Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

**Kovath** · April 26th, 2012, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

playmaf is competing whether they want to or not, since they are trying to attract users to their site while attempting to be a mafiascum clone, effectively trying to pull new users to their site instead of mafiascum. SC2mafia is mostly separate, because we get our userbase from another source, but since the entire playmaf userbase is so far composed of SC2mafia players, I'd say that they're quite desperately trying to attract SC2mafia users to their site, once again competing with a much larger and more established site.

They aren't allowed to advertise because nobody is allowed to advertise.

It's all about the monieeeeeeeeeeeeeeees Deathfire

If two things are doing the same thing, no matter how you look at it it's competition

Complaints? Bring down capitalism then, I dare you

**creedkingsx** · April 26th, 2012, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kovath

It's all about the monieeeeeeeeeeeeeeees Deathfire

If two things are doing the same thing, no matter how you look at it it's competition

Complaints? Bring down capitalism then, I dare you

Fantastic Foursome, huh?
hmm.
I'm jelly.

**Kovath** · April 26th, 2012, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by creedkingsx

Fantastic Foursome, huh?
hmm.
I'm jelly.

U jelly? Or pudding?

Better make up your mind bro.

I always thought Luna was the best of da bunch. Sorry Blazer bro, we elected a Fool as pope... huehuehuehue

**creedkingsx** · April 26th, 2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kovath

U jelly? Or pudding?

Better make up your mind bro.

I always thought Luna was the best of da bunch. Sorry Blazer bro, we elected a Fool as pope... huehuehuehue

Well played sir, well played.

**Deathfire123** · April 26th, 2012, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

playmaf is competing whether they want to or not, since they are trying to attract users to their site while attempting to be a mafiascum clone, effectively trying to pull new users to their site instead of mafiascum. SC2mafia is mostly separate, because we get our userbase from another source, but since the entire playmaf userbase is so far composed of SC2mafia players, I'd say that they're quite desperately trying to attract SC2mafia users to their site, once again competing with a much larger and more established site.

They aren't allowed to advertise because nobody is allowed to advertise.

As I have stated before and stated again, people can frequent more than one forum at a time. Bringing users in from other forums isn't stealing them if they are still active on both sites. It's not a competition Oops, stop looking at it like that

**Kovath** · April 26th, 2012, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Deathfire123

As I have stated before and stated again, people can frequent more than one forum at a time. Bringing users in from other forums isn't stealing them if they are still active on both sites. It's not a competition Oops, stop looking at it like that

I'm pretty sure advertising money is based on how many times you visit the site

Split between two sites = less time on each individual site

Both sites want more time = more money= competition

It's capitalism bro

**Dust** · April 26th, 2012, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kovath

I'm pretty sure advertising money is based on how many times you visit the site

Split between two sites = less time on each individual site

Both sites want more time = more money= competition

It's capitalism bro

Have you ever heard of tabs? Or it's more likely you use IE so you can't use tabs they slow it down so much.

I have at least on tab on each forum.

**Clawtrocity** · April 26th, 2012, 11:17 PM

Anyway, I added my part of the story. Nothing else to say other than I'm sorry for everything that happened because of me as I've said before. It shouldn't have happened, but that doesn't mean that I'm not sorry for it. Hopefully you all have fun in your next FM or when this one is restarted. No hard feelings toward Cap or Jack. I've said it before and I'll say it for the rest of my life. 99% of problems in the world are because of communication breakdown. We didn't communicate clearly and that fault rests on both of our shoulders.

"Bright lights, they tend to burn out fast, so I shine bright, but I'm scared that it won't last. Cause I ain't gonna be around forever, so fuck it all."

**FalseTruth** · April 26th, 2012, 11:34 PM

...Except we aren't making any money because we have no ads. We just want a place to play forum mafia so we started a new site. Everyone is welcome to join and we aren't profiting in any way from it.

**Zane** · April 27th, 2012, 12:08 AM

so im not allowed to advertise peabnut bubber?

**Duzero** · April 27th, 2012, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Zane

so im not allowed to advertise peabnut bubber?

Poor keyboard, full of peanut butter so keys are all sticky

**CmG** · April 27th, 2012, 04:48 AM

Thats not peabnut butter on your Keyboard ...

**MagmaRam** · April 27th, 2012, 05:41 AM

I can't believe it's not butter.

**Kovath** · April 27th, 2012, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by CmG

Thats not peabnut butter on your Keyboard ...

+1

**Duzero** · April 27th, 2012, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by CmG

Thats not peabnut butter on your Keyboard ...

Trololol

**TheJackofSpades** · April 27th, 2012, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Clawtrocity

I never said that I intended to gamethrow. Find me that quote because I'm positive I never said that.

[4:10:09 PM] pokedwhenever: claw made a call with all of us
[4:10:15 PM] pokedwhenever: then hes like
[4:10:17 PM] pokedwhenever: guys im gonna gamethrow

**Duzero** · April 27th, 2012, 06:42 AM

Looks legit, I can tell by the pixels.

**Zane** · April 27th, 2012, 06:49 AM

[4:10:09 PM] Zane: Yo I'm sexy.
[4:10:15 PM] TheJackofSpades: Yes I love you.
[4:10:17 PM] Zane: :3
[4:10:33 PM] TheJackofSpades: You are beautiful.
[4:13:37 PM] Zane: Oh thank you.
[31:1:26 PM] TheJackofSpades: You are welcome.

