Repick host because I have save! But I've got a save! *leave*

[Carrein]

Could anyone please tell me what's so wrong about wanted to play the classic or random variant (DR approved) version of the game?


Usually I get shouted at for being an idiot, an ass, dumb, stupid, shit, bad, noob ... you name it. People cry so much and ragequit so easily.



But what's so good about these amazing "saves" anyway? Mazzeltof.


Usually it boils down to:


Sheriff
Investigator
doctor
jailor
random town
random town
random town
randown adv town
random adv town
GF
random maf
random maf
random neutral
random adv neutral
random neutral


You sometimes get variations with a random any (so a GF can claim he's citizen). Or masons and cultists (which are a lot more fun, regardless what foolish people say). But most of the time, it's just a boring random fest.


Can someone tell me I'm not alone, that I'm not the only one who likes the built-in setups; had lots of fun with bus drivers and citizen game.

[EagleMan]

People don't realize that anything else can be balanced and fun. They want their same-old same-old. The most variation they get is whether they have a Jester or a Witch or something. Same old 3 Mafia/SK 1/2 Neuts and Town makes up most games.

Plus the fact they whine and quit just proves they're crybabies who can't handle not getting what they want. I never quit a game just because I don't like the save. I don't want people to quit my games, so why would I quit yours? If a save really sucks so bad, then it's imbalanced and the game will be over in no time.

[Bluejay]

That's the kind of people on battle.net for you. Pubs hate it when things don't go the way they're used to.

The few times I've played Classic, a significant number of people leave because they hate getting citizen. People complain when they get citizen all the freaking time. I've never played Random, so I can't say anything about that...except that nobody ever chooses it.

EDIT: What bothers me more is when people keep asking to use their own save when whoever the host is has one. Then they complain about the host's save and say theirs is better for no reason. Don't like the save because it's not yours? Tough. You don't deserve to be host anyway. (Unless it's a really screwy one. I played a game once that had 8 SKs and 7 arsonists who couldn't kill each other, which was one of the stupidest games I've ever played.)

[LeaD]

Detective
Lookout
Bodyguard
Vigilante (2shots)
Jester
Random Mafia (excludes killing roles)
Random Mafia (excludes killing roles)
Adv. Mafia
Rand. Neutral (killing only)
Rand Any (Neutral only non killing)
Basic Town (exclude cit)
Random Town (exclude cit)
Random Town (exclude cit)
Adv. Town
Adv. Town

well i won't dig up all the options now, but i found this setup very balanced and fun to play (my own creation)
obv. dets and lookouts bypass detection immunity, bodyguard kills immune roles aswell
The reason for the default roles are as follows:
Bodyguard - instead of a doc, docs are way too versatile by always being able to save a certain "confirmed investigative role" also works pretty well with lookouts to protect investigative roles 1 time only
Lookout / Detective - Replaces the role detecting bullshit roles, although they may be randomed, they cannot be claimed for sure. Moreover the following type of investigative roles have a good dynamic, although they cant protect from death, the lookout can watch the detective if he gets attacked. They also have a good dynamic going with the Jester poke, causing more confusion
Jester - As i already said, the jester can finally use his poke ability to the fullest with detective and lookout. If he gets a detective on him, and manages to visit 2 targets in consecutive nights, he is almost guaranteed a lynch. I personally like the skilful use of the jester better than the trolling use. Also it's a bit easier to get the Jester wins screen with this setup
No GF - Helps the Jester get the jester wins screen, if vigi mafioso and jester are left, they can shoot each other leaving the jester victorious. Also this enables more diverse mafia role wins (3 random maf roles instead of 2, almost everybody should have won as GF by now) -> a bit easier to go for all mafia roles
Vigi - i hate the jailor since he is way too versatile of a role, possibly the most powerful role in the game. Vigi doesn't have the roleblock, protect, kill if needed, but he has 2 shots to put em to good use (also he can confirm rand neutral killers if they survive). Also he helps the very rare instance of the jester wins as already stated

Btw, the default sheriff doc invest jailor setup has ridiculously high town strength compared to the other factions, which in my book ultimately means that the setup sux (usually 15 points for a town win)

[EliteMarine]

I agree with EagleMan.

