Welp

[DarknessB]

Lol damn. Let's just hope they don't overturn the vote and make Trump step down. It was an informed decision, everyone had the information they needed to cast their votes, and they did. Fighting against the result means fighting against the democratic process... and therefore fighting American ideals. The votes have been counted, and Trump won. They need to get over it.

Trump isn't stepping down and just think about the type of precedent that would be struck if any time you didn't like the results of an election, just protest until the person resigns. Part of living in a civilized society is accepting the results of elections whether you like them or not. Doing more next time is the answer, not turning into a baby.

[Orpz]

Lol damn. Let's just hope they don't overturn the vote and make Trump step down. It was an informed decision, everyone had the information they needed to cast their votes, and they did. Fighting against the result means fighting against the democratic process... and therefore fighting American ideals. The votes have been counted, and Trump won. They need to get over it.

The vote won't be overturned, and anyone who's unironically putting their hopes in that is deluded tbqh. I will accept Trump as my president and I hope he does better than my expectations.


(Name one modern Republican presidency that wasn't complete shit)

[Helz]

The vote won't be overturned, and anyone who's unironically putting their hopes in that is deluded tbqh. I will accept Trump as my president and I hope he does better than my expectations.


(Name one modern Republican presidency that wasn't complete shit)

Lol Should not be hard for him to do. Nobody has very high expectations. With this attitude you will probably be very happy

[PowersThatBe]

It's a bunch of ultraleft radicals who are too dumb / lazy to vote or direct their anger appropriately (i.e. toward stuff that could make a difference in the future). Basically, the Occupy Wall Street type community. Protesting makes them feel like they're making a difference or something like that.

SLOWWWWW THIS DOWN. First, it's not a bunch of too dumb and too lazy to vote people. It is made up of people who feel that their rights, gay, black, latina, muslim etc are going to disappear under this regime. They are angry, confused, sad, and don't know how else to get their anger out. A lot of them, if not most, if not all of them voted. So please do not drop them in a box and call them stupid or lazy or ill-informed. You have probably no idea what if feels like to live in an america where you are only guaranteed another 2 months of protection before everything around you might crash and burn.

Yes I agree, protesting is great because it gives a literal and visual voice to all those who would otherwise complain online. People getting out and exercising their right to protest are doing a hell of a lot more than us. We're talking back and forth, they're out there mobilizing.

Riots, I do not agree with or support. Nor do I support violence. But what everyone here needs to understand is that this Trump presidency has already embolden the racist, homophobes, xenophobes, and the sexists to act. One of my friends from grad school was attacked today for no other reason than being gay, in Philadelphia, which is widely more liberal than not. I've seen other stories of voice and mistreatment to latino/a's and muslims, chanting build the wall or tearing a muslims religious headwear off.

Protests are where this begins, but unlike occupy, this cannot become all it is. We need to mobilize for 2018, we need to start working with our council members, local and state reps. Some of us might even need to step up and run for office. We cannot count on others to protect us anymore, we need to get more heavily involved. That means using social media to mobilize and not to just complain.

This is the beginning of a revolution. Join us.

[Helz]

Legit question- I am totally one of those 'uninformed' people which is why I did not vote. But every time I hear people say things like "Trump is going to get rid of the gay, black, latina, muslim" groups I wonder why they feel that way. Sure Trump may be an old white racist clown but what president besides Obama was not? He is just less hidden about it. And I have never seen anyone point to some outlined policy from Trump that suggests he will do anything of the sort. I rarely watch the mainstream news but I was under the impression that he is just championing removing illegal immigrates. So many people are saying this same thing that it makes me wonder.. What am I missing?

[SuperJack]

[Helz]

This makes sense. Trump is secretly gay

[BananaCucho]

Legit question- I am totally one of those 'uninformed' people which is why I did not vote. But every time I hear people say things like "Trump is going to get rid of the gay, black, latina, muslim" groups I wonder why they feel that way. Sure Trump may be an old white racist clown but what president besides Obama was not? He is just less hidden about it. And I have never seen anyone point to some outlined policy from Trump that suggests he will do anything of the sort. I rarely watch the mainstream news but I was under the impression that he is just championing removing illegal immigrates. So many people are saying this same thing that it makes me wonder.. What am I missing?

Just off the top of my head he said he would consider appointing a supreme court justice that would specifically overturn the marriage equality decision, and he also did mention a Muslim database for Muslim Americans and that he would consider closing down mosques even though that stance isn't very popular cause freedom of religion.