**Duzero** · April 27th, 2012, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Zane

[4:10:09 PM] Zane: Yo I'm sexy.
[4:10:15 PM] TheJackofSpades: Yes I love you.
[4:10:17 PM] Zane: :3
[4:10:33 PM] TheJackofSpades: You are beautiful.
[4:13:37 PM] Zane: Oh thank you.
[31:1:26 PM] TheJackofSpades: You are welcome.

Can't find anything wrong with that one either, it's obviously from one of those FM's with 48 hour days...

**TheJackofSpades** · April 27th, 2012, 07:17 AM

In Jack's eyes False had respect. Jack was one of the people who didn't like Akira either so his comments about this coup that False and Muso supposedly had been planning were stupid. He disliked the way the forum was going as well and while he didn't voice his opinion about it he definitely felt the same. False and Muso were classy enough to make a new forum instead of dealing with this bullshit. However, it seems very similar to the situation between me and the FM game master. They made comments, realized nothing was going to happen, and dropped the subject. I did roughly the same thing in the day chat, however in both situations people try and say that we were doing things that were had no basis. They accused us of causing drama and trying to do everything with malicious intent. None of that was true. They disliked the way the Akira situation was being handled and I disliked the way that the modkills weren't being handled. I was wrongfully kicked out of the game as was False and I defended the integrity of the game by standing up for it. I basically said fuck you Cap and Jack for not letting me use my last night to WIFOM protect my allies.

A) I voiced my opinion quite loudly, thank you very much. But when the community turned against me on the matter, I resigned. Learn to be... I don't know, around at all?
B) So you did dislike Lysergic and the others not being modkilled. So it wasn't a strategy then? Wait, but I thought you said that was the entire motivation for being upset about being modkilled right? That it was a strategy? Does that mean that hating Akira is a strategy too? Wait... that doesn't make sense... Or does it?

You and Cap knew exactly why I did what I did and I used the metagame rules as an exit strategy after Lysergic was stupid enough to break the rules. Cap's message to me proves this.

[4/25/2012 4:40:54 PM] Capitalier: I wonder if you can convince people that it had nothing to do with the game.
[4/25/2012 4:40:54 PM] Capitalier: ;)
[4/25/2012 4:40:57 PM] Capitalier: Didn't work on me.

I don't know what this proves, it's a vague comment about something I had no knowledge of.
In fact, this is pretty much of the extent of the conversation we had over you, and you'll note that Cap does not seem wise to you either.

Spoiler : Spoiler: :

I didn't say you actually did that, I said I felt like you did with the random pressure from multiple people. One of the people being Cap's swedish love lady.

Actually you did.

I thought for sure Cap or Jack let them know who I was

"who I was" has two contexts, identity and role. But since this was non-anon and they already knew who you were as Claw, it could only mean one thing.

Exactly that. I was dead already. You can't enforce WIFOM on your own dime. If this is a rule in SC2Mafia then it needs to be looked at carefully. I've played SC2Mafia before I outed mafia teammates who have gone on to win the game. Never before has someone done this in FM so I figured with death looming I had no choice other than to try it out. Kicking me without talking to me about it was wrong and stupid of both of you.

It has never been done before because it would destroy any mafia team that it was committed upon. It was two days into the game and days are 48 hours. Kicking you out when you were already dead actually does nothing but stops you from ruining your own team. So as far as I'm concerned talking to you wasn't an issue. I think it's pretty clear by now I would not have accepted it as "WIFOM" and would have modkilled you regardless.

Even if it is punishable in SC2mafia (Which is shouldn't be unless the person is obviously being malicious or not in a situation like mine I.E. giving a list of the mafia teammates in a last will should not be bannable or even punishiable) the rules of SC2Mafia have never been applied to Forum Mafia so strictly. I did the only thing I could do to increase my chance at making a power play before I died.

Yours was pretty malicious as you might recall. It even included a bit about you thinking my game was a waste of time. Furthermore, it wasn't left in a last will. It was stated at your execution, so it'd be more apt to say that you outed your mafia during the Last Words segment of the execution sequence.

I was enjoying it. I had plans for many things that were ruined by the jailor. I had to seem upset in my reveal of them to make them think it was real. The more real it seemed the less real it became. They'd be able to fake town roles and survive for a long time. If it didn't work, it didn't really matter. It wasn't your call to say that it wouldn't work. We'll never know now if it did or didn't work because of you kicking me. At least if it didn't work I would have lost, the game would have continued, and you'd be able to tell me how stupid I was for thinking such a crazy strategy would work. Now you're on the defensive after wrongfully kicking from the game.

If it didn't work, it didn't really matter? It would have caused your instantaneous loss if it didn't work. Are you sure you cared about the game? Who makes a strategy like that when your teammates were completely safe and only you were under the barrel? Not anyone thinking about his team, that's for sure.

I read exactly what you said and I explained that it had nothing to do with the site and everything to do with us playing games together. You tried to make it seem like False recruited us and we all the sudden became friends because we all hated Rev and wanted to make Playmaf. It had nothing to do with that in anyway shape or form. That came after the fact that we had been playing SC2, Pogo, iSketch, and making some videos for over a month.

I never said False recruited you, first of all. My meaning was that you pretty much had nothing to do with each other when I was around, a month and a half or so previous. I never thought to myself "Wow, Claw and Muso are really close.", because you only were around to make idiotic comments about serious shit like Kevinpowers.

If you read the thread you'd understand that the charade wasn't about Cap and Jack

It had everything to do with Cap and Jack and nothing to do with Muso or False.