"If the role can't kill, or do something awesome, then the hell with you."
-Theme from average Mafia player

Yeah that about sums it up. No one likes to play the classic version. I agree that it the classic version is fun, but people want to do stuff. It is how it goes...people like to kill...and do stuff.

I get ripped on my save all the time becuase it has 1 citizen in it...
Save is fine all the way down, but that I citizen and then it immediately gets "horrible save" comments.

It sucks I know...

[Carrein]

Detective
Lookout
Bodyguard
Vigilante (2shots)
Jester
Random Mafia (excludes killing roles)
Random Mafia (excludes killing roles)
Adv. Mafia
Rand. Neutral (killing only)
Rand Any (Neutral only non killing)
Basic Town (exclude cit)
Random Town (exclude cit)
Random Town (exclude cit)
Adv. Town
Adv. Town

well i won't dig up all the options now, but i found this setup very balanced and fun to play (my own creation)
obv. dets and lookouts bypass detection immunity, bodyguard kills immune roles aswell
The reason for the default roles are as follows:
Bodyguard - instead of a doc, docs are way too versatile by always being able to save a certain "confirmed investigative role" also works pretty well with lookouts to protect investigative roles 1 time only
Lookout / Detective - Replaces the role detecting bullshit roles, although they may be randomed, they cannot be claimed for sure. Moreover the following type of investigative roles have a good dynamic, although they cant protect from death, the lookout can watch the detective if he gets attacked. They also have a good dynamic going with the Jester poke, causing more confusion
Jester - As i already said, the jester can finally use his poke ability to the fullest with detective and lookout. If he gets a detective on him, and manages to visit 2 targets in consecutive nights, he is almost guaranteed a lynch. I personally like the skilful use of the jester better than the trolling use. Also it's a bit easier to get the Jester wins screen with this setup
No GF - Helps the Jester get the jester wins screen, if vigi mafioso and jester are left, they can shoot each other leaving the jester victorious. Also this enables more diverse mafia role wins (3 random maf roles instead of 2, almost everybody should have won as GF by now) -> a bit easier to go for all mafia roles
Vigi - i hate the jailor since he is way too versatile of a role, possibly the most powerful role in the game. Vigi doesn't have the roleblock, protect, kill if needed, but he has 2 shots to put em to good use (also he can confirm rand neutral killers if they survive). Also he helps the very rare instance of the jester wins as already stated

Btw, the default sheriff doc invest jailor setup has ridiculously high town strength compared to the other factions, which in my book ultimately means that the setup sux (usually 15 points for a town win)

I really like your setup even though it doesn't have citizens (which I like). Could you elaborate more on your exact options?

People complain about not having a GF and if you exclude killing roles, one of them will automatically turn into a mafioso...

[EliteMarine]

I'll share my save and talk about what I did when making my save.





Voting Style
Ballot + Trial

Save
Godfather
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Investigator
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Jailor
Mayor
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Neutral
Random Neutral
Random Any

Notable Role Options
Witch: Victim does not know he is controlled
Arsonist: Victim does know he is doused
Random Town: Excludes Citizen
Random Any: Excludes Mafia

**MAFIA**
So as expected the Godfather is a defined role. No suprise there. Then you have the 2 mafia to go with them. I leave both these roles as random mafia. Reason being is it gives mafia some wiggle room when it comes to disguising their roles. (Usually). Plus town has to do a little detective work/teamwork to figure out what the other 2 mafia roles are. Now it could be obvious as night one when someone is blackmailed or the dead target is cleaned day 2 or it may take sometime if the mafia is a Consigliere or Consort. If you are sitting there and the save defines Consigliere and Janitor. Then it gives the Investigator and easy inside track into finding who mafia is. Just look for the invest/consig find or the coroner/janitor message and town immediately has upper hand. On a bonus side of things, every mafia role is possible through this save so you can get different varieties of mafia. One game its GF, Consig, and Disguiser...next game it is GF, Blackmailer, Mafioso. So anyone looking for a particular mafia role win can get it in this save.

