admin because they think they are completely innocent and should be allowed to respond with hate and go unpunished because they didn't initiate


Where is the logic in these situations? How can you report someone for something, and then carry out the same actions? And I'm not joking, this literally happens 99% of the time someone reports a post in game. Just blows my mind that the people who complain about the toxicity on this site are willing to do it themselves. They don't try to help the situation at all.

lol I think i have been guilty of this at one point.

Probably involving Banana

[Cryptonic]

lol I think i have been guilty of this at one point.

Probably involving Banana

I probably have been guilty of it outside of FM. Not sure if I've ever reported a non-rule breaking Forum Mafia post.

[BananaCucho]

This x19273891273

If people just told others to stop and that they don't appreciate it, then 99% of the people would stop. And the 1% would get weeded out as the true toxic players. As I said, we are human and we can get upset/frustrated. But we can also feel empathy.


But instead, this is what happens every time:

Player A insults
Player B gets upset
Player B reports post
Player B replies with insults
Player A replies with insults
Player B reports post
Player B replies with more insults
Player A & B both get infracted because the conversation was reported
Player A gets mad @ Player B for reporting
Player B gets mad @ Admin because they think they are completely innocent and should be allowed to respond with hate and go unpunished because they didn't initiate


Where is the logic in these situations? How can you report someone for something, and then carry out the same actions? And I'm not joking, this literally happens 99% of the time someone reports a post in game. Just blows my mind that the people who complain about the toxicity on this site are willing to do it themselves. They don't try to help the situation at all.

Once you get a taste of the poison its addictive and hard to reject. Has to be a group effort IMO.