He also said he would try to censor parts of the internet and said something to the effect of "those who counter this with 'freedom of speech' are silly" or something like that

[PowersThatBe]

Legit question- I am totally one of those 'uninformed' people which is why I did not vote. But every time I hear people say things like "Trump is going to get rid of the gay, black, latina, muslim" groups I wonder why they feel that way. Sure Trump may be an old white racist clown but what president besides Obama was not? He is just less hidden about it. And I have never seen anyone point to some outlined policy from Trump that suggests he will do anything of the sort. I rarely watch the mainstream news but I was under the impression that he is just championing removing illegal immigrates. So many people are saying this same thing that it makes me wonder.. What am I missing?

It's not trump. Well trump said things about latinos and muslims, and his party might support those ideas. Let's hope not. -- He's already planned to undo a lot of Obama's executive orders dealing with immigration and such.

In regards to LGBTQ rights. Mike Pence is arguably one of the most anti gay figures in politics. #1 guy in senate, a heart beat away from the presidency. He wants to make being gay illegal, he would like to fund conversion therapy, he is for taking away marriage equality. He is going to try and strip our rights. The republicans will more than likely not fight this because they all are pretty much unified on this front.

Trump will appoint conservative judges to the supreme court, this court will lean conservative, and perhaps in a few years will have a super majority of judges. At some point, Marriage Equality could and probably will go out the window. Congress is already working with hate groups like NOM (National Organization for Marriage) to get this shit done. Also, Obama had executive orders protecting gays and transgendered people. Trump is going to undo all of that.

You all will see a major shift in this country in which many americans will not be safe or feel included anymore. It's great that some of you can be apathetic because it'll never affect your life. But for many of us, shit is going to get real bad, and this country will not look like america anymore.

I am trying to keep an open mind, but I do not trust the republican party and they are going to do what they can to roll back my rights. It's so pitiful.

[DarknessB]

"Elections have consequences and at the end of the day, I won."
- Donald Trump

Spoiler : Further context :

Oh wait -- that was actually Obama in 2009!

[oops_ur_dead]

It's a bunch of ultraleft radicals who are too dumb / lazy to vote or direct their anger appropriately (i.e. toward stuff that could make a difference in the future). Basically, the Occupy Wall Street type community. Protesting makes them feel like they're making a difference or something like that.

It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths when Trump got less votes than Hillary but won due to an antiquated election process.

[BananaCucho]

It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths when Trump got less votes than Hillary but won due to an antiquated election process.

The last two elected Republicans won this way O.O

[DarknessB]

It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths when Trump got less votes than Hillary but won due to an antiquated election process.

Except there are very few people in those protests talking about electoral politics. They're talking about the Trump boogeyman who is going to magically roll back civil rights / civil liberties. Good luck winning the electorate back with that type of whining and fearmongering. Pretty sure constantly being called racists / sexists / homophobes is part of why the rust belt turned against Hillary.

[PowersThatBe]

Except there are very few people in those protests talking about electoral politics. They're talking about the Trump boogeyman who is going to magically roll back civil rights / civil liberties. Good luck winning the electorate back with that type of whining and fearmongering. Pretty sure constantly being called racists / sexists / homophobes is part of why the rust belt turned against Hillary.

HE'S NOT MAGICALLY DOING ANYTHING. A LOT OF WHAT OBAMA DID WAS EXECUTIVE ACTION, WHICH TRUMP HAS THE AUTHORITY TO TAKE AWAY WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH CONGRESS. HE HAS EXPRESSED DESIRE TO DO THIS. It is part of his first 100 days.

Look into the FIRST AMENDMENT DEFENSE ACT.


Also, see post above about NOM and other shit.

When the KKK endorses the candidate what do you expect people to think?

[DarknessB]

HE'S NOT MAGICALLY DOING ANYTHING. A LOT OF WHAT OBAMA DID WAS EXECUTIVE ACTION, WHICH TRUMP HAS THE AUTHORITY TO TAKE AWAY WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH CONGRESS. HE HAS EXPRESSED DESIRE TO DO THIS. It is part of his first 100 days.

Look into the FIRST AMENDMENT DEFENSE ACT.


Also, see post above about NOM and other shit.

When the KKK endorses the candidate what do you expect people to think?

Somehow, executive actions were this undemocratic abusive tool to end-run around Congress when Bush was president, but are now this amazing blessing from the heavens when Obama became president. Convince people you're right without yelling, hysteria, and calling them bigots and you will have a better shot in 2018. Keep demonizing half the population and the Dems will continue to lose elections.