**TOWN**
So town I have always believed should be large and plentiful. Any save with only 6 townies should be cast to the depths of hell in my opinion. If I see a save like that, I beg to be Mafia or Neutral Role. Town is screwed. So in this save I have 9 town. (10 if you include the possibility of random any). Which to me is a fair number of town. So when it came to defining town roles, I took a minute and asked myself what is fair for town as well as the roles that you would most likely see in a REAL TOWN in REAL LIFE. Well I can very well see a Sheriff in a town with a town Investigator. Every town should have a doctor. Every town should have its leader, the Mayor. Every town should have a jail...which is owned by a jailor. And the most arguable role...every town has the citizen. Now from a Mafia standpoint, A town having at least one Sheriff and one Investigator is a no brainer. Gotta have some roles to find Mafia. Having a Doctor is a no brainer, there should be at least one healer. Every town should have a role block in my opinion/a killing role...which is our jailor. Town should have at least one Power Role which is our mayor...similar to the Godfather for Mafia. The citizen I have in the save because its a helpful counter role for Godfather. So just becuase invest finds a citizen, doesn't automatically make him the Godfather which was the case in many situations. Plus citizens can win 1v1's with mafia and protect themselves for one night. Sometimes, you need a quiter/less active townie. I hate dislike saves where every freak townie can either jail/shoot/alert/kill/detect/...there can be a role where you can kinda relax and focus on staying alive.

So when it comes to the randoms, it allows for a unique town every game. You will have your "core" town as well as some other roles like Vigilante's and Bus Drivers. So with the randoms you are never going to get the same town twice. This will also allow mafia a little wiggle room when trying to lie thier way from suspicion/lynching. When roles aren't defined, you get little more strategy and honestly a bit more fun. Evil roles get some room to lie. It creates a bit of excitement in my opinion. This save can have 3 or 4 random town thanks to the random any. The random any can only be town or neutral as mafia is excluded. And also, every town role is playable. Nothing is neglected or left out.

**NUETRAL**
There are 2 nuetral roles with a possible 3rd thanks to random any. I have always been a firm believer that Nuetral Roles should NEVER BE DEFINED. Why you ask? Becuase it gives them a shot at winning. It is kind of tough to win as a Jester or an Executioner if the damn role list shows a jester and executioner. Less people will believe you when you shout mafia claiming to be a sheriff and less people will be likely to lynch suspicious people in fear of Jester. These are the kind of roles that are awesome when NO ONE is expecting it by default. The same can apply for the Witch. If the witch is on the role list...then town will be ready for a witch hunt, and the witch role can be tough enough to win with by itself. Again, the witch should be able to operate without early suspicion. I also like it when the target does not know they are being controlled. If the target does know, a.) It reveals a witch (no fun for witch) b.) The target knows that his ability is tarnished. So if you witch a Sheriff and sheriff finds a mafia, then the sheriff will immediately dismiss his read...thus taking the fun out of being a witch. The witch was meant for disruption and chaos.

To be fair, the Serial Killer and Arson are probably the 2 nuetral roles that can be defined. The SK will be obvious after n1 kill. Arsonist is more or less of a toss up.

**IN SUMMARY**
*All roles are playable
*Nuetral Roles are not obvious right away
*Mafia Roles are not obvious right away
*Town is plentiful and balanced
*Evil has wiggle room

[Brendan]

I'll share my save and talk about what I did when making my save.





