Excluding citizen/making godfather immune to detection

[Gerik]

Popular mafia settings seem to generally exclude citizen as a possible role and have the godfather immune to detection. I think this is stupid and should be changed. Here's why:

If godfather is immune to detection, he appears to be a citizen. This means if a godfather is checked by an investigator and comes up as citizen (which is an impossible role to get), the person being checked MUST be godfather. This defeats the purpose of making godfather immune to detection, as an investigator with even a tiny amount of experience will immediately realize it's the godfather.

There are a few ways this can be fixed:

1. I propose that, in your save, check the settings for "random/basic town/random any exclude citizen" and "godfather immune to detection". Make sure only one of them is on. So that EITHER citizen is impossible, and godfather is not immune to detection, OR basic/random town & random any do NOT exclude citizens and godfather IS immune to detection.

If no citizens are possible and godfather is not immune to detection, the godfather can claim being framed (an upgrade from being able to claim absolutely nothing when outed as an "impossible citizen". If citizens ARE possible and godfather IS immune to detection, then the possibility of citizens existing will support a godfather who claims citizen.

I know people think citizens are boring/weak, but I don't think clicking a button at night should be how you determine whether or not a role is worth playing. The fun of the game is in the use of your mind to figure out who is and is not on your side and how you can convince other people that you are right.

2. Another possibility would depend on an update, but- maybe the "immune to detection" setting would make godfather come up as a random role. Either random each time godfather is checked (thus checking him multiple times will reveal him) or it's randomly chosen (from town roles) at the start of the game (possibly even notifying the godfather so they know what to claim.

3. Make citizen a more interesting/desirable role to play (this really just complements my first suggestion by making it acceptable to NOT exclude citizens). I personally think that instead of getting one use of the vest, they should get a single vest which can be used repeatedly until it blocks an attack (I mean who the hell throws out a bulletproof vest that hasn't even taken a bullet yet?). Side note: I think this should also apply to the survivor's vest, but his max number of vests should be reduced.

Or just change the citizen's ability entirely. Personally, I don't mind playing the citizen and think it's fine as is, but most people seem to hate it for some reason.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter. Let the discussion commence!

[Slaol]

Thank you for bringing this up. I actually built my save to include the possibility for Citizens, as I found this situation to really ruin the game. As a Mafia it ruins the game since you lose immediately. As a Town it just makes it far less challenging, and I agree the fun of the game comes in figuring things out, not from clicking a button and winning.

I also agree with finding a way for Citizen to be more enjoyable. Saw a post on another thread suggesting maybe they can have a 'Walk around the Town' and randomly see who people are congregating with. This might be a little OP, but if it was restrained to only reveal the names above/bellow them (their neighbors) then I think it would be effectively limited. I don't see a need to change the Citizen either, but evidently enough people dread playing it. Do they forget that Mafia originated with 75+% of the people playing Citizen?

[JackWolfsong]

GF immune to detection can be a Veteran as well as far as I know.

[GriM-DeMoN]

Citizen/Sumthing sinister is

Veteran/Jester/Citizen
I also think it should be Survivor

[Unknown User]

Citizen/Sumthing sinister is

Veteran/Jester/Citizen
I also think it should be Survivor

Yea, all those are. Except Survivor, it comes up as loner (witch/survivor/amnesiac).

[Lysergic]

Problem with matching GF with Vet is that you would expect to die from checking a Vet. Jester is the only good GF fake-claim as of right now.

I agree that this should be changed. I don't like the idea of getting a random role result for GF's. However, having the Cit vest exist until it takes a bullet rather than being a one-night thing would make it more desirable, and would probably increase Cit play (and thus solve the problem).

[creedkingsx]

Problem with matching GF with Vet is that you would expect to die from checking a Vet. Jester is the only good GF fake-claim as of right now.

I agree that this should be changed. I don't like the idea of getting a random role result for GF's. However, having the Cit vest exist until it takes a bullet rather than being a one-night thing would make it more desirable, and would probably increase Cit play (and thus solve the problem).

I claim I don't go on Alert because it messes up the town. Usually works well enough. Jester just gets me killed by a jailor.