[Tossangel]

I saw a video of a high school girl getting beat up because she posted to Twitter that she hoped Trump won. A girl approached her and said "Do you hate Mexicans?" She said "No". The girl replied "You support Trump. You hate Mexicans" then proceeded to physically attack her. The girl never said she hated Mexicans and Trump didn't either. Just because he does not agree with illegal immigration does not equate to hating Mexicans. I guess we can put some of the blame on the hateful campaigns that used fear to try to get people to vote. There is disgusting the violence coming from both sides. This is way out of control. I hope this calms down soon.

[Orpz]

Somehow, executive actions were this undemocratic abusive tool to end-run around Congress when Bush was president, but are now this amazing blessing from the heavens when Obama became president. Convince people you're right without yelling, hysteria, and calling them bigots and you will have a better shot in 2018. Keep demonizing half the population and the Dems will continue to lose elections.

Voting for someone you normally wouldnt vote for just because the other side hurt your fee-fees

200 iq move

[PowersThatBe]

Somehow, executive actions were this undemocratic abusive tool to end-run around Congress when Bush was president, but are now this amazing blessing from the heavens when Obama became president. Convince people you're right without yelling, hysteria, and calling them bigots and you will have a better shot in 2018. Keep demonizing half the population and the Dems will continue to lose elections.

Look at what Obama used his for and look at what Bush used his for. There is no comparison. And sure, each side will complain when someone does something.

But you trivializing voters/protestors and calling them stupid or un-informed and then try to flip back and say democrats demonize people?

We only yell when we're talked over, and it's hilarious because I never met a right winger who ever let me finish a sentence. That's not true, I know two of them.

And maybe if your side didn't support people and policies that were offensive/destructive to the lives of LGBTQ, black, latino Americans etc. Maybe they wouldn't get that label. When you support a candidate that wants to upend the 1st amendment by banning people based on religion, and wants to put them into a data base and take down mosques, we have a problem. When you support a candidate that says he wants to grab women by their genitals, calls them all sorts of names and rates them on scales. We think you're sexist. When you support a candidate endorsed by the KKK, we think you support racism.

So now it's demonizing to call people by the names of thing things that they either are complicit in supporting or either apathetic in not denouncing. Those of us who already feel marginalized feel even worse now because we know our rights could and probably will go out the window with an un checked congress and president.

Anyhow. We're going to win in 2018. You'll be begging for a democrat after these idiots are in office.

Kiss America goodbye.

[PowersThatBe]

I saw a video of a high school girl getting beat up because she posted to Twitter that she hoped Trump won. A girl approached her and said "Do you hate Mexicans?" She said "No". The girl replied "You support Trump. You hate Mexicans" then proceeded to physically attack her. The girl never said she hated Mexicans and Trump didn't either. Just because he does not agree with illegal immigration does not equate to hating Mexicans. I guess we can put some of the blame on the hateful campaigns that used fear to try to get people to vote. There is disgusting the violence coming from both sides. This is way out of control. I hope this calms down soon.

There's a difference between belonging to an oppressed group and striking back against people who support oppressor. Violence is never the answer. But i think it's different when someone attacks you because you're gay. It's different when someone attacks you win you're muslim. If someone is attacking you for supporting trump, it's because they know someone who is losing something or everything and they don't know how to handle their anger. People who attack other people because of race, sexual orientation etc. are any number of ism that applies.

I don't condone violence and I hope both sides do calm down. But if trump and congress do half the things we fear they're going to do, hold on to your hats kids. It's going to be very bad.

[DarknessB]

In 2018, Democrats are defending 23 Senate seats and Republicans only 8 (7 in red states and 1 in a swing state). In other words, good luck with taking the Senate back then. Dems had their big chance this year and they choked.

[PowersThatBe]

In 2018, Democrats are defending 23 Senate seats and Republicans only 8 (7 in red states and 1 in a swing state). In other words, good luck with taking the Senate back then. Dems had their big chance this year and they choked.

Ha, the house is up in 2018. We're taking it back. Trust me, the anger and frustration we feel now is not going away. We're stopping this man and this congress.

[DarknessB]

Ha, the house is up in 2018. We're taking it back. Trust me, the anger and frustration we feel now is not going away. We're stopping this man and this congress.

Good luck with that -- Dems haven't won the house since 2008 (that Obama enthusiasm isn't coming back) and Democrats don't turn out during midterm elections nearly as much as in presidential years. It's much more fun to argue with facts than raw emotion.