Voting Style
Ballot + Trial

Save
Godfather
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Investigator
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Jailor
Mayor
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Neutral
Random Neutral
Random Any

Notable Role Options
Witch: Victim does not know he is controlled
Arsonist: Victim does know he is doused
Random Town: Excludes Citizen
Random Any: Excludes Mafia

**MAFIA**
So as expected the Godfather is a defined role. No suprise there. Then you have the 2 mafia to go with them. I leave both these roles as random mafia. Reason being is it gives mafia some wiggle room when it comes to disguising their roles. (Usually). Plus town has to do a little detective work/teamwork to figure out what the other 2 mafia roles are. Now it could be obvious as night one when someone is blackmailed or the dead target is cleaned day 2 or it may take sometime if the mafia is a Consigliere or Consort. If you are sitting there and the save defines Consigliere and Janitor. Then it gives the Investigator and easy inside track into finding who mafia is. Just look for the invest/consig find or the coroner/janitor message and town immediately has upper hand. On a bonus side of things, every mafia role is possible through this save so you can get different varieties of mafia. One game its GF, Consig, and Disguiser...next game it is GF, Blackmailer, Mafioso. So anyone looking for a particular mafia role win can get it in this save.

**TOWN**
So town I have always believed should be large and plentiful. Any save with only 6 townies should be cast to the depths of hell in my opinion. If I see a save like that, I beg to be Mafia or Neutral Role. Town is screwed. So in this save I have 9 town. (10 if you include the possibility of random any). Which to me is a fair number of town. So when it came to defining town roles, I took a minute and asked myself what is fair for town as well as the roles that you would most likely see in a REAL TOWN in REAL LIFE. Well I can very well see a Sheriff in a town with a town Investigator. Every town should have a doctor. Every town should have its leader, the Mayor. Every town should have a jail...which is owned by a jailor. And the most arguable role...every town has the citizen. Now from a Mafia standpoint, A town having at least one Sheriff and one Investigator is a no brainer. Gotta have some roles to find Mafia. Having a Doctor is a no brainer, there should be at least one healer. Every town should have a role block in my opinion/a killing role...which is our jailor. Town should have at least one Power Role which is our mayor...similar to the Godfather for Mafia. The citizen I have in the save because its a helpful counter role for Godfather. So just becuase invest finds a citizen, doesn't automatically make him the Godfather which was the case in many situations. Plus citizens can win 1v1's with mafia and protect themselves for one night. Sometimes, you need a quiter/less active townie. I hate dislike saves where every freak townie can either jail/shoot/alert/kill/detect/...there can be a role where you can kinda relax and focus on staying alive.

So when it comes to the randoms, it allows for a unique town every game. You will have your "core" town as well as some other roles like Vigilante's and Bus Drivers. So with the randoms you are never going to get the same town twice. This will also allow mafia a little wiggle room when trying to lie thier way from suspicion/lynching. When roles aren't defined, you get little more strategy and honestly a bit more fun. Evil roles get some room to lie. It creates a bit of excitement in my opinion. This save can have 3 or 4 random town thanks to the random any. The random any can only be town or neutral as mafia is excluded. And also, every town role is playable. Nothing is neglected or left out.

**NUETRAL**
There are 2 nuetral roles with a possible 3rd thanks to random any. I have always been a firm believer that Nuetral Roles should NEVER BE DEFINED. Why you ask? Becuase it gives them a shot at winning. It is kind of tough to win as a Jester or an Executioner if the damn role list shows a jester and executioner. Less people will believe you when you shout mafia claiming to be a sheriff and less people will be likely to lynch suspicious people in fear of Jester. These are the kind of roles that are awesome when NO ONE is expecting it by default. The same can apply for the Witch. If the witch is on the role list...then town will be ready for a witch hunt, and the witch role can be tough enough to win with by itself. Again, the witch should be able to operate without early suspicion. I also like it when the target does not know they are being controlled. If the target does know, a.) It reveals a witch (no fun for witch) b.) The target knows that his ability is tarnished. So if you witch a Sheriff and sheriff finds a mafia, then the sheriff will immediately dismiss his read...thus taking the fun out of being a witch. The witch was meant for disruption and chaos.

To be fair, the Serial Killer and Arson are probably the 2 nuetral roles that can be defined. The SK will be obvious after n1 kill. Arsonist is more or less of a toss up.