If it didn't have anything to do with Cap and I, and nothing to do with Muso and False, then it must have been your own fault, right?

You have horrible analogy skills Akira because no one in their right might would allow a serial killer to babysit someone. Nor is this situation anything even remotely close to that. This is about me being banned from the forums and trying to make it seem worse with shitty analogies is making you look more and more like an asshat. If you care so little about FM and it's just a "playground" for people then how is it a "serious offense" when I've listed every reason for every action I made. Everyone is ignoring my side and acting like my actions were a vicious attack on Jack and Cap. I've given my reasons why they are not, so where is the outrage of the FM game masters modkilling me for no reason. Where is the outrage for Jack and Cap publicly continuing drama on the Day thread to make me look more like a bad guy when in private they told me they knew what I was doing. I'm not the victim, the players of FM are the victims, but they aren't the victims of just my reveal of 3 roles. They are the victims of mechanical flaws and random rule changes without public knowledge. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but they knew what they were doing. They knew what I was doing. They knew everything that was going on and still decided to change the rules in private multiple times.

I had absolutely no knowledge of any strategy you were employing in any facet and I am certain judging by Cap's reactions to me in skype between us that he had no idea either. We did not change anything that wasn't specifically stated in day(i.e. Phantom immune to culting). The only thing you have to argue is whether or not you should have been jailed, and it was simply an issue of never re-editing the card after I changed the rolecard formatting. I am sorry if you thought we were out to get you, but we weren't.

**TheJackofSpades** · April 27th, 2012, 07:27 AM

Furthermore, saying that we're both to blame due to a communication breakdown is idiotic.
Take this scenario for example:
A man approaches a young lady, asking for sexual favors.
The lady, not hearing him clearly, asks for clarification.
The man, hearing an affirmative, rapes her.
When asked why the man didn't stop when she was crying for him to do so, he responds with "I thought we were roleplaying."

**CmG** · April 27th, 2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

Furthermore, saying that we're both to blame due to a communication breakdown is idiotic.
Take this scenario for example:
A man approaches a young lady, asking for sexual favors.
The lady, not hearing him clearly, asks for clarification.
The man, hearing an affirmative, rapes her.
When asked why the man didn't stop when she was crying for him to do so, he responds with "I thought we were roleplaying."

HEy!? Thats a fucking good strategy! Have to try this at the Weekend!

**McJesus** · April 27th, 2012, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by CmG

HEy!? Thats a fucking good strategy! Have to try this at the Weekend!

Personally I prefer the "does this smell like chloroform" approach

**Nick** · April 27th, 2012, 07:57 AM

Boys and girls, stay away from these lot in real life.

**CmG** · April 27th, 2012, 07:59 AM

Lol but you don´t need any chemicals for that! So you don´t even need money for this. Jacks idea is better

**Blazer** · April 27th, 2012, 09:37 AM

Tldr
Don't let the drama kill the community. Drama kills many things. It's good to discuss things and put your input on it, but don't get carried away please. It will kill the community, the fun, the site, etc...

Ps. Kovath, who is the bigger fool, the fool who became pope? Or the fools who put him there? XD

**Clawtrocity** · April 27th, 2012, 11:11 AM

A) I voiced my opinion quite loudly, thank you very much. But when the community turned against me on the matter, I resigned. Learn to be... I don't know, around at all?
B) So you did dislike Lysergic and the others not being modkilled. So it wasn't a strategy then? Wait, but I thought you said that was the entire motivation for being upset about being modkilled right? That it was a strategy? Does that mean that hating Akira is a strategy too? Wait... that doesn't make sense... Or does it?

You must not be reading correctly. I said I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. Who do you think was modkilled in the game? It would be False and I. Neither of us deserved to be modkilled therefore I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. So you're propagandizing up the wrong tree.

I don't know what this proves, it's a vague comment about something I had no knowledge of.
In fact, this is pretty much of the extent of the conversation we had over you, and you'll note that Cap does not seem wise to you either.

Spoiler : Spoiler: :

I made no effort to discredit anything you said. You just stated that the comment Cap left me was vague, but it points out exactly what he knew. He knew the "gambit" had to do with in game information and he knew I was breaking the meta rule. If he had been diligent enough he could have modkilled me right there and I'd have absolutely nothing to defend against it. I was breaking the meta game rule hard, but instead you decided to modkill me because of WIFOM in a private jail cell. What did you think was going to happen in that night chat? I was just gonna chat the jailor up? I have nothing to do with 24 hours and I'm not about to just sit there and congradulate the guy. I'm going to confuse him, force him to role claim, and hope my Mafia can stand up to the test. If that doesn't work out then we would lose. It doesn't matter because it's just a game. It's one of 12 FMs that we've played so far and we would just start up another game. The Jailor could have been someone who wasn't very trustworthy to begin with and everything COULD have worked in my favor.

Actually you did.

"who I was" has two contexts, identity and role. But since this was non-anon and they already knew who you were as Claw, it could only mean one thing.

Saying "I thought" and "I know" are two completely different things. I merely felt as if with the random pressure that you had told them. I never accused you of telling anyone. It's the same as me saying "It feels like someone is watching me" I don't actually think someone is watching me, it just feels that way. How am I the one twisting words again?

It has never been done before because it would destroy any mafia team that it was committed upon. It was two days into the game and days are 48 hours. Kicking you out when you were already dead actually does nothing but stops you from ruining your own team. So as far as I'm concerned talking to you wasn't an issue. I think it's pretty clear by now I would not have accepted it as "WIFOM" and would have modkilled you regardless.