[PowersThatBe]

Good luck with that -- Dems haven't won the house since 2008 (that Obama enthusiasm isn't coming back) and Democrats don't turn out during midterm elections nearly as much as in presidential years. It's much more fun to argue with facts than raw emotion.

Sure, I'll give you that. But you have no idea how deeply damaging and hurtful this election was...and it's result. All I can say, just like every poll and every bit of empirical data that said trump would lose was wrong. You cannot trust history. We're awake now. In 2008 we had the WH and people didn't think there was much to lose, so they didn't go out. Now we're not in the WH and our rights are directly in danger you will see liberal turn out spikes.

We're already mobilizing. All I can say is the people who elected trump will regret it, and just be ready for 2018 and 2020 when we take this back and get everything back on track and moving forward. Also, Republicans will vote for democratic house once they see how shitty repubs do controlling all both houses and the wh.

I vote every election. I'm getting more involved at the local and state level now. No one can protect me but me.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

People people calm down. Trump has the potential to be a good president, and in no way is going to "take away" anybody's rights.

To the very intelligent left side, if you want to stand a chance in the next election get your shit together. All your mindless protesting/rioting and whining is truly deplorable.

[DarknessB]

There's a difference between belonging to an oppressed group and striking back against people who support oppressor. Violence is never the answer. But i think it's different when someone attacks you because you're gay. It's different when someone attacks you win you're muslim. If someone is attacking you for supporting trump, it's because they know someone who is losing something or everything and they don't know how to handle their anger. People who attack other people because of race, sexual orientation etc. are any number of ism that applies.

I don't condone violence and I hope both sides do calm down. But if trump and congress do half the things we fear they're going to do, hold on to your hats kids. It's going to be very bad.

Let me guess -- you're one of those people who thinks it's impossible for a minority to commit a hate crime against a non-minority? You basically just said violence is ok if someone supports a candidate / party that you personally find racist / sexist / homophobic. You also basically just said you don't support violence but people would deserve it if they enact changes you don't like...

[DarknessB]

People people calm down. Trump has the potential to be a good president, and in no way is going to "take away" anybody's rights.

To the very intelligent left side, if you want to stand a chance in the next election get your shit together. All your mindless protesting/rioting and whining is truly deplorable.

I'm terrified that I agree with you for once.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm terrified that I agree with you for once.

Did we just become best friends?

[PowersThatBe]

Let me guess -- you're one of those people who thinks it's impossible for a minority to commit a hate crime against a non-minority? You basically just said violence is ok if someone supports a candidate / party that you personally find racist / sexist / homophobic. You also basically just said you don't support violence but people would deserve it if they enact changes you don't like...

That's not what i said. Any one can be guilty of committing a hate crime. But you need to realize I was saying I don't personally support violence AGAINST anyone. But I can understand why someone who is about to lose everything in their mind might strike out against someone who supported the person who is going to take away everything they love. They can't hit Trump so they hit the Trump supporter. They're rationalizing it in their mind. Does that mean I find that OK? No. Does it mean I can understand how someone can become so angry, confused, frustrated, and anxious that they don't know what to do.. sure.. I can understand how someone went down a path they went down. Does that mean I in any way condone, or endorse it? No.

I do like how you preach all this shit about not demonizing people but you try to tell me what I do and don't think. Ha. Hilarious. You'll see what a disaster electing Trump will be.

[Orpz]

It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths when Trump got less votes than Hillary but won due to an antiquated election process.

It definitely doesn't feel good when the rural areas get affirmative action to beat out the city areas.

[PowersThatBe]

People people calm down. Trump has the potential to be a good president, and in no way is going to "take away" anybody's rights.

To the very intelligent left side, if you want to stand a chance in the next election get your shit together. All your mindless protesting/rioting and whining is truly deplorable.

You realize it's not trump. Its the house and senate and the very conservative supreme court justices he will appoint. Mike Pence has already confirmed Trump is going to be anti LGBTQ, and the NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE. Which goal is to get rid of gay marriage is already "looking forward to working with President Trump." to overturn Marriage Equality. Trump said marriage is between man and woman. This is also a majority of republicans stance as well. So yes, those rights are going out the window.

[DarknessB]

You realize it's not trump. Its the house and senate and the very conservative supreme court justices he will appoint. Mike Pence has already confirmed Trump is going to be anti LGBTQ, and the NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE. Which goal is to get rid of gay marriage is already "looking forward to working with President Trump." to overturn Marriage Equality. Trump said marriage is between man and woman. This is also a majority of republicans stance as well. So yes, those rights are going out the window.