**IN SUMMARY**
*All roles are playable
*Nuetral Roles are not obvious right away
*Mafia Roles are not obvious right away
*Town is plentiful and balanced
*Evil has wiggle room

tl;dr
standard setup

edit: you also horrible misspelled neutral

[EliteMarine]

tl;dr
standard setup

edit: you also HORRIBLY misspelled neutral

Fixed.

Also I am unfamiliar with tl;dr setup. This setup was mine and mine alone.

[Brendan]

Fixed.

Also I am unfamiliar with tl;dr setup. This setup was mine and mine alone.

das hilarious

[creedkingsx]

mispelled or mispelt

FIXED.
depending on your use of new age english.

[EliteMarine]

das hilarious

I bet it was.

If you don't want to read it then don't. He was looking for suggestions, I offered.

Your opinion was never required.

[FrostByte]

I bet it was.

If you don't want to read it then don't. He was looking for suggestions, I offered.

Your opinion was never required.

UMAD?

[Carrein]

Children children... Save it for in-game please

[Blazer]

welcome to the human race.

[EliteMarine]

UMAD?

LoL! Not in the least bit.

Think this is the first time I have spoken with trolls. Nah...

[FrostByte]

LoL! Not in the least bit.

Think this is the first time I have spoken with trolls. Nah...

UMAD.

[EliteMarine]

Yeah. I have officially moved on.

[Ash]

UMAD.

you dont do it as good as trollzor.

[Jim]

they repick you because there is 12 mafias, learn to read.

[Brendan]

newfag out of nowhere.

[creedkingsx]

newfag out of nowhere.

Brendan
Member
Join Date
May 2012

..

[Blazer]

..

dirty

[creedkingsx]

dirty

I know you are ;D

[NettleS]

I hear ya , i got ripped constantly because my setup had both a confirmed mason leader and a cult in.
Luckily i finally got my mason leader win on the weekend so i don't have to put up with all the lame save comments.Gets really tedious
I don't mind classic or random setup , not a big fan of clue though.If pubs would quit leaving when the setup is a little different that would make the game a whole lot more interesting.

[LeaD]

I really like your setup even though it doesn't have citizens (which I like). Could you elaborate more on your exact options?

People complain about not having a GF and if you exclude killing roles, one of them will automatically turn into a mafioso...

pretty much normal
start day no lynch, death desc, 0,5min disc, 1,2 min day, 0,6 night, trial pauses day, majority vote
vet 3 alerts - kills immune
jailor - 2 kills
det lookout detect detection immune stuff too
framer - detectable
consig - does not detect exact role
witch - victim does NOT know he is controlled, can self target
bd - can self target
exec - immune at night, turns into jester, target is NOT always town, does not have to stay alive til the end
amne - can not become mafia (i leave this option up to you), new role gets revealed to town
SK - Not immune to detection, immune at night, automatically kills roleblockers
Arso - Not immune to detection, target does not know he is doused, kill ignores invul and doc heal, immune at night

well this should pretty much cover all of it, the rest is entire left up to your tastes

i also forgot to elaborate on certain choices:
since all mafia roles are capable of dying usually, they are hard pressed to find the SK asap and deal with the situation accordingly.
I already mentioned why i have the mafia all randomised, and why random maf excludes killing roles, simply because someone will get turned into a mafioso, and people (especially myself) hate having GF + mafioso or 2 mafioso on the team
also i justified the existence of the Jester

[CortoMontez]

Here's my usual setup, it is not quite the standard setup, but it has elements of it.

Godfather
Basic Mafia
Adv. Mafia
Jailor
Veteran
Mayor
Investigator
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Basic Town
Adv. Town
Random Neutral
Basic Neutral
Adv. Neutral

Here are the specifics of the important roles:

Mafia:
GF: All options checked
Consig: Exact role detect, replaces GF
Other mafia: Becomes mafioso without KP
Framer: Immune to detect
BM: Victim can't speak on trial
Disguiser: Cleans role
Janitor: 3x Cleans available