You can't prove that. I could play SC2Mafia right now and try it out and I think that at the very least 50% of the time the town would get confused, lynch other people, or clean the people in the last will. If you ban someone from saying the actual mafia names you ban them lynching their own Mafia as well. What happened to Yayap when he played Shawna? Where was the modkill and outrage on that? He pushed a lynch on his own guy for personal gain(to gain the town's trust). There was no outrage because it worked. He tricked the town for a few days before the strategy collapsed on him.

Stop making this out to be a personal vendetta from me to you. This was merely a strategy that you guys didn't like so you killed me for it. WIFOM has never been penalized before and I gave a perfect example of it working in Forum Mafia in the past. This wasn't me telling everyone that Waaaagh was Cult Leader, Deathfire was witch, or Muso was doctor. I would have never known those roles so obviously if they saw me dead as mafia and knew all these random roles they would think I was cheating. I gave away my own mafia members so they would have had to think twice. At the end of an SC2 Match when someone says "Awww fuck it Black is my mafia teammate" No one believes him, not even for a second. Black might or might not be mafia, but that's the risk that the town has to make. It's risky, but it's a strategy. I never game threw and you had no right to modkill me.

Yours was pretty malicious as you might recall. It even included a bit about you thinking my game was a waste of time. Furthermore, it wasn't left in a last will. It was stated at your execution, so it'd be more apt to say that you outed your mafia during the Last Words segment of the execution sequence.

I stated the reason for this in my SC2 ending example. The more blatant it is the more people think about it. This isn't coming from my mouth either it'd be coming from a random person who claimed jailor. "Aw fuck it we already lost Black is Mafia" The town has no idea if they should believe the jailor or not. It could be Ganon playing as jailor completely lying. Never did I say it with malicious intent to ruin the game.

If it didn't work, it didn't really matter? It would have caused your instantaneous loss if it didn't work. Are you sure you cared about the game? Who makes a strategy like that when your teammates were completely safe and only you were under the barrel? Not anyone thinking about his team, that's for sure.

You don't have the right to say what I was thinking about. Everyone plays for themselves, for all I know some of my team could have been culted already and the rest were close to follow. You gave me an action to remove people from my chat. Don't tell me that I have to play for this team that I'm not even sure is going to be my team for much longer. I thought if anything this strategy would keep them alive for longer. They'd be able to kill the jailor. If they all acted oblivious the jailor claim would make no sense and he would now be out in the open. The sheriff was already dead so the only way to proof them to be evil would be to lynch them and find out. It would have caused chaos. In reality this game isn't only about winning either. It's about having fun.

Everyone told me that when I was Fyodor I wouldn't be allowed to purposefully try and let no one win because it would be against the rules. I say that's bullshit because any rule that prevents me from ending the game in whatever way I want is silly and uncalled for. There are no trophies and only photoshopped awards travel with us from game to game. It'd be the amazing strategy of tricking a jailor, claiming invest, then dying in a heap of bodies where no one wins that would be the memorable part of the game. Everyone would remember the game where no one won. This would have been the game where the mafia were sitting right in front of the town's eyes and they weren't smart enough to lynch them. Instead it's the one where the two hosts decided to modkill two players for stupid reasons then made them seem like the bad guys because of out of game stuff that bothered them. You keep refering to our site being the catalyst to this issue and it was far from it.

I never said False recruited you, first of all. My meaning was that you pretty much had nothing to do with each other when I was around, a month and a half or so previous. I never thought to myself "Wow, Claw and Muso are really close.", because you only were around to make idiotic comments about serious shit like Kevinpowers.

Me and Muso never played together, but I've respected him and liked him since FM4. The only reason we become "really close" was because we played the shit out of Alien swarm for a few nights on skype and everyone had a good time. He's also going to be getting D3 with a few of us. This all of course happened weeks before the site was released. You say my comments are idiotic here, but you say your words spoke to me in private...I still don't see where I'm the one twisting words.

If it didn't have anything to do with Cap and I, and nothing to do with Muso and False, then it must have been your own fault, right?

The charade I'm referring to was the in game gambit. If that's not what he was talking about I apologize. The second sentence is what I meant about all this. You and Cap were to blame. False and Muso said nothing to me. I didn't even know False knew my role until about the middle of day two I think. If you thought False might tell me to do something why would you let him know all the roles to begin with. Akira went as far as to say he knew False was going to end the game by ruining it. He had all the roles in the game almost and didn't say a word.

After I was modkilled he let me know a few roles for some laughs, and I didn't reveal those in my signature. I felt that if I wasn't going to be granted a last will, or the jailor chat I could still try the strategy. I told them on skype that I was putting my jailor message in the sig and when Waaaagh asked "Wait what are you going to be in your sig" False linked it in chat and apparently philie(who was supposedly asleep) also saw it. This was mid way through the night and Waaaagh had already told me that he hated Sumi for thinking I was the witch or something and that it was all happening in night chat. You can check the time stamps on all that unless you deleted the evidence already. Waaaagh had no idea until everyone else did and when he did know he had no idea that they were real. I had said in chat that I'm gonna give the jailor 3 names as a final strategy.