Dude, there was a Supreme Court case legalizing gay marriage. There's not going to be a constitutional amendment changing that and most Republicans realize that culture war is long over and don't really care about the issue (other than appealing to idiots). You really need to lay off the paranoia -- gay marriage is here to stay and just about everyone accepts that. Insanity like this does not win votes.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You realize it's not trump. Its the house and senate and the very conservative supreme court justices he will appoint. Mike Pence has already confirmed Trump is going to be anti LGBTQ, and the NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MARRIAGE. Which goal is to get rid of gay marriage is already "looking forward to working with President Trump." to overturn Marriage Equality. Trump said marriage is between man and woman. This is also a majority of republicans stance as well. So yes, those rights are going out the window.

I'll agree with your pence concerns, that guy is lol, but I find it hard to fathom gay marriage gets repealed.

[PowersThatBe]

Dude, there was a Supreme Court case legalizing gay marriage. There's not going to be a constitutional amendment changing that and most Republicans realize that culture war is long over and don't really care about the issue (other than appealing to idiots). You really need to lay off the paranoia -- gay marriage is here to stay and just about everyone accepts that. Insanity like this does not win votes.

Ha, I wish I had the privilege to not worry or care about that happening or not. Supreme court cases can and do get retried. And you will see it get brought back to the supreme court. Mike Pence is very anti gay and believes in conversion "treatments" for gays.

You are so ignorant if you really don't think they're not going to roll back LGBTQ rights, including marriage. They'll get it overturned in the Supreme Court.

It's not paranoia when it's very likely to happen. Will you apologize to me personally if it does?

[DarknessB]

Ha, I wish I had the privilege to not worry or care about that happening or not. Supreme court cases can and do get retried. And you will see it get brought back to the supreme court. Mike Pence is very anti gay and believes in conversion "treatments" for gays.

You are so ignorant if you really don't think they're not going to roll back LGBTQ rights, including marriage. They'll get it overturned in the Supreme Court.

It's not paranoia when it's very likely to happen. Will you apologize to me personally if it does?

When was the last time a landmark Supreme Court granting civil rights was rolled back? Roe v. Wade? Nope. Brown v. Board? Nope. It hasn't happened and won't change.

Yes, if the Supreme Court literally overturns gay marriage, I will apologize to you. I expect the same thing if it doesn't happen within the next 4-8 years.

[Orpz]

Will you apologize to me personally if it does?

Funny story...I was talking to my cousin before the election and he was telling me about how "it's all over, the Jews in DC that control the world have already decided Hillary will be President. All the voting machines have been rigged to ensure this will happen". Being my cousin and the fact that I love him, I fought back the urge to call his thought fucking retarded.

He apologized personally after and we laughed about it and it was bit of joy after a crushing defeat.

[Sino]

As an outsider, it looks like Trump was the better choice because he seems the less encline to go to war, now of course, this could be false, but i'd like to have your opinion about it, do you think Hillary would have meant some kind of new world war ?

[Lysergic]

Dude, there was a Supreme Court case legalizing gay marriage. There's not going to be a constitutional amendment changing that and most Republicans realize that culture war is long over and don't really care about the issue (other than appealing to idiots). You really need to lay off the paranoia -- gay marriage is here to stay and just about everyone accepts that. Insanity like this does not win votes.

Also it's not like the make up of the Supreme Court will change if Trump gets to nominate a conservative instead of Congress voting on Garland. Scalia was the most conservative justice; even if Trump puts someone just as conservative in place, the Supreme Court will be roughly the same as the one that ruled on gay marriage.

While Pence is undoubtedly an asshole (and I fully expect he and Trump to pull other shenanigans in regards to gay people - for example defunding HIV programs or whatnot), neither he nor Trump has the power to do anything about the gay marriage ruling, and they certainly don't have the power to make homosexuality a crime. If they tried, they would get smacked down by the Supreme Court (and the Democrats + moderate Republicans in Congress who have come around to a more enlightened way of thinking) so incredibly fast. Plus the American public would just not stand for it.

There is a lot to be nervous about from a Trump/Pence administration (especially in regards to the environment, foreign policy, nuclear policy, immigration, and the economy), but the idea that they are going to put gays in death camps is not one of them.

[Orpz]

As an outsider, it looks like Trump was the better choice because he seems the less encline to go to war, now of course, this could be false, but i'd like to have your opinion about it, do you think Hillary would have meant some kind of new world war ?

Nobody benefits from starting a new world war. Saying your opponent wants to start WW3 is a time-tested tactic that has been around since at least the 1964 election.