Neutral:
SK: Invul. at night, kills roleblockers
Arson: Invul at night, victims not notified, ignores invul
Executioner: Invul at night, target is town, becomes jester upon target death
Witch: Target not notified, can cause self-target
Cult: One night between conversions
Amnesiac: Cannot become town, role not revealed to town
Survivor: 3x Vests
Random neutral: Must be a killing role
Basic Neutral: Must be a non-killing role
Adv. Neutral: Must be a non-killing role

Town:
Jailor: 2x executions
Veteran: 3x alerts, ignores invulnerability, excluded from randoms
Mayor: Keeps votes in cult, cannot be healed, 4x votes
Doctor: Notified if target attacked, not if cult conversion prevented
Vigilante: 2x Shots
Sheriff: Detects mafia, arson, SK, not cult
Spy: Enabled, can read PMs, can see mafia targets but not mafia kill target
Detective: Ignores detection immunity
Lookout: Ignores detection immunity
Coroner: Sees all night targets
Bodyguard: Ignores invul.
Busdrive: Can self-target
Mason-Leader: Replaced by masons
Random Town: Citizens enabled
Basic town: Citizens disabled

Using this setup I have found that due to the weighting of citizen in random town, there is at least one citizen in most games played. Also, as stated by many players, neutrals are best kept random, and the settings have been optimised to as to hide the existence of the neutral roles.
Also, the existence of a guaranteed jailor and veteran forces people to be more conservative with the night actions and lynches.
The lack of a guaranteed doctor and sheriff also means that more mind-work must be performed by the town, rather than the game boiling down to a guaranteed sheriff being healed.
I have considered making the two mafia into random mafia, but the weighting towards mafioso on random mafia is making me stay away from that option atm. Also considering changing around the neutral roles so that the random neutral is NON-killing, and the other neutrals can be either killing or non-killing, but this seems to work fine for now.

Have I missed any important roles from my listing?

[LeaD]

^i fail to see the supporting dynamic of your setup besides:
randomising neutral roles is better if u use random any and random neutral : make one non killing and the other killing only, add 2 of the non killing neutrals only. i think it's better if the neutrals get a sporting chance whether or not one of them dies, confirming that the other can only be a limited amount of neutral roles.

[Guardian]

@Corto
I *think* you need to adjust the fact that you have at least 4 killing roles in your setup.
Unless you're aiming for a very s-h-o-r-t game...

[CortoMontez]

@Corto
I *think* you need to adjust the fact that you have at least 4 killing roles in your setup.
Unless you're aiming for a very s-h-o-r-t game...

I'm new to this forum, so what is considered a 'short' game? Normally my games last about 5-7 days.

[EliteMarine]

Originally Posted by Brendan
newfag out of nowhere.

Brendan
Member
Join Date
May 2012


..

Epic...

[EliteMarine]

^i fail to see the supporting dynamic of your setup besides:
randomising neutral roles is better if u use random any and random neutral : make one non killing and the other killing only, add 2 of the non killing neutrals only. i think it's better if the neutrals get a sporting chance whether or not one of them dies, confirming that the other can only be a limited amount of neutral roles.

^
Words of Wisdom!

[Blazer]

4 killing roles....

@creed you bet i am ;)

[Joedoe1025]

wow, i'm looking through all these and honestly i like alot of these builds you guys are tossing round. I'm new to this forum, but i've played a ton of mafia publicly (which admittedly isnt so bad after a game STARTS with a decent amount of peeps, some of the "wonky" saves i've seen turn out to be insane and fun lol)

Overall heres my general opinion of the whole "save" controversy. While i find saves enjoyable, sometimes you just gotta bust down to the basics to get a great mafia experience. if people want to do something "special" they can bring it up, but if your just there to enjoy a nice game, with plenty of skill. then go classic.

[LeaD]

^what you see dumb people in pubs say is that "SHERIFF INVESTIGATOR DOC JAILOR DEFAULT ONLY" whereas those setups are severely overpowered for town (you get 15points for a win tops, lol)
Setup strength at the end (dumb fucktards in pubs don't even read that shit yo) clearly shows that aswell... 22,something town strength vs 12,something maf strength vs 3,5-5,0 SK/arso strength, srsly...