I had absolutely no knowledge of any strategy you were employing in any facet and I am certain judging by Cap's reactions to me in skype between us that he had no idea either. We did not change anything that wasn't specifically stated in day(i.e. Phantom immune to culting). The only thing you have to argue is whether or not you should have been jailed, and it was simply an issue of never re-editing the card after I changed the rolecard formatting. I am sorry if you thought we were out to get you, but we weren't.

You changed the jailor actions which directly affected me. You won't admit it obviously because once you saw the jailor had been jestered you knew you'd be able to kill me off without having to resort to a modkill. Sadly in the end you still did have to use a modkill because you didn't like my strategy. If you had let it run it's course then you could have watched me lose and be ridiculed by everyone for such a stupid strategy if that's what you thought it was, but instead you ended the game. That caused so much unnecessary drama when it could have been me, ganon, auckmid, and magna laughing at how stupid I was. Sometimes people do stupid things, but that doesn't give people in authority the right to arrest them. If that were the case we wouldn't have a show like Jackass. I dove into a pit of snakes expecting to walk out unscathed and instead you decided to shoot me rather than letting me get bit by all the snakes. That's your fault and you caused this drama. Not me.

Furthermore, saying that we're both to blame due to a communication breakdown is idiotic.
Take this scenario for example:
A man approaches a young lady, asking for sexual favors.
The lady, not hearing him clearly, asks for clarification.
The man, hearing an affirmative, rapes her.
When asked why the man didn't stop when she was crying for him to do so, he responds with "I thought we were roleplaying."

Communication breakdown is where two groups of people or individuals are trying to communicate and one or both parties misunderstand the message being relayed to the other. Your example fits this description exactly. Rape is usually a communication breakdown because it's the male or female's understanding that the person they are about to rape is "asking for it" either with their attitude, personality, or attire. This is exactly what happened here. You didn't want to talk to me for 5 minutes so you modkilled me and sent me on my way. That's like if a kid was writing on the wall in the house and some father comes up and punches him in the face. Why would you just punch me in the face instead of, I don't know, talking to me for 3 fucking seconds or deleting the message and saying "Hey dude, that's not cool." I'd be much more inclined to believe you weren't out for drama if you had done something like that. We would have been able to talk about it and maybe find a middle ground. Maybe I'd give up 2 fake names and 1 real name instead to confuse them. The strategy was there and if you had talked to me because throwing a tantrum it would have ended a lot better.

I really hope people are reading these posts between us because this situation shouldn't be another scar on the face of SC2Mafia. I'm trying to remain calm and just talking this out so for the few people that sort of egging this on(*cough* Nick eating popcorn *cough*) maybe don't chime in for now to allow us to figure this out. I'm trying to let Jack and Cap see this from my side so they fully understand where I'm coming from and for the rest of the forum to know that I'm not as big of a jackass as I seem. It's stupid that Muso has to go around to everyone saying sorry on my behalf because everyone saw a situation and just assumed I was the devil. I'm apologizing right here, and right now. If you don't want to believe me then that's your prerogative, but I'm be honest and I know Jack is being honest so we're just trying to put the nail in this coffin.

**McJesus** · April 27th, 2012, 11:13 AM

tl;dr claw u suck

**Zane** · April 27th, 2012, 11:23 AM

umad mcpwnage
im the best

**TheJackofSpades** · April 27th, 2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Clawtrocity

You must not be reading correctly. I said I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. Who do you think was modkilled in the game? It would be False and I. Neither of us deserved to be modkilled therefore I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. So you're propagandizing up the wrong tree.

I QUOTE. AGAIN.

They disliked the way the Akira situation was being handled and I disliked the way that the modkills weren't being handled.

So how about before you fucking try and twist this fucking discussion to fit your bullshit gamethrowing you actually keep track of what YOU ARE SAYING.

I made no effort to discredit anything you said.

Again, yes, you are. You stated this:

You and Cap knew exactly why I did what I did

I am saying right now, I had no knowledge whatsoever of your "true intentions" and saw you as trying to use my rules as a weapon, and then ragequitting when things didn't go your way. You're saying I knew. That is discrediting what I'm saying.

Saying "I thought" and "I know" are two completely different things. I merely felt as if with the random pressure that you had told them. I never accused you of telling anyone. It's the same as me saying "It feels like someone is watching me" I don't actually think someone is watching me, it just feels that way. How am I the one twisting words again?

By acting under the assumption, you are implying that I have. You did what you did in jail chat because you thought we were taking hostile action against you. It's okay, you might as well admit it at this point.

You can't prove that. I could play SC2Mafia right now and try it out and I think that at the very least 50% of the time the town would get confused, lynch other people, or clean the people in the last will. If you ban someone from saying the actual mafia names you ban them lynching their own Mafia as well. What happened to Yayap when he played Shawna? Where was the modkill and outrage on that? He pushed a lynch on his own guy for personal gain(to gain the town's trust). There was no outrage because it worked. He tricked the town for a few days before the strategy collapsed on him.

Comparing what you did to what Yayap did is laughable because the two are not even compatible in comparison. The contexts are different, the tones are different. You did so in a private setting when you had no likely way of surviving(healing was still possible after-all) in a fit of childish rage. In reference to sc2, if the keepers want to provide replays where this has occurred I am sure you'd see the error of your way. The bolded is both straw man and using sweeping generalizations to justify your specific situation when the two are incompatible for comparison.

I stated the reason for this in my SC2 ending example. The more blatant it is the more people think about it. This isn't coming from my mouth either it'd be coming from a random person who claimed jailor. "Aw fuck it we already lost Black is Mafia" The town has no idea if they should believe the jailor or not. It could be Ganon playing as jailor completely lying. Never did I say it with malicious intent to ruin the game.