[Lysergic]

As an outsider, it looks like Trump was the better choice because he seems the less encline to go to war, now of course, this could be false, but i'd like to have your opinion about it, do you think Hillary would have meant some kind of new world war ?

Eh; I think it's too early to say. Trump has historically not reacted well to criticism (filing frivolous lawsuits to bully opponents, generally getting pissed off and saying idiotic shit in response to minor slights) and has made some disturbing remarks on the campaign trail especially in regards to his views on nukes ("if they have them, why shouldn't we use them?"). He also has repeatedly said that he will go to war with ISIS, though has not gone into specifics. Simply that under him America would destroy ISIS, but somehow not actually put boots on the ground.


Honestly, the main fear with Trump is that he's a big question mark. During the campaign, his opinions on policy changed with the wind and were often contradictory. Nobody has any idea if he's going to be a complete isolationist or if he's going to declare a bunch of wars. It could go either way.


The uncertainty with Trump is what is fueling market crashes around the world right now.

[Lysergic]

Ha, I wish I had the privilege to not worry or care about that happening or not. Supreme court cases can and do get retried. And you will see it get brought back to the supreme court. Mike Pence is very anti gay and believes in conversion "treatments" for gays.

You are so ignorant if you really don't think they're not going to roll back LGBTQ rights, including marriage. They'll get it overturned in the Supreme Court.

It's not paranoia when it's very likely to happen. Will you apologize to me personally if it does?

Which justices do you think will change their opinion?

[Sino]

Eh; I think it's too early to say. Trump has historically not reacted well to criticism (filing frivolous lawsuits to bully opponents, generally getting pissed off and saying idiotic shit in response to minor slights) and has made some disturbing remarks on the campaign trail especially in regards to his views on nukes ("if they have them, why shouldn't we use them?"). He also has repeatedly said that he will go to war with ISIS, though has not gone into specifics. Simply that under him America would destroy ISIS, but somehow not actually put boots on the ground.


Honestly, the main fear with Trump is that he's a big question mark. During the campaign, his opinions on policy changed with the wind and were often contradictory. Nobody has any idea if he's going to be a complete isolationist or if he's going to declare a bunch of wars. It could go either way.


The uncertainty with Trump is what is fueling market crashes around the world right now.

Well, as long as tensions between the US and Russia get reduced, there might be some hope.

[DarknessB]

Also it's not like the make up of the Supreme Court will change if Trump gets to nominate a conservative instead of Congress voting on Garland. Scalia was the most conservative justice; even if Trump puts someone just as conservative in place, the Supreme Court will be roughly the same as the one that ruled on gay marriage.

While Pence is undoubtedly an asshole (and I fully expect he and Trump to pull other shenanigans in regards to gay people - for example defunding HIV programs or whatnot), neither he nor Trump has the power to do anything about the gay marriage ruling, and they certainly don't have the power to make homosexuality a crime. If they tried, they would get smacked down by the Supreme Court (and the Democrats + moderate Republicans in Congress who have come around to a more enlightened way of thinking) so incredibly fast. Plus the American public would just not stand for it.

There is a lot to be nervous about from a Trump/Pence administration (especially in regards to the environment, foreign policy, nuclear policy, immigration, and the economy), but the idea that they are going to put gays in death camps is not one of them.

There's also a fundamental legal doctrine called "stare decisis" which basically says "adhere to previous cases". There's no way in hell the Supreme Court, having just decided for gay marriage, is going to flip flop and say "oops, we messed up -- it's actually not allowed".

It'd make them look foolish and undermine public faith in the Supreme Court as an impartial interpreter of the constitution. Roberts, in particular, is very sensitive toward this criticism, which is largely seen as one of the main reasons he voted to uphold Obamacare. Kennedy is moderate conservative at best. The only hardcore votes against gay marriage might be Thomas and Alito. Even if you add in Mystery Trump Appointee, at the absolute worst, the case goes down 6-3, if not more because those three might not want to look foolish given the case was just heard and decided.

[Lysergic]

Well, as long as tensions between the US and Russia get reduced, there might be some hope.

I mean, it's a little more complicated then that.

His "why can't we use nukes?" comment was in relation to North Korea, who is a close strategic ally of China. If the US nukes the DPRK, it means nuclear war with China. Even if nukes are not involved, it seems as though Trump is willing to take a violent approach to keeping North Korea's nuclear program from advancing. That will bring us into direct conflict with China.