It's funny because your original post in jail chat was something along the lines of
"I'm gf

Ganondorf, MagmaRam, and Auckmid were my teammates

gg"

and it then changed to:
"Auckmid, Magnaram and Ganon (Sorry guys, but honestly the shit that went down made that game pointless. I'm saving you time)were my teammates in FM12. Good luck modkilling this bitches. P.S. Rev can delete my account."
Do you notice the difference? Here, let me refresh your memory on why it changed:
[4/25/2012 9:48:35 PM] pokedwhenever: anyway claw really fucking hates you and jack lol
[4/25/2012 9:48:46 PM] pokedwhenever: hes raging hardcore

You don't have the right to say what I was thinking about. Everyone plays for themselves, for all I know some of my team could have been culted already and the rest were close to follow. You gave me an action to remove people from my chat. Don't tell me that I have to play for this team that I'm not even sure is going to be my team for much longer. I thought if anything this strategy would keep them alive for longer. They'd be able to kill the jailor. If they all acted oblivious the jailor claim would make no sense and he would now be out in the open. The sheriff was already dead so the only way to proof them to be evil would be to lynch them and find out. It would have caused chaos. In reality this game isn't only about winning either. It's about having fun.

Let me give you some free advice. You should stop trying to engage me on the hypothetical, because it only weakens your argument that you were looking out for your team. Now you're saying that you weren't looking out for your team, but if you're not obligated to look after your team, then isn't what you did gamethrowing because giving out their names doesn't benefit you at all because you're about to die? How does that help you personally exactly? Killing the jailor is not a fair trade for losing your entire mafia. Outing your teammates is not fun for your teammates. It is a selfish action in order to perpetuate either A) Gamethrowing B) Trying to "look cool". So if you weren't looking out for your team when perpetuating this strategy, who were you looking out for? Did you gamethrow in the name of "fun"? I don't get you at all, man. You're so all over the place it feels like you're trying to justify your actions after the fact.

Everyone told me that when I was Fyodor I wouldn't be allowed to purposefully try and let no one win because it would be against the rules. I say that's bullshit because any rule that prevents me from ending the game in whatever way I want is silly and uncalled for. There are no trophies and only photoshopped awards travel with us from game to game. It'd be the amazing strategy of tricking a jailor, claiming invest, then dying in a heap of bodies where no one wins that would be the memorable part of the game. Everyone would remember the game where no one won. This would have been the game where the mafia were sitting right in front of the town's eyes and they weren't smart enough to lynch them. Instead it's the one where the two hosts decided to modkill two players for stupid reasons then made them seem like the bad guys because of out of game stuff that bothered them. You keep refering to our site being the catalyst to this issue and it was far from it.

More proof that you actually don't give a shit about your team and were acting in your own interests.

Me and Muso never played together, but I've respected him and liked him since FM4. The only reason we become "really close" was because we played the shit out of Alien swarm for a few nights on skype and everyone had a good time. He's also going to be getting D3 with a few of us. This all of course happened weeks before the site was released. You say my comments are idiotic here, but you say your words spoke to me in private...I still don't see where I'm the one twisting words

.
If you recall, the words I said to you in private were before this occurred. Any respect I held for you in the 10+ months we've known each other is well gone, I assure you.

The charade I'm referring to was the in game gambit. If that's not what he was talking about I apologize. The second sentence is what I meant about all this. You and Cap were to blame. False and Muso said nothing to me. I didn't even know False knew my role until about the middle of day two I think. If you thought False might tell me to do something why would you let him know all the roles to begin with. Akira went as far as to say he knew False was going to end the game by ruining it. He had all the roles in the game almost and didn't say a word.

It's news to me. Unfortunately I am not in control of Cap's actions if he was responsible, much like he went against my opinion in keeping False as far away from our Observer chat as possible. And no, I am not to blame, you are. I encourage you to stop blaming the victim, and take responsibility for your actions.

After I was modkilled he let me know a few roles for some laughs, and I didn't reveal those in my signature. I felt that if I wasn't going to be granted a last will, or the jailor chat I could still try the strategy. I told them on skype that I was putting my jailor message in the sig and when Waaaagh asked "Wait what are you going to be in your sig" False linked it in chat and apparently philie(who was supposedly asleep) also saw it. This was mid way through the night and Waaaagh had already told me that he hated Sumi for thinking I was the witch or something and that it was all happening in night chat. You can check the time stamps on all that unless you deleted the evidence already. Waaaagh had no idea until everyone else did and when he did know he had no idea that they were real. I had said in chat that I'm gonna give the jailor 3 names as a final strategy.

Midway through the night? You mean like an hour in? I cannot even begin to fathom why you think I would be at all happy about you continuing to perpetuate a message that has already gotten you modkilled and removed from jail chat. Did you think I was kidding? This whole situation is completely retarded and the fact that you're trying to defend yourself and False is justifying himself having no part in it by the fact that "[4/25/2012 9:46:00 PM] pokedwhenever: i didnt know she was in the chat" while you imply that she was there the entire time but gone implies that there are more things that are being hidden from me. Which is why I want you fuckers gone.

You changed the jailor actions which directly affected me. You won't admit it obviously because once you saw the jailor had been jestered you knew you'd be able to kill me off without having to resort to a modkill. Sadly in the end you still did have to use a modkill because you didn't like my strategy. If you had let it run it's course then you could have watched me lose and be ridiculed by everyone for such a stupid strategy if that's what you thought it was, but instead you ended the game. That caused so much unnecessary drama when it could have been me, ganon, auckmid, and magna laughing at how stupid I was. Sometimes people do stupid things, but that doesn't give people in authority the right to arrest them. If that were the case we wouldn't have a show like Jackass. I dove into a pit of snakes expecting to walk out unscathed and instead you decided to shoot me rather than letting me get bit by all the snakes. That's your fault and you caused this drama. Not me.

Yeah, because letting you do something that would have ruined the balance of the game and disservice every member of your team when I could instead prevent it from occurring because I had caught it a minute after it happened is totally smart and in the interest of everyone involved.

And no, I didn't change jailor at all. It was intended from the start that jailor could jail on lynch days but couldn't execute. I edited a lot of the role cards when I originally made the thread, but never saved them in our document. And then I re-copied the document role cards into the role card thread to make it look better and forgot that I had made changes. If you want proof of this, check the sign-up thread.

Communication breakdown is where two groups of people or individuals are trying to communicate and one or both parties misunderstand the message being relayed to the other. Your example fits this description exactly. Rape is usually a communication breakdown because it's the male or female's understanding that the person they are about to rape is "asking for it" either with their attitude, personality, or attire. This is exactly what happened here. You didn't want to talk to me for 5 minutes so you modkilled me and sent me on my way. That's like if a kid was writing on the wall in the house and some father comes up and punches him in the face. Why would you just punch me in the face instead of, I don't know, talking to me for 3 fucking seconds or deleting the message and saying "Hey dude, that's not cool." I'd be much more inclined to believe you weren't out for drama if you had done something like that. We would have been able to talk about it and maybe find a middle ground. Maybe I'd give up 2 fake names and 1 real name instead to confuse them. The strategy was there and if you had talked to me because throwing a tantrum it would have ended a lot better.

No, what should have happened is that you should have taken me modkilling you for what you posted as "Hey, that's fucking modkillable." and realized "Hey maybe I shouldn't have done that". I shouldn't have to hold your fucking hand and inform you why I'm punishing you like you're five years old. Sorry, I thought you were smarter than that. From now on I'll tweet you like you'we a twild.

**Duzero** · April 27th, 2012, 12:28 PM

longest post wins

**Clawtrocity** · April 27th, 2012, 01:11 PM

I'm angry Jack. I'm angry that you can sit there and continually disrespect the people of Forum Mafia. You're ignoring everything I'm saying because I could go through and quote all of your posts again and point out the lies you're saying. I've been nothing calm toward you and you continue to be uncivil and cruel towards me. I'm not the one making threats or using scare tactics, that would be you. You ended the game because you wanted me gone. You wanted everyone's approval so you caused chaos on the forums in an attempt to unjustly get me removed from the forums. We were playing a game, there was no hostility, and there was no chance for communication. Game masters are not to dictate what a player needs. That power belongs to the people who play your game. You are merely a moderator of a debate. You are providing an outlet for others to play and the winner of the debate should be decided by the people. I love this forum and I love playing FM. I've played it every single time and I've always had a good time. When you love something you fight for it. You don't sit around while someone tries to make a mockery of it. You say that I'm the one that's out of the picture, but you're the one who quit playing FMs because you hated the way they were being run. Not me. I've played in all of them even if I didn't think they would turn out to be that good.

You punished the players of FM by ending the game prematurely for no reason. You're trying so hard to get rid of me, when I'm tried my best to apologize for everything that's happened. I've been nothing but kind. You're not putting the game first, you're ruining this community even more with politics and we don't need it. You push that blame on False and Muso for no reason and yet the real reason it all happened was because you were kind of a control freak. The second something went wrong you went apeshit and banned everyone you didn't like. You have no proof that what I did was malicious, but I have proof that what you did was. I don't care if Cap didn't tell you, that's communication breakdown between you and him. He knew in the middle of the day chat of what I was doing and refused to take the opportunity to ban me then. I was breaking the rules set prior to the game. You however, banned me and Muso from the game for something that shouldn't we shouldn't have been banned for.

If I seem too passionate it's because I am. I've had nothing, but respect for Rev the moment I joined this forum and I've loved playing Forum Mafia through thick and thin. If I come on strong it's because I feel strongly. I know this sounds cliche, but it's true. This is honestly how I feel about this whole situation. I'm telling you that my strategy was not intended to end the game. I've already told you that there were easier ways to do that.

This place has been my home for over a year and everyone here has been like family. You can continue to be angry about this, but all you're doing is splitting the forum. Prior to this everyone was going to be in one group. Now it's going to be on one side or the other because you just can't let it go.

**creedkingsx** · April 27th, 2012, 01:13 PM

oo look, another wall of text.

**Clawtrocity** · April 27th, 2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by creedkingsx

oo look, another wall of text.

How can you play Forum mafia effectively if you can't even be bothered to read anything more than a sentence or two?

**creedkingsx** · April 27th, 2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Clawtrocity

How can you play Forum mafia effectively if you can't even be bothered to read anything more than a sentence or two?

The difference is the reason. This isn't FM, is it? :P
Nobody cares about this drama anymore. Most of the people thought it was dumb, but now that FM 12 is being restarted without you, most everyone is happy now.