Same goes for Russia. "Reducing tensions" with Russia means pulling out of commitments with NATO. It means pulling missile defense systems away from Russia's borders. It means essentially giving Putin a blank check to annex his neighbors. And we know for a fact that he is interested in doing this because he's already done it - twice. He annexed Crimea and he has waged an undeclared and illegal war against Ukraine. I have a lot of friends in Russia and other Balkan states, and they are all extremely nervous about a Trump presidency because it indicates that there might be war in the near future.

That's the problem; we don't have to GO to war to cause wars elsewhere in the world. The US projects military power all over the world, and that has been a lynchpin in reducing international conflicts of all kinds. If NATO is kept strong and the US stands by its commitment to treat an attack on one NATO country as an attack on ALL NATO countries, it limits Russian aggression - Putin will not go to war with NATO countries in the Balkans if he thinks it means war with the US.

The same goes for the Middle East.

And again, none of this is set in stone; it is simply based on the statements that Trump made when he was running for office. So the people who are assuming that Trump will be a peaceful president are also assuming that Trump lied on the campaign trail. That in itself is troubling, because it means we really have no idea WHAT he's going to do.

The optimistic part of me wants to think that Trump's campaign trial comments were bluster - propaganda to stir up the xenophobes and get their votes. The optimistic part of me wants to think that Trump will be rational and peaceful in office.

But if that happens, then it means we've elected someone who flat out lied on the campaign trail, which means we will never really be sure what he will do or what he wants to accomplish.

If we assume Trump was telling the truth about his goals on the campaign trail, then it pretty much directly translates to Russian wars of aggression in the Balkans, nuclear strikes on Korea, war with China, war in Syria (perhaps in an alliance with Russia), and a crumbling NATO.

And this is ignoring other statements he made on other policy issues like the economy (trade wars with China, Mexico, and Canada that will tank the global economy - perhaps to the benefit of the U.S. economy, perhaps not) or immigration (a massively expensive border wall and a massively expensive deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants - things that we cannot afford when our national debt is already high).

[PowersThatBe]

Which justices do you think will change their opinion?

it's not so much this one seat that worries me. Its the fact that we have some very old judges, and his picks are very very conservative. If good ol ruth doesn't make it in the next 4 years, and trump get's a second pick. You can kiss marriage equality good bye.

It goes from 5 to 4 to legalize it to 5 to 4 to make it illegal. My concern isn't even for me necessarily. I live in a state that still legalized it before supreme court made it nationwide.

It's more than marriage equality, but that's our biggest fear. An unchecked congress could do damage. You might not take away marriage, but there's other things you can do to undermine the marriage using religious liberty as a citation.

Think I'm being paranoid? Read this: cwww.lgbtqnation.com/2016/09/donald-trump-pledges-sign-anti-lgbtq-first-amendment-defense-act/

[Suntax]

Im happy trump was elected, so was my family and friends.
Im happy relations may now improve and maybe NATO will stop posturing on our borders.
i say to you liberals that you give trump a chance, see what he does.

My 2 cents, as a Russian im happy, im also patriotic and feel that Russia should take back the Ukraine, Belarus, the lil countries we used own near the middle east.

They once we're part of Russia.
lots of Russians there, we just gave it away.

And now I wait to be called a facist

[PowersThatBe]

There's also a fundamental legal doctrine called "stare decisis" which basically says "adhere to previous cases". There's no way in hell the Supreme Court, having just decided for gay marriage, is going to flip flop and say "oops, we messed up -- it's actually not allowed".

It'd make them look foolish and undermine public faith in the Supreme Court as an impartial interpreter of the constitution. Roberts, in particular, is very sensitive toward this criticism, which is largely seen as one of the main reasons he voted to uphold Obamacare. Kennedy is moderate conservative at best. The only hardcore votes against gay marriage might be Thomas and Alito. Even if you add in Mystery Trump Appointee, at the absolute worst, the case goes down 6-3, if not more because those three might not want to look foolish given the case was just heard and decided.

it was 5 v 4 last time. And you're just looking at the immediate circumstance. Stare Decisis is in terms of precedent. However, does not mean it cannot and will not be overturned later. Especially since Roberts wrote such a strong dissent. God, I hope someone from the more liberal side doesn't step down or anything happen to them because if they get two seats during his presidency, then it's all caput. There was enough people who fought against it on the grounds of harming their religious freedom that it can happen again.

You need to understand, marriage was passed in california then it was overturned. Then it was made legal again by supreme court. We've seen and have had it given to us and taken away, so it is not a illegitimate fear when the group that voted to take it away before has all of the power.