**Zane** · April 27th, 2012, 02:14 PM

my brain is only able to read 1-2 sentences is it my fault? no its my brains fault

**Nick** · April 27th, 2012, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Zane

my brain is only able to read 1-2 sentences is it my fault? no its my brains fault

Only if banana and not brain talking here.

**TheJackofSpades** · April 27th, 2012, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Clawtrocity

I'm angry Jack. I'm angry that you can sit there and continually disrespect the people of Forum Mafia. You're ignoring everything I'm saying because I could go through and quote all of your posts again and point out the lies you're saying. I've been nothing calm toward you and you continue to be uncivil and cruel towards me. I'm not the one making threats or using scare tactics, that would be you. You ended the game because you wanted me gone. You wanted everyone's approval so you caused chaos on the forums in an attempt to unjustly get me removed from the forums. We were playing a game, there was no hostility, and there was no chance for communication. Game masters are not to dictate what a player needs. That power belongs to the people who play your game. You are merely a moderator of a debate. You are providing an outlet for others to play and the winner of the debate should be decided by the people. I love this forum and I love playing FM. I've played it every single time and I've always had a good time. When you love something you fight for it. You don't sit around while someone tries to make a mockery of it. You say that I'm the one that's out of the picture, but you're the one who quit playing FMs because you hated the way they were being run. Not me. I've played in all of them even if I didn't think they would turn out to be that good.

You punished the players of FM by ending the game prematurely for no reason. You're trying so hard to get rid of me, when I'm tried my best to apologize for everything that's happened. I've been nothing but kind. You're not putting the game first, you're ruining this community even more with politics and we don't need it. You push that blame on False and Muso for no reason and yet the real reason it all happened was because you were kind of a control freak. The second something went wrong you went apeshit and banned everyone you didn't like. You have no proof that what I did was malicious, but I have proof that what you did was. I don't care if Cap didn't tell you, that's communication breakdown between you and him. He knew in the middle of the day chat of what I was doing and refused to take the opportunity to ban me then. I was breaking the rules set prior to the game. You however, banned me and Muso from the game for something that shouldn't we shouldn't have been banned for.

If I seem too passionate it's because I am. I've had nothing, but respect for Rev the moment I joined this forum and I've loved playing Forum Mafia through thick and thin. If I come on strong it's because I feel strongly. I know this sounds cliche, but it's true. This is honestly how I feel about this whole situation. I'm telling you that my strategy was not intended to end the game. I've already told you that there were easier ways to do that.

This place has been my home for over a year and everyone here has been like family. You can continue to be angry about this, but all you're doing is splitting the forum. Prior to this everyone was going to be in one group. Now it's going to be on one side or the other because you just can't let it go.

Let me make myself clear: You are no better than any other gamethrower in sc2 mafia. Twist the situation however way you like, but so long as I remain on these forums I will ensure you never participate in another FM again.

Saying I was pushing to ban everyone I didn't like is pretty laughable, by the way, because until now the three of you were among the short list of people I admired to some degree. You made me your enemy, not the other way around. I expected this kind of shit from False because he's a snake who will take any opportunity to stab his friends in the back. But I didn't expect it from you.

**Clawtrocity** · April 27th, 2012, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades

Let me make myself clear: You are no better than any other gamethrower in sc2 mafia. Twist the situation however way you like, but so long as I remain on these forums I will ensure you never participate in another FM again.

Saying I was pushing to ban everyone I didn't like is pretty laughable, by the way, because until now the three of you were among the short list of people I admired to some degree. You made me your enemy, not the other way around. I expected this kind of shit from False because he's a snake who will take any opportunity to stab his friends in the back. But I didn't expect it from you.

I didn't stab anyone in the back. I didn't do anything wrong. I played the game and you pushed your politics into the mess. The forums are so far gone that no one is even reading this or caring about it. It's just you and me talking. The players that matter either don't care enough to read this, don't care for either side, or are gone. This isn't between you stopping me from playing FM or you standing in my way. This is you and me arguing over bullshit. You poked me, I poked you back. We're both narcissistic douchebags and this literally will go no where. Have fun re-hosting FM12. I hope you'll eventually drop this and while you don't really have to respect me, at least treat me like a normal person.

**Dont Shoot Me** · April 27th, 2012, 07:19 PM

I love it. Claw's actually trying to defend his actions? He is either delusional or trolling, and either way anything he posts is a waste of time to read. Can someone just ban him already?

I really hope he doesn't actually believe in the shit he is spewing.

**Goonswarm** · April 27th, 2012, 07:22 PM

Sup fuckers i'm back, and will be around much more in this community. Look forward to some D3 action and new roles for Mafia.

Also shame on cheater lulz.

**Ash** · April 27th, 2012, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Goonswarm

Sup fuckers i'm back, and will be around much more in this community. Look forward to some D3 action and new roles for Mafia.

Also shame on cheater lulz.

lol you and claw were like buddies or some shit. why dont you defend him? thats phunny

**Zane** · April 28th, 2012, 03:17 AM

because internet friends are the best

**creedkingsx** · May 2nd, 2012, 10:59 PM

In honor of 5/3/12, where 5•3-3=12, I am reviving this thread to be ignored again.

**Blazer** · May 3rd, 2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by creedkingsx

In honor of 5/3/12, where 5•3-3=12, I am reviving this thread to be ignored again.

_dayshoots creed_

**Nick** · May 3rd, 2012, 09:14 AM

Thread locked. Issue solved.

**Forum Mafia GM** · May 3rd, 2012, 11:16 AM

closed, gg.

Thread: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm

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