I am not looking at the immediate, I am looking at the next 20 years of supreme court decisions and what a second seat might mean. Hopefully my fears are for nought.

But there are other areas he can undermine our rights and marriage without going through the supreme court decision.

Stare Decisis: "Although courts seldom overrule precedent, Justice Rehnquist explained that stare decisis is not an “inexorable command.” On occasion, the Court will decide not to apply the doctrine if a prior decision is deemed unworkable. In addition, significant societal changes may also prompt the Court to overrule precedent; however, any decision to overrule precedent is exercised cautiously."

[Lysergic]

it's not so much this one seat that worries me. Its the fact that we have some very old judges, and his picks are very very conservative. If good ol ruth doesn't make it in the next 4 years, and trump get's a second pick. You can kiss marriage equality good bye.

It goes from 5 to 4 to legalize it to 5 to 4 to make it illegal. My concern isn't even for me necessarily. I live in a state that still legalized it before supreme court made it nationwide.

It's more than marriage equality, but that's our biggest fear. An unchecked congress could do damage. You might not take away marriage, but there's other things you can do to undermine the marriage using religious liberty as a citation.

Think I'm being paranoid? Read this: cwww.lgbtqnation.com/2016/09/donald-trump-pledges-sign-anti-lgbtq-first-amendment-defense-act/

You're not wrong to be nervous, but it's certainly a time will tell thing. And DB makes an excellent point in regards to stare decisis. I do not think that the Supreme Court skewing more conservative in the future will mean that they will roll back their past decisions, simply because it undermines the overall authority of the court and degrades the validity of their decisions. It is a bad precedent for them to set that judges should use their personal politics to undermine past case law. I genuinely am not concerned on the Supreme Court front.

Regarding Congress, the only way for them to roll back marriage equality after the Supreme Court decision is pretty much through a constitutional amendment, and that requires a supermajority. Even with their wins in this election, Democrats still have enough presence in Congress to prevent an amendment.

[Orpz]

Im happy trump was elected, so was my family and friends.
Im happy relations may now improve and maybe NATO will stop posturing on our borders.
i say to you liberals that you give trump a chance, see what he does.

My 2 cents, as a Russian im happy, im also patriotic and feel that Russia should take back the Ukraine, Belarus, the lil countries we used own near the middle east.

They once we're part of Russia.
lots of Russians there, we just gave it away.

And now I wait to be called a facist

I'm pretty sure your country has bigger problems than a reconquest war.

Isn't Russia planning to block access to LinkedIn? (Internet freedom being threatened)

[PowersThatBe]

You're not wrong to be nervous, but it's certainly a time will tell thing. And DB makes an excellent point in regards to stare decisis. I do not think that the Supreme Court skewing more conservative in the future will mean that they will roll back their past decisions, simply because it undermines the overall authority of the court and degrades the validity of their decisions. It is a bad precedent for them to set that judges should use their personal politics to undermine past case law. I genuinely am not concerned on the Supreme Court front.

Regarding Congress, the only way for them to roll back marriage equality after the Supreme Court decision is pretty much through a constitutional amendment, and that requires a supermajority. Even with their wins in this election, Democrats still have enough presence in Congress to prevent an amendment.

Listen, I hope so. I am trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. But the First Amendment Defense Act. NOM coming out and being excited, and many other things does not bode well for me and my fears. I hope I am just freaking out for no reason, and I hope that the supreme court wouldn't go back.

But y'all need to realize that there are some judge outs there that are very very very conservative and they think that marriage between a man and a woman is exactly what the constitution refers to in terms of marriage, and to them it would not be setting dangerous precedent because it is their sincerely held belief that the court got it wrong at the time, or the judges at that time were using the court to make political policy.

I don't know what their argument is going to be, but logically, after seeing how this thing has gone back and forth, it is very luckily they can appoint judges that can and will overturn it and wont think twice about it. Just look at Trumps shortlist now. I think a number of them said the supreme court was wrong on marriage. If you put judges in with the opinion that the previous decision was wrong, then I mean, we'll see.

But please don't be surprised if it happens. It's not like it is set in stone that it wont ever at all. Because it can and will if they're able.

[Suntax]

I'm pretty sure your country has bigger problems than a reconquest war.

Isn't Russia planning to block access to LinkedIn? (Internet freedom being threatened)

Currently we need trade (trump might help with both calming NATO and UN sanctions and opening deals) we get better trade we can make some money.

Not sure about LinkedIn, even if it's so